The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 9: August 2023 - July 2024

[Somebody]

New day, new contradiction. Harry says they were forced to leave UK. Their manifesto said clearly the “chose” to leave, by words and by meaning.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-hears-legal-battle-Home-Office-security.html

Note that he didn't say they were forced to leave but that they felt forced to leave. So, even in this statement he acknowledges that it was (just) their perception.

 

[FigTree]

I think the nub of it is that if he was international protective person, then basically he wouldn’t be paying for any security anywhere in the world.

Basically. No thought at all to the fact that the British tax payer picks up the tab along with tax payer of the relevant country.

Also all about his kids being a home here. If the kids continue to be brought up in the US then they are American. Parents do t often realise that their children are not the same as you. Just because you are Italian and now live in France. Your kids are French and how Italian they feel is entirely personal and differs. They have limited family connections and very few friends it seems. No reason at all for this children to have a connection with the UK.

 

[TLLK]

Basically. No thought at all to the fact that the British tax payer picks up the tab along with tax payer of the relevant country.

Also all about his kids being a home here. If the kids continue to be brought up in the US then they are American. Parents do t often realise that their children are not the same as you. Just because you are Italian and now live in France. Your kids are French and how Italian they feel is entirely personal and differs. They have limited family connections and very few friends it seems. No reason at all for this children to have a connection with the UK.

I especially agree with your second paragraph and how Archie and Lilibet are being raised as Americans. Today I was a guest or substitute teacher with a group of 5th graders (ten year olds). They were rehearsing their part for an interactive lesson on the American Revolution. And yes, one student was designated to be the Sussex children's ancestor, King George III and another was General Cornwallis etc. The other teacher we were partnered with mentioned that those roles while significant aren't the most popular ones as they're the "enemy." Maybe in the future, Harry can come in to play his ancestor for Archie and Lilibet's classmates.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I think the nub of it is that if he was international protective person, then basically he wouldn’t be paying for any security anywhere in the world.

As a lawyer who works in international law, Harry apparently believed that being an international protected person (IPP) means he is entitled to 24/7 police protection but that is not true.

Under the 1973 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons, a host country must prosecute any crime against an IPP to the fullest extent of the law. The country of origin can provide person protection but many diplomats, including British diplomats, do not have found-the-clock protection.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

There's absolutely no contradiction to what he's previously said. Have you even read the article?

Being "forced to leave" and choosing to leave isn't mutually exclusive. They chose to leave because they didn't feel secure – that's always been his stance, that it was a decision he was forced to make in order to protect his wife and children.

Harry and Meghan had security before they moved.

 

[MARG]

True, but once they ceased to be full time working royals, like the Duke of York and his family, the security would also cease.

 

[Hallo girl]

True, but once they ceased to be full time working royals, like the Duke of York and his family, the security would also cease.

But they obviously thought at that time that it would continue even when they moved abroad. They said it themselves in the original statement.

They never intended staying here as non working royals.

 

[Alison H]

The security goes with the job of being a full time working royal. This has been said umpteen times. If you leave your job, you do not expect to keep the company car or for your ex-employer to keep paying your private health insurance.

 

[Granada]

It just never seemingly ends. The use of lies or "misrepresentations" by The Sussex's to rewrite their own History to justify their actions.

They left of, AND by their own accord. Because of their plan, in their own words,..... to "step back" as full time working Royals. "WE HAVE CHOSEN to make a transition in carving out a progressive new role WITHIN this institution".

Well, we ALL know now, to The Sussex's utter shock and disbelief, their plan got shut down. Entirely. And here we are. Four years later. As they still grapple with the repercussions.
A favorite author of mine Fyodor Dostoevsky (Crime and Punishment....Brothers Karamazov) wrote something very applicable.....

" A man who lies to himself and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize the truth, either in himself or anyone else".

 

[Mbruno]

I especially agree with your second paragraph and how Archie and Lilibet are being raised as Americans. Today I was a guest or substitute teacher with a group of 5th graders (ten year olds). They were rehearsing their part for an interactive lesson on the American Revolution. And yes, one student was designated to be the Sussex children's ancestor, King George III and another was General Cornwallis etc. The other teacher we were partnered with mentioned that those roles while significant aren't the most popular ones as they're the "enemy." Maybe in the future, Harry can come in to play his ancestor for Archie and Lilibet's classmates.

That is curious. I wonder if, at a Canadian elementary school, the American Patriots are the ones who would be considered the "bad guys", or, most certainly, "the enemy".

It is also interesting to keep in mind that, at the time, officers in particular saw war from a very different perspective, as in Cornwallis for example dining with Washington after the Battle of Yorktown.

 

[Ghost]

It’s going to trial.

“Prince Harry has lost an attempt to strike out the Mail on Sunday’s defence to his libel claim against the paper over its reporting of his dispute with the Home Office over his security arrangements.”


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...w-out-mail-on-sunday-publishers-libel-defence

 

[TLLK]

That is curious. I wonder if, at a Canadian elementary school, the American Patriots are the ones who would be considered the "bad guys", or, most certainly, "the enemy".

It is also interesting to keep in mind that, at the time, officers in particular saw war from a very different perspective, as in Cornwallis for example dining with Washington after the Battle of Yorktown.

Mbruno-In 18th century Canadian history, I'd expect that Canadian Loyalists would have viewed the American Patriots as the enemy.

 

[Erin9]

It just never seemingly ends. The use of lies or "misrepresentations" by The Sussex's to rewrite their own History to justify their actions.

They left of, AND by their own accord. Because of their plan, in their own words,..... to "step back" as full time working Royals. "WE HAVE CHOSEN to make a transition in carving out a progressive new role WITHIN this institution".

Well, we ALL know now, to The Sussex's utter shock and disbelief, their plan got shut down. Entirely. And here we are. Four years later. As they still grapple with the repercussions.
A favorite author of mine Fyodor Dostoevsky (Crime and Punishment....Brothers Karamazov) wrote something very applicable.....

" A man who lies to himself and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize the truth, either in himself or anyone else".

Very well said. There really is no end to this. I can only imagine what a book would look like if it listed out every lie, contradiction, embellishment and insinuation they’ve made over the last 4 years that doesn’t fit with what happened and/or their own original telling of events. Or even re- telling.

It’s been 4 years, and here we are with more contradictions, a lawsuit, and another book they (with no plausible deniability imo) participated in.

 

[Toledo]

The security goes with the job of being a full time working royal. This has been said umpteen times. If you leave your job, you do not expect to keep the company car or for your ex-employer to keep paying your private health insurance.

I suspect Harry, but not Meghan, has been experiencing what is called 'Buyer's Remorse'*since he decided to step down royal duties and follow the business and influencer path his wife set for them as the goal for the couple.


Buyer's remorse is the sense of regret after having made a purchase...is thought to stem from post-decision dissonance, that arises when a person must make a difficult decision, such as a heavily invested purchase between two similarly appealing alternatives.

Factors that affect buyer's remorse may include resources invested, the involvement of the purchaser, whether the purchase is compatible with the purchaser's goals, feelings encountered post-purchase that include regret...

The Queen gave them one year to experiment living abroad and the option to return to royal life, and the duties and obligations of the job, or to stay independent. They not only choose the later but the rush to do a get rich scheme, be part of the Hollywood A-List and all with using the royal title to open doors in the USA just backfired. Now, with these demands to get UK security as if he was a diplomat of sorts, he is crashing down with the reality that he quit the only job he had to complaint about and now he misses it.

Sorry Harry, as the expression goes, you made your bed, so sleep on it. The UK taxpayers can't add to the budget security for four extra people living overseas and bad-mouthing parents and home country. What would happen when the kids are teens and young adults accustomed to the Hollywood lifestyle of starting trouble, getting their ways, TMZ scandals, etc. Are the UK taxpayers going to foot the bill past the age of 18 on two California celebrity children?

His lawyers need to make him accept the reality there is no need, no way, the UK can extend payments to cover private security on every event they go to in the USA or UK. Harry not only quit the only job he had to complaint about and now he misses it, but he also burned down that bridge of trust with his family and the UK public.

The World is a big place and with their millions they can live anywhere. But the government is not responsible to provide them security escorts and chauffeuring when they don't even do anything for his country.

My opinion would be different if he, at least, went around those events and talked about the UK, the history of the country, the history of the family that has ruled the land since William the Conqueror for almost one-thousand years now. But he seems not to have any sense of family history to talk about, only to cry when he doesn't get his way to have taxpayers pay for bodyguards to events to talk about himself, not even defending the institution of the monarchy as an alternative government.

Sorry, Harry, you made your bed, so sleep on it.

 

[changemysoul]

I could see why Harry is citing the different treatment. Andrew didn’t get his security and honors officially removed until a year after he stepped down. And unlike Andrew (in my opinion) who only has people who dislike like him and want him to hide, Harry & Meghan have had actual threats made to him and about their children. No matter what happens, I’m glad it’s all on record that he fought it so if something should happen, we can avoid the ‘oh if only he had royal protection’ and fake concern.

Also glad that the summary judgement got thrown out and they’ll go to trail. The Mail on Sunday went from presenting what was printed as fact and now it’s an ‘honest’ opinion when pressed.

 

[shady lady]

It just never seemingly ends. The use of lies or "misrepresentations" by The Sussex's to rewrite their own History to justify their actions.

They left of, AND by their own accord. Because of their plan, in their own words,..... to "step back" as full time working Royals. "WE HAVE CHOSEN to make a transition in carving out a progressive new role WITHIN this institution".

Well, we ALL know now, to The Sussex's utter shock and disbelief, their plan got shut down. Entirely. And here we are. Four years later. As they still grapple with the repercussions.
A favorite author of mine Fyodor Dostoevsky (Crime and Punishment....Brothers Karamazov) wrote something very applicable.....

" A man who lies to himself and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize the truth, either in himself or anyone else".

Great post. Mr D was spot on there.

Perhaps someone should make a bumper sticker - "Honk if you haven't been sued by Prince Harry."

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I could see why Harry is citing the different treatment. Andrew didn’t get his security and honors officially removed until a year after he stepped down. And unlike Andrew (in my opinion) who only has people who dislike like him and want him to hide, Harry & Meghan have had actual threats made to him and about their children. No matter what happens, I’m glad it’s all on record that he fought it so if something should happen, we can avoid the ‘oh if only he had royal protection’ and fake concern.

Also glad that the summary judgement got thrown out and they’ll go to trail. The Mail on Sunday went from presenting what was printed as fact and now it’s an ‘honest’ opinion when pressed.

Yes, but at the end of the day, Andrew doesn’t have security and he lives in the U.K, in spite of his poor decisions, he largely shuts up. No one of late has made any threats to their children, a young student came to Windsor with a crossbow to kill the late Queen luckily that person was caught, in comparison barely anyone sees the Sussex children as they are hardly shown by their parents to the wider public so what danger could they face? In any case, the British government cannot and will not pay the security costs of an out of work royal who does not live here. They didn’t think their plans through properly, if they did, Harry wouldn’t be suing the government over security. Plus they were given time to think over things

 

[Hallo girl]

I could see why Harry is citing the different treatment. Andrew didn’t get his security and honors officially removed until a year after he stepped down. And unlike Andrew (in my opinion) who only has people who dislike like him and want him to hide, Harry & Meghan have had actual threats made to him and about their children. No matter what happens, I’m glad it’s all on record that he fought it so if something should happen, we can avoid the ‘oh if only he had royal protection’ and fake concern.

Also glad that the summary judgement got thrown out and they’ll go to trail. The Mail on Sunday went from presenting what was printed as fact and now it’s an ‘honest’ opinion when pressed.

I thought Harry wanted a summary judgement.

 

[TLLK]

I thought Harry wanted a summary judgement.

I was also under the impression that it was Harry who wanted the summary judgment.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

HRH The Duke of Sussex is smarter than I expected.

If he wins the right to pay British law enforcement for protection (which I doubt will happen), then he get to come to Great Britain and do his own thing without crossing paths with his family. If he loses, he can shrug his shoulders and say "Hey, I tried my best to protect my family and show my children their heritage, but they don't care enough about protecting us, so goodbye to Great Britain forever."

He either gets his protection or his excuse to burn the bridge with his family across the pond permanently.

 

[yukari]

Off course, because it's always everyone else's fault. Although I don't think wasting his money to pay lawyers for unnecessary lawsuits as "smart". But that's just me, since maybe if those lawsuits can stroke his ego then it wouldn't be "unnecessary" for him.

And another plot twist: Harry has been blaming Edward Young for losing his RPO, while the man actually negotiated with RAVEC for him to keep his security.

Late Queen wanted Prince Harry’s security to continue, letter reveals

(...)

Sir Edward Young wrote to Sir Mark Sedwill, the then Cabinet Secretary, after*the Sandringham summit of January 2020*to explain what had been decided by the late Queen and her grandson.

The letter, included in newly published court documents, reveals how Sir Edward – writing on behalf of the Palace in his role*as the late Queen’s private secretary*– made the case for the Sussexes’ continued “effective security” as they left the working Royal family.

(...)

My sympathy for whoever worked/have worked for Harry. It seems to be a very thankless job.

 

[Alisa]

HRH The Duke of Sussex is smarter than I expected.

If he wins the right to pay British law enforcement for protection (which I doubt will happen), then he get to come to Great Britain and do his own thing without crossing paths with his family. If he loses, he can shrug his shoulders and say "Hey, I tried my best to protect my family and show my children their heritage, but they don't care enough about protecting us, so goodbye to Great Britain forever."

He either gets his protection or his excuse to burn the bridge with his family across the pond permanently.

In my opinion, the best thing for him is to be able to pay for security when he and his family comes to the UK.
I very much doubt the couple would be able to trust any security provided by the royal house.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

HRH The Duke of Sussex is smarter than I expected.

If he wins the right to pay British law enforcement for protection (which I doubt will happen), then he get to come to Great Britain and do his own thing without crossing paths with his family. If he loses, he can shrug his shoulders and say "Hey, I tried my best to protect my family and show my children their heritage, but they don't care enough about protecting us, so goodbye to Great Britain forever."

He either gets his protection or his excuse to burn the bridge with his family across the pond permanently.

This doesn’t make any sense. Nobody in the U.K, no matter how self-important or wealthy they are get to pay for government security services. As far as his appearances in the U.K, for all the unnecessary attention he’s brought for himself no one has pelted tomatoes at him or assaulted him. He’s allowed to bring security like anyone with money can. The protection is not something to be used as a bargaining chip for relations with his family. He was invited to come by the late QEII a few times, but didn’t do so with the children so tying the children into the argument doesn’t hold. He already burnt bridges with his actions so the security won’t help anything.

 

[yukari]

It’s going to trial.

“Prince Harry has lost an attempt to strike out the Mail on Sunday’s defence to his libel claim against the paper over its reporting of his dispute with the Home Office over his security arrangements.”


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...w-out-mail-on-sunday-publishers-libel-defence

The full judgment if anyone is interested to read:

https://www.judiciary.uk/judgments/the-duke-of-sussex-v-associated-newspapers-limited-3/

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Yes, but at the end of the day, Andrew doesn’t have security and he lives in the U.K, in spite of his poor decisions, he largely shuts up. No one of late has made any threats to their children, the late Queen actually had someone (a young student) jump the wall at Windsor with a crossbow to kill her, in comparison barely anyone sees the Sussex children as they are hardly shown by their parents to the wider public so what danger could they face? In any case, the British government cannot and will not pay the security costs of an out of work royal who does not live here. They didn’t think their plans through properly, if they did, Harry wouldn’t be suing the government over security

And that is the bottom line. They didn’t think their plans through properly, released their manifesto on the “Sussex Royal” website, HLM said no to Half in/half out and it has all blown up in their faces. If they really can’t see that and accept it after four years…..
The money, time, and energy Harry is spending on suing everyone seems like just anger and desperation IMHO.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

In my opinion, the best thing for him is to be able to pay for security when he and his family comes to the UK.
I very much doubt the couple would be able to trust any security provided by the royal house.

But this would be a rent-a-cop scenario nobody wants.
He can bring his own security but he has to live with the fact that they won't be armed or have access to police or intelligence networks.

 

[Ghost]

So it seems that at the time Sir Edward Young, on behalf of The Queen, has written to the cabinet pleading for their security to be maintained:

https://archive.ph/2023.12.08-20574...ow-out-mail-on-sunday-libel-defence-ggcxf6htg

 

[Hallo girl]

In my opinion, the best thing for him is to be able to pay for security when he and his family comes to the UK.
I very much doubt the couple would be able to trust any security provided by the royal house.

The Royal house as you put it do not provide security it is the Metropolitan police , royal protection team.
He has already been told there will be a bespoke package provided when he comes here.

 

[Hallo girl]

But this would be a rent-a-cop scenario nobody wants.
He can bring his own security but he has to live with the fact that they won't be armed or have access to police or intelligence networks.

If there was intelligence , it would be made available if deemed necessary. Our UK members will be aware of a case recently concerning a tv presenter , where the police had received intelligence and acted on it. So it does work.
Nobody wants anything to happen to Harry or his family,

 

[Alison H]

The police are a public service. You can't pay for them. You can't go into a National Health Service hospital, whip out your credit card and expect to see a doctor immediately, rather than waiting your turn. You can't go into a state school and pay for your child to be given private tuition by the teachers. You can't get on a bus and pay for it to make a diversion to your home because you don't want to walk from the bus stop. In the same way, you can't pay for personal protection by the police. Everyone gets this, apart from harry!