The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: April - August 2023

[HRHTalDuchess]

Whatever it is, both Harry and Meghan haven been harassed and gaslit enough...at least he tried to do something. The case made me realize just how low the media will go just to get a story...

Well the "truth" might be not the one you're waiting for lol

 

[Sunnystar]

Whatever it is, both Harry and Meghan haven been harassed and gaslighted enough...at least he tried to do something. The case made me realize just how low the media will go just to get a story...

Except this case has to do with phone hacking that took place a decade before he met Meghan, so how exactly has this demonstrated how she has been harassed or gaslit?

No offense, but the phone hacking story has been around over a dozen years now and it's only now that you are realizing the lows to which the media will sink?

 

[yukari]

Okay, the Guardian has these:

‘Grotesque and sadistic’: Prince Harry’s key phone-hacking claims

(...)

“I remember speaking to my brother and saying something along the lines of ‘enough of this, I want to get permission to push for a resolution to our phone-hacking claims and a formal apology from Murdoch before any of his people are allowed anywhere near the wedding [to Meghan in 2018]’ or words to that effect.

“I felt very angry about his newspapers’ appalling treatment of my wife and frustrated that nothing had been resolved on the phone-hacking front during the previous 12 months, and I thought (naively perhaps) that this might prove the perfect opportunity to air our grievances and force a resolution to our phone-hacking claims that had,(...)

“William was very understanding and supportive and agreed that we needed to do it. He therefore suggested that I seek permission from ‘granny’.

“I spoke to her shortly afterwards and said something along the lines of ‘are you happy for me to push this forward, do I have your permission?’ and she said ‘yes’ …(...)

So the conversation happened in 2017, but at that time he's already feeling frustrated that "nothing had been resolved on the phone-hacking front during the previous 12 months", meaning there's already ongoing process to pursue it since 2016?

At least we have the answer with his "this might prove the perfect opportunity to air our grievances".

(...)

“Judging by Ms [Maxine] Mossman’s [a lawyer representing Murdoch’s News Group Newspapers] witness statement, my*brother appeared to know an awful lot more than I did on the subject of phone hacking although he did not tell me if that was the case.

“However, NGN still settled his claim for a huge sum of money in 2020 without subjecting him to a similar strike-out application, without any of the public being told, and seemingly with some favourable deal in return for him going ‘quietly’ so to speak.

“This goes to prove the existence of this secret agreement between the institution and senior executives at NGN – if it wasn’t in place then why on earth did William wait until 2019 to bring his claim in circumstances where our two private secretaries brought and settled claims back in 2012, and where he knew far more about the matter back then than I did, and also why didn’t NGN test its limitation argument against him?”

(...)

Er, you know Harold, there's a difference of 4 years between 2019 and 2023 and (that if William did fill the lawsuit in 2019 and not earlier, since according to Telegraph's article, 2019 was the year Harry parted way with William, meaning the lawsuit was already in progress -- but again, selective memory?) and considering the statute of limitation is 6 years, 4 years is a big difference.

And the fact that William settled in 2020 proves nothing of such "secret agreement". Remember what happened in 2020, Harold? Your manifesto and dramatic exit? Covid-19? Does it ring a bell? What if William just didn't want to add a court battle circus into his pot? Or maybe the court also advised/pushed for settlement, similar to what it did to your other case against ANL on the security lawsuit reporting, which you declined, but unlike you, William accepted because he didn't want circus?

Was there a secret deal between royal family and Murdoch’s media empire?

(...)

Harry has not provided any evidence of the alleged agreement, although if such a sensitive arrangement was made then it is possible that it was verbal rather than on paper.

Even Harry is unsure who told him about the supposed deal. According to legal filings, the royal was informed of the deal’s existence alongside his brother at some point in 2012. He says this was by the royal family’s solicitor Gerrard Tyrrell, of Harbottle & Lewis, or someone else from within the institution of the monarchy.

(...)

Oh dear, don't tell me it's the infamous Chinese Whisperer

(I do want to ask him though, was he or wasn't he under influence of drug when he's being told/heard about such "secret agreement")

 

[tommy100]

If the judge in confused by the "inconsistencies" it doesn't bode well. It sounds to me as if Harry is saying he knew about the deal when it was first made but now claims he didn't understand its implications until much later. I wonder what legal advice Harry got, did they urge him not to pursue the case or do they feel they have a really strong case.

I'm not a legal expert but I think the law won't really care about that - if Harry acknowledges there was a deal, unless he claims and can prove he was tricked or misled about what it meant then the simple fact is he knew there was a deal but didn't know what it mean is on him not the law. Likewise mentioning William's deal doesn't really help as far as I can see as it just proves he knew a settlement could be done.

 

[HRHTalDuchess]

It seems as many think that Harry is making this stuff up? That his concerns or the abuse he has suffered are not real, and that this should be ignored. That's the classic narcissistic playbook. If these things happened to me, I would not be silent either...

Even if Harry does not win his case, he has made the public aware of the inner workings of the RF and the press. Horrific. He might not be believed now, but history has a funny way of repeating itself. This case will be referenced one day when another person in the RF falls victim to the complicated relationship between the Palace and the Press.

Except this case has to do with phone hacking that took place a decade before he met Meghan, so how exactly has this demonstrated how she has been harassed or gaslit?

No offense, but the phone hacking story has been around over a dozen years now and it's only now that you are realizing the lows to which the media will sink?

 

[Hallo girl]

It seems as many think that Harry is making this stuff up? That his concerns or the abuse he has suffered are not real, and that this should be ignored. That's the classic narcissistic playbook. If these things happened to me, I would not be silent either...

Even if Harry does not win his case, he has made the public aware of the inner workings of the RF and the press. Horrific. He might not be believed now, but history has a funny way of repeating itself. This case will be referenced one day when another person in the RF falls victim to the complicated relationship between the Palace and the Press.

I do not think anybody is doubting that there was an issue with phone hacking, we all read about it at the time. There were horror stories with regards private individuals.
For me some of the things he is saying about press/ royal relationship is being said without proof. William decided to settle out of court, that is not a crime, lots of people do it for a variety of reasons, it does not infer some kind of illicit relationship between the palace and the press.

Harry once again appears to be blaming everybody else in his life, the palace, his father, brother, the institution, I think he might even be blaming the Queen at one point.
This is where he loses sympathy , goes in with his size 9's and makes statements without any hard evidence , but he might back track and blame the press for saying the wrong thing. He has history of doing that.

Even the comment that William settled for a large amount of money was unnecessary, I am not sure if he had any right to mention William at all but he could have kept it at he settled out of court.

Even the judge appears to suggest there is a problem with the timeline.

The press and the palace need each other, but William has also shown he will draw a line. In an interview he spoke about lines being crossed.

 

[Hallo girl]

I believe an e mail from a palace employee to Harry has been revealed, could somebody who knows about these things explain to me why it is alright for Harry to reveal an e mail sent to him but there has been a previous court case about quotes from a letter to Thomas Markle where it was said the letter was the property of the writer. So why is the e mail not the property of the sender.

 

[Katariina]

It seems as many think that Harry is making this stuff up? That his concerns or the abuse he has suffered are not real, and that this should be ignored. That's the classic narcissistic playbook. If these things happened to me, I would not be silent either...

Even if Harry does not win his case, he has made the public aware of the inner workings of the RF and the press. Horrific. He might not be believed now, but history has a funny way of repeating itself. This case will be referenced one day when another person in the RF falls victim to the complicated relationship between the Palace and the Press.

What exactly you think has happened? Harry himself has been pretty inconsistent and vague, like above there was the quote where he could not say where he has heard of the secret agreement. To me it just sounds Harry didn’t quite understand the legal dealings and William settled in 2020z The hacking did happen, but what media did a decade ago and what the royal family are doing now aren’t the same. And this isn’t ignored, there is a court case going on. But so far there hasn’t been much progress. We will see if Harry eventually provides some evidence.

 

[Durham]

It seems as many think that Harry is making this stuff up? That his concerns or the abuse he has suffered are not real, and that this should be ignored. That's the classic narcissistic playbook. If these things happened to me, I would not be silent either...

Even if Harry does not win his case, he has made the public aware of the inner workings of the RF and the press. Horrific. He might not be believed now, but history has a funny way of repeating itself. This case will be referenced one day when another person in the RF falls victim to the complicated relationship between the Palace and the Press.

Horrific? No. This is hyperbole. What happened to the family of Milly Dowler was horrific. Anyone with the most basic grasp of recent British media history knows this.

 

[Hallo girl]

Horrific? No. This is hyperbole. What happened to the family of Milly Dowler was horrific. Anyone with the most basic grasp of recent British media history knows this.

Well Said.

 

[HRHTalDuchess]

I was not familiar with the Milly Dowler case. Very true that this was horrific. I'm glad NotW has since been shut down.

Why does the UK tolerate such wicked media to flourish? Same media owner, not surprised...

Horrific? No. This is hyperbole. What happened to the family of Milly Dowler was horrific. Anyone with the most basic grasp of recent British media history knows this.

 

[Erin9]

What exactly you think has happened? Harry himself has been pretty inconsistent and vague, like above there was the quote where he could not say where he has heard of the secret agreement. To me it just sounds Harry didn’t quite understand the legal dealings and William settled in 2020z The hacking did happen, but what media did a decade ago and what the royal family are doing now aren’t the same. And this isn’t ignored, there is a court case going on. But so far there hasn’t been much progress. We will see if Harry eventually provides some evidence.

I really can’t get past Harry saying he doesn’t know who he heard about this so called secret agreement from. I mean, really?! He’s screaming about this supposed agreement, and he can’t even remember where he heard it from. How convenient. So I guess we’re just supposed to take his word for it then…..

What the media did regarding the hacking was horrible. I think we can all agree on that. This isn’t new news though. And lots of people beyond William and Harry were affected. William settled his case, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Harry is vague and inconsistent about a lot of things. This is just the latest example.

 

[caethi]

It is perfectly acceptable and a very common practice to settle a case out of court--it is often done when both parties want to avoid the cost and publicity associated with a prolonged and complex court case (why am I thinking of Dickens' Bleak House)?

By labelling it as "secret", Harry is implying that the deal was inappropriate or somehow nefarious, which is ridiculous.

I have no doubt that the hacking took place, and that the offending press acted both immorally and illegally in doing so. If Harry wants to bring a case against them I wish him well. What is disturbing is that Harry seems to be integrating the facts of the case (whatever they are) into his system of paranoid thinking, in which his father and brother have continually "colluded" with the press in unsavoury attempts to gain positive publicity at Harry's (and later Meghan's) expense. This seems to be a continuation of Harry's sad narrative that he has no value except as "spare".

In my view out of court settlements, like the one Harry is flagging, demonstrate that the various royal press secretaries have media strategies to preserve the the roles and work of the monarch and senior BRF members. So what? Every well-run public and private enterprise has a media strategy.

In my opinion, and from what I can see so far with the information that has been made publicly available to date, Harry is still trying to symbolically save his mother from press harassment--the harassment that contributed to her death. I find it all terribly sad.

 

[HRHHermione]

It is perfectly acceptable and a very common practice to settle a case out of court--it is often done when both parties want to avoid the cost and publicity associated with a prolonged and complex court case (why am I thinking of Dickens' Bleak House)?



By labelling it as "secret", Harry is implying that the deal was inappropriate or somehow nefarious, which is ridiculous.



I have no doubt that the hacking took place, and that the offending press acted both immorally and illegally in doing so. If Harry wants to bring a case against them I wish him well. What is disturbing is that Harry seems to be integrating the facts of the case (whatever they are) into his system of paranoid thinking, in which his father and brother have continually "colluded" with the press in unsavoury attempts to gain positive publicity at Harry's (and later Meghan's) expense. This seems to be a continuation of Harry's sad narrative that he has no value except as "spare".



In my view out of court settlements, like the one Harry is flagging, demonstrate that the various royal press secretaries have media strategies to preserve the the roles and work of the monarch and senior BRF members. So what? Every well-run public and private enterprise has a media strategy.



In my opinion, and from what I can see so far with the information that has been made publicly available to date, Harry is still trying to symbolically save his mother from press harassment--the harassment that contributed to her death. I find it all terribly sad.

This is very in line with my own view. We know the phone hacking happened and that it was criminal, but that very real harm is being conflated with other things that are not illegal or even immoral, just part of the standard operating practices of any large and public organization. Confidential settlements are very common and I’d be shocked if the palace didn’t have PR strategies because every organization does. Harry’s got very complex feelings about that, doesn’t seem to have much knowledge of business or legal practices, and it’s all getting mixed up.

We’ll see how the judge rules and will know soon enough whether his argument was found to have legal merit.

 

[Asteria12]

Yes, agree with you both Caethi and HRHHermione. ^^

 

[Erin9]

Yes, agree with you both Caethi and HRHHermione. ^^

Me too. I wish there was a “like” button. Very well said by both.

 

[Prinsara]

Me too. I wish there was a “like” button. Very well said by both.

There is. It's the "Thanks" button.

 

[yukari]

This is very in line with my own view. We know the phone hacking happened and that it was criminal, but that very real harm is being conflated with other things that are not illegal or even immoral, just part of the standard operating practices of any large and public organization. Confidential settlements are very common and I’d be shocked if the palace didn’t have PR strategies because every organization does. Harry’s got very complex feelings about that, doesn’t seem to have much knowledge of business or legal practices, and it’s all getting mixed up.

We’ll see how the judge rules and will know soon enough whether his argument was found to have legal merit.

Indeed. Furthermore it's a civil lawsuit. Even if it went to trial and he (or William) and he won, the end result would be Murdoch/NGN required to pay some amount of money as compensation, basically same end result as with settlement. It's not as if it could end with Murdoch being thrown to prison or the closing down of NGN.

The difference is, with settlement, both parties can save time and money they would have spent in trial. And yes, a settlement most likely will have a clause whereas the claimant agreed not to fill litigation for the same offence in the future (in case of William's settlement, is something that I suspect Harry misinterpreted as "secret agreement" between William and NGN preventing future litigations which I doubt have any legal effect to Harry).

Then again, settlement means less publicity and as Harry himself has stated in his witness statement: "I thought (naively perhaps) that this might prove the perfect opportunity to air our grievances and force a resolution to our phone-hacking claims that had.", settlement also means he lose a stage to air his grievances. The problem is this "airing his grievances" ends up undermining what actualy is a legit lawsuit.

 

[angieuk]

Harry's phone-hacking testimony contained 'troubling factual inconsistencies', hacking judge says (Daily Mail) 27 April 2023.

Harry's legal team making this more embarrassing; if he wants this to have any legal merit.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Harry's phone-hacking testimony contained 'troubling factual inconsistencies', hacking judge says (Daily Mail) 27 April 2023.

Harry's legal team making this more embarrassing; if he wants this to have any legal merit.

Well I mean, the legal team will win those fees either way, it really be him on his own who looks bad

 

[angieuk]

How many other legal cases does he have 'on the go' as well.
I know about the Home Office Security issue; still ongoing.
Meghan still has her Samantha Markle case ongoing. I believe the one with her father and the letter has been SETTLED.

 

[Lilyflo]

Just a quickie to say that secret agreement has overtones of something underhand, whereas private agreement doesn't. The choice of words used is interesting.

 

[Hallo girl]

I have no legal background but some of the wording from Harrys legal time does not seem particularly professional.

They must know there are always private agreements around compensation claims so why are they using 'secret' also why say that William ' got a very large sum of money' why not a substantial payment if they should even have revealed that in the first place.

Some of the wording does not sound what I would have expected from a high power legal team. have they failed to do their homework if the judge is calling things into question already, could they not have picked up the inconsistencies or as somebody else pointed out they get paid either way. Surely you are paying for the best job possible.

 

[moby]

Good call on the language. Maybe using "secret" and "very large sum of money" is intentional and the purpose is not to be legalistic but to make it accessible and appealing to a wider audience and feed social media discussions and the tabloids.

 

[Hallo girl]

Good call on the language. Maybe using "secret" and "very large sum of money" is intentional and the purpose is not to be legalistic but to make it accessible and appealing to a wider audience and feed social media discussions and the tabloids.

Great points, I had thought they were literally quoting Harry but these are good points you are making regarding the appeal to a particular audience.

 

[Granada]

I still believe three intertwined things are in place here in the Lawsuit. Harry's paranoia, Harry's obsession and hatred of the Press, and Harry's ongoing quest to diminish William's reputation with the Public.

To me, Spare brought to light, in Harry's OWN words, his paranoia and many unhealthy habits and obsessions-fixations.

From actually saying 'I WAS BROUGHT into this world in case something happened to Willy. I WAS SUMMONED to provide a backup, a distraction, diversion and if necessary a spare part". Yikes, talk about paranoid.

Harry is like a Medieval Knight on a Crusade in his quest to take on and "defeat" The Press. As in days of old....'to champion, and avenge' in his mind, his Mother and Wife's supposedly horrible treatment. Resulting in Diana's tragic death. That Harry can't seem to come to terms with.

He says "reform" for the Press is his endgame, but Im betting Prince Harry will instead be more like Don Quixote, a futile " tilting at Windmills ". In his attempt to break them. But he used to word "police" it.

Lastly, Harry is making a big waves in public again, naming arch nemesis William in Harry's own Court case. Detailing Williams's "favorable and secret deals' with the Press and receiving a 'very large sum of money' in a settlement regarding Phone hacking. Yep, painting William again in a very negative light !
Greedy, conniving and double dealing William, leaving Harry out to dry.

Harry seems to constantly be upping the ante in his attempts to demean and hurt William. Its really horrible.

Does it ever end ? I actually hate to think of what the response of The Sussex's will be if this Suit gets squashed. More lashing out, I'm afraid.

 

[victor1319]

Harry is like a Medieval Knight on a Crusade in his quest to take on and "defeat" The Press. As in days of old....

The point is: All what we know about the wide world, we know out of the media! And also all we know about the Royals, we know out of the media.

The Royals are relevant, because of the attention they are creating and receiving.

And the same is true for Prince Harry himself - Without the media, he would be perhaps an excentric individual somewhere, but not a multi-millionaire in California.

So, if he wants to police the media... Who would be interested in a media without scandals and revelations? Not many probably, what means, Prince Harry's income would drastically fall under such conditions.

 

[Durham]

I was not familiar with the Milly Dowler case. Very true that this was horrific. I'm glad NotW has since been shut down.

Why does the UK tolerate such wicked media to flourish? Same media owner, not surprised...

As long as the press operates within the law there’s not a lot that can be done. The News of the World of course crossed a very red line & deserved to be shut down.

 

[Durham]

Just a quickie to say that secret agreement has overtones of something underhand, whereas private agreement doesn't. The choice of words used is interesting.

An excellent point. Very sneaky of them! Like subliminal advertising.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: Apr. 2023 -

The Judge saying there are “troubling factual inconsistencies” sounds like a polite way of saying you’re lying imo.