The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: April - August 2023

[Erin9]

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 8: Apr. 2023 -

Interesting that they've chosen 30 of their 100+ articles yet the Mirror legal team have been so easily able to prove where such stories were published first, including at times from Harry's own comments. I'm surprised such a high price legal team working for Harry weren't able to find that out themselves.

TBH to me it feels a lot more like a case of throwing enough mud at the wall that some of it will stick in the end.

The guardian have a very balanced view of it all from their journalist who was there (even bumping into Harry in the gents toilets before it) and point out Harry had really not much to say in many ways, certainly a lot of this seems based on his feelings rather than hard facts.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ts-to-the-witness-box-harry-has-little-to-say

The phrase “Shooting fish in a barrel” was what came to mind during Harry’s cross. The mirror’s legal team were easily able to dismantle many (all?) of his hacking claims.

Yes- it does seem like they’re just throwing stuff at the wall, hoping something will stick. Maybe something will.

 

[camelot23ca]

It’s not a perfect answer, but to some degree, people can choose whether to seek out the glare of the spotlight and the associated risk and reward. Most people don’t become famous at birth. Prince Harry didn’t get that choice and I am very sympathetic to that, but I would be a lot more sympathetic to it if he had safeguarded his own privacy and that of his family rather than being extremely revealing of personal information when it can be monetized.

To your point about people choosing whether to seek out the glare of the spotlight, William and Harry were also victims of the way in which their parents chose to live their lives in relation to the press. They made increasingly little effort to hide the fact that their marriage was miserable, they both had affairs, they tried to one up each other with the press in various ways, including by using their two young children as image boosters. They then made no effort to limit the nastiness of their divorce. It was a real race to the bottom and I think both William and Harry have continued to pay the price for their parents’ actions. The press and public were always going to be interested in them and Diana’s tragic death would have made things worse regardless, but tragedy on top of over a decade of scandal and increasingly obvious attempts at press manipulation makes for an especially potent mix.

Then Diana was gone and Charles wasn’t young and charismatic enough to make money for the press on his own, but the press and the public had gotten used to drama being the default setting for the Wales family. That’s impacted how things have been for William and Harry, IMO, and it’s something The Sussexes should be mindful of now that they have children of their own.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Does the other side need to prove that it was obtained legally or that it could have been obtained legally? Given that Harry is making claims without any evidence, wouldn't it suffice to explain how that information could have been obtained legally?

Yes - sorry I wasn't clearer - but it was late at night here when I posted.

He makes a claim and the other side has to prove what he said isn't completely plausible so proving that they had legal sources, such as other outlets printing it either earlier or at the same time would be enough.

A phone hack would be one source for one outlet while another outlet then running that story would be using a legal source for them, even though the original source may not have been legal.

So outlet a) hacks his phone and prints a story; b) the mirror then rehashes the story. For the mirror that is legal as they are simply repeating what is already in the public domain.

 

[Leopoldine]

Tonight on GB News, Jacob Rees-Mogg had Michael Cole on his program to discuss Prince Harry's court procedure. Jacob, a monarchist and no stranger himself to rapacious press coverage, was primarily interested in Freedom of Press implications. I found it unusual for a sitting MP to be talking about a member of the BRF, but Harry was very disparaging about the UK government, so this seems like unchartered territory.

 

[noc]

The entire situation with Harry is unchartered territory for the BRF, his entire life is becoming one of litigation

 

[Roderick]

It's nothing to do with the BRF though - just Harry!

 

[Heavs]

It's not that unusual for MPs to discuss what they think of whatever current issues are surrounding the BRF, the monarchy as an institution or a particular member, even on much more mainstream channels than GB News.

Most have tried to stay out of the Sussex situation (although pre leaving in 2020 several female Labour MPs signed a letter backing Meghan over something) and I think that's a wise decision in general. Certainly no PM wants to get dragged into a row over it.

 

[Hallo girl]

The newspaper didn't have a great defence over the story about his return from South Africa, he claims nobody knew the flight details for security purposes. I would say that was a win for Harry but then he himself said something I thought quite silly when the defence lawyer challenged one of his claims when the story had actually been incorrect, but Harrys response was that they deliberately put in wrong details to cover that the story was hacked/ blagged. I suppose that is a possibility but why use an example where the press were wrong. They could just have easily fabricated a story( still not right) but not hacked which is what he is claiming. He had been in a nightclub without Chesley and the story claimed she was annoyed at him, the second part was allegedly the incorrect part of the story but anybody could have seen him there and tipped off the press, it could have been a reporter himself that was there by chance.

Another attack from Harry is that although the story was in another newspaper first, the Mirror could have hacked/ blagged as they have done before.
The photograph of him going out to dinner with a tv personality, that could easily have been a chance encounter, the photographers hang about all the popular places in London, or somebody within the restaurant tipping off the newspaper that they were there. That is a loose example as well I would say.

I find the claims where he has been in public places rather shaky, nightclubs, hospitals, even the school for that matter. It just takes a casual remark from somebody within the premises to a friend / relative to create a story. It is not evidence that the paper went looking using criminal means.

I do believe there is an element of truth in what Harry is claiming I am just not sure if he has presented the best examples, so far anyway.

 

[Hallo girl]

It's nothing to do with the BRF though - just Harry!

But he is a Counsellor of State who has made a comment on the current government. That could be a problem,

 

[Alison H]

I'm feeling a bit sorry for the other 100 or so people involved in this case, who range from international household names to fairly minor celebrities. It's turned into Harry's circus, and the fact that other people are also affected has been forgotten.

 

[Lilyflo]

I do believe there is an element of truth in what Harry is claiming I am just not sure if he has presented the best examples, so far anyway.

I agree. I'm completely on Harry's side in the general issue of gutter press reportage but unless he can prove the papers acted illegally, he's wasting his time and money.

 

[An Ard Ri]

HRH The Duke of Sussex leaving the High Court in London yesterday.

https://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=06-06-2023 London

 

[muriel]

I agree. I'm completely on Harry's side in the general issue of gutter press reportage but unless he can prove the papers acted illegally, he's wasting his time and money.

Well said. The issue, to me, is not whether you are dealing with the "gutter" Press, but if Harry can prove they illegally hacked his phone.

 

[iceflower]

Day 2 for the Duke of Sussex at court today, June 7:


** rex gallery **


** gettyimages gallery: GBR: Prince Harry Gives Evidence At The Mirror Group Newspapers Trial - Day 2 **

 

[suztav]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before ... Is Harry staying in a hotel while in London or at a royal residence? Does anyone know if he will meet with his father?

 

[shady lady]

Live feed from Sky News for Day 2:

https://news.sky.com/story/prince-h...ss-diana-piers-morgan-mirror-william-12881275

Some thoughts: credit where credit is due in that PH hasn't thrown a wobbly as I was half expecting him to. I'm wondering if all this is a bit of an eye opener for him and maybe will give him pause to think about his life and what he is doing with it. On the other hand he clearly believes he has found his metier in pursuing the press and may be willing to endure further cross examination to suffer for his cause, which also fits in with his identity as a "victim". I would have thought that as a mother Diana would want only peace and happiness for her son. Perhaps after he's had his say in court in the group of current cases he will consider his work is done, but he may never be able to let it go.

I've speed read his statement, I honestly don't think he wrote it by himself without any help. I would have thought a degree of help with putting his statement together was part of the service by his lawyer, but I suppose it depends on how much he actually contributed to it that tests its credibility.

I think so far his case is weak in that there is a lack of factual evidence. I can't see how his repeated suggestion to the KC of asking the journalist in question about an article they wrote is proof of wrongdoing. Isn't he supposed to come up with solid evidence to back his claims up?

all MOO

P.S. here in the UK we have been treated to reconstructions of the day's events on at least two news channels using actors to play PH

 

[shady lady]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before ... Is Harry staying in a hotel while in London or at a royal residence? Does anyone know if he will meet with his father?

Hi suztav, the King is currently in Transylvania on a walking holiday, so unless Harry plans to fly over there to see his Dad it's unlikely.

As for where he is staying this article suggests a few options...

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...prince-harry-staying-this-week-b2353013.html#

He's supposed to be close to Eugenie so perhaps he is staying at Frogmore Cottage to see the new baby, although my first thought was that he would be in a hotel or private residence close to the Court for convenience.

 

[Curryong]

Harry could be staying with friends. I know he remains close to Elton John and his husband David Furnish, and Elton is a fellow litigant in the hacking case. So their home is maybe a possibility. Elton has a London home in Holland Park, and another one in Windsor Great Park.

 

[Lilyflo]

There's a lot of this kind of thing from Harry:

"I didn't discuss blah blah with anyone else so the newspaper information must have come from phone hacking"

There's no way that kind of speculation is evidence of illegality on the part of MGN. Harry and his team will have to come up with some hard evidence to convince the judge.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Hi suztav, the King is currently in Transylvania on a walking holiday, so unless Harry plans to fly over there to see his Dad it's unlikely.

As for where he is staying this article suggests a few options...

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...prince-harry-staying-this-week-b2353013.html#

He's supposed to be close to Eugenie so perhaps he is staying at Frogmore Cottage to see the new baby, although my first thought was that he would be in a hotel or private residence close to the Court for convenience.

This King is back in the UK - he had an engagement in London on Monday night.

Is Eugenie still living at Frogmore? She was sub-leasing it from Harry so if Harry's lease has been terminated then I assume hers has been as well. There were reports that she had returned to Ivy Cottage in the lead up to the birth. They may even have already returned to Portugal.

 

[Hallo girl]

There's a lot of this kind of thing from Harry:

"I didn't discuss blah blah with anyone else so the newspaper information must have come from phone hacking"

There's no way that kind of speculation is evidence of illegality on the part of MGN. Harry and his team will have to come up with some hard evidence to convince the judge.

I would agree on this, there is always somebody that knows something, no matter how trivial, that is passed on however innocently and there you have it. It is out there. Just because Harry didn’t tell anybody doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
It is almost like he is now trying to make the pieces fit.
I am also not sure why some of these old cases have not been brought up before. If these are sample cases the others must be pretty tenuous.

 

[Granada]

It will be interesting to see how today goes in Court.

Thanks to all for posting the different Media analysis of the proceedings. I guess my favorite was The Guardians take on how the day went.

"whatever he had been hoping for out of his day in Court he wasn't getting. He was beginning to see why so many had advised him not to throw himself on The Courts mercy. The law could be merciless."

If he loses this case, he still has others pending. Will Harry learn from this though ? Be grateful for the many blessings, riches and privileged life he leads and attempt to go forward in a positive manner INSPITE of media scrutiny.

If not for himself, then for his children. Has the path he has taken in the last few years REALLY brought him satisfaction and contentment ?
Hopefully this can be a positive learning experience for Harry, at least I hope so.

 

[Lilyflo]

This isn't going to convince the judge that Harry was phone-hacked:

(Harry) says he had been to the Amika club in Mayfair occasionally before, but it was "not pleasant" leaving to a group of paparazzi.

"I’m unsure how the photographers knew I was going to be there - there were no photographers there when I arrived," he says.

People who could have informed photographers:

• Passers by seeing him arrive;
• Staff at the club;
• Club members.

 

[rominet09]

It will be interesting to see how today goes in Court.

Thanks to all for posting the different Media analysis of the proceedings. I guess my favorite was The Guardians take on how the day went.

"whatever he had been hoping for out of his day in Court he wasn't getting. He was beginning to see why so many had advised him not to throw himself on The Courts mercy. The law could be merciless."

If he loses this case, he still has others pending. Will Harry learn from this though ? Be grateful for the many blessings, riches and privileged life he leads and attempt to go forward in a positive manner INSPITE of media scrutiny.

If not for himself, then for his children. Has the path he has taken in the last few years REALLY brought him satisfaction and contentment ?
Hopefully this can be a positive learning experience for Harry, at least I hope so.

How right you are !

 

[camelot23ca]

Well said. The issue, to me, is not whether you are dealing with the "gutter" Press, but if Harry can prove they illegally hacked his phone.

Yes, I don’t think anyone needs Harry to make the case that elements of the British press are immoral pieces of trash. Being an immoral piece of trash isn’t illegal, however.

I will say that, although I have sympathy for Harry (and William) for the way they’ve had to deal with the press from birth, the articles that have been presented so far seem fairly innocuous to me - individually and in aggregate, they don’t seem like the sort of thing that should lead to the amount of anger and paranoia Harry has shown both in this trial and in prior statements. Might his phone have been hacked for one or two of the articles? Probably, but I agree with previous posters who say that the majority of them sound like the typical lazy reporting that’s half based on casual statements from people on the periphery of royal life and half pure conjecture. And we know from Harry’s own book that he did plenty of less innocuous things that either weren’t reported or noticed.

 

[shady lady]

Harry could be staying with friends. I know he remains close to Elton John and his husband David Furnish, and Elton is a fellow litigant in the hacking case. So their home is maybe a possibility. Elton has a London home in Holland Park, and another one in Windsor Great Park.

Great minds think alike lol...when I suggested he could be staying at a private residence Elton John immediately sprang to mind!!! I'd forgotten for the moment that he also has a court case going on... so much of the focus is on PH right now.

 

[suztav]

This King is back in the UK - he had an engagement in London on Monday night.

Is Eugenie still living at Frogmore? She was sub-leasing it from Harry so if Harry's lease has been terminated then I assume hers has been as well. There were reports that she had returned to Ivy Cottage in the lead up to the birth. They may even have already returned to Portugal.

Thank you -- everyone -- for your answers to my questions.

 

[Lilyflo]

Maybe I'm missing something but would you go to court with suspicions but without any evidence?

(Green) asks the prince to identify a single voicemail that he knows was hacked. Prince Harry says there is "hard evidence of suspiciousness," and adds: "I believe that phone hacking started at the Mirror Group."

 

[Erin9]

Well said. The issue, to me, is not whether you are dealing with the "gutter" Press, but if Harry can prove they illegally hacked his phone.

Exactly my thoughts.

I did not think yesterday went well for him in terms of proving hacking.

The flight example was the only semi decent one. Though- I’m not sure on that one either. There were no clear examples imo. And I’m not clear on how that would have really worked either.

 

[Denville]

He is rich enough to waste his money on court cases