Netflix Docu-Series of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex (2022)

[suztav]

Harry never "trashed" his grandmother.

Even the quoted CNN article highlighted that while the couple were critical of the Queen's aides they had the highest respect for the Queen.

JMHO but this is throwing Granny under the bus and making her sound cold and distant.

 

[Denville]

Harry never "trashed" his grandmother.
Even the quoted CNN article highlighted that while the couple were critical of the Queen's aides they had the highest respect for the Queen.

that is simply not the case. Harry was saying that he was looking after his grandmother which he clearly was not, the implicaton being that she was a daffy old girl who needed looking after her, and in saying that she was just letting Charles and William go on attacking him is an attack on her. Not to mention the claim that the Commonwealth, which was something the queen cared deeply about and worked on, was Empire Mark 2, is another attack, insinuating that her work trying to work for the Commonwealth union to help the people of the former empire, was just the Empire under another name.

 

[Alisa]

Unfortunately their actions have not matched their words for the last three years.

On the contrary, that has been the one consistent thing. They have been verbally critical of the institution (note not the Queen), William, Catherine, and Charles but never have they spoken a bad word against the Queen.

 

[Denville]

Who is at the head of the institution? THe queen. Harry did initially like his mother and Fergie, claim that he was just crtiicisng the couriters or the institution of the RF, but since then he has moved on to more direct attacks. He referred to genetic pain in child rearing in the RF, which implicates the queen. He attacked the Commonwealth which was very much the queen's baby, and compared it to the Empire, when the Empire has been gone for 100 years and has been replaced by the C'weatlh which is very different, partly owing ot the queen's work for it.

 

[Erin9]

On the contrary, that has been the one consistent thing. They have been verbally critical of the institution (note not the Queen), William, Catherine, and Charles but never have they spoken a bad word against the Queen.

The Queen was the CEO of the institution. You criticize it, you criticize her imo.

And I think he just threw her under the bus talking about the Sandringham Summit. Directly.

 

[HRHHermione]

I fail to see how this helped them. My over all impression is: what a mistake. They will be criticized over a lot of this and deservedly so imo. And that will include the US, where the criticism has gotten steadily louder.

There is no universe I see where this was helpful to them. As we've discussed here already, this documentary confirmed so many negative stories many of us had written off as untrue. I keep thinking of more as I process it.

Stuff like being bothered by the size of Nottingham Cottage and feeling like it was very humble. Plus, there's a US reality star (Bethenny Frankel) who said she received a phone call from an A list powerful woman celebrity who told her to back off the couple because they couldn't even stand up where they were living. Now that we know they frequently complained about that and they had Oprah to tea, that story lines up.



The idea that they really believed Meghan had the power to change the political destiny of Commonwealth countries and bring them closer to the crown.



The fact that Harry believed she was better at the job than other royals and they were jealous of her.

So many little grubby and unattractive tabloid stories confirmed. Oh, and remember how in The Cut, she claimed her wedding was celebrated like Mandela's release from prison and that was laughed at? In this one, she claims a British pilot thanked her for her service to the country and that Beyonce told her she was a generational cursebreaker (or similar, I didn't quote it directly.) The instinct to self-aggrandize isn't a rumor anymore- it's been confirmed by multiple people.

I'll be wrapping my head around this one for weeks.

 

[TLLK]

On the contrary, that has been the one consistent thing. They have been verbally critical of the institution (note not the Queen), William, Catherine, and Charles but never have they spoken a bad word against the Queen.

Alisa-I've only mentioned that their actions have not matched their words. Please reread my post.

The Sussexes' actions have been consistently the opposite of their words for the past three years.

 

[suztav]

The Queen was the CEO of the institution. You criticize it, you criticize her imo.

And I think he just threw her under the bus talking about the Sandringham Summit. Directly.

Exactly. If you criticize the institution you are criticizing the Queen.

 

[Denville]

The Queen was the CEO of the institution. You criticize it, you criticize her imo.

And I think he just threw her under the bus talking about the Sandringham Summit. Directly.

very much so. He has moved on to direct overt attacks on his father, his brother and his grandmother. Im sure there was anger at the Sandringham meeting, but I very much doubt that William shouting if he did so, was really scaring Harry. ANd Harry directly attacked his brother father and grandma in what he's said about the Summit. Also, ridiculous to say that Meghan was excluded when she had gone back to Canada after a couple of days in the UK.

 

[TLLK]

The Queen was the CEO of the institution. You criticize it, you criticize her imo.

And I think he just threw her under the bus talking about the Sandringham Summit. Directly.

Absolutely true. Harry has been incredibly critical of his late grandmother (the monarch) by his actions as she is the head of the institution. Very sadly, he appears to have harbored feelings of deep resentment.
I hope that one day he can find some peace.

 

[TLLK]

Am I the only one convinced they wrote the script for these last two episodes by reading TRF and seeing what so-called rumors their staunchest supporters vehemently denied were true, then confirming them all?

Among those:
- that the irreparable rift between William and Harry began as a result of the documentary in South Africa, at which point communication between the two broke down almost completely
- that most of Harry’s friends disappeared from his life, and that if you were to ask them why this is, they would tell you it is due to Meghan
- that Tyler Perry did not know the couple before lending them his house
- that at least some of the “secret godparents” were celebrities barely known to the couple
- that Oprah did not know the couple before attending their wedding and began angling for an interview almost right after attending

There are at least several more, but when each of these (and especially the first two) were reported, the couple’s greatest supporters dismissed them as tabloid hate-mongering, gossip-spreading, and targeted lying. It is interesting in hindsight that the couple, in a series purportedly about the false narrative created around them, confirms a lot of that narrative.

Good points here and yes I would not be surprised if they are reading this forum as well as others.

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

Curryong, by secret I meant secret at the time they would ordinarily have been announced, not secret any longer. Thank you for the chance to clarify my meaning for other posters.

I am not sure how the accusation that Her late Majesty sat in silence looking on while William lit into Harry can be anything but a direct attack on her. To me, the tone was very much “she sat there and just watched it happen and did nothing about it.” It was not “she didn’t do anything” as in she played no role, but “she didn’t do anything” as in she just let us be attacked and was complicit. I say this having watched and listened to the entire thing in context.

Reasonable minds will naturally differ.

 

[miss whirley]

Who is at the head of the institution? THe queen. Harry did initially like his mother and Fergie, claim that he was just crtiicisng the couriters or the institution of the RF, but since then he has moved on to more direct attacks. He referred to genetic pain in child rearing in the RF, which implicates the queen. He attacked the Commonwealth which was very much the queen's baby, and compared it to the Empire, when the Empire has been gone for 100 years and has been replaced by the C'weatlh which is very different, partly owing ot the queen's work for it.

He also called the Queen a puppet. But apparently that's a compliment from a Prince. Who knew.

 

[Alisa]

that is simply not the case. Harry was saying that he was looking after his grandmother which he clearly was not, the implicaton being that she was a daffy old girl who needed looking after her, and in saying that she was just letting Charles and William go on attacking him is an attack on her. Not to mention the claim that the Commonwealth, which was something the queen cared deeply about and worked on, was Empire Mark 2, is another attack, insinuating that her work trying to work for the Commonwealth union to help the people of the former empire, was just the Empire under another name.

How is Harry saying he was looking after his grandmother an attack? You only "look after" someone you care about.
Your implying and insinuating you chose to ascribe negative interpretations but Harry has actually never stated anything about his grandmother.

 

[assia]

OMG, now trashing Grandma! It's like he is on a path of self-destruction in the UK while Meghan makes a career out of the UK titles here in the USA. The level of entitlement and delusion is off the charts.

I can’t believe they have gone so far as to including HM the Queen in that reality show !! How can they expect to get any positivity out of this .

 

[Denville]

How is Harry saying he was looking after his grandmother an attack? You only "look after" someone you care about.
Your implying and insinuating you chose to ascribe negative interpretations but Harry has actually never stated anything about his grandmother.

As I said, he expressed it in a way that he felt she was a daffy old thing who needed help, but in fact he seems to have not spent much time with her in the last year or 2, even allowing for Covid etc. And I wont repeat myself, but he has attacked her directly, particularly in making those statements about the Commonwealth

 

[HRHHermione]

How is Harry saying he was looking after his grandmother an attack? You only "look after" someone you care about.
Your implying and insinuating you chose to ascribe negative interpretations but Harry has actually never stated anything about his grandmother.

The context of the quote people are referring to is an interview prior to this documentary where Harry said he was making sure she had the right people around her and was protected. This implied that some of the people around her weren't the right people and that he had authority over who his grandmother was surrounded with. This would be a normal thing to say about your aging grandparent, but it's an incendiary thing to say about your sovereign head of state. Think about the ramifications for her job. If she was aged to the point that she needed Prince Harry to decide for her who was the right person for her to trust, then she certainly wouldn't be considered of sound mind to exercise her constitutional authority. These are the moments where it's very important to remember she was never just the Queen and never just a grandmother and mother. She was always both.

I honestly very much empathize with how hard it can be to have a different opinion around here and I respect your right to yours, but I wanted to explain why people interpreted those comments as negative.

 

[Erin9]

very much so. He has moved on to direct overt attacks on his father, his brother and his grandmother. Im sure there was anger at the Sandringham meeting, but I very much doubt that William shouting if he did so, was really scaring Harry. ANd Harry directly attacked his brother father and grandma in what he's said about the Summit. Also, ridiculous to say that Meghan was excluded when she had gone back to Canada after a couple of days in the UK.

Agreed. Even IF there was shouting I’m really supposed to buy Harry was scared of William?And bullied? I don’t think so. What a lousy thing to do to William. I’m sure there was anger- on both sides.

I’m sure Harry has never yelled at anyone ever- oh wait…. I know I read about him yelling at staff in a book they didn’t sue over. I’m sure he’s yelled at William and other members of his family too.

I can’t remember what exactly he said about Charles, but it sure wasn’t nice.

I think Harry still fails to understand what literally everyone understood except him and Meghan before the SS: the HIHO plan they presented was not do-able. Period.

 

[Erin9]

How is Harry saying he was looking after his grandmother an attack? You only "look after" someone you care about.

Your implying and insinuating you chose to ascribe negative interpretations but Harry has actually never stated anything about his grandmother.

The implication imo is that no one but him was.
HRHHermione just explained it much better than me.

He just said she sat there silently during the SS. That was not meant to be a compliment imo.

 

[KristehH]

On the contrary, that has been the one consistent thing. They have been verbally critical of the institution (note not the Queen), William, Catherine, and Charles but never have they spoken a bad word against the Queen.

Until now...when she's not here to respond. Very low thing to do, imo.

 

[Alisa]

The context of the quote people are referring to is an interview prior to this documentary where Harry said he was making sure she had the right people around her and was protected. This implied that some of the people around her weren't the right people and that he had authority over who his grandmother was surrounded with. This would be a normal thing to say about your aging grandparent, but it's an incendiary thing to say about your sovereign head of state. Think about the ramifications for her job. If she was aged to the point that she needed Prince Harry to decide for her who was the right person for her to trust, then she certainly wouldn't be considered of sound mind to exercise her constitutional authority. These are the moments where it's very important to remember she was never just the Queen and never just a grandmother and mother. She was always both.

I honestly very much empathize with how hard it can be to have a different opinion around here and I respect your right to yours, but I wanted to explain why people interpreted those comments as negative.

I remember the interview very well but none of that is a direct attack on the Queen and I certainly don't view the comments as an attack or as him "trashing" the Queen. Obviously Harry was delusional to make those statements as he has zero influence on who is around the Queen and who "the right people" are. Perhaps if he were the Prince of Wales he may have a say but not as the Duke of Sussex and certainly not all the way from his mansion in Montecito.

 

[Denville]

I remember the interview very well but none of that is a direct attack on the Queen and I certainly don't view the comments as an attack or as him "trashing" the Queen. Obviously Harry was delusional to make those statements as he has zero influence on who is around the Queen and who "the right people" are. Perhaps if he were the Prince of Wales he may have a say but not as the Duke of Sussex and certainly not all the way from his mansion in Montecito.

well yes it is an attack on the queen. Its saying that she was not really mentally sound enough to do her job and that he, even though he is only her grandson and not even living near her or seeing her much, was the only person who could make sure she had the right people around her. Its also an attack on the queen's children who ARE close enough to keep an eye on her, insinuating that they were not dong this.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

HRHHermione, thank you for the recaps. They’re excellent and so informative.


Yep. He’s completely throwing them under the bus.

Some quotes from Harry. In the second quote, he’s basically accusing William of bullying him out of the family.

Thanks so much for the recaps and the link someone left to the Guardian’s play by play. What I’ve gleaned from this is that Harry thinks William/Catherine were jealous of Meghan’s popularity the same as Charles was jealous of Diana’s - wow, wow, WOW!!! Talk about throwing your family under the bus! And how ironic/unbelievable/stupid/incredulous/unforgivable that Harry is using the same medium (pun intended) to destroy his family as he said this same media destroyed his mother. And he also shares that during a private conversation his brother screamed at him?

I have one younger sister whom I love dearly but have had many squabbles with (as siblings do) over the years. NEITHER of us would EVER publicly announce these to the whole world.

If their end game is to totally destroy their relationships with the RF, mission accomplished, Harry. They will never trust you again and there is no coming back from this. Your mother would be heartbroken and absolutely appalled.

 

[Lilyflo]

The things that stand out for me:

The absence of self-reflection on what they (mainly Harry IMO) could have done to make the situation work better;

The amount of ugly and vicious articles in the UK press, which must have been extremely distressing. Others have endured it too but Meghan has definitely had the worst treatment of anyone that I can recall (and I'm a Granny);

The lack of balance in reporting the amount of help and advice they received, particularly from family;

The reports of William shouting at Harry. (I'm sure William and Charles can recall many incidents when Harry was shouting at THEM);

The swipe at QE2 for saying nothing, rather than saying he felt sorry for her having to witness a family row;

The acknowledgement and acceptance that Harry's role was to support his father and brother, not to compete with them;

Meghan's continuous documentation of her life and serving it up for public consumption. No wonder Harry has lost friends because who'd risk being in the next instalment?

My enduring sorrow for Harry (even though I'm critical of many of his actions). He's had a lot of privileges in his life but nothing compensates for losing emotional security, which I think has hampered his development into a resilient adult and fuelled his anger.

There's more but those are my main take-aways so far.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Here's episode one, two parts for length. There was a lot in this one that will be discussed even if not much new was actually said.

List of those interviewed in Episode 3 (aside from Harry and Meghan): Clare Waight Keller, Meghan's wedding dress designer. Heather Dorak, Meghan's friend. Vicky Tsai, Meghan's friend.
Serena Williams, Meghan's friend. Dhou Purohit, Meghan's friend. Lucy Fraser, Meghan's Friend. Silver Tree, Meghan's friend. James Holt, executive director of Archewell. Munira Mahmud, Grenfell survivor. Afua Hirsch, Journalist and Author. David Olusoga, author. Abigail Spencer, Meghan's friend and Suits co-star. Lucy Fraser, Meghans' friend. Kehinde Andrews, Author The New Age of Empire. Doria Ragland, Meghan's mother. Lorren Khumalo, their former nanny in the UK.

Not So Brief Recap: The documentary opens with footage of Queen Elizabeth II's wedding to Prince Phillip, footage of Diana and Charles, and other royal wedding including William and Kate's. Meghan says that there's a moment when their private secretary who had worked for the Queen for twenty years (clearly Samantha Cohen) compared the Royal family to fish swimming perfectly with the current until a foreign organism arrived (her) and this is over negative tabloid headlines about her. She continues that Cohen (not named) said that after a period of adjustment, she'd be recognized as an asset to the family. This is accompanied by positive headlines about her being the one to change the face of the Royal Family and Meghan says she was hopeful that would be true.

Then the theme plays.

It shows Windsor Castle preparing for their wedding. Meghan says she was very calm going into their wedding and she doesn't know how. All she wanted was a mimosa and a croissant and she played "Chapel of Love" as she got ready. Images of their wedding crowds are shown. Meghan's dress designer, Clare Waight Keller, compares the crowd to being in a massive football stadium. Crowd estimates are shared. Images of famous guests arriving and William and Harry walking around are shown as Chapel of Love plays. Meghan said she didn't know that for the 15 minute drive to Windsor, crowds would line the streets. Harry says there was an expectation "Diana's Boy" would have a public wedding and that people wanted to see him married like William. The first glimpse of the dress is shown. The dress designer says they had many conversations about how Meghan wanted to present herself to the world, since billions would be watching, and the pressure to make it flawless and perfect. More wedding photos shown. Meghan says she remembers thinking "take a deep breath and keep going." Meghan says Harry chose the song she walked down the aisle to and it was beautiful. Harry says Charles helped them choose an orchestra which made all the difference. Meghan says "Harry's dad is very charming. And, I said to him like I've lost my dad in this. So him as my father in law was really important to me. So I asked him to walk me down the aisle and he said yes. The whole thing was surreal because at that moment I could also see H." Harry is asked what was going through his head when he saw her coming. He says "Look at me, look what I got" which Meghan laughs at. Then he says "oh my gosh, look what I found." He says though the world was watching, as far as he was concerned at the altar it was just the two of them. She says "H and I are very good at finding each other in the chaos. When we find each other we reconnect like oh its you, its you. It's not that the rest of it doesn't matter but the rest of it feels temporary.

Vicky Tsai, Meghan's friend, says it felt like a moment where the world paused and celebrated love. She shares more reflections about her impressions and how it almost made her cry. The choir singing Stand By Me is show. Waight Keller mentions that the wedding felt very new and different and that there was no pushback on their desire for a gospel choir- in fact Charles helped out it together by piecing together the best people from different gospel choirs. Serena Williams says it was amazing to see Meghan's culture represented at the wedding and it broke boundaries without trying to. Dhou Purohit, Meghan's friend, says there with a moment where he, Oprah, Idris Elba and his partner, all looked at each other and had a chuckle and no one needed to say anything because they were all aware of the symbolism taking place. More wedding footage.

Meghan says they had the reception at St. George's Hall, cut cake with a sword (Harry's contribution) and she says it was great, it's so over the top, Elton John was performing. She said her mom was so excited to see Elton sing. Their wedding song was Song of a Thousand Dances which she sings a bit of. She says their first dance was so fun, and never before seen wedding receptions are shown. Lucy Fraser and Silver Tree talk about how it was a perfect wedding and Meg was madly in love.

James Holt says that if you were writing the royal family as a novel, this is the moment you'd want to introduce a new character like Meghan who can speak to a modernization and a new generation of people. A video of Meghan dancing in the door way at Nottingham Cottage is shown and Harry says its his favorite video. They say that as far as people were aware they were living in a palace, but they were living in a cottage on palace grounds. Meghan says "Kensington Palace sounds very regal. Of course it does, but she says Nottingham Cottage was so small. Harry says the whole thing is on a lean and the ceilings are short and he was always hitting his head. Meghan says no one could believe what it was like then, but Oprah came for tea and saw it and said "no one would ever believe it."

Meghan says her first official engagement with Her Majesty was early on, they took the royal train, Meghan says she had a really great time with her. Footage of the engagement is shown. She's asked what you talk about with the Queen of England and she says she treated her like her husband's grandma. Knowing that there needed to be propriety in public but that at breakfast they could just talk. Her Majesty shared her blanket and Meghan said she respected her as the Queen but saw her as a grandmother figure and that felt like family. Meghan says she was very close to her grandmother and took care of her during her final years so it meant a lot to her. Meghan says it was the anniversary of Grenfell and she'd become close to the women survivors even though no one knew that at the time. Footage of the fire is shown. Meghan talks about watching it on the news at Nottingham Cottage.

James Holt talks about the immigrant population of Grenfell and the wealth disparity between it and Kensington. Meghan says she wanted to go down there and do something, and she connected with the mosque. A survivor, Munira Mahmud, is interviewed about how she started the community kitchen to try to help everyone feel normal again. She says they did it twice a week until the Duchess came. Meghan is shown with the women there, and she wanted to help in the kitchen. Meghan said she kept going back to visit and she loved the women, so Meghan came up with the cook book idea to help fund the kitchen operating every day instead of just twice a week. Meghan says the cookbook launch was the first speech she made as a member of the royal family and it is shown. Natalie Campbell, former director of the Sussex Royal Foundation is shown in the past talking about how brilliant the sales were. Positive commentary that says Meghan was changing the way the royal family is seen is shown. Afua Hirsch agrees and talks about it.

How bizarre and telling that not a single one of Harry’s friends are interviewed. No longer friends, perhaps?

 

[Erin9]

So- not one single member of Harry’s family was interviewed for this?

The best he can do is footage of Eugenie visiting. I can’t help but wonder what she thinks of all this.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

He has the nerve to complain about William shouting at him when he allegedly shouted at William on the phone when William asked him about Meghan bullying or being rude to staff and shouted at Angela Kelly about the wedding tiara. He has no business trying to act like a 12 year old boy being shouted at. He’s need to grow up.

 

[Alisa]

Who is at the head of the institution? THe queen. Harry did initially like his mother and Fergie, claim that he was just crtiicisng the couriters or the institution of the RF, but since then he has moved on to more direct attacks. He referred to genetic pain in child rearing in the RF, which implicates the queen. He attacked the Commonwealth which was very much the queen's baby, and compared it to the Empire, when the Empire has been gone for 100 years and has been replaced by the C'weatlh which is very different, partly owing ot the queen's work for it.

The Commonwealth statement was awful and should never have been said . Sorry I had to watch it so I can make an educated response.
I'm guessing the these new statements is a response to William and Catherine's trip to places like Jamaica. After all, if they really felt that way about the Commonwealth why did they accept ambassador roles snd why did Meghan have the national flowers from the Commonwealth countries embroidered in her veil?

I don't believe that criticizing the institution and its elements is tantamount to criticizing the sovereign. All throughout history there have been disputes and disagreements with couriers and royals. Fergie and Diana were mentioned in this thread and I certainly never viewed their complaints and grievances with the institution as grievances against the Queen. In recent years Andrew and Charles were very critical of senior courtiers and people like the Queen's private secretary. Again- beiing critical of the elements or the institution doesn't equate to being critical of the monarch.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

So- not one single member of Harry’s family was interviewed for this?

The best he can do is footage of Eugenie visiting. I can’t help but wonder what she thinks of all this.

I dare say, no friends of his took part either and they are the type who don’t like the publicity and fanfare Harry has been on since he moved to the USA. Which family member would take part in this lie-fest ? Eugenie may be very close to him, but I think she knows where to draw the line and he’s not that close to the Spencer cousins so Harry is on his here.

 

[Denville]

I would say that to insinuate that the queen just sat there while William attacked Harry and Charles said things that weren't true, is a criticism of the queen. Its basically saying that she, the head of the family tolerated an unkind attack by one grandson on another and her own son making or agreeing to false statements.