The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[gerry]

Well, it's clear to me, they have already relocated to Canada.
It's a fact, we might just as well accept it. - The Canadian reaction will be interesting though!

As for the security bill: Canada will foot most of the bill, at least until the status and role of the Sussexes has been resolved. Until then H&M are still high ranking members of the BRF and, we must assume, welcome visitors to Canada... As such it's the duty of Canada to protect them, as they would with other foreign high ranking guests. Or for that matter any other visitor who they feel is in need of extra protection.
And the royal protection officers will remain in place - again at least until this situation has been resolved.

H&M may be dancing around with their feet in their mouths, but for the time being they are still who they are: Senior royals.

Muhler, you are absolutely correct that they have already relocated to Canada. The clue for me was the dogs: their presence was signalled by one of the newspaper reports generated by the CTV journalist who was out taking a selfie that the Duchess helped them take. International canine transportation is notoriously difficult and importation of dogs to Britain extremely so: the dogs are back home in Canada (forgive me if I am repeating what others may have said as I have not read through all 15 pages of post in the past 24 hours). If I recall correctly, on previous visits to Toronto when he was still courting Meghan, Prince Harry had his own security but the RCMP is involved because of firearm regulations in this country and because the prince is a senior royal. 'Stepping back' and security implications are of course part of what is being negotiated at BP, as we all know; what I will find fascinating is the constitutional implication of a Prince of the Blood wanting to reside in Canada. I don't think he will require an immigration visa (very hard to get, as many have already pointed out) but rather I am willing to bet that he and his family will be given diplomatic status by the Protocol office in Ottawa with the option to extend after the five years that FO postings usually last. This solution is simple, straightforward and will drive the Daily Fail bonkers. Their reporters will have to buy cold weather gear and get used to Canadian English. The Prince, by the way, would do well to brush up on his French which, contrary to what one poster wrote, is not a Canadian idiosyncracy but rather one of Canada's two official languages. Otherwise, you miss a lot of really good jokes and even better food https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/23/dining/restaurant-lexpress-montreal.html

 

[ACO]

So Monday will be a big day. I wonder if we will see them all tomorrow at church.

 

[Somebody]

It's different in Canada. (I'm aware of the US system as I have an American parent and I actually am a dual citizen of Canada & the US although I was born in Canada and have never lived there.)

In Canada you have to file the permanent residency application FIRST in order to stay beyond 5 months (otherwise you are illegal). While your application is in process, you are allowed to live here (it can take several years) but you CANNOT legally make any money in Canada until status is finally granted. My son-in-law is a permanent resident (granted it through my daughter's spousal sponsorship) and my daughter worked for a Canadian immigration lawyer. It took him almost 4 years to be approved and earn the right to legally earn money here.

Thanks. In that case I don't understand the previous part about how someone with a work permit (who is clearly legally living in Canada and earning money) is not a permanent resident; is that person expected to leave every 5 months as if he/she were a visitor? Or is that person also a permanent resident in contrast to what you stated before (or at least in contrast in how I interpreted what you wrote)? So, basically, what is the immigration status as that person is neither a permanent resident nor a visitor in my book...

 

[dorop]

Harry was asked the question by his good friend reporter. The same one who is running around as their mouthpiece now. This topic was completely avoidable imo. Again- who care about the rumors. No need to confirm. It was no one’s business.

There’s talking about mental health to friends, family and counselors- and there’s whining and clearly trying to get sympathy from a world wide audience that you’re miserable and don’t get along with your brother. That’s all that was in my view. It was a warm up for this announcement.

Anyway- that’s a bit OT- though I think that interview was all about getting sympathy in advance for this move.

Completely agree. I'm reading that the domain for their website was purchased in March 2019. That they've been speaking with lawyers and PR people in the US over the past 9-10 months. I never felt comfortable about those personal questions in the documentary, and no way do I believe Bradby asked them without prior arrangement. Whole thing was a PR exercise to garner sympathy and portray them as fragile and persecuted. So that could be their excuse for stepping back. Poor Harry and Meghan! Their mental health is at stake! Of course they should go, more power to them!

Now comes the Sussex Royal statement and website which are all about being able to earn money the way they want and not have oversight by the powers that be. Quite a different tune. I think this was all very long in the planning. I'm getting more cynical by the day.

 

[Denville]

Muhler, you are absolutely correct that they have already relocated to Canada. The clue for me was the dogs: their presence was signalled by one of the newspaper reports generated by the CTV journalist who was out taking a selfie that the Duchess helped them take. International canine transportation is notoriously difficult and importation of dogs to Britain extremely so: the dogs are back home in Canada (forgive me if I am repeating what others may have said as I have not read through all 15 pages of post in the past 24 hours). If I recall correctly, on previous visits to Toronto when he was still courting Meghan, Prince Harry had his own security but the RCMP is involved because of firearm regulations in this country and because the prince is a senior royal. 'Stepping back' and security implications are of course part of what is being negotiated at BP, as we all know; what I will find fascinating is the constitutional implication of a Prince of the Blood wanting to reside in Canada. I don't think he will require an immigration visa (very hard to get, as many have already pointed out) but rather I am willing to bet that he and his family will be given diplomatic status by the Protocol office in Ottawa with the option to extend after the five years that FO postings usually last. This solution is simple, straightforward and will drive the Daily Fail bonkers. Their reporters will have to buy cold weather gear and get used to Canadian English. The Prince, by the way, would do well to brush up on his French which, contrary to what one poster wrote, is not a Canadian idiosyncracy but rather one of Canada's two official languages. Otherwise, you miss a lot of really good jokes and even better food https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/23/dining/restaurant-lexpress-montreal.html

but he doesn't want to reside in Canada, does he? ITs to divide tehir time between the UK and N America.. which could entail trips to the USA for making money in some way.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Apparently the Obama's have released a statement denying that they even gave any advice to Harry and Meghan. It is extremely detailed and talks about the handful of times they have interacted with them. It ends by talking about their friendship with Will and Kate.

So, in the last two days Oprah and the Obama's have come out and distanced themselves for the Sussex duo. This does not bode well for the Sussex "brand"

They haven’t released any statement. It’s sources talking to sources, being reported in tabloids.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Monday will be a big day. I hope everything will be settled for all involved. For the title pull - unless the Sussexes committed a crime and were convicted, no, and not with Andrew still having his and for worse things. The lawsuit still goes forward and dropping it is not a condition for concessions. It's sad that many are demanding their utter destruction because they don't want to play the media game. It's not about not wanting to do royal work. This has been the works for months and BP and CH were in the loop. Also CNN just reported this new plan that is being purposed is to be implemented for future generations of royals who are not direct line heirs (like Charlotte and Louis) if they want to step down. Also CNN reported Meghan would be on the conference call Monday. This will take time. Let's halt the construction of the literal scaffold for Harry and Meghan and see what shakes out.

 

[tommy100]

Being allowed to keep their titles and being allowed to use their titles in commercial ventures are different things IMO

 

[Lumutqueen]

Being allowed to keep their titles and being allowed to use their titles in commercial ventures are different things IMO

But, for the sake of argument, when doing any commercial venture they used Henry and Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. Would people be just as willing to work with them? I’m seeing that this might be the way forward.

 

[Eskimo]

They haven’t released any statement. It’s sources talking to sources, being reported in tabloids.

Did not realize that this just more speculation

 

[Denville]

Could somebody please tell me why Harry should be paid if he wants to move away from the family and be financially independent.
If they wish to partially remain and carry out duties , it will be difficult to then earn a private income. Not impossible but not easy.
It is also quite obvious that a lot of this has been planned, there could be other things all waiting to come out.

Planned but not that well, I think. I think that the idea of makng their own money has come from Meghan.. who has been accustomed to making her own money since girlhood. but it IS hard work and they clearly want the buffer of money form the Duchy.

 

[Fem]

Personally I think it looks really bad that Meghan isn't there. I've wondered why she isn't there. Is she so worried about the media blow back in the UK to their announcement she can't even stay there? Afraid to meet with the other royals and hear from them directly? Busy lining up commercial opportunities?

As she and Harry don't seem to want an entirely private life does she not understand that public perception is important for their new role? Most of the criticism I've seen is not that they want to change their role but the way they've gone about it.

In the past, I've defended both of them but I'm very disappointed in them.

Yeah, I completely don't understand why they didn't bring Archie to the UK and just stayed here until the whole issue is resolved. This is not only a professional, work matter, but this is her husband's (and hers!) family. I doubt they were afraid of papparazzi taking pictures - did we get even one after the wedding? They would be completely safe either in Norfolk or Windsor. But knowing what we know about Meghan's family, they really don't care that much about working through stuff.

I hoped everything will be fine, but it had to blow up eventually. I mean, come on, she didn't have any other family at her wedding than her mother? And it's not like the wedding was small, it was hundreds of guests and only one family member? I'm not surprised at all though that Harry will go to the end of the earth for the woman he loves and their children. Not at all. I wish them all the best, but I hope we won't see them as working royals anymore. This mess was enough.

 

[Eskimo]

But, for the sake of argument, when doing any commercial venture they used Henry and Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. Would people be just as willing to work with them? I’m seeing that this might be the way forward.

I do not think anyone can object to them using Harry and Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor for commercial gain. It is their name. However, I do not think that most of the people wanting to hire them for these ventures want Harry and Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor, they want TRH The Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

 

[wyevale]

being allowed to use their titles in commercial ventures

The Firm's lawyers and the Attorney General will stitch together a watertight contract to prevent so tawdry a prospect - they may get away with 'Brand Sussex', but 'Sussex Royal', NEVER...

 

[suztav]

If all of this wasn’t bad enough, the simple fact that Meghan returned for one day and then ran back to Canada made it look even worse. I’d have some sympathy is she stayed around to plead her case to the Queen. But this? No!

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Being allowed to keep their titles and being allowed to use their titles in commercial ventures are different things IMO

Absolutely!!! This is one of my concerns.

 

[Eskimo]

The Firm's lawyers and the Attorney General will stitch together a watertight contract to prevent so tawdry a prospect - they may get away with 'Brand Sussex', but 'Sussex Royal', NEVER...

Tying this back to my first post on this forum.....I believe that the BRF will give in and let them use the SussexRoyal brand, until a major scandal occurs (like the one with Andrew) and by them the damage to the institution will have been done

 

[duchessrachel]

Maybe they need to get exactly what they ask for To come back to reality : Be Free! Be Financially independent! Support the Queen! Ok, let’s go that


No Royal money so find jobs. no option as to do Royal duties or not because your title gone and Support the Queen sitting on your couch in front of the TV Like the common British citizen

Be careful what you for Sussex’s...

Very well said!!!

Should Harry & Meghan continue to receive an income from the Duchy of Cornwall?

Should 13%
Should not 63%
Don’t know 24%

YouGov Jan 9

How much does the Royal family pay attention to these polls? I hope they are paying attention to this one.

If Meghan and Harry will leave, free to do whatever they want, with everything they have now, not paying for Frogmore and still getting public money will be the first time in my life when I will be against the british monarchy. Sure, let's pay for the royal family, I don't mind at all. But pay for celebrities living in another country? Just no.

I have been a follower of the British Royal family since I was 9 years old, and I agree with you. I think there needs to be serious "punishment" (that is not the word but I can't think of one) of H & M for their arrogance.

I understand your opinion, but honestly too many of the royals have done whatever he of she wanted during the last decades. HM was not able to control hr family , many probelms have risen from that.
Saying HM is the boss is the theory.
One can only hope that Charles takes over and is more lucky dealing within the family/firm.
Andrew is now haooy at home as all attention is now drawn on the asussexes, the inly winner of the new problem. But the problem with Andrew is another proof for HM unability to be "the boss".

I agree that it seems HM does seems to let things rock on. I hope she will really stand up to H & M. I am afraid if she does not, this may be the beginning of the end of the monarchy (as another poster stated), and not because of how H & M are acting, but because of the failure to deal with misbehavior in an example-making way.

 

[Soula]

Apparently the Obama's have released a statement denying that they even gave any advice to Harry and Meghan. It is extremely detailed and talks about the handful of times they have interacted with them. It ends by talking about their friendship with Will and Kate.

So, in the last two days Oprah and the Obama's have come out and distanced themselves for the Sussex duo. This does not bode well for the Sussex "brand"

That is really interesting but not unexpected although it is playing out much quicker than I had thought. They have underestimated the universal respect for the Queen and overestimated their importance.

The Obama's in particular know the meaning of 'Duty'. H & M do not and selfishness is rarely rewarded in the long run.

 

[LadyGlendower]

Apparently the Obama's have released a statement denying that they even gave any advice to Harry and Meghan. It is extremely detailed and talks about the handful of times they have interacted with them. It ends by talking about their friendship with Will and Kate.

So, in the last two days Oprah and the Obama's have come out and distanced themselves for the Sussex duo. This does not bode well for the Sussex "brand"

According to People mag, in November Meghan visited at Frogmore with an extremely high profile US politician who also happens to have a foundation that bears her surname. At the time I wrote this off as Meghan naturally wanting to rub shoulders with high-profile people.

If, and its a BIG if, she took advice from this particular person, heaven help her. If you don't know who it is, just take a wild guess and look it up.

I cant find an online reference on anything from the Obamas---can you give us a news source. Thanks

 

[tommy100]

If I were the Queen (there's a fun game) I'd be suggesting:

-they will continue to have funding for UK life and UK office (which I imagine will be much reduced)
-when in UK and doing public duties they will be able to use HRH Duke/Duchess of Sussex
-they will have usual royal police protection in UK
-probably wouldn't undertake overseas visits but will support patronages in the UK
-meet cost of 6 return flights from wherever they settle to UK each year (Trooping, Christmas, Easter and handful of others)

-Charles to provide six figure amount as personal living allowance (but much less than what they get now and not listed under official expenditure but from Charles own private spending)
-Harry and Meghan to use personal funds to pay for a North America home
-for anything other than approved events (requiring approval from BP) they will use either Mr & Mrs Mountbatten-Windsor or Mr & Mrs Sussex (their choice of which) only
-NDA preventing them talking about RF and its workings
-Couple meet North America security costs privately

 

[Sterling3763]

Like many I have problems with several ways that the Sussexes went about this change to their rolls, most notably:

• announcing without buy-in from the Queen
• leaving Archie in Canada, seemingly as a bargaining chip.

But, I think some folks have gone completely overboard in the vitriol. As others, such as iluvberte, have noted it's too late for them to lose their peerages. It would take an act of parliament for that to occur. And it would be very strange for Harry to lose his HRH given that he remains the grandson of the monarch (and eventually the son of a king). It would also, optically, look strange for Harry to lose his style when Andrew has not.

In a similar vein, Andrew has essentially retired (been driven out?) of public duties. I haven't seen a similar stampede to remove his peerages, styles, and public funding.

In the end, these people are a family. Despite the frustrations they may feel with each other, they will work out some amicable compromise.

I expect Harry and Meagan will retain their titles, but be severely restricted in their ability to use them in any commercial endeavor. From the way this has played out, (despite their insistence that they want to continue to serve) it's not entirely clear that they want to remain even part time in the UK. Regardless, they'll likely have to pay for the renovations to Frogmore and (if they continue to reside there) pay rent moving forward. They'll only get police protection when officially working from the crown.

 

[Zaira]

Apparently the Obama's have released a statement denying that they even gave any advice to Harry and Meghan. It is extremely detailed and talks about the handful of times they have interacted with them. It ends by talking about their friendship with Will and Kate.

So, in the last two days Oprah and the Obama's have come out and distanced themselves for the Sussex duo. This does not bode well for the Sussex "brand"

What statement from the Obamas? They did not release an official statement. People has a sourced story that is it. Lets pls be accurate in our posting. And the People story is simply refuting tabloid lies which is their right. No matter how much I may like someone, I wouldnt want to be dragged into an international situation I actually have no part in.

The tabs have now dragged Elton in.

Again, the media is throwing everything at the wall.

 

[Somebody]

According to People mag, in November Meghan visited at Frogmore with an extremely high profile US politician who also happens to have a foundation that bears her surname. At the time I wrote this off as Meghan naturally wanting to rub shoulders with high-profile people.

If, and its a BIG if, she took advice from this particular person, heaven help her. If you don't know who it is, just take a wild guess and look it up.

I cant find an online reference on anything from the Obamas---can you give us a news source. Thanks

This is what pops up if I type 'Obama Sussex' in my search engine: ET Canada

This article in The Telegraph mentions the Foundations of the Clintons, Obamas and Gates families as reference points for the Sussex Royal foundation.

 

[Fem]

I have been a follower of the British Royal family since I was 9 years old, and I agree with you. I think there needs to be serious "punishment" (that is not the word but I can't think of one) of H & M for their arrogance.

I too think "punishment" is the wrong word - consequences?

 

[tommy100]

https://etcanada.com/news/572494/mi...ven-advice-to-the-duke-and-duchess-of-sussex/

The Obama's have btw let it be known they did not advise Meghan and Harry

 

[Muhler]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216121535741689856

Sunday Times has exclusive comment from William in their edition tomorrow

The Duke of Cambridge speaks of his “sadness” at the broken bond with Prince Harry and his sorrow that the royal family is no longer a “team”. Prince William: “I’ve put my arm around my brother all our lives and I can’t do that anymore...I’m sad about that.”

If that's a quote, then wow! Double wow!!

 

[duchessrachel]

It's sad for Harry and I am not saying this out of dislike for Meghan either, per se, but nothing about their marriage so far makes me think Meghan is a 'team' player, loves and supports Harry by encouraging his interests and talents, looking out for his mental health, keeping him close to those who love him. Another poster mentioned that if Harry's memories of his mother's death are triggered by the camera flashes, why not stay away from the lights and cameras? Instead, they are seeking the spotlight for their own global brand. And I agree with other posters who've said that this path seems to be Meghan's idea, not Harry's - he was interested in Africa, the Invictus Games, not necessarily global celebrityhood.

Meghan may not have the experience of being part of a functional extended family, so she finds it easy to step out on her own. But Harry has lived in England all his life, and moving to a new country away from all family except one's spouse is challenging even for people who are totally emotionally healthy. So I hope, if Canada is the country they choose, they find a comfortable home here, but honestly I don't think any of this bodes well for a lasting marriage.

I really do feel sorry for Harry in all this. However, he and she may just have to get cut off financially for Harry to ever wake up and smell the coffee.
I hope BP does something that will wake him up. It takes tough love many times. [...]I think he has never successfully dealt with his mother's death, and he may never. It may always be a work in progress for him, and he needs his family around him. Harry seemed to be at the best place he had ever been just before he met Meghan when he spoke of getting counseling due to William's encouragement. Now he and William appear to be at odds he looks like an unhappy man almost every time I see him. I really wish she would be a team player, but I don't think that will ever happen.

That assumes the York girls would even want to step in. They’ve built lives outside of being FT members of the Firm. PT or FT- it’s presumptuous to assume they want to step in because Harry and Meghan decided not to live up to the commitment they made.

I just thought at one point they had expressed an interest. If they did not, then that is presumptuous of me.

 

[Countessmeout]

I do not think anyone can object to them using Harry and Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor for commercial gain. It is their name. However, I do not think that most of the people wanting to hire them for these ventures want Harry and Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor, they want TRH The Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

The reality is whether they call themselves Harry and Meghan Mountbatten Windsor, or evening Sussex as a last name, businesses will want them.

People don’t have short memories. Harry is not a German prince or prince of a monarchy few people know of. Harry and Meghan are both already a brand. Harry the son of Diana and former party prince. Meghan as the birscial actress who married a prince. Anyone who thinks forcing them not to use their titles will stop them cashing in on who they are is dillusional at best.

In reality this scandal will help. Businesses won’t care if Harry is qualified, they want his fame and name even sans title. All this did is make Harry and Meghan even more recognizable. Recognition is money.

I’d be shocked if Harry and Meghan, whatever their name or title don’t already have deals lined up. If they plan on living in Canada and working even more sign they aren’t just jumping in blind and hoping to work it out. Only thing needing worked out is on the royal side.

 

[Betsypaige]

I agree that it seems HM does seems to let things rock on. I hope she will really stand up to H & M. I am afraid if she does not, this may be the beginning of the end of the monarchy (as another poster stated), and not because of how H & M are acting, but because of the failure to deal with misbehavior in an example-making way.

I think this is a huge stretch ....I don’t expect the Queen to go all scorched earth on H and M - it’s STILL her grandson. Same with Charles. I don’t think they can afford to cave to the Sussexes, but there must be a middle ground, and I believe they’ll find it. The monarchy has survived for 1000 years, and survived far worse than this.