The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: April - August 2023

[Claire]

Confused - where is the evidence? Can you have a trial based solely on hearsay?
Are other giving evidence.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: Apr. 2023 -

Maybe I'm missing something but would you go to court with suspicions but without any evidence?

Wow- “hard evidence of suspiciousness”?! That’s….bad.

Harry seems to need someone and something to blame for everything. This gives him another opportunity to finger point how wronged he’s been. (Yes- the press can be nasty and hacking is wrong.)

He can afford to throw money at this.

I guess he doesn’t care how bad his lack of real evidence comes across.

Speaking of interesting exchanges- Harry arguing like a teenager to the attorney yesterday about whether the evidence was actually on his screen or not was not exactly his best moment.

“It is on the screen in front of you,’ Mr Green

‘It is not,’ said Harry.

‘I think it is,’ said the lawyer.

‘If you say so,’ said Harry

Nor was it a good look when the lawyer had to say, “Let’s focus on the question I’m asking.” Heavens….

 

[princess gertrude]

It will be interesting to see how today goes in Court.

Thanks to all for posting the different Media analysis of the proceedings. I guess my favorite was The Guardians take on how the day went.

"whatever he had been hoping for out of his day in Court he wasn't getting. He was beginning to see why so many had advised him not to throw himself on The Courts mercy. The law could be merciless."

If he loses this case, he still has others pending. Will Harry learn from this though ? Be grateful for the many blessings, riches and privileged life he leads and attempt to go forward in a positive manner INSPITE of media scrutiny.

If not for himself, then for his children. Has the path he has taken in the last few years REALLY brought him satisfaction and contentment ?
Hopefully this can be a positive learning experience for Harry, at least I hope so.

We could only hope this would be the case, but sadly, with the people surrounding him giving him advise, this will not happen. What he has done the last several years could certainly not bring him satisfaction. And if he keeps this up with the lawsuits, and loosing, it's going to put him in the poor house. At which time, he will have no other option than to go back "home" to the King and Prince of Wales.

 

[shady lady]

Wow- “hard evidence of suspiciousness”?! That’s….bad.

I saw that and thought it was very dodgy

Re: the allegations about the flight info I wish my late Dad was around as he was a keen plane spotter and spent upwards of 40 years going to airports with his friends and tracking down planes he hadn't seen etc. I would have loved to know his thoughts about it. When I was young I got the impression he was tipped off about "special" flights by staff - we even lived by an airport

I agree that the flight info was the nearest thing to a strong example but it still fell short in terms of proving definite illegal activity IMO.

 

[Lilyflo]

Given that Harry's testimony didn't provide any evidence of illegality, do we know if Harry's lawyers have other people to call to prove their case?

 

[Lilyflo]

Re: the allegations about the flight info I wish my late Dad was around as he was a keen plane spotter and spent upwards of 40 years going to airports with his friends and tracking down planes he hadn't seen etc. I would have loved to know his thoughts about it. When I was young I got the impression he was tipped off about "special" flights by staff - we even lived by an airport

I agree that the flight info was the nearest thing to a strong example but it still fell short in terms of proving definite illegal activity IMO.

I agree. Unless Harry flew the plane himself with no ground staff, baggage handlers or cabin crew, there would always be the possibility of somebody giving a tip off to reporters/photographers.

 

[Granada]

Geez, are ANY of these legal actions doing Harry any favors for his mental health or reputation ? Not to me. He comes off with a very unhealthy fixation on The Media, and supremely entitled and arrogant.

What exactly has he proven so far ? His case is short on facts and details, but big on allegations, insinuations, doubts and......suspicion. Oh, and *if* he loses, he feels it would be an injustice. Wow.

I wish Harry could simply find the serenity that eludes him. And *some* acceptance that life is not fair. Look to others that have dealt with the same "celebrity" and be wiser about dealing with intrusions and scrutiny.

Someone like John F Kennedy jr. He CERTAINLY had it worse than Harry. For example, He failed the Bar Exam in NY and the tabloids screeched "The Hunk Flunks", then when he failed a second time....The Hunks Flunks.....Again".

NOTHING JFK Jr did was EVER off the press radar. But, he accepted it with a shrug and graciousness. And lived life. On his OWN terms too. In NY City, the belly of the beast no less.....LOL.
Something Harry still can do. Especially now as he enters middle age. The Press would and will move on. Its inevitable.

 

[An Ard Ri]

HRH The Duke of Sussex arriving at the High Court in London earlier.
https://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?start=0&zoektype=2&search=07-06-2023 London

 

[Alison H]

There are three other test cases, and over 100 people involved in all.

It's hard to believe that over 100 people are all being paranoid/imagining things, but I don't know how you can actually prove that voicemails were hacked.

It'll be interesting to see what the others have to say. There are always going to be reports about senior royals swirling round, but is someone going to be rushing to tip the press off about a story concerning a soap opera actor?

 

[Ghost]

There are three other test cases, and over 100 people involved in all.

It's hard to believe that over 100 people are all being paranoid/imagining things, but I don't know how you can actually prove that voicemails were hacked.

It'll be interesting to see what the others have to say. There are always going to be reports about senior royals swirling round, but is someone going to be rushing to tip the press off about a story concerning a soap opera actor?

I presume that it can happen if there’s a scandal du jour that involves that person.

 

[Blog Real]

Watch live: Prince Harry resumes giving evidence in phone hacking case

 

[Kenya]

Confused - where is the evidence? Can you have a trial based solely on hearsay?
Are other giving evidence.

Yes, you can have a trial based solely on hearsay and circumstantial evidence. Just usually not a convincing case, unless the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. Here, it's not. Harry's "evidence" is nothing more than his supposition that he must have been hacked.

I wish Harry could simply find the serenity that alludes him.

I wish this too. I remember during the days following his departure from England/BRF when it was suggested that he and his family might've gone to Africa. I was thinking yesterday how much simpler and happier his life would be if they'd done that and he'd gotten to work on the kind of charity projects there that are obviously very meaningful to him. There'd be little to no press intrusion, and he could just live his life and be happy. For all his faults, he doesn't seem to be someone who craves the spotlight, and he seems like he could be perfectly happy if he was away from it.

Sadly, he married someone who really seems to want and need the attention and adulation of being in the public eye. There's nothing wrong with that, especially for someone who was an actress. But it feels like the best thing for Harry's mental health would be for him to recede from public life; not permanently, but for a few years at least. Living with the kind of paranoia and fear he has isn't healthy and his life doesn't have to be this way. He was willing to give up everything for Meghan's mental health and well-being. I wonder if she'd be willing to do the same for his?

 

[SirGyamfi1]

The Piers Morgan who has always denied that he knew anything at all about hacking, illegal information gathering, when he was editor of the Mirror.

The Piers Morgan who has almost daily blasted Harry and Meghan for something or other on his TV show and in articles in tabloids. That Piers Morgan. A Completely unbiased observer.

He actually liked Harry before he was married. Piers is just as biased as Omid Scobie, the Sussexes pet journalist. A lot of things the Sussexes did were silly anyways. No one in the media is completely fair.

 

[victor1319]

Statue of Limitations?

Hi,

I have a legal question: What is talked about at court, these things happend long ago in the past. So, it might be fait to say, that the "statue of limitations" can be pulled by The Mirror and all the other outfits, which will be in question.

And now my question: When exactly is this 'statue of limitations' point brought up according to English (?) Law? At the end of the process?

 

[Somebody]

There's a lot of this kind of thing from Harry:

"I didn't discuss blah blah with anyone else so the newspaper information must have come from phone hacking"

There's no way that kind of speculation is evidence of illegality on the part of MGN. Harry and his team will have to come up with some hard evidence to convince the judge.

This sounds like an illogical argument. If he didn't discuss something with anyone else, I'd argue it is impossible that it came from phone hacking - because that requires that it was discussed with someone by phone.

 

[duchessrachel]

Live feed from Sky News for Day 2:

https://news.sky.com/story/prince-h...ss-diana-piers-morgan-mirror-william-12881275

Some thoughts: credit where credit is due in that PH hasn't thrown a wobbly as I was half expecting him to. I'm wondering if all this is a bit of an eye opener for him and maybe will give him pause to think about his life and what he is doing with it. On the other hand he clearly believes he has found his metier in pursuing the press and may be willing to endure further cross examination to suffer for his cause, which also fits in with his identity as a "victim". I would have thought that as a mother Diana would want only peace and happiness for her son. Perhaps after he's had his say in court in the group of current cases he will consider his work is done, but he may never be able to let it go.

I've speed read his statement, I honestly don't think he wrote it by himself without any help. I would have thought a degree of help with putting his statement together was part of the service by his lawyer, but I suppose it depends on how much he actually contributed to it that tests its credibility.

I think so far his case is weak in that there is a lack of factual evidence. I can't see how his repeated suggestion to the KC of asking the journalist in question about an article they wrote is proof of wrongdoing. Isn't he supposed to come up with solid evidence to back his claims up?

all MOO

P.S. here in the UK we have been treated to reconstructions of the day's events on at least two news channels using actors to play PH

One would think that a mother would want that, but she behaved in an abominable way when he was a child that caused both William and Harry lots of distress--the Martin Bashir interview comes to mind and her 1992 book "Diana's True Story".
I would love to see those actors portraying the court case LOL!

 

[Lilyflo]

This sounds like an illogical argument. If he didn't discuss something with anyone else, I'd argue it is impossible that it came from phone hacking - because that requires that it was discussed with someone by phone.

My paraphrasing is that he says he didn't discuss things with people outside of whatever the topic was eg he didn't discuss his relationship, his travel arrangements etc. so if the information leaked, it must have been hacked from his phone.

 

[FigTree]

I wish this too. I remember during the days following his departure from England/BRF when it was suggested that he and his family might've gone to Africa. I was thinking yesterday how much simpler and happier his life would be if they'd done that and he'd gotten to work on the kind of charity projects there that are obviously very meaningful to him. There'd be little to no press intrusion, and he could just live his life and be happy. For all his faults, he doesn't seem to be someone who craves the spotlight, and he seems like he could be perfectly happy if he was away from it.

Sadly, he married someone who really seems to want and need the attention and adulation of being in the public eye. There's nothing wrong with that, especially for someone who was an actress. But it feels like the best thing for Harry's mental health would be for him to recede from public life; not permanently, but for a few years at least. Living with the kind of paranoia and fear he has isn't healthy and his life doesn't have to be this way. He was willing to give up everything for Meghan's mental health and well-being. I wonder if she'd be willing to do the same for his?

I agree with a lot of this but do find more conflicts. Harry really doesn't seem into hands on charity. Otherwise he would probably do it...because he could now.

He obviously has a lot of love and care to give to people and wants to give it. But the relationship with his partner doesn't seem to healthiest.

Harry wants to be left alone but he doesn't. He wants to up unquestioned...and no one has that right. He doesn't want to be stalked by an unscrupulous media...he shouldn't be. He wants attention on his terms and no-one can have this really. You choose to engage or you don't.

It is such a difficult. I would.love him to disappear, live without intrusion...he has the money for a great life. Have peace and just live his days with the stability that alluded him in his early life.

Sadly he just seems not to be able to get it.

I mean being honest his brother has a lot less intrusion into his life.

 

[tommy100]

I have yet to see or hear about an article that contained information that really was only known to Harry and one other person and that was shared via voicemails. Surely you really need something like that to then be able to have the other person testify they didn't tell anyone to know for sure it was through a voicemail hack. That is pretty much how phone hacking was revealed when William and Tom Bradbury exchanged voicemails sorting out William lending some camera equipment. They knew no-one else knew but it had ended in the papers anyway so it was clear it must have come from someone listening to their voicemails.

That is the sort of case Harry and his legal team need to present - so far all of these seem to have really quite simple explanations as to why or how the information got out. E.g - suggesting you must have been hacked because the paps knew you were at a strip club overlooks the fact anyone else at the club or working at the club could easily have phoned it in to a pap as a tip off.

The judge has to decide on the basis of probability that it was likely or not that Harry was hacked. So far there is a lot of bluff and bluster about media intrusion (true but already known and not relevant really here to a simple binary point) and a lot of speculation. Is that enough to convince a judge?

The one most salient point made by Harry and one that the judge picked up on was him having voicemails on his phone he didn't recall having been notified about. But I would suspect there would need to be evidence linking that to the Mirror Group for the judge to rule in Harry's favour - that proves he may have been hacked but doesn't prove who did it or if that was then used by the Mirror Group.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

That is a good point about the voicemail notification. But how would anyone prove that?

 

[Leopoldine]

One would think that a mother would want that, but she behaved in an abominable way when he was a child that caused both William and Harry lots of distress--the Martin Bashir interview comes to mind and her 1992 book "Diana's True Story".
I would love to see those actors portraying the court case LOL!

One of the portrayals can be seen on Sky News's Twitter feed, and the other on Dan Wooton's GB News program from last night. The June 6 show is archived on the GB News site. Dan might have also had a second "episode" on his program today. The GB News one is hilarious.

 

[Alison H]

It's hard to believe that over 100 people are all mistaken in thinking that their phones were hacked, but I don't know how they can actually prove it.

 

[FigTree]

It's hard to believe that over 100 people are all mistaken in thinking that their phones were hacked, but I don't know how they can actually prove it.

Of course they were right. It was rife. But this is a court of law you have to show on the basis of probability. Harry may not have. Doesn’t mean the evidence won’t. He was just basically the media have made my life hell and they did hack me and stuff but no I can’t pinpoint this newspaper group directly.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Here is an article in The New York Times if you’re interested. Some interesting info about the history of tabloid journalism in the UK.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/06/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

 

[Erin9]

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: Apr. 2023 -

That is a good point about the voicemail notification. But how would anyone prove that?

Good question.

An additional issue is- this was a LONG time ago. Just how reliable is anyone’s memory? Plus- we all know Harry’s version of events have been to known to change. (Or he’s just been proven wrong.) That was even pointed out yesterday comparing Spare to his witness statement.

I don’t doubt people were hacked, since 100 people claiming this are unlikely to be wrong.

Whether Harry can prove his case, who knows. Most of his testimony didn’t prove anything. It seemed to be another opportunity for him to vent about press intrusion, more than anything else.

 

[kalnel]

I agree with a lot of this but do find more conflicts. Harry really doesn't seem into hands on charity. Otherwise he would probably do it...because he could now.

He obviously has a lot of love and care to give to people and wants to give it. But the relationship with his partner doesn't seem to healthiest.

Harry wants to be left alone but he doesn't. He wants to up unquestioned...and no one has that right. He doesn't want to be stalked by an unscrupulous media...he shouldn't be. He wants attention on his terms and no-one can have this really. You choose to engage or you don't.

It is such a difficult. I would.love him to disappear, live without intrusion...he has the money for a great life. Have peace and just live his days with the stability that alluded him in his early life.

Sadly he just seems not to be able to get it.

I mean being honest his brother has a lot less intrusion into his life.

I think Harry *could* live life that way, if he stopped releasing books, doing podcasts, producing videos about his life, and appearing at media events. Eventually the media would lose interest.

While I can certainly imagine his desire to seek justice if he feels he has been wronged, I would have to think that his advisors would have explained to him that staying out of court cases like this would be a more effective way to stay out of the media eye than suing people.

 

[tommy100]

A bit of me wonders if Harry hasn't been brought into this almost as a bit of a "brand ambassador". Maybe he was encourage to be part of this by Mr Sherborne back in 2018 and his name and fame used to encourage others to join the legal case whilst of course tying in with Harry's own views on the media.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: Apr. 2023 -

A bit of me wonders if Harry hasn't been brought into this almost as a bit of a "brand ambassador". Maybe he was encourage to be part of this by Mr Sherborne back in 2018 and his name and fame used to encourage others to join the legal case whilst of course tying in with Harry's own views on the media.

I thought it was notable that he was approached by Mr. Sherborne in France. So, maybe.

 

[Curryong]

From the BBC.
Summary

Prince Harry has given evidence for a second day at the High Court, as part of his hacking case against the Daily Mirror publisher
He says he took the case against Mirror Group Newspapers to stop "hate" towards his wife Meghan
Earlier, he told the court he once found a tracking device on the car of his ex-girlfriend, Chelsy Davy
And he questioned how photographers knew he was meeting the late TV star Caroline Flack for dinner in 2009
The Mirror's ex-royal editor was also questioned - she said she can't recall her sources for four of her 10 stories featured in this case
The Mirror denies unlawful methods - and says the stories were obtained through legitimate sources.

Harry has 33 shots - and only one must hit the back of the net

Dominic Casciani
Legal correspondent, reporting from court
‘While so much of Prince Harry's case comes down to circumstantial evidence (because he alleges direct proof was destroyed) there's a very simple way to look at his chances: he's got 33 of them.

That's the number of sample newspaper articles he's linking to unlawful intrusion into his life.

Think of them as 33 balls at the penalty spot. The Mirror has to save them all.

If just one makes the back of the net, the prince can declare he was a proven victim and he wins at least part of the case.’

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-65767193

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

Harry doesn’t have to “prove” that he had voicemails and didn’t receive notifications, per se.

The judge can consider the sum of his testimony and decide— you know, if it was just that he didn’t recall getting some notifications, or that some things showed up that came from unlikely sources, or some photographers always knew where he was, each of those things wouldn’t convince me, but the convergence of all of these things indeed makes it more likely than not that the defendants did what they are accused of.

Frankly, I think this is a likely outcome.