The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 9: August 2023 - July 2024

[Hallo girl]

Well, to be fair, Memorial Day was supposed to be a Remembrance Day and Veterans Day , which honors living veterans , coincides with the Armistice Day ( now Remembrance Day in the UK).

But, as you said, Memorial Day now ended up being just another holiday which coincidentally marks the unofficial beginning of the summer season. Veterans Day ( i,e., Armistice Day), on the other hand, is relatively ignored, which goes back to my point that Harry and Meghan are staging those events around November “11 for the British media mostly.

That is why I asked about the Poppies.

 

[LauraS3514]

Well, to be fair, Memorial Day was supposed to be a Remembrance Day and Veterans Day , which honors living veterans , coincides with the Armistice Day ( now Remembrance Day in the UK).

But, as you said, Memorial Day now ended up being just another holiday which coincidentally marks the unofficial beginning of the summer season. Veterans Day ( i,e., Armistice Day), on the other hand, is relatively ignored, which goes back to my point that Harry and Meghan are staging those events around November “11 for the British media mostly.[/QUOTE

Officially, the United States has three holidays commemorating those who have served in our military forces. Veteran's Day, November 11, honors ALL who have ever served. Memorial Day, the fourth Monday in May, honors those who were killed in the line of duty. The third one, Armed Forces Day, is the third Saturday in May and is rarely recognized by anyone outside the military.

Unfortunately, instead of honoring those who have served, most people are more concerned with whether or not they get the day off of work or if there are any good sales at the mall.

 

[changemysoul]

I do not disaggree, but those types of events around Remembrance Day (Veterans Day in the US) are something that British royals do as part of their official role in the United Kingdom, rather than in a personal capacity. It is impossible to dissociate then their participation in such events from their royal status.

When Harry and Meghan do it in the United States on their own, it looks like they want to project an image of still keeping a royal status that they actually no longer have and it feeds into the narrative of a "parallel court" as also seen in the past with the Duke and Duchess of Windsor.

I do not question that military families may benefit from such visits by drawing media attention to certain charities or causes, but I personally don't think officers of the United States should give Harry and Meghan a platform to play "pretend Prince/Princess".

It is possible to dissociate their participation in events from their royal status. It isn't hard to do and most people who aren't royal watchers, can do it without much trouble.

And you shouldn't worry because officers of the US weren't giving the Sussex's a platform to play pretend. They invited Meghan, who during her pre-royal days spent time around the holidays going on an USO tour to support the troops. They also invited Harry, who has platform and has been vocal about supporting vets, did some Apache training in the US, who has an international supporting event dedicated to vets and service people that US vets has attended since the games since it's inception. Who also has close ties with American vets (as seen in the Netflix doc, he went to Hawaii with Gab, a US vet), an event that had Nato Joint Force Commander General Guglielmo Miglietta bring a delegation of 1100 personal of military family members and students join him for the games. A person who has extremely high-profile already and can bring attention to the services and family that are being attended too. As well as having served himself, married to American citizen and have two kids are American citizens.

So, no playing pretend but inviting a person who is apart of the community, who has worked on behalf of the community to again, be apart and shine a light on the community. It seems like US officers have no issue dissociating anything.

It makes complete sense for Harry and Meghan to do/attend these types of things. More than a lot of people who do (if a reason is even needed)

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[.....]

 

[Ista]

Several posts have been deleted or edited as they were off topic for the thread. Let's move on from the topic of poppies.

 

[MARG]

I think Harry, being an ex-serviceman, misses the close contact and camaraderie found on occasions like this and I believe the military PTB are firmly in the "any publicity is good publicity" and Harry does have more credibility the the celebrity photo op.

I cannot understand how it is that every halfway decent thing he has done has resulted in a right royal merciless drubbing with howls of 'tying to one up his brother/father'. To the best of my knowledge there are not hotlines to his father or brother and the Court Circular is still as useless and out of date as it has always been.

 

[Ghost]

The activities of the RF are known in advance from various sources, the court circular being probably the last on the list.
What someone sees as “decent” someone else may see in a different perspective. That’s one of the things the army of staff the RF has have to consider: how does it look from a different perspective? And that might be one of the things that frustrated Harry while in the RF - the “negativity” which is in fact the wisdom to take into account unpleasant consequences.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think Harry, being an ex-serviceman, misses the close contact and camaraderie found on occasions like this and I believe the military PTB are firmly in the "any publicity is good publicity" and Harry does have more credibility the the celebrity photo op.

I cannot understand how it is that every halfway decent thing he has done has resulted in a right royal merciless drubbing with howls of 'tying to one up his brother/father'. To the best of my knowledge there are not hotlines to his father or brother and the Court Circular is still as useless and out of date as it has always been.

The Court Circular is not useless. It is the official record of what the BRF have done. It is the only official record of what activities the royals do and is published in a number of media outlets including the online monarchy page as well as in The Times. It is published in The Times every day other than Sunday but if there is an engagement on a Saturday or a Sunday it is published on the Monday.

It is NOT a resource to find out what they are planning to do as it doesn't say what is upcoming but what has already happened.

The activities of the RF are known in advance from various sources, the court circular being probably the last on the list.

Of course it would be last on the list if you want to know in advance as the CC doesn't record what is upcoming at all. It records what has happened and only what has happened.

Somewhere in the 60s it stopped recording both past and future events. Now it only records past events.

 

[Ghost]

Of course it would be last on the list if you want to know in advance as the CC doesn't record what is upcoming at all. It records what has happened and only what has happened.

Somewhere in the 60s it stopped recording both past and future events. Now it only records past events.

Thank you, I didn’t know that! (I never look it up)

 

[Iluvbertie]

Thank you, I didn’t know that! (I never look it up)

The CC used to record all sorts of things:

past engagements
future engagements
social events e.g. which peeresses were having a 'coming out ball' for their daughter/s
changing addresses e.g. if a society person was going overseas for a period of time and whether their mail would be forwarded or if they moved the new address
births, deaths, engagements and marriages within the upper classes
movements of the diplomatic corps e.g. if an ambassador was going to be out of the country for a few days or more as well as what national events were being celebrated by an embassy/high commission that might or might not involve a member of the BRF

The recording of past events, which is now all the CC does, was often the smallest part of an entry.

The CC also didn't record overseas engagements until either 1997 or somewhere between 1986 and 1996 (the years I can't access due to The Times not archiving those years, local places in Australia that have now digitised The Times but didn't think anyone would be interested in the CC so didn't digitise that and the start of the online CC via the British monarch website).

As for Future Engagements - the most senior royals are loathe to announce to far in advance any upcoming events by any means. Charles used to try to do public engagements about two weeks in advance as PoW but as King that isn't happening while Anne has 'out of palace' engagements on the British monarch website months in advance.

I did enquire about 'why' the late Queen or Charles didn't publish their upcoming events further in advance and was told 'security'. William has always been the same - embargoing events until a day or so before the engagement.

 

[Durham]

It is possible to dissociate their participation in events from their royal status. It isn't hard to do and most people who aren't royal watchers, can do it without much trouble.

So, no playing pretend but inviting a person who is apart of the community, who has worked on behalf of the community to again, be apart and shine a light on the community. It seems like US officers have no issue dissociating anything.


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[.....]

Their participation in this event is precisely because Harry Windsor used to be a person of status in the UK’s rf.

I get that some Americans seem drawn to this man even if that strikes a lot of us in the UK as unfathomable but let’s not pretend that interest in him is for any other reason than the family he was born into.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I agree that choosing to visit the bases and meeting the families is a better choice than going to the cemeteries or the U.S.S. Arizona memorial. Partly because in the United States, November 11 is not our day to remember those died serving their country. It is the day to honor all living veterans. So meeting with active service members who are the future veterans makes more sense to me.

Yes, this is an important distinction : Veterans Day in the US honors those who serve or have served in any branch of the US military and is celebrated November 11. It was originally called Armistice Day beginning in 1938 on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month - also began to honor WWI veterans but was changed in 1954 to honor all veterans.

Memorial Day is celebrated the last Monday in May and honors all veterans who have died in military service in the US.

LOTS of people understandably confuse the two days - it took me forever to remember the differences

 

[changemysoul]

Their participation in this event is precisely because Harry Windsor used to be a person of status in the UK’s rf.

I get that some Americans seem drawn to this man even if that strikes a lot of us in the UK as unfathomable but let’s not pretend that interest in him is for any other reason than the family he was born into.

I can say we can agree to disagree on the matter. Regarding your first line, neither one of us know the truth. Unless you have personal connections with the people who asked them to be at the event and you know something we don't know. If that's the case, then there is nothing I can say.

I'd say it's more realistic that it leans to what I've already pointed many times in this thread about his service, platform and connection so I won't say it again.

And I'd say the heavy interest in him, isn't so much the family he was born into but the woman that gave birth to him. If just being a member of the family guarantee high level interest, there would be more interest in all of the members across the board but that's not the case. If he was born into the family but had been born to the York's, Princess Royale or the Edinburgh's, I doubt interest wouldn't be as high.


But two things can be valid, he could've been invited because he is a member of the RF and he could've been invited because he's an decorated vet, married to American woman, lives in the country and has an event that is geared towards a community that he's worked with outside of the games as well. I lean more towards the latter and you lean more towards the former.

 

[Leopoldine]

No, no one wears poppies; Americans who spot a poppy (like on Canadian NHL coaches) say "what are those red circles...?" and the actual Memorial Day at the end of May is usually spent doing something fun or going to the beach, and is considered "the start of summer", not "Remembrance Day".

Very different ethos. Also please remember that "In Flanders Fields" was written by a Commonwealth poet and the US only joined the war in 1917.

Memorial Day in my neighborhood might involve recreational activities later in the day, but the important event is our ceremony at a local park, where the war dead are each commemorated with a tree and a plaque under the tree for each of the fallen. A good many of the names on the plaques belong to former classmates of my father and his brothers.


Edit -- Moderating team, I see how my post may be straying from the Harry/Meghan subject, sorry, move or delete as you see fit.

Their participation in this event is precisely because Harry Windsor used to be a person of status in the UK’s rf.

I get that some Americans seem drawn to this man even if that strikes a lot of us in the UK as unfathomable but let’s not pretend that interest in him is for any other reason than the family he was born into.

ChangeMySoul has mentioned that military officers invited H and M to the event.

What do the grunts think about these cossetted designer-clad millionaires?

 

[Curryong]

ChangeMySoul has mentioned that military officers invited H and M to the event.

What do the grunts think about these cossetted designer-clad millionaires?

Harry has met hundreds of ordinary soldiers in his time, in endeavours like Walking With The Wounded, royal engagements and at the Invictus Games, where he has met various members of different nations’ teams and is very much liked by many vet competitors.

He and Meghan met ordinary soldiers in the US in 2021 when they made a similar visit and sat and had lunch with many soldiers and their husbands/wives. There were no protests then and there have been none from members of the Armed Forces who met with them on the engagement the other day either.

 

[Asteria12]

The publicity satisfies the military PR as much as it does the Sussex's, so its a win-win for them.

 

[Mbruno]

But two things can be valid, he could've been invited because he is a member of the RF and he could've been invited because he's an decorated vet, married to American woman, lives in the country and has an event that is geared towards a community that he's worked with outside of the games as well. I lean more towards the latter and you lean more towards the former.

Harry has an operational service medal for Afghanistan. I appreciate his service, but I am not sure that puts him in the class of "decorated vets" who would merit any special treatment. And he is not even a US veteran. From a pure military point of view, I don't see any reason that would justify an invitation, especially when there are many vets just like him (or more decorated than he is).

So I lean on the explanation that he gets those invitations because he is a prince and a celebrity, and it is good PR for the military.

By the way, Meghan has been criticized by US veterans for wearing a poppy on Armistice Day, following British custom, when poppies, if they are worn at all in the US, should be worn instead on Memorial Day per American custom. That reinforces my perception that Meghan and Harry do these events for the British media, to be visible in a role people in the UK would expect British royals to play on Remembrance Day. In the past, they visited a cemetery on Armistice Day in the US, which is also at odds with American custom, but compatible with British custom.

 

[Maryrose]

Meghan most likely wore a poppy to honor the servicemen of her Harry's countrymen/women since that is the custom while honoring those in the US too.

 

[TLLK]

Harry has an operational service medal for Afghanistan. I appreciate his service, but I am not sure that puts him in the class of "decorated vets" who would merit any special treatment. And he is not even a US veteran. From a pure military point of view, I don't see any reason that would justify an invitation, especially when there are many vets just like him (or more decorated than he is).

So I lean on the explanation that he gets those invitations because he is a prince and a celebrity, and it is good PR for the military.

By the way, Meghan has been criticized by US veterans for wearing a poppy on Armistice Day, following British custom, when poppies, if they are worn at all in the US, should be worn instead on Memorial Day per American custom. That reinforces my perception that Meghan and Harry do these events for the British media, to be visible in a role people in the UK would expect British royals to play on Remembrance Day. In the past, they visited a cemetery on Armistice Day in the US, which is also at odds with American custom, but compatible with British custom.

I have to agree with you especially in regards to this statement. Unfortunately for the Camp Pendelton Marine Corps Base, they've been in need of some positive PR. In early August 2023, a junior marine was arrested for human trafficking involving a 12 year old girl. So I can understand why the Camp's administration would be open to inviting a celebrity/ prince who happens to be a veteran of his nation's armed forces and giving the base some positive PR.



IMO Harry appears to be eager to establish an association with the US Naval and Marine bases in San Diego. He aired the "Heart of Invictus" documentary in San Diego and invited veterans to the screening. These make up one of the larger military installations on the California coast whereas the ones closer to Montecito are smaller ones. And with a larger airport in San Diego, that is an option rather than driving down Montecito.


As for the poppy wearing, I doubt that any American veterans would take issue with Harry wearing one as it is the custom in the UK and many Commonwealth nations. As for Meghan, yes as an American she should be wearing one in May, but she is married to a British prince.

 

[Mbruno]

I have to agree with you especially in regards to this statement. Unfortunately for the Camp Pendelton Marine Corps Base, they've been in need of some positive PR. In early August 2023, a junior marine was arrested for human trafficking involving a 12 year old girl. So I can understand why the Camp's administration would be open to inviting a celebrity/ prince who happens to be a veteran of his nation's armed forces and giving the base some positive PR.



IMO Harry appears to be eager to establish an association with the US Naval and Marine bases in San Diego. He aired the "Heart of Invictus" documentary in San Diego and invited veterans to the screening. These make up one of the larger military installations on the California coast whereas the ones closer to Montecito are smaller ones. And with a larger airport in San Diego, that is an option rather than driving down Montecito.


As for the poppy wearing, I doubt that any American veterans would take issue with Harry wearing one as it is the custom in the UK and many Commonwealth nations. As for Meghan, yes as an American she should be wearing one in May, but she is married to a British prince.

According to the British tabloids (I think it was the Sunday Express), the issue of the poppy was raised by US veterans with respect to Meghan only, not Harry.

 

[Maryrose]

Personally I find it a bit petty if anyone is taking issue with her wearing a poppy. Like its been stated above she is married to a British citizen who has served and her children likely have dual citizenship. What is the harm. It's just showing respect to all.

 

[Alison H]

Given that the British and American armed forces were fighting side by side at the time of the Armistice, and did so again in the Second World War, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with Meghan wearing a poppy.

 

[changemysoul]

Harry has an operational service medal for Afghanistan. I appreciate his service, but I am not sure that puts him in the class of "decorated vets" who would merit any special treatment. And he is not even a US veteran. From a pure military point of view, I don't see any reason that would justify an invitation, especially when there are many vets just like him (or more decorated than he is).

So I lean on the explanation that he gets those invitations because he is a prince and a celebrity, and it is good PR for the military.

By the way, Meghan has been criticized by US veterans for wearing a poppy on Armistice Day, following British custom, when poppies, if they are worn at all in the US, should be worn instead on Memorial Day per American custom. That reinforces my perception that Meghan and Harry do these events for the British media, to be visible in a role people in the UK would expect British royals to play on Remembrance Day. In the past, they visited a cemetery on Armistice Day in the US, which is also at odds with American custom, but compatible with British custom.

Like I said, we talk away with two views on the matter and both of them could be true. You lean towards it's him just being a member of the royal family. I lean towards his work as a veteran internationally.


I also checked online about this. I found an Daily Express article that quotes a Newsweek article. In the Daily Express article, they claimed veterans complained but the only thing written was a commenter and user said this and that. None, actually claiming to be veterans, it seems more like the Daily Express took comments from people who have an issue with Meghan and said veterans said it, without any proof of actual said veterans.

Then I checked out the NewsWeek article that they got their information from and even there, they didn't speak to any actual veterans or site veterans but random twitter users that complained. It was also failed to mention that in the same article, an X user who actually did identify herself as a wife of vet said she didn't mind that Meghan wore one as she is the husband of a vet.

So, it could be utterly true that some vets are upset with Meghan wearing a poppy but it doesn't seem as if any actual veterans have come forward and said this.

All of that being said, some people will just have to get over her wearing it and as the people who invited her no problem and the people she interacted with have no problem, it's a shrug of the shoulders.

 

[TLLK]

Personally I find it a bit petty if anyone is taking issue with her wearing a poppy. Like its been stated above she is married to a British citizen who has served and her children likely have dual citizenship. What is the harm. It's just showing respect to all.

Honestly I believe the criticism is because there is confusion in the U.S. about the two holidays and veterans have been trying to educate the public about the significance of each one. It's aimed at Meghan as she's an American.


Personally, I don't have an issue with her wearing one in November though.

 

[B__ll]

Unfortunately, it seems someone will always decide to take offence. It seems she is trying to be cognizant of both parties and trying to pay respect to both shouldnt cause any harm.

 

[MissByrd]

Poppies in the US

Honestly I believe the criticism is because there is confusion in the U.S. about the two holidays and veterans have been trying to educate the public about the significance of each one. It's aimed at Meghan as she's an American.


Personally, I don't have an issue with her wearing one in November though.

I was just at The Supermarket for a couple of items. The local American Legion vets were handing out poppies to everyone there. They said that they hand them out for both Memorial Day and Veterans Day and have for years.
There was also an elderly vet, who was going into the store, who recited “In Flanders Fields”.

 

[Asteria12]

This discussion perfectly illustrates the problem with the Sussex brand, people are talking about poppies not programs.

 

[Durham]

And I'd say the heavy interest in him, isn't so much the family he was born into but the woman that gave birth to him. If just being a member of the family guarantee high level interest, there would be more interest in all of the members across the board but that's not the case. If he was born into the family but had been born to the York's, Princess Royale or the Edinburgh's, I doubt interest wouldn't be as high.


But two things can be valid, he could've been invited because he is a member of the RF and he could've been invited because he's an decorated vet, married to American woman, lives in the country and has an event that is geared towards a community that he's worked with outside of the games as well. I lean more towards the latter and you lean more towards the former.

Why would anyone have been interested in any of her children if their father had not been the future king? The interest in her was because she was, or had once been, destined to be the future queen. It logically follows that interest in her children is because of the family they were born into. Otherwise they would have been the sons of an earl's daughter & a private individual.

Princess Margaret had similar levels of interest because she like Harry was the younger child of the monarch/heir. Why would the children of younger siblings have the same amount of interest to the public?

His attendance attracts interest from some sections of US society. That’s why they get invited (or volunteer themselves). It’s why they get introduced with their full British titles. He's a novelty in the US. Same as the Duke of Windsor was.

 

[TLLK]

I was just at The Supermarket for a couple of items. The local American Legion vets were handing out poppies to everyone there. They said that they hand them out for both Memorial Day and Veterans Day and have for years.
There was also an elderly vet, who was going into the store, who recited “In Flanders Fields”.

How lovely to find that American Legion stand MissByrd. I wish that I could find one here in Southern California for either Veterans Day or Memorial Day!

 

[HenRach Dominion]

This discussion perfectly illustrates the problem with the Sussex brand, people are talking about poppies not programs.

TRH The Sussexes cannot control what the media or its consumers focus on. We've seen in both articles from People and the Daily Mail that TRH The Sussexes were supporting military charities involving bereaved children and military fitness. If people want to talk about the appropriateness of wearing poppies, then that's not a failure of the Sussex brand- those people just don't care about what they're advocating for, and never will regardless of what TRH The Sussexes do.

It is true that these events bring mutually good press to both the military bases and TRH The Sussexes, but it would be the same for any celebrity doing the same thing (and many have). TRH The Sussexes, however, get criticized harder than many celebrities with the same philanthropic interests.

The annoyance, in my humble opinion, is due to the fact that in spite of publicly and bitterly leaving the BRF nearly four years ago, TRH The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are still treated like they're still working members: they still interact with high-ranking political and military figures, they still garner a higher prestige than other celebrities of similar caliber, and many fear that their "rival court" might cause trouble for the BRF in the long run.

 

[lookupdown]

This discussion perfectly illustrates the problem with the Sussex brand, people are talking about poppies not programs.

I see it as the British tabloids trying to bring fault to the Sussexes, which this ridiculous issue is reported in. As a child, I remember receiving and wearing poppies around Memorial and Veterans Day and I am an American. I doubt many vets would have an issue with it. They have more pressing problems to deal with.