Marius Borg Høiby News & Current Events Part 1: December 2023 -

[PhillyMonarchist]

It’s also her role not just Haakon and that’s a choice she made. There is no us vs the world here or at least it shouldn’t be. She’s endangering Ingrid’s position and she’s her responsibility as well. If Mette-Marit can’t do anything about this, I’m not sure what Haakon can as it relates to Marius that is.

kick him to curb

 

[Chimene]

Loving him means she has the hard task of doing whatever is necessary for him to get well and be a productive member of society. I don’t envy her situation, and I can sympathize that he or both have experienced trauma, but we all have to various degrees. I also understand that we don’t all have the same coping mechanisms or resilience, but you are never allowed to hurt people no matter what your justification is or might be. Once is a mistake. Twice you need to be watched. A third is showing a pattern that needs to be rectified, and if not, here we are.

 

[PhillyMonarchist]

Loving him means she has the hard task of doing whatever is necessary for him to get well and be a productive member of society. I don’t envy her situation, and I can sympathize that he or both have experienced trauma, but we all have to various degrees. I also understand that we don’t all have the same coping mechanisms or resilience, but you are never allowed to hurt people no matter what your justification is or might be. Once is a mistake. Twice you need to be watched. A third is showing a pattern that needs to be rectified, and if not, here we are.

I was referring to haakon doing that (..)

 

[kalnel]

Does the NRF employ any PR people at all? A true professional will throw up his hands in dispair and horror.

I'd guess the PR people recommended that they go shopping together. It suggests they have nothing to hide, life is normal, and they do "regular people" things. They're not ashamed or hiding in the dark with lawyers.

 

[Chimene]

I was referring to haakon doing that (..)

Oh, sorry I misinterpreted your comment. There seems to be a lot of paralysis and guilt going around in this family. I was very impressed with the way in which the King and Queen specifically embraced the little boy. I think everyone is allowing their own experiences to cloud their judgments, and that’s very human, but overstepping boundaries when you’re in a position of leadership is not something that should be done.

 

[Alisa]

I'm appalled that Mette-Marit and Marius staged this shopping excursion. Again Mette-Marit is defiantly showing that she will choose Marius all the time, every time. This is very telling and in the grand scheme of things not good at all!!

 

[fabaunty]

yes norway need a monarchy a republic would be terrible

i dont think u all realize that marius is likely abusing his mother too who via trauma wiill do what ever to calm him down


also i am sure the sliverware wasnt being carried out in the opened

The silver wear concerned was offered for sale publicly , the gas card was used publicly , the tour of the private house of the CP couple was broadcast publicly , footage of the dangerous driving of Marius , on the royal estate , in his own words almost wiping out a guard , is public. However whilst I do realise and accept that grown children can terrorise their parents into protecting them , in this case I believe that much of Marius behaviour comes from the fact that MM believes firmly that she ruined any chance of Marius having a "normal life " by her marriage to Haakon . For over two decades she has tried to make up for the "twisted dynamic" that resulted from the different status of her children . Drawing in not only her husband , but his parents and the press etc . The CP couple need some speedy damage control , and MM needs to accept her responsibility for her actions , as she did before her marriage , I include Haakon in this, as he has in my opinion been an equal partner .

 

[Alondra]

I think it's premature talking about the end of the Norwegian monarchy because of this scandal. Frankly, all European monarchies have had some pretty serious scandals in the last 20 years, and they've all survived.

Marius is being charged with some pretty serious issues, and, hopefully, Norway's justice system can deal with them without too much interfering from the Royal House and other institutions.

Lets give time to the Police, and the judiciary to deal with a pretty difficult subject, considering the institutional implications. Until the charges are brought to Court, and a sentence is passed, all our countries function on the premise of "being innocent until proven guilty".

Marius may very well be guilty of everything he's been charged with but, until the matter comes to Court, and he's sentenced, the Royal House may choose not to act against him.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I'd guess the PR people recommended that they go shopping together. It suggests they have nothing to hide, life is normal, and they do "regular people" things. They're not ashamed or hiding in the dark with lawyers.

oh dear, the last I'd suggest is go shopping for furniture after Marius smashed up the furniture in his ex girlfriends flat.

 

[fortimo]

I'm appalled that Mette-Marit and Marius staged this shopping excursion. Again Mette-Marit is defiantly showing that she will choose Marius all the time, every time. This is very telling and in the grand scheme of things not good at all!!

She is his mother. This is the primary and most important role in her life, not the crown princessship with which she should serve millions of unknowns. And it is good so. (..) And I don't think, that Haakon had too much to say in the life of Marius. I am sure, that Mette-Marit didn't let it. MM has the stronger personality and I think in the case of Marius she didn't accept opinions and good advices, not even from the King.

 

[Muhler]

I think it's premature talking about the end of the Norwegian monarchy because of this scandal. Frankly, all European monarchies have had some pretty serious scandals in the last 20 years, and they've all survived.

Marius is being charged with some pretty serious issues, and, hopefully, Norway's justice system can deal with them without too much interfering from the Royal House and other institutions.

Lets give time to the Police, and the judiciary to deal with a pretty difficult subject, considering the institutional implications. Until the charges are brought to Court, and a sentence is passed, all our countries function on the premise of "being innocent until proven guilty".

Marius may very well be guilty of everything he's been charged with but, until the matter comes to Court, and he's sentenced, the Royal House may choose not to act against him.

The survival of a royal house is not so much about what crisis they are facing, unless it happens to be some kind of violent revolution aimed at killing them off, it's how that royal houses handles a major crisis that is the deciding factor.
If the royal house does it well, they can actually come out stronger, but if handled badly even a small thing can serious damage even an otherwise successful royal house.
In the case with the NRF they are facing a string of serious cases they need to deal with.
Marius, which is getting worse almost for each day! And Marius won't just go away. He can still cause problems 30-4o years from now.
And they have ML and her shaman, who if not dealt with either, will also cause problems for many years to come.
While at the same time the NRF will within a few years be reduced to two perhaps three (Magnus) public figures, so there is no other popular couple who can be the darlings of the NRF and take the spotlight for a number of years to come - I doubt Ingrid will get married and have children within the next five years.
And if one of these two or three remaining becomes seriously unpopular (Haakon) then the NRF has reached a critical point.
So Ingrid (and Magnus) better be perfect and so does her spouse.

But back to the initial argument, so far the NRF has handled this terribly. Especially on a personal level, because I think there can be little doubt by now that Mette Marit and also Haakon, have done what they could to shield Marius from consequences or at the very least have been exceptionally passive.
And their PR policy has been: say nothing and pretend everything is normal and then the whole thing may eventually blow over - it won't!
I think it's now time for King Harald to step forward and admit that the NRF has a major problem, that hasn't been dealt with in the best possible way and that they are now trying to figure out how to handle it. Because sometimes total honesty is the best way out. At least with King Harald, people may still listen and believe he is sincere.
I.e. doing a QEII after the death of Diana.
And as you know from other monarchies, sometimes drastic measured needed to be taken as a part of the damage control.

It's about time the NRF realize that as much as they'd like to, they are not a normal family and need to act as such.

 

[Alondra]

The survival of a royal house is not so much about what crisis they are facing, unless it happens to be some kind of violent revolution aimed at killing them off, it's how that royal houses handles a major crisis that is the deciding factor.
If the royal house does it well, they can actually come out stronger, but if handled badly even a small thing can serious damage even an otherwise successful royal house.
In the case with the NRF they are facing a string of serious cases they need to deal with.
Marius, which is getting worse almost for each day! And Marius won't just go away. He can still cause problems 30-4o years from now.
And they have ML and her shaman, who if not dealt with either, will also cause problems for many years to come.
While at the same time the NRF will within a few years be reduced to two perhaps three (Magnus) public figures, so there is no other popular couple who can be the darlings of the NRF and take the spotlight for a number of years to come - I doubt Ingrid will get married and have children within the next five years.
And if one of these two or three remaining becomes seriously unpopular (Haakon) then the NRF has reached a critical point.
So Ingrid (and Magnus) better be perfect and so does her spouse.

But back to the initial argument, so far the NRF has handled this terribly. Especially on a personal level, because I think there can be little doubt by now that Mette Marit and also Haakon, have done what they could to shield Marius from consequences or at the very least have been exceptionally passive.
And their PR policy has been: say nothing and pretend everything is normal and then the whole thing may eventually blow over - it won't!
I think it's now time for King Harald to step forward and admit that the NRF has a major problem, that hasn't been dealt with in the best possible way and that they are now trying to figure out how to handle it. Because sometimes total honesty is the best way out. At least with King Harald, people may still listen and believe he is sincere.
I.e. doing a QEII after the death of Diana.
And as you know from other monarchies, sometimes drastic measured needed to be taken as a part of the damage control.

It's about time the NRF realize that as much as they'd like to, they are not a normal family and need to act as such.

Muher, surviving crises for monarchies are becoming a normal state of affairs these days. Their PR is always the same, admit nothing, say nothing and pretend the institution works fine. It works.

Drastic measures are taken only on the advice of senior royal public servants, public prosecutors and court lawyers when the institution is in serious problems

IN the meantime, we often forget that there is a family involved in court/judiciary/police investigations, and that family will close ranks with their own..... even if they are the highest rank family on the land.

 

[Chimene]

Closing ranks with their own is a very fine attribute and completely human again, but not when it comes to criminal and harmful behavior towards others. In that instance it means engaging in a covert up and that’s illegal.

She is his mother and she will always love him no matter what. I think everyone understands that, but her unconditional love and support should be done in private. Publicly, and privately as well, she should make sure he cooperates, have his day in court, and serve whatever punishment he deserves.

She needs to express to him that his conduct is unacceptable and remind him that the punishment is the result of his bad actions and decisions. You have done some terrible things that I’m not proud of, but I will always love and be there for you. Nothing will ever change that. That’s the velvet glove.

I don’t know about the monarchy ending, but if I were a Norwegian I know I would not have a lot of confidence in the institution if they can’t even manage the principles. However, I suspect that people will give them grace, and I don’t disagree, because the issues here are complex in nature and involve a character although old enough to know better, but is still a bit young.

Spain had the smartest and savviest problem solvers that very effectively and efficiently guided the institution out of its crisis. Maybe Norway doesn’t have a strong enough management structure to handle these difficult situations.

 

[moby]

One of the more troubling things about the whole issue is how often it's been repeated that the current king is frail, while the next one is very passive. There are worse things than being passive but I also would not want my king perceived as such.

 

[Mbruno]

Muher, surviving crises for monarchies are becoming a normal state of affairs these days. Their PR is always the same, admit nothing, say nothing and pretend the institution works fine. It works.

Drastic measures are taken only on the advice of senior royal public servants, public prosecutors and court lawyers when the institution is in serious problems

IN the meantime, we often forget that there is a family involved in court/judiciary/police investigations, and that family will close ranks with their own..... even if they are the highest rank family on the land.

I think we are overlooking the role and responsibility of the elected government here.

The constitutional requirement for example that marriages of people in the line of succession be consented to is not just an arcane provision reflecting a bygone era. It exists instead for the protection of the state and, as such, is a matter that should concern the government and not just the King personally as King Harald V is known to have claimed.

Different Norwegian governments apparently refused the raise objections to Haakon's marriage to MM or, more recently, to ML's marriage to Durek, or, at least, they did not bother to advise the King against consenting to either marriage.

In the recent case involving Marius, on the other hand, the government naturally does not want to interfere in the King's or the Crown Prince's prerogatives to manage their own households, but when Marius' actions were clearly triggering potential or actual threats to the state (either by his association with criminals or terrorists, or by potential impacts on the image of the monarchy), they had in my opinion a constitutional duty to intervene and advise the King or the Crown Prince to act, especially in view of the Crown Prince's apparent inaction in particular.

I may sound too harsh, but it appears to me that, in an effort to appear inclusive and liberal, the Norwegian government is also guilty by omission.

 

[maria-olivia]

The King and the Queen should never admit the Wedding of Haakon with a Norvegian girl with such a bad past who should be Queen of the Norvegiens ! One day old stories or always coming out.
They smiles and knew Marius is doing disasters since years .
1026 st post !

 

[Chimene]

I need to read on Mette-Marist’s past because I thought it was a case of her being a model who did some drugs and had was a teenage mother. I’ve always been understanding because she was young and these sorts of things can happen when you’re finding your way in the world. Should that be a disqualifying factor for the role of a Queen? I didn’t think so because I assumed she was reformed because she took ownership of her mistakes and had taken responsibility for her actions. Should I reconsider?

 

[ladongas]

People seem outraged that MM and her son are doing innocuous activities together, such as shopping. What would be said if they totally hunkered down, totally out of sight? I believe that Norway may have the principle of “presumption of innocence” unless proven guilty. And under the circumstances, I imagine that his family wishes to keep Marius very close to keep him out of further trouble. And considering his admitted addiction and mental health struggles, that’s what they should do.

Keeping him engaged in casual real life activities is important, helping him realize that there is life beyond the demimonde in which he became enmeshed, preparing him for a wholesome lifestyle in the future, regardless of how his current problems are resolved. The so-called ‘tough love’ theory of kicking an adult child out and letting him fend for himself seldom works. It usually results in further trouble, and all too often, in death. In my small town, I have seen the ‘keep them close and love them’ succeed frequently. The young person recuperates and recovers from his/her troubles and goes forward to a normal life. The ‘tough love’ approach seldom has a happy ending, but often ends in further addiction, legal problems, overdoses, suicide… I can’t imagine how a loving family could make that decision, and then live forever with the tragic results, although I have known and seen it.

You don’t just give up ‘to teach them a lesson’, or even to ingratiate yourself with others in your social circle, or in your professional position. Even if you’re a royal. MM and Haakon want to save their son. The law will have its way with him, but it’s not the family’s obligation to prove him guilty, despite their position, They will love him and help him to heal, and to regain his future.
I’m sad for all his victims, but only those who love him can save him.

Kick him to the curb? Surely not in a presumably Christian family.

 

[Muhler]

Muher, surviving crises for monarchies are becoming a normal state of affairs these days. Their PR is always the same, admit nothing, say nothing and pretend the institution works fine. It works.

Drastic measures are taken only on the advice of senior royal public servants, public prosecutors and court lawyers when the institution is in serious problems

IN the meantime, we often forget that there is a family involved in court/judiciary/police investigations, and that family will close ranks with their own..... even if they are the highest rank family on the land.

If they put their family above their country, then they can't be the leading family of that country. That's the whole idea of modern monarchies: Country before family. Otherwise they will sooner or later be booted out.

The well-used and often effective method of saying nothing and pretend everything is normal, doesn't work anymore. They've already tried that - to put it mildly!

I think any royal family can survive a bad apple, even two bad apples as well as bad decisions. But when the bad apples begin to outnumber the good ones, combined with a lot of bad decisions, then there is a real problem!

We have a Crown Princess, who had an unfortunate behavior in her youth, fair enough. But she continued to associate people with an unfortunate reputation. Epstein and his friends too we must assume, some of whom had an equal bad reputation, not least in exploiting minors.
And she had the audacity to stand up as a champion of women's rights, giving speeches, visiting and showing sympathy for victims of domestic abuse, and other forms of abuse, taking part in meeting discussing how to address and put focus on that issue - while her own son was beating up girlfriend after girlfriend. And she very likely not only knowing that, but tried to shield him from the consequences of that.
Is she going to continue behaving like everything is normal and keep speaking up for women's rights?

We have Haakon, who could be king tomorrow. Who BTW happens to have a brother-in-law who is an ex-con, not just once but several times and who is still waltzing around being an open charlatan.
Known hardcore criminals have been riding a sedge wick through his private apartment, stealing from him, probably looking under his bed as well, because who locks their bedroom doors when they are away, especially if you live in a guarded house... And he did what?
He has a stepson who for years has been associating known criminals, who even now is still associating known criminals, and he did what? He has a stepson who is a cocaine addict and who has obvious anger issues and he did what? On the contrary there is very good reason to believe that Haakon has been involved in some sort of cover up for Marius, at least to some extent.
He has allowed known hardcore criminals to come freely to his stepson's home at Skaugum, for years. On a property directly controlled by him, as CP, making a mockery of not only the police but also the armed forces, whose uniform he is wearing.
Haakon could be king tomorrow and then he, he personally, will represent and formally head the very system, he has thumbed his nose at.
But the worst thing for me, is that he and Mette Marit, have shown no respect at all for the victims of the crimes perpetrated by Marius friends. Because they have done nothing. They have helped Marius alright. But for everybody else, the often mis-qouted: "Let 'em eat cake" is apt.
With drugs comes crime. With crime comes victims. Even without victims, with drugs comes human misery. Yet Marius was allowed to continue to associate with those who were directly responsible for that suffering - at Skaugum of all places!
So yes, the NRF has a major problem on their hands right now! A problem that cannot just be dealt with by being silent and keep going on as normal.

This is not about taking bribes from someone. Or having affairs left and right. Or having a string of illegitimate children. Or being in the habit of speeding. Or being too stupid to tie their own shoelaces. Or being dead drunk in public. Or having a major feud within the family. - All that can be dealt with.
You put the offending member on grass, or if it's the monarch, you let him abdicate or you let someone else take the spotlight and become the darlings (and sometimes the hope) of the public.
And usually when the problem is dealt with, that's it, they can move on and rebuild the reputation of the monarchy.
In Norway however ML and her shaman as well as Marius won't go away. They'll still be around. And with Haakon and Mette Marit likely to get seriously tainted from this, there is only Ingrid, and perhaps Magnus left untainted. That's an awful few people to base a monarchy on.

So yes, Haakon and Mette Marit in particular owe the Norwegians a very good explanation and they'd better come up with a very growling, unreserved and convincing apology. And maintain that stance for the rest of their lives. They should never ever even dream about uttering a single word that could be interpreted as this being unfair,

 

[Alondra]

Spain had a heck of institutional problems dealing with the double whammy of NOOS and Juan Carlos financial kickbacks and his money in off shore accounts. I still remember queen Sofia and Inaki photograph in Washington plastered all over HOLA, at the height of the NOOS scandal, and how badly was received by most of us. It meant she was supporting him and her daughter Cristina against all prosecution charges - family was first.

Felipe with Letizia's support (the one knew what was at a stake), together with the government, forced JC abdication and created the firewall against both, but meant a serious toll in the family and leaving the royal family so bared, they had to multiply themselves to cope with all the duties.

Marius issues are horrendous but are peripheral to the royal family. He's a non royal which means he has no role to play institutionally.

The charges are awful but family will stick together until the moment there is a sentence or senior royal public servants say "we have a serious problem"

Until then the royal house likely won't act and will wait until Marius faces Court

 

[Alisa]

She is his mother. This is the primary and most important role in her life, not the crown princessship with which she should serve millions of unknowns. And it is good so. (..) And I don't think, that Haakon had too much to say in the life of Marius. I am sure, that Mette-Marit didn't let it. MM has the stronger personality and I think in the case of Marius she didn't accept opinions and good advices, not even from the King.

Yes she is his mother but she is the future Queen of Norway and needs to think of her role as such. Given the numerous, grievous, and very public nature of his crimes Mette-Marit needs to be careful in how she is publicly seen dealing with her son. Of course she could have easily invited Marius over to Skaugum to do some shopping online in private or visited his place and do some shopping online. Marius could also gotten his grandmother, stepmother, or one of his low-profile female relatives to help him if he so desperately needed a woman's opinion.
Instead he got the Crown Princess-mother to be publicly seen and photographed furniture shopping with him. Given that one of his crimes is destroying furniture/property in connection to a domestic violence charge, Mette-Marit's presence is just tone deaf.

 

[Muhler]

Spain had a heck of institutional problems dealing with the double whammy of NOOS and Juan Carlos financial kickbacks and his money in off shore accounts. I still remember queen Sofia and Inaki photograph in Washington plastered all over HOLA, at the height of the NOOS scandal, and how badly was received by most of us. It meant she was supporting him and her daughter Cristina against all prosecution charges - family was first.

Felipe with Letizia's support (the one knew what was at a stake), together with the government, forced JC abdication and created the firewall against both, but meant a serious toll in the family and leaving the royal family so bared, they had to multiply themselves to cope with all the duties.

Marius issues are horrendous but are peripheral to the royal family. He's a non royal which means he has no role to play institutionally.

The charges are awful but family will stick together until the moment there is a sentence or senior royal public servants say "we have a serious problem"

Until then the royal house likely won't act and will wait until Marius faces Court

I'm in the habit of saying that we should remember that royals are only humans and that sometimes they act like humans That's only natural an I dare say that to an extent that's how it should be, otherwise the royals will be unrelatable.
But... there comes a time where they have to decide between family and the monarchy.
The Spanish royal chose the monarchy. There is no way this could have been an easy choice.

There is however a difference: That was about money and personal greed, there were no direct victims.
There are three names and faces of Marius abuse (the face and name of the third victim is already well known in Norway.)
And as for the direct ad indirect victims of the actions of Marius friends, who were allowed to come to Skaugum, there are faces and names as well.

What will Mette Marit say to the parents of a daughter who is in a crisis center, fearing her abusive spouse?
What will Haakon say to the siblings of a brother who died from an overdose in Oslo last year?