The Princess of Orange, News and Events Part 1: Dec 2021 - January 2024


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There is a lot of assumption anyway:

Amalia for sure will study at Leyden University.
No.

Amalia for sure will share a house with Eloïse.
No.

Amalia for sure will be housed in one of the > 450 Amsterdam properties of her cousin Bernhard van Vollenhoven.
No.
 
I wonder whether the event yesterday in which many women of the Student 'Corps' (that Amalia said to be interested to join as part of experiencing the 'full' student life) in Amsterdam left their lustrum dinner because of the very condensing and sexist speeches at the 'men's dinner' will make Amalia (or her parents) reconsider. Last year they also lost their accreditation at the three main Higher Education Institutions for a year because of incidents during the 'initiation' phase in which many freshmen were wounded.

270 female members signed a letter today stating that have had enough and criticizes the Corps because even though the 'corps' has been discussing and promoting 'cultural change' (less sexist and macho) over the last year; apparently that was just for 'show' and nothing changed at all... especially since one of the members of the 'senate' (the board) was one of the speakers who made these remarks and the speeches were received by many of the men shouting derogatory sexist terms in response.

See this article in Dutch.
 
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I was wondering about the same thing. The dynamics of such a group will be simular to the discussion we recently had about the boarding school of Prince Christian of Denmark. It has been covered with a 'mantle of love' and afterwards shoved under a carpet. The toxic culture has been known for years if not decades and yet nothing changes.

That the princess wants to join this organisation is telling of the excuses that are made on behalf of these 'excellent' young men by over-understanding parents, powers-that-be and others in a simular social class. This corps and others are unwilling to do anything other than to provide lip-service about changing the toxic culture.The logical next step has always been that the university cuts ties completely. But that will not happen of course.

It is open to debate wether it is desirable for the next head-of-state to immerse herself in such a toxic environment. But since she will be doing so out of her free will there is little others can do about it.
 
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What will be the public reaction you think?

Will she get heat like Christian?
 
No i suspect not. These kind of things happen all the time in these associations so we are used to it. If there will be an issue I am sure they will quickly point out that the student corps is trying to change and that 270 members signed a letter condamning the speeches.

Last year they named a senator for 'cultural change', after yet another scandal. The said senator was now responsible for one of the abhorrent speeches, so his role seems to be implemented for window dressing at best.

Edit: the mayor now is thinking about appropriate measures. The Corps issued a statement saying that the members who made the various speeches this weekend have laid down their positions. They added that while they are investigating the matter they will not be accepting any new members. It is open to doubt if an internal investigation will do any good. The said senior members were boasting on stage how they were 'above society' and there is little to indicate that they are not.
 
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Marengo said:
About house in Amsterdam for Pss Amalia her moving in there means that present inhabitants need to move out. SBS has images of them moving their furniture out.

https://www.hartvannederland.nl/nie...amalia-moeten-verhuizen-vanwege-komst-prinses
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It was clearly already in use as a student house but it must be an unhappy surprise to be kicked out of your house on one of the canals for your future queen to be housed (I wouldn't be surprised if it currently already was a 'Corps' house.

If the Corps stays true to its statement that no new members will be included the princess and her friends will need to find a different student union. In most cities there is a Roman Catholic version of the Corps with about the same student culture/experience (for example in Delft it is 'Virgiel' and in Groningen it is 'Albertus' - but I'm not sure about Amsterdam); so it will be interesting to see whether they end up there instead.

Edit: It seems the Roman Catholic Student Union in Amsterdam is not comparable to those in other cities. The second largest student union (of reformed origin) -which is a member of A.H.C. the group of Catholic student corpora- that might be an alternative for Amalia is L.A.N.X. - according to wikipedia her great-grandfather prince Bernhard is an honorary member.
 
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Sounds like she is adamant to go to the Corps... I would highly recommend her to reconsider and go to L.A.N.X. instead; it has a lot in common with the Corps it seems with 'disputen' etc and a less worrisome recent past and current culture.

I am afraid she will go the same route as Christian (and his parents) stick to their choice as long as possible - so unless public pressure increases she will be a member of the Corps in a few weeks...
 
Marengo said:
:previous:

According to the Volkskrant the RVD refuses to say if the Princess will reconsider her application. They claim it is a private matter.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-ac...amse-corps-dan-toch-een-wassen-neus~baa95127/
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I never quite understood the difference between the corps and other studentenverenigingen. The corps ist obviously more traditional, but are there factual and/or qualitative differences?
Could Amalia just join an other (not that controversial/problematic) studentenvereniging?
 
Iolanthe said:
I never quite understood the difference between the corps and other studentenverenigingen. The corps ist obviously more traditional, but are there factual and/or qualitative differences?
Could Amalia just join an other (not that controversial/problematic) studentenvereniging?
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There are huge differences between the Corps and some other student unions and less so with others; the one that comes closest to the traditional Corps are the unions united in Aller Heiligen Convent (most of them originally Roman Catholic; nowadays only in name - includes L.A.N.X. in Amsterdam); and second closest are the ones linked to the Unitas intercity-group with student unions that were originally protestant (these are much younger and include 'Unitas Amsterdam').

In terms of size: 1) Amsterdamsch Studenten Corps (3700 members); 2) L.A.N.X. (1100 members); 3) Unitas (650 members).

Anything else is in most cases less 'studentikoos' (not sure how to translate that - it's about having a hierarchical student culture with lost of traditions that need to be followed; including initiation rites) and/or much more specific, such as a Christian student union (some are rather 'down-to-earth' while others are more 'studentikoos') or one with a very specific interest (such as the arts) or target group (for example international students).

Given that students from the upper class typically are member of the Corps, it is quite important for many to be a member as it will lead to life long opportunities (and friendships) among the influential people in government and business.
 
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Somebody said:
There are huge differences between the Corps and some other student unions and less so with others; the one that comes closest to the traditional Corps are the unions united in Aller Heiligen Convent (most of them originally Roman Catholic; nowadays only in name - includes L.A.N.X. in Amsterdam); and second closest are the ones linked to the Unitas intercity-group with student unions that were originally protestant (these are much younger and include 'Unitas Amsterdam').

Anything else is either much less 'studentikoos' (not sure how to translate that - doesn't share the same hierachical student culture with lost of traditions that need to be followed) or much more specific, such as either a christian student union or one with a very specific interest or target group.

Given that students from the upper class typically are member of the Corps, it is quite important for many to be a member as it will lead to life long opportunities (and friendships) among the influential people in government and business.
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Heel erg bedankt, Somebody.
So if Amalia wants to join an upper class student union the only real alternative in Amsterdam would be LANX?
 
Iolanthe said:
Heel erg bedankt, Somebody.
So if Amalia wants to join an upper class student union the only real alternative in Amsterdam would be LANX?
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Yes, in my opinion that would be a good alternative - looking from the outside I've never seen much difference between the two types - but for those who have set their hearts on becoming a member of the corps like almost anyone else in their family, it might not be that easy to switch to a different one even though the experience itself will be comparable in many ways (and hopefully less comparable in the more harmful ways).
 
Forgive my ignorance, what would be the benefits of joining such a student club, be it traditional or otherwise?
Can't she just stay out and simply study?

I imagine, given her position, she would have no problems finding fellow students to hang out with - in all sorts of ways - without even being a member of anything.
And again, given her unique position and future, she hardly needs a network for the future. In the contrary. Again I imagine students would be queuing to count her as a part of their network and/or social circle.
 
Muhler said:
Forgive my ignorance, what would be the benefits of joining such a student club, be it traditional or otherwise?
Can't she just stay out and simply study?

I imagine, given her position, she would have no problems finding fellow students to hang out with - in all sorts of ways - without even being a member of anything.
And again, given her unique position and future, she hardly needs a network for the future. In the contrary. Again I imagine students would be queuing to count her as a part of their network and/or social circle.
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It's an important part of student life in the Netherlands and she would definitely miss out on a lot of activities that all her peers are participating in. She herself said in her birthday interview that she was looking forward to this aspect of student life as well - I guess especially bonding with her 'jaarclub' (a group of girls that stay together for many years and typically bond for life). And of course, she doesn't need to do so in terms of acquiring a network but in terms of social life; just organizing your own social activities is very different from having your regular student corps/union activities in which you are part of a much larger whole.

If she wants to be a regular student, this is what she is expected to do - I don't think the alternative of organizing your own social activities in which you are the convener is a healthy one at this stage - much better just be one of the many 'freshmen' and work your way up, learning to take responsibility in one of the many committees etc.. She won't have many comparable opportunities in life in which she can learn many life skills that you don't learn by 'just studying'. And in this environment she won't be treated as 'the princess' - she will experience soon enough that she is just one of the many 'sjaars' (freshmen) who needs to learn how things work in this world.

So, I'd say the question is why would she need to set herself apart by distancing herself from what she considers an essential part of student life? As I said, there are alternatives that still provide the experience with less 'baggage' than the ASC.
 
Your remark that she would be alone among her peers made me wonder about these clubs & how many people are a member. I could not find the exact details sadly, but in Rotterdam in 2019 8% of the students joined one. I imagine in Amsterdam the number will not be very different.

Let's not overstate the importance of the experiences in these clubs. The social function is for a large part limited to an excessive intake of alcohol as many days as possible and sleeping around with as many club-members of the opposite sex as they can. The comittees in these clubs may sound impressive but in the end it will be somebody deciding about how many crates of beer to buy. She would learn more from a real student job than from joining one of these clubs. But the network of course will be valuable for many.

--

Sidenote: Although L.A.N.X may be in a former convent it does not have catholic roots. Quite the opposite, it was associated with the VU University of Abraham Kuyper and even prime minister JP Balkenende was a member.
 
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An Ard Ri said:
From memory isn't the Flower Market and my favourite Christmas Store in The Singel?

Shame that the 2 cousins are having a bad patch but sadly it does happen alas!
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Bad patch,I don´t know allthough E is trying too much a tad too far bordering making a spectacle of herself.
Something the broader family doesn´t need!

I am afraid your favorite all year Christmas store is gone,the owners sold it...you can buy your wooden tulips there now...iow....oh never mind..

BTW Marengo,the LANX isn´t by far the same as in the days of Kuyper en Bakellende.
Like VU University itself it is way more open,worldly, these days.
 
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Marengo said:
I was wondering about the same thing. The dynamics of such a group will be simular to the discussion we recently had about the boarding school of Prince Christian of Denmark. It has been covered with a 'mantle of love' and afterwards shoved under a carpet. The toxic culture has been known for years if not decades and yet nothing changes.

That the princess wants to join this organisation is telling of the excuses that are made on behalf of these 'excellent' young men by over-understanding parents, powers-that-be and others in a simular social class. This corps and others are unwilling to do anything other than to provide lip-service about changing the toxic culture.The logical next step has always been that the university cuts ties completely. But that will not happen of course.

It is open to debate wether it is desirable for the next head-of-state to immerse herself in such a toxic environment. But since she will be doing so out of her free will there is little others can do about it.
Click to expand...

Universities indeed should cut ties,yes,and kick m out of any uni on a blacklist.
And,may I suggest,a deep eye to eye talk with some of my veteran friends per chance?
I mean instead of their mommies and daddies telling them they are bad boys?
My option is more,let´s say ...persuasive...? And by far more appropriate for the scum they are!!

Imagine them,our future political leaders,captains of industry and judges...etc etc ...?...Nah,thanks.
 
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A photocall for Princess Amalia on 5th September for the start of university.


"Amalia is going to study and can be photographed! My friends from the RVD are pleased to invite the entire national press for a photo opportunity. Monday 5 September in Amsterdam. Please note: asking questions to Princess Amalia is prohibited."


https://twitter.com/x/status/1554373192948617216
 
ASC (The Amsterdam Student Corps) will accept new members this year (according to NOS), however, they will follow an adapted introduction period that will not include 'proofs' (those things that easily turn into humiliation and sometimes physical aggression). So, I guess Amalia can sign up after all... as I haven't seen any indication that she changed her mind because of the recent scandals.
 
Somebody said:
ASC (The Amsterdam Student Corps) will accept new members this year (according to NOS), however, they will follow an adapted introduction period that will not include 'proofs' (those things that easily turn into humiliation and sometimes physical aggression). So, I guess Amalia can sign up after all... as I haven't seen any indication that she changed her mind because of the recent scandals.
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The Princess of Orange will not join that...Corps.....as was announced this morning by the government information service....Oh,just as well.
 
lucien said:
The Princess of Orange will not join that...Corps.....as was announced this morning by the government information service....Oh,just as well.
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It was announced that she will not join 'now' and 'at this moment'. That sounds very much as if she still intends to join but waits for a moment in which the Corps is less in the picture because of their bad customs.

See NOS.

The relevant bit:

In Dutch:
Prinses Amalia heeft besloten om nu geen lid van het Amsterdamse studentencorps A.S.C./A.V.S.V. te worden. De prinses, die gaat studeren en wonen in Amsterdam, ziet er op dit moment van af.
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Translation:
Princess Amalia has decided not to become a member of the Amsterdam student corps A.S.C./A.V.S.V. now. The princess, who is going to study and live in Amsterdam, is currently (literally: at this moment) forgoing it (read: membership).
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In response to a sarcastic tweet (see this account - unfortunately, I cannot link to the specific tweet) about this news, someone indicated that Amalia was participating in 'walking stamps' (not sure what it means but I guess it is part of the introduction to student life in Amsterdam/the Corps); so that person suggested that most likely the decision has been made for Amalia and not necessarily by Amalia.
 
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Quite smart to do so before starting her studies as she will have a lot less time on her hands than during a gap year.
 
In discussing Amalia's decision, the NOS mentions that -while Amalia indicated to be looking forward to a student life including 'jaarclubs' and everything that goes with being a member of a student corps- her father did so because it was expected and not because he wanted to; just like he went to Leiden University because of tradition and not necessarily because it was where he wanted to study.
 
I would advise the Princess to join a students' club indeed and not let wokeist folks decide for her.


By the way, it is true that the Amsterdamsch Studenten Corps is the biggest students' club, but there are a number of other major and old students' clubs like S.S.R.A. (Societas Studiosorum Reformatorum Amstelodamensis) established 1889 or the L.A.N.X. (Leonum Arida NutriX) established 1880. Princess Amalia's great-grandfather was a honorary member of this last students' club, by the way. (Picture).
 
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I don’t think it is ‘woke’ to find issue with representatives of this organisation mentioning -during a speech- that women are only good to serve as buckets for male reproductive cells and that all women are w####s. Neither do I think it is particulary woke to be appaled when representatives of this organisation hold a plea for ‘breaking women’s necks’ to put the male reproductive organ in it. Do you?

Obviously the princess is free to hang out in such an environment. Likewise people would be free to find that an undesirable environment and culture for a next head of state to be in. There is nothing woke about it. You were talking about dignity in relation to the skirt size of a Queen only two says ago. Where is the concern about dignity here?

Apparently the organization has a record number of applications this year, so these remarks must have served as a recruitment tool to some students and their parents.

—-
The King said in an interview of a much later date that he did not particulary like the atmosphere in the student society, despite having made some good friends there.
 
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Marengo said:
I don’t think it is ‘woke’ to find issue with representatives of this organisation mentioning...
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Oh My, what you cite, sounds not only not good but rather sick too!

But - and there is a "but" - sounds the idea, that the boys want the girls only as guests at 'some' of their parties and otherwise rather gone, really strange?

These dudes are really aggressive and not inviting at all towards the girls...

In Germany we have very old student corporations as well and they are mostly 'men only'. They are about heavy drinking and some rituals mostly...

They are so-to-say a 'safe space' for boys with a longer enduring puberty...
 
And yet Amalia thinks German boys have "better manners". Does any of this play in, perhaps?
 
Prinsara said:
And yet Amalia thinks German boys have "better manners". Does any of this play in, perhaps?
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No, I don't think so. She made that observation as a teenager comparing the more courteous German boys with the less courteous Dutch ones and will have limited knowledge of German student life.

And those student societies, which might seem contradictory, do place importance on courteous behavior towards women - much more so than in general society. However, 'among each other' and in specific situations (such as initiation rites) there is little left of that façade.
 
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