The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021


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If much of what we’ve seen was filled in by senior clerks, registrars etc at the Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital (and the signature of one of them is clear to see) then this copy obtained by TMZ (if genuine) may well have been filled in by hospital employees at the time.

Harry filled in and signed the birth certificate of his son Archie correctly only two years ago. He’s hardly likely to have forgotten his full name or how to fill in a BC in 24 months.
 
The certificate is legal, it seems.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/357055-su...rry-used-hrh-title-on-lilis-birth-certificate

Strange how every royal duke's legal name has included actual names before - Charles and William's for sure and I think Harry's, on Archie's certificate.

Personally, I think there just wasn't enough room for everything, so Harry and Meghan chose the part that mattered most to them. From all I've seen of them, they're desperate to present their children as prince and princesses - and if it isn't possible right now, they'll do everything to underline their princely heritage. Who knows, one day it might come in handy!

Like previous posters, I found Harry's first and last names on Lili's birth certificate very bazaar, from the empty middle name section to the His Royal Highness as the last name. For me, the "statement" from the Sussexes spokesperson just makes the whole situation more confusing.

According to a representative for the Sussexes, 'The Duke of Sussex' and 'His Royal Highness' is Harry's legal name, which is why it appeared it like that on the document.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Markle-bloody-woman-treated-staff-badly.html

The way that bloody woman treated my staff was merciless': Prince William slammed Meghan Markle when he was told everyone has difficult sister-in-laws, while Prince Harry's friends say she 'can be a 500% nightmare',


And you believe what the Daily Fail claims? Especially now that Harry is back in the UK (and thus reachable)?



Yes, it could be that William said that. Or he didn't. But to claim that now when Harry and William are about to meet is not really helpful, is it? Especially when Meghan is not a topic here except for those lousy and noisy tabloids who hunted Diana down till she was killed in an accident in the Pont de l'Alma-tunnel in Paris. So easy to make sure the country is not talking about Diana's fate but about Meghan's character. I mean, Corona managed to get IIRC 7 % of Britons to believe in their papers again! In 2017 a YouGov-poll found that 85% of Britons did not believe anything (51%) and "not much" (34%) from the tabloids and I just saw a report it's not much better now and that only because of Corona-reports.


But yeah, believe the fail...
 
As far as I can see, it isn't something Daily Mail actually wrote, it was taken from the book of the very pro-Sussex Robert Lacey whose bias is obvious - and it isn't in William's favour.
 
Like previous posters, I found Harry's first and last names on Lili's birth certificate very bazaar, from the empty middle name section to the His Royal Highness as the last name. For me, the "statement" from the Sussexes spokesperson just makes the whole situation more confusing.

but its not. His name is Henry Mountbatten Windsor. HRH And Duke of Sussex are parts of his title...
 

I still do not understand why many are claiming that the copy of the certificate published by TMZ is faked or illegal. As I previously wrote, I see no reason to question the authenticity of TMZ's copy because such "informational copies" of birth certificates are routinely obtainable for verification, by any member of the public, directly from the County of Santa Barbara Clerk-Recorder Division, according to the office's website.


According to a representative for the Sussexes, 'The Duke of Sussex' and 'His Royal Highness' is Harry's legal name, which is why it appeared it like that on the document.

As for Meghan, the spokesperson clarified that Meghan Markle's name was listed as 'Rachel Meghan Markle' as "that [is] her maiden name – the document required her maiden name."​

As the certificate specified "birth name" for both parents, shouldn't Harry have appeared as HRH Prince Henry of Wales?
 
He is still a Prince but he has the surname Mountbatten Windsor which he can use when required to give a surname. Surley if this certificate is genuine, he can sitll remember his own name and surname?
 
The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

The certificate is legal, it seems.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/357055-su...rry-used-hrh-title-on-lilis-birth-certificate

Strange how every royal duke's legal name has included actual names before - Charles and William's for sure and I think Harry's, on Archie's certificate.

Personally, I think there just wasn't enough room for everything, so Harry and Meghan chose the part that mattered most to them. From all I've seen of them, they're desperate to present their children as prince and princesses - and if it isn't possible right now, they'll do everything to underline their princely heritage. Who knows, one day it might come in handy!



If it is indeed legal, it’s a bit bizarre IMO.

Meghan put her birth name. Makes sense based on the requirements.

No where does any of Harry’s 4 names appear. Instead The Duke of Sussex- where I would think Harry would be. He put a title that wasn’t his at birth. No middle name- he has 3. HRH doesn’t make much sense to me as a last name either. It is one big emphasis on being royal though.
 
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If it is indeed legal, it’s bizarre.

Meghan put her birth name. Makes sense based on the requirements.

Harry put a title that wasn’t his at birth. No where do any of his 4 names appear. It is one big emphasis on his royal status though.

Strange.

Pretty much. HRH is indeed legally part of his name in the UK and was on his birth certificate. I get that it might be complicated because of Wales/Mountbatten-Windsor/Sussex not appearing on his own BC but surely there was a better way of identifying himself than just using HRH as a surname? And DOS as his first name with no middle names. If HRH members of his family can put M-W on a marriage certificate in this country surely he could use it in the US which doesn't acknowledge titles?

It seems Harry is very much trapping himself in the system.

Yes, it could be that William said that. Or he didn't. But to claim that now when Harry and William are about to meet is not really helpful, is it? Especially when Meghan is not a topic here except for those lousy and noisy tabloids who hunted Diana down till she was killed in an accident in the Pont de l'Alma-tunnel in Paris. So easy to make sure the country is not talking about Diana's fate but about Meghan's character. I mean, Corona managed to get IIRC 7 % of Britons to believe in their papers again! In 2017 a YouGov-poll found that 85% of Britons did not believe anything (51%) and "not much" (34%) from the tabloids and I just saw a report it's not much better now and that only because of Corona-reports.

It's yet another article by Lacey promoting the new chapters of his book, not a DM journalist.

The actual meat of the article is fairly Pro Sussex (from an author who's book was very pro Sussex) and basically advocates for the BRF to forgive them and give them everything they want or get called racist.
 
As far as I can see, it isn't something Daily Mail actually wrote, it was taken from the book of the very pro-Sussex Robert Lacey whose bias is obvious - and it isn't in William's favour.

The first edition was believed by some to be pro Sussex. I found it to be fairly judgemental towards both brother but reasonably fair.

However, the new paperback edition has twelve extra chapters added, which judging by what is written in the tabloids seems to be anti-Sussex. I will be buying and reading it anyway, not relying on short pieces published in the tabloid press, which is markedly biased.
 
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The first edition was believed by some to be pro Sussex. I found it to be fairly judgemental towards both brother but reasonably fair.


However, the new paperback edition has twelve extra chapters added, which judging by what is written in the tabloids seems to be anti-Sussex. I will be buying and reading it anyway, not relying on short pieces published in the tabloid press, which is markedly biased.
That was not the essence of my argument, though. I was pointing out that the parts that the poster disagreed with weren't written by actual Daily Mail writers but Lacey.

BTW, by the same tabloid publications I found it very pro-Sussex and laying all the responsibility for a future reconciliation on William, with clearly outlined obligations and a very faint "Harry was ready to recognize that he made some mistakes" for his brother. To me, his sympathies lie clearly with the Sussexes and reconciliation means - give them all that they want and you won't be called racist.
 
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Like previous posters, I found Harry's first and last names on Lili's birth certificate very bazaar, from the empty middle name section to the His Royal Highness as the last name. For me, the "statement" from the Sussexes spokesperson just makes the whole situation more confusing.



I have to agree. The Sussex statement was not helpful at all.
 
I have to agree. The Sussex statement was not helpful at all.

Is this a real statement by the Sussex household? Because it seems to me absolutely ludicrous to think that either HRH or D of Sussex are Harry's names. Surely to God, he knows that his names are Henry Charles Albert David and his surname is Mountbatten Windsor and that if he has to use a surname.. that's what he puts. DId he perhaps announce himself to a hospital clerk as "Hi, Im HRH, Duke of Sussex"??? I mean really?
 
The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

Is this a real statement by the Sussex household? Because it seems to me absolutely ludicrous to think that either HRH or D of Sussex are Harry's names. Surely to God, he knows that his names are Henry Charles Albert David and his surname is Mountbatten Windsor and that if he has to use a surname.. that's what he puts. DId he perhaps announce himself to a hospital clerk as "Hi, Im HRH, Duke of Sussex"??? I mean really?


No, it’s not really a formal statement, but rather just sources or some short sentences from the Sussexes spokesperson. That’s why I put quotation marks around it. Apologies if I caused any confusion :flowers:
 
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

Pretty much. HRH is indeed legally part of his name in the UK and was on his birth certificate. I get that it might be complicated because of Wales/Mountbatten-Windsor/Sussex not appearing on his own BC but surely there was a better way of identifying himself than just using HRH as a surname? And DOS as his first name with no middle names. If HRH members of his family can put M-W on a marriage certificate in this country surely he could use it in the US which doesn't acknowledge titles?

It seems Harry is very much trapping himself in the system.



It's yet another article by Lacey promoting the new chapters of his book, not a DM journalist.

The actual meat of the article is fairly Pro Sussex (from an author who's book was very pro Sussex) and basically advocates for the BRF to forgive them and give them everything they want or get called racist.



Agreed. I can get that there could be some confusion regarding the best route, but this is not a result I get at all. Especially since the US doesn’t recognize titles. And no actual names is just very strange. The royal emphasis is so glaring because that is literally ALL there is in Harry’s section.

I do agree that Lacey pushed hard the idea that the monarchy needs Harry and Meghan so badly that they should just give Meghan what she wants. And to avoid being seen as racist. It definitely seemed heavily skewed that it’s the royals job/duty to just give in.

He did also seem to think it imperative for both boys to just reconcile already- regardless of whatever the issues were/are. I think it is safe to say that whatever the roots- which pre-dated the exit- there are many more issues now.

What does make a certain level of sense to me is that the bullying allegation could be at least a source of the problems. We know an email went to Simon Case. William was certainly made aware. No real surprise if he and Harry had different reactions.
 
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No, it’s not really a formal statement, but rather just sources or some short sentences from the Sussexes spokesperson. That’s why I put quotation marks around it. Apologies if I caused any confusion :flowers:

thanks but presumably Harry has staff who put out these kind of statements or put them on his website. So one knows they are legitimately from Harry's household. I take it that someone called a paper or put this out?

Agreed. I can get that there could be some confusion regarding the best route, but this is not a result I get at all. Especially since the US doesn’t recognize titles. And no actual names is just very strange. The royal emphasis is so glaring because that is literally ALL there is in Harry’s section.

I do agree that Lacey pushed hard the idea that monarchy needs Harry and Meghan so badly that they should just give Meghan what she wants. And to avoid being seen as racist. It definitely seemed heavily skewed that it’s the royals job/duty to just give in.



What does make a certain level of sense to me is that the bullying allegation could be at least a source of the problems. We know an email went to Simon Case. William was certainly made aware. No real surprise if he and Harry had different reactions.
I think the past year has proved that the RF DOESNT need H and Meghan and that in fact what it needs is NO Meg and Harry. If they were to come back apart form their fans.. I can't imagine anyone welcoming them. And I think that William is the most annoyed about what has happened
 
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Agreed. I can get that there could be some confusion regarding the best route, but this is not a result I get at all. Especially since the US doesn’t recognize titles. And no actual names is just very strange. The royal emphasis is so glaring because that is literally ALL there is in Harry’s section.

I do agree that Lacey pushed hard the idea that monarchy needs Harry and Meghan so badly that they should just give Meghan what she wants. And to avoid being seen as racist. It definitely seemed heavily skewed that it’s the royals job/duty to just give in.

He did also seem to think it imperative for both boys to just reconcile already- regardless of whatever the issues were/are. I think it is safe to say that whatever the roots- which pre-dated the exit- there are many more issues now.

What does make a certain level of sense to me is that the bullying allegation could be at least a source of the problems. We know an email went to Simon Case. William was certainly made aware. No real surprise if he and Harry had different reactions.

With the bullying excerpt we at least know there's an investigation going on, that JK and Simon Case did email, that staff did leave, that they did split their households and stories were coming out that everyone was at odds. We can discuss his opinions and sources using those as a base. The rest of everything that's coming out is more open to interpretation and shows more of his own opinions on everything that was already on display in the last edition of the book.

I simply don't agree that the BRF "needs" the Sussexes and we've seen in the last year that even if they've been offered and given things (like Charles's money, the opportunity to live in SA, allegedly Dumbarton title) it doesn't stop them complaining about what they don't have or trying to play the race card anyway. e.g. If they do as he suggests and invite them to the Jubilee are they going to complain when the final balcony appearance is just HM/POW,DOC/DDOC and kids? That people weren't constantly asking if they're OK?

Trying to hash out their issues doesn't work if one side is worried everything's going to end up on the next Oprah/podcast/Gayle King report, especially if things get heated.

Appeasement doesn't seem to have worked. On a family level I hope they come to an entente and hopefully one day on a professional level but it's not going to be by inviting them back and giving them everything. HIHO still doesn't work for one thing.
 
You may well give your name as "Mr Smith" or even just as "Smith", but you wouldn't put that on your child's birth certificate. You would put "John Frederick Smith" (or whatever).
 
I have to agree that the "Firm" and the monarchy has pretty much rolled right along with no obvious gaps in it from the lack of having the Sussex couple to represent it. Of course, we also got hit by a pandemic and that affected everything but the reality, to me, is that the "Firm" may have dodged a bullet when Harry and Meghan left for greener pastures. If the two of them aren't suited for royal work and representation, it's best they've left now rather than down the line when the "Firm" really is going through a huge transition between monarchs.

It's preposterous to suggest that Harry and Meghan should be "coddled" and given what they want to placate them by the "Firm" and the monarchy. Why wouldn't this work? Frankly, because those that work for the "Firm" are all part of a team that works together where personal egos don't come into play. The focus is on the work the monarchy does for its people. I think we've had ample evidence that Harry and Meghan just aren't team player material.

As for reports, I'll believe what I know has actually come out of Harry and Meghan's mouth and there has been plenty of that to fall back on without bringing third party hearsay into it. If the entire press and tabloid media were smart, they'd just drop reporting on the Sussex couple realizing that they were removing the fuel that fires up controversy and keeps them in the headlines.
 
With the bullying excerpt we at least know there's an investigation going on, that JK and Simon Case did email, that staff did leave, that they did split their households and stories were coming out that everyone was at odds. We can discuss his opinions and sources using those as a base. The rest of everything that's coming out is more open to interpretation and shows more of his own opinions on everything that was already on display in the last edition of the book.

I simply don't agree that the BRF "needs" the Sussexes and we've seen in the last year that even if they've been offered and given things (like Charles's money, the opportunity to live in SA, allegedly Dumbarton title) it doesn't stop them complaining about what they don't have or trying to play the race card anyway. e.g. If they do as he suggests and invite them to the Jubilee are they going to complain when the final balcony appearance is just HM/POW,DOC/DDOC and kids? That people weren't constantly asking if they're OK?

Trying to hash out their issues doesn't work if one side is worried everything's going to end up on the next Oprah/podcast/Gayle King report, especially if things get heated.

Appeasement doesn't seem to have worked. On a family level I hope they come to an entente and hopefully one day on a professional level but it's not going to be by inviting them back and giving them everything. HIHO still doesn't work for one thing.

I agree! The overwhelmingly negative attitude of the people of the UK makes me think it impossible for the Sussexes to return to royal life. I cannot see Meghan wanting to live in the UK. Perhaps they are still hoping for HIHO and will only zip their mouths if they get this? I think the RF will do just fine without this extremely disloyal and whinging couple. They have made their bed.....

Boy, Harry is terrified about losing his style and title: putting HRH The Duke of Sussex as your name on a birth certificate ?:nonono:
 
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but its not. His name is Henry Mountbatten Windsor. HRH And Duke of Sussex are parts of his title...


In the UK if you have a title with a style, that is your name. You can change that for you and your children (see The Lady Louise Windsor instead of HRH princess Louise of Wessex) but you don't have to. Once you have a title, you can forget about your family's name if you prefer. If your name is not Earl Spencer or another case where family name and title are the same. So if Harry insists, he "is" HRH THe Duke of Sussex, as that is his title and a title is higher than your first name plus family name. Hence the "descendants of the queen and the Duke of Edinburgh use Mountbatten-Windsor, when they don't have a title or cannot use it". Harry has a title and if he wants to use it, he can. Just like that.
(And I don't understand why Kensington Palace was told to remove the HRH from Harry's title/name, as it wasn't removed thus far. At least it wasn't made public like it was for The Lady Louise Windsor and her brother, who uses his courtesy title of Viscount Severn instead of James Mountbatten-Windsor.

I think the past year has proved that the RF DOESNT need H and Meghan and that in fact what it needs is NO Meg and Harry. If they were to come back apart form their fans.. I can't imagine anyone welcoming them. And I think that William is the most annoyed about what has happened


You don't need to be a Sussex-fan, it's enough that you have the feeling the monarchy is more important than one member of the RF. So whe the media would be quiet, I think people would still like to see Harry back in the Uk as he is a part of their monarchy, if only for his birth. But I don't see the media stopping to harass him and Meghan, trying to influence the people against a prince of the blood Royal. That is the sad thing for me. You either think that the monarchy is important or you believe they are just something to spin your own tales about. But that has happened against the Duchess of Windsor, against Camilla, against Sarah York, but never before in such a way against a born prince. That is endangerin the monarchy, IMHO, not what Harry blabbed on American TV. It's hardly worse than what others have written before. But once someone claims: "I can't imagine someone welcoming the prince and his wife", you get rid of the whole principle of the monarchy and the blood Royal.
 
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In the UK if you have a title with a style, that is your name. You can change that for you and your children (see The Lady Louise Windsor instead of HRH princess Louise of Wessex) but you don't have to. Once you have a title, you can forget about your family's name if you prefer. If your name is not Earl Spencer or another case where family name and title are the same. So if Harry insists, he "is" HRH THe Duke of Sussex, as that is his title and a title is higher than your first name plus family name. Hence the "descendants of the queen and the Duke of Edinburgh use Mountbatten-Windsor, when they don't have a title or cannot use it". Harry has a title and if he wants to use it, he can. Just like that.

Except they're in the US. Where titles are not recognized for legal purposes, no matter how much Harry insists. Not to mention, it looks pretentious and desperate, not to mention HRH is neither a title nor a name.
 
This is an interesting article about immigration law and titles in the US:

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/03/harry-meghan-royal-titles-and-u-s-immigration-law/

Excellent article and really goes into details of what Harry needs to permanently live in the US. I don't think that he'll apply for citizenship though. His status, rank and titles and styles are just too important to his image to lose them.

Except they're in the US. Where titles are not recognized for legal purposes, no matter how much Harry insists. Not to mention, it looks pretentious and desperate, not to mention HRH is neither a title nor a name.

Other than his titles and styles, Harry really doesn't have much else to really offer anything of merit to really make a career out of. He's dependent on who he is known as more than what he is known for.
 
To use a football analogy, no one player is bigger than the team. One player may leave, the club will go on. Or one actor may leave a popular TV series, but the series will go on.


But that has happened against the Duchess of Windsor, against Camilla, against Sarah York, but never before in such a way against a born prince. That is endangering the monarchy, IMHO, not what Harry blabbed on American TV. It's hardly worse than what others have written before. But once someone claims: "I can't imagine someone welcoming the prince and his wife", you get rid of the whole principle of the monarchy and the blood Royal.


Without wanting to write an essay about John Locke's social contract, we got past that in 1688. Being a "born prince" of the "blood royal" doesn't entitle you to anything if you break your contract with the people and the country. No Oprah interviews in the 17th century, obviously, but I'm pretty sure that what Harry's done would class as breaking his contract with the people and the country. That doesn't endanger the monarchy, only the position of the one individual in question.


And the press have had plenty to say about Prince Andrew, to give just one example.
 
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To use a football analogy, no one player is bigger than the team. One player may leave, the club will go on. Or one actor may leave a popular TV series, but the series will go on.





Without wanting to write an essay about John Locke's social contract, we got past that in 1688. Being a "born prince" of the "blood royal" doesn't entitle you to anything if you break your contract with the people and the country. No Oprah interviews in the 17th century, obviously, but I'm pretty sure that what Harry's done would class as breaking his contract with the people and the country. That doesn't endanger the monarchy, only the position of the one individual in question.
Yes, Harry is the one who walked out, so why would he think that he gets to walk bak in again???

Except they're in the US. Where titles are not recognized for legal purposes, no matter how much Harry insists. Not to mention, it looks pretentious and desperate, not to mention HRH is neither a title nor a name.

If he really did put down HRH or Duke of Sussex as his name, he's really getting some weird ideas. of course it is not a name... He has a name for situations where (since he lives in a republic) he would not have his title recognized. If he really said to some hospital clerk on coming in with Meghan "Im HRH the Duke of Sussex" well words fail me.
 
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You don't need to be a Sussex-fan, it's enough that you have the feeling the monarchy is more important than one member of the RF. So whe the media would be quiet, I think people would still like to see Harry back in the Uk as he is a part of their monarchy, if only for his birth. But I don't see the media stopping to harass him and Meghan, trying to influence the people against a prince of the blood Royal. That is the sad thing for me. You either think that the monarchy is important or you believe they are just something to spin your own tales about. But that has happened against the Duchess of Windsor, against Camilla, against Sarah York, but never before in such a way against a born prince. That is endangerin the monarchy, IMHO, not what Harry blabbed on American TV. It's hardly worse than what others have written before. But once someone claims: "I can't imagine someone welcoming the prince and his wife", you get rid of the whole principle of the monarchy and the blood Royal.

No one has taken anything away from Harry, he still legally has HRH in the UK and most likely always will. We are simply suggesting there was another way of writing his own name (with or without Prince, Duke, HRH) that wasn't quite so silly as only writing "Duke of Sussex HRH" in the US of all places which doesn't recognise titles, styles and fought a war not to against the UK specifically.

I think the constitutional Monarchy is important but I don't believe the specialness of royal blood specifically.

Harry has endangered the monarchy by making a lot of what have been moved to be false or exaggerated accusations on TV which could theoretically bolster calls for a republic in the future if the Firm and/or members of it is deemed to be racist (among many other things) in a multicultural society. Something many members of his family were working hard to show connections with whilst he was getting into slur scandals etc. I believe that's more of a potential danger than any specific titles Harry may or may not use. More to the point he left and in a way guaranteed to make a huge fuss, so it's not surprising his family and the country have mixed feelings about him right now.

The media have always written against blood members of the family, and sometimes written glowing things about them as well. No one in the public eye is ever going to have 100% adoring press 100% of the time, even HM.
 
The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

I have to agree that the "Firm" and the monarchy has pretty much rolled right along with no obvious gaps in it from the lack of having the Sussex couple to represent it. Of course, we also got hit by a pandemic and that affected everything but the reality, to me, is that the "Firm" may have dodged a bullet when Harry and Meghan left for greener pastures. If the two of them aren't suited for royal work and representation, it's best they've left now rather than down the line when the "Firm" really is going through a huge transition between monarchs.



It's preposterous to suggest that Harry and Meghan should be "coddled" and given what they want to placate them by the "Firm" and the monarchy. Why wouldn't this work? Frankly, because those that work for the "Firm" are all part of a team that works together where personal egos don't come into play. The focus is on the work the monarchy does for its people. I think we've had ample evidence that Harry and Meghan just aren't team player material.

.


In one of the articles this week there was a source that said: Harry and Meghan- but especially Meghan- didn’t WANT to make things work. That feeds into what you said about them not being team players. It was a POV I found believable enough IMO. It was basically their way or the highway from what we’ve seen and heard from them.

Fact of the matter is: Meghan was a working member of the BRF for less than 2 years. That’s a pretty short period of time.

And-while they can’t decide just how committed they ever were- Harry at one point in the interview said they’d been thinking of leaving/changing things for 2 years before they left. So- roughly January 2018. Very much Pre wedding and barely past Meghan’s interview where she declared herself ready to just jump in. It’s all very weird. They accepted a lot of nice things for 2 such apparently uncommitted people. If you take that version of events, they also didn’t really seem to try at all.

Agreed- think the BRF has done just fine without them.

I think it would have been nice if it had worked out, of course. Sure- a diverse family looks good. Both had some good projects. The help in general would have been welcome. But if this is the way things were going to end up, I suppose better sooner rather than later.

It also would have been nice if their exit had been handled with a shred of professionalism, privacy, and maturity, but it wasn’t.

And- so with all that- I don’t at all agree with Lacey that the family should just appease them and give them what they want. Whatever exactly that is now.
 
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To use a football analogy, no one player is bigger than the team. One player may leave, the club will go on. Or one actor may leave a popular TV series, but the series will go on.

To use another sports analogy and quote Herb Brooks, "the name on the front is a HELL of a lot more important than the name on the back". Also “You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone".

If someone doesn't understand those simple concepts or isn't willing to roll with them, then someone is not a team player. And out you go. (But please don't keep referring to your former team to make a new living.)
 
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I
And- so with all that- I don’t at all agree with Lacey that the family should just appease them and give them what they want. Whatever exactly that is now.

I truly believe that no matter what they were given they would never have been happy because what they wanted was to use their titles to make money, do a bit of royal work, STILL draw money from the taxpayer and from Charles.. and generally do what they liked.. with no-one ever arguing with them.
I honestly thought that the queen looked very tired at the wedding, and perhaps she was beginning to realise that this was the case with them.. that they were always asking for something more.
 
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