The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 6: Aug. 2021- Oct. 2022

[FigTree]

Might we see some empirical evidence? It strikes me that the sound varied from agency to agency and, as one of our members said earlier, they booed at a bus blocking their view.

For my part, I believe that some people have manners and some don't. Also, it is unrealistic to expect everyone to like every member of the BRF as they are all different and behave differently and we each see them through the lens of our own preferences and prejudices. But the continued demand to excommunicate them from the BRF entirely is neither fair nor rational.

The British Royal Family is just that, first and foremost, a family and we can all appreciate that family dynamics are at times incomprehensible. But blood is thicker than water and, in my personal experience, while I can fume at my sisters, let anyone else put their oar in, it'll be snapped off pretty damned smartly.You could be right but this is also the first time they have left their children in the care of strangers and I am guessing both parents were a little anxious as parents often are.

Strangers? I would very much think they brought their nanny. And both have been away over night before.

Newspapers are also saying they didn’t attend the family lunch after the trooping.

I mean whatever, it doesn’t matter. I hope coming here will not have been a negative experience for them personally.

 

[crm2317]

To be honest I’m just happy they came so that the Queen could see Archie and meet Lili on her special weekend.

We can all speculate and observe the interactions and come up with our own interpretations of how the Sussex couple has been received but none of us really will ever know.

As an example, I noticed that Lady Sarah and Meghan were chatting in St Paul’s and it all seemed very warm and friendly. On the other hand when they were leaving the cathedral and they stopped with Mike, Zara and Peter I didn’t get the impression that it was as warm and friendly as their relationship had been in years before. However that is just my personal interpretation of what I saw on TV and other posters may have came to very different conclusions.

 

[FigTree]

To be honest I’m just happy they came so that the Queen could see Archie and meet Lili on her special weekend.

We can all speculate and observe the interactions and come up with our own interpretations of how the Sussex couple has been received but none of us really will ever know.

As an example, I noticed that Lady Sarah and Meghan were chatting in St Paul’s and it all seemed very warm and friendly. On the other hand when they were leaving the cathedral and they stopped with Mike, Zara and Peter I didn’t get the impression that it was as warm and friendly as their relationship had been in years before. However that is just my personal interpretation of what I saw on TV and other posters may have came to very different conclusions.

All those people are grown ups. I would imagine they are very adept at small talk. And they aren’t the ones with personal issues with them however much hurt they may feel on behave of others.

Harry, Peter, William and Zara were a quadrangle their entire childhood…the York’s being younger. That such meetings is also filled with a sense of pain and nostalgia is to be expected. And probably especially for Harry who is the outsider now and who has really stopped making memories with them. You don’t always want to be reminded how peoples lives have continued without you.

In any case it’s all about Eugenie now. I mean she seems beloved by everyone. And if she can keep that relationship with Harry alive that would be nice. She even made sure a picture of him was put up on her instagram. Something the Cambridges didn’t do.

 

[Durham]

Might we see some empirical evidence?

A lot of this is posted regularly on the future of the British monarchy thread but I'm not sure how to link threads:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...05/31/platinum-jubilee-how-popular-are-royals

A lot of surveys from various media sites are not credible of course because of their methodology but YouGov does has a decent reputation:

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/digital-news-report/2021/yougov-research-methods

 

[sophie25]

To be honest I’m just happy they came so that the Queen could see Archie and meet Lili on her special weekend.

We can all speculate and observe the interactions and come up with our own interpretations of how the Sussex couple has been received but none of us really will ever know.

As an example, I noticed that Lady Sarah and Meghan were chatting in St Paul’s and it all seemed very warm and friendly. On the other hand when they were leaving the cathedral and they stopped with Mike, Zara and Peter I didn’t get the impression that it was as warm and friendly as their relationship had been in years before. However that is just my personal interpretation of what I saw on TV and other posters may have came to very different conclusions.

You didn't imagine it, I noticed as well that the warmth between Harry and his Phillips cousins wasn't quite there as he was leaving the cathedral. I think the whole family are rather nervous that they will feature in his upcoming book and just don't trust him anymore.

 

[SiennaMonet]

You didn't imagine it, I noticed as well that the warmth between Harry and his Phillips cousins wasn't quite there as he was leaving the cathedral. I think the whole family are rather nervous that they will feature in his upcoming book and just don't trust him anymore.

Outside the steps, he didn't talk to Phillip but him and Meghan seem quite friendly chatting with Zara.

I think it could be flipped as well, whatever the reason is, I'm pretty sure Harry doesn't trust much of his family anymore. Even before the O interview, some of his things like his exit plan, made it to The Sun. He has just as much reason to be weary.

And as much as I think people want Harry to spill dirt so they can yell at him for it, I'd be funnier (and more likely) that he he side-steps most of his family other than, this is my dad, mom, and etc. He has stories from his gap year, the army and etc. The family might get a nice dedication and that's it.

AND

Today is Lili's first birthday, once again, I don't have kids so I wonder what kind of party it'll be. Seeing as I think those are more for adults than the kids, I wonder if any of the younger family members will show up.

 

[suztav]

How could anyone trust them?

 

[Mbruno]

The week of the Platinum Jubilee festivities was not the only chance for The Queen to meet and interact with her Sussex great-grandchildren, in fact this week is not a good time at all. If Harry and Meghan wanted to come to the UK for the Platinum Jubilee so be it, but if The Queen getting to know her California-based great-grandchildren was of paramount importance, then arrangements would have been made to have the Sussex children visit either well before or well after the Platinum Jubilee festivities.

P.S.
Perhaps there are plans for the Sussexes and their children to spend time with The Queen and The Prince of Wales in the near future.

They could spend a few days at Balmoral in the summer, just as Princess Madeleine's family goes to Solliden to be with the Swedish royals. The fact that they live in the United States doesn't prevent them from taking a vacation in the UK, especially when the kids are not at school.

 

[Granada]

The person whose body language was to me the most interesting in this was Mike Tindall.
Zara, Peter Philips, Harry and Megan and Mike were standing together outside of St Paul's, following the Service, The Sussex's waiting for their car.
Mike cooly and pointedly ignored them.... absolutely zero interaction, and although I'm not a body language expert, from his demeanor, it was quite clear he is not a fan.
Which is sad, as it was Prince Harry who introduced the then Rugby Star Mike Tindall to Zara in Australia in 2003.
It will be VERY interesting to see if the Sussex's attend tonight's Jubilee Concert tonight. Or maybe just Harry goes to diffuse some tensions.

As others have posted, we don't know what the reception was like when the Family ( minus the ones on the Balcony) were together in that room watching the Trooping The Colour.
There was actually no interaction between Charles and Harry at St Paul's either, no nod of the head or anything.

I wasn't surprised that William didn't acknowledge Harry there, but I thought that Charles might as he left.
In retrospect, it might have been better for The Sussex's to have come at an earlier time, for a longer visit to build bridges with Charles.They seem to be placing all their eggs so to speak in ONE basket. The Queens. Not a good long-term strategy. As she seems increasingly frailer and is 96.

More time was needed, not just that "drive by" visit to Windsor where they saw the Queen before the Invictus Games last month. Harry and Megan were reportedly late for a already scheduled brief visit with Charles. Who is known to be very punctual, with tight scheduling.
These short trips for appearances by Harry at Prince Philip's Funeral, Princess Diana's Statue Dedication and now The Queens Jubilee don't seem to be healing rifts. And then Harry didn't attend the Prince Philip Thanksgiving Service either.....allegedly over "Security" Issues.

Now that the Sussex's have children, and are seeing firsthand Harry's Cousins young children grow and interact wonderfully with each other AND George, Charlotte and Louis, maybe they will *try* to reevaluate and reconnect with The Family. Make amends.
I hope for Harry's sake he can find a path. And also for his children too.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I think it could be flipped as well, whatever the reason is, I'm pretty sure Harry doesn't trust much of his family anymore. Even before the O interview, some of his things like his exit plan, made it to The Sun. He has just as much reason to be weary.

And as much as I think people want Harry to spill dirt so they can yell at him for it, I'd be funnier (and more likely) that he he side-steps most of his family other than, this is my dad, mom, and etc. He has stories from his gap year, the army and etc. The family might get a nice dedication and that's it.

They are apparently trying to keep a low profile and are currently not feeding the media speculations. However, stories about this weekend may be leaked out or revealed in the future. For now, the focus should be on the Queen and the monarchy. They seem to be respecting that.

 

[Somebody]

It seems there were very strict rules put in place for Harry and Meghan to abide be to be allowed to participate in some activities over the jubilee weekend. They are still members of the royal family and as such are welcome just like other family members but they seem to have very clear directions in terms of what they can and cannot do if they want to be invited back another time.

In addition, everything was arranged in such a way that no public interaction has to take place between Harry (and Meghan) and his father or brother (nor their wives/children) - either during Trooping or during the Thanksgiving Service. So, in that sense he has put his stamp on these celebrations by influencing who was allowed on the balcony and in terms of the seating for the Thanksgiving service.

So far, it seems, the family is handling this delicate situation well.

 

[Durham]

It seems there were very strict rules put in place for Harry and Meghan to abide be to be allowed to participate in some activities over the jubilee weekend.

So far, it seems, the family is handling this delicate situation well.

Yes I agree.

What puzzled me was why H&M processed in St Paul's on their own accompanied by a military officer.

This did not happen with The Earl of Wessex or The Princess Royal (as far as I could tell so I could be wrong here.). Or indeed with the other "non working" members of the rf.

 

[Mbruno]

(double post; not sure why but TRF has been really slow in posting posts since yesterday)

For the Sussexes' social standing and branding in the US, it is important to be seen with the Royal Family during official Jubilee events. Harry must be feeling a bit sidelined though by this "low profile" that was imposed to hm and his wife, but, to be fair, he brought it on himself.

 

[Somebody]

Yes I agree.

What puzzled me was why H&M processed in St Paul's on their own accompanied by a military officer.

This did not happen with The Earl of Wessex or The Princess Royal (as far as I could tell). Or with the other "non working" members of the rf.

That was indeed really weird and imho unnecessary (probably the argument was that it was needed for security reasons?). This was especially apparent when they arrived at their row/seats after the more senior royals and other family members were already seated and Beatrice, Edo, Eugenie and Jack had to let them pass, meaning the four of them had to get up from their seats into the aisle to let them get to their seats - because of their assigned seats in the middle of the second isle on the opposite site of the most senior royals (so they wouldn't be seated/photographed behind them) and to make sure that Harry and Meghan were not seated at the aisle but safely behind the York-sisters as buffer zone.

For the Sussexes' social standing and branding in the US, it is important to be seen with the Royal Family during official Jubilee events. Harry must be feeling a bit sidelined though by this "low profile" that was imposed to hm and his wife, but, to be fair, he brought it on himself.

Very much so, they had to give in to the demands of the court (PoW) regarding this visit to keep that public connection with the British Royal Family which they need for their 'brand'.

 

[Mbruno]

That was indeed really weird and imho unnecessary (probably the argument was that it was needed for security reasons?). This was especially apparent when they arrived at their row/seats after the more senior royals and other family members were already seated and Beatrice, Edo, Eugenie and Jack had to let them pass, meaning the four of them had to get up from their seats into the isle to let them get to their seats - because of their assigned seats in the middle of the second isle on the opposite site of the most senior royals (so they wouldn't be seated/photographed behind them) and to make sure that Harry and Meghan were not seated at the isle but safely behind the York-sisters as buffer zone.

The British Court protocol has been somewhat erratic for quite some time. The order of precedence and seating plans have been all over the place and, yesterday, there was this strange dress code with orders worn with morning suit which, as our expert WBenson mentioned in another thread, only happened twice (yesterday and at Prince Philip's funeral).

We know that military uniform was supposed to be worn at Prince Philip's funeral, but they opted for morning suit with orders to accomodate Harry. I don't think uniforms were expected at the cathedral service (as WBenson also mentioned, plain morning suit without decorations was worn at the Diamond Jubilee Service), but could Prince Harry's presence have influenced the dress code?

 

[Stefan]

We know that military uniform was supposed to be worn at Prince Philip's funeral, but they opted for morning suit with orders to accomodate Harry. I don't think uniforms were expected at the cathedral service (as WBenson also mentioned, plain morning suit without decorations was worn at the Diamond Jubilee Service), bit could Prince Harry's presence have influenced the dress code?

At the Golden Jubilee however Uniform where worn at last by Charles and Philip. Don't remember if the other royal Men also wore Uniforms back then.

 

[Durham]

Uniforms were also worn at the silver jubilees of 1977 & 1935. I think they add greatly to the dignity of the occasion.

 

[Stefan]

Uniforms were also worn at the silver jubilees of 1977 & 1935. I think they add greatly to the dignity of the occasion.

Of course they do. Perhaps it had to that there were no Carriage prcoession's for the 2 recent Jubilee's which i think was a Pity.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

The British Court protocol has been somewhat erratic for quite some time. The order of precedence and seating plans have been all over the place and, yesterday, there was this strange dress code with orders worn with morning suit which, as our expert WBenson mentioned in another thread, only happened twice (yesterday and at Prince Philip's funeral).

We know that military uniform was supposed to be worn at Prince Philip's funeral, but they opted for morning suit with orders to accomodate Harry. I don't think uniforms were expected at the cathedral service (as WBenson also mentioned, plain morning suit without decorations was worn at the Diamond Jubilee Service), but could Prince Harry's presence have influenced the dress code?

Fairly certain that had more to do with Andrew who was allegedly very intent on wearing admiral uniform to the funeral.

 

[Durham]

Of course they do. Perhaps it had to that there were no Carriage prcoession's for the 2 recent Jubilee's which i think was a Pity.

Carriages were used in 2012. From Westminster Hall to BP. But yes it's a shame none are to be used this year other than the three barouches on Thursday. And the barouches are used at every trooping anyway.

 

[Granada]

I guess I thought there would-could have been "a moment" if Charles and Harry had locked eyes or nodded to each as Charles exited St Paul's Cathedral.
Still absolutely amazes me that things and relationships turned so bleak and negative in such a short time.
If anyone had ever suggested to me four years ago that this rift would have played out this way I never would have believed it could happen.
Never.

 

[muriel]

You didn't imagine it, I noticed as well that the warmth between Harry and his Phillips cousins wasn't quite there as he was leaving the cathedral. I think the whole family are rather nervous that they will feature in his upcoming book and just don't trust him anymore.

You were not the only ones to notice the somewhat muted conversation between Zara, Peter, Harry and Meghan. And to be fair to Z&P, given all that has happened in the last few years, there are probably some deep wounds there.

 

[SiennaMonet]

I don’t think they’re as dependent on being being seen with the royals as much as some want them to be.

As for the basket thing, I’m sure it’s more of them coming at the request of The Queen more than anything else.

I’m pretty sure strict rules were also put in place for the family. All family members. Harry & Meghan were clearly happy yesterday, if not with some nerves and the others were happy with whichever group they were with. So whatever was worked out, it was for the best.

I don’t believe they met with Charles for the quick visit, as it was confirmed by them that they saw The Queen, no mention of Charles but there was the word they met with Charles yesterday morning.

They are apparently trying to keep a low profile and are currently not feeding the media speculations. However, stories about this weekend may be leaked out or revealed in the future. For now, the focus should be on the Queen and the monarchy. They seem to be respecting that.

They’ve managed to do that so far. And they are, I’m glad everyone is respecting that. And the biggest reason seems to be because Harry & Meghan haven’t told anyone their plans. There were talks that while they were confirmed for the Jubilee, the palace couldn’t get a pulse on anything they’d be doing. An the fact that we even know that, is because palace-adjacent people are talking. Just like the visit with The Queen, because no one knew about it, it couldn’t leak.


On a fun note for Lili & Archies birthdays, fans are raising funds again and I just checked and so far they’re at $75,000 for WCK, I think the goal is 100.000 if it can happen.


And very lastly, I hope to see H&M at one more event so I can get pictures before we go into drought mode again.

 

[muriel]

I guess I thought there would -could have been "a moment" if Charles and Harry had locked eyes or nodded to each as Charles exited St Paul's Cathedral.
Still absolutely amazes me that things and relationships turned so bleak and negative in such a short time.
If anyone had ever suggested to me four years ago that this rift would have played out this way I never would have believed it could happen.
Never.

I think the lack of public interaction between H&M and C&C, W&C may have been a designed to avoid all the public analysis of the interaction. I do not think it is necessarily indicative of a particularly bad relationship or lack of contact. It has been reported that H&M have already met with C&C privately, but it is difficult to tell if that is actually true or just speculation in the DM.

 

[Stefan]

Carriages were used in 2012. From Westminster Hall to BP. But yes it's a shame none are to be used this year other than the three barouches on Thursday. And the barouches are used at every trooping anyway.

What i meant is that there was no big Carriage procession to St. Pauls like in 1977 and 2002. What we got in 2012 is that what we usually get for Trooping a bit extended.

 

[muriel]

What i meant is that there was no big Carriage procession to St. Pauls like in 1977 and 2002. What we got in 2012 is that what we usually get for Trooping a bit extended.

I do not think there is public appetite for a long carriage procession across central London, with all the attendant traffic disruption. The area between the Abbey and BP is fine, it is well contained. The route to St Pauls is much longer.

 

[Granada]

SiennaMonet, it has been reported that on the stop-over visit to Windsor, before the Invictus Games that Harry and Megan did see the the Queen, as well as Charles.
Reportedly, they met Charles first and were also late. Then, after that brief meeting, met the Queen.

 

[Heavs]

I think the lack of public interaction between H&M and C&C, W&C may have been a designed to avoid all the public analysis of the interaction. I do not think it is necessarily indicative of a particularly bad relationship or lack of contact. It has been reported that H&M have already met with C&C privately, but it is difficult to tell if that is actually true or just speculation in the DM.

I think it was done partly to avoid a repeat of the 2020 Commonwealth Day service play out in the media and take the focus off HM and partly to avoid any usable Netflix footage of the Sussexes with senior royals. It even seemed like the Yorks were being used as a buffer on the end of the aisle and that's why they didn't just budge up.

I think if it was just for public presentation then at least some of the RRs would have "leaked" that things are better BTS but they haven't, it seems every paper ran headlines about "The Rift" being the same as ever. Mike in particular looked like he basically blanked them whilst Zara talked to him for a few seconds.

We really don't know what goes on BTS but it does seem like their public participation in the Jubilee is being strictly controlled and given that they originally got upset at not being on par with the Cambridges (along with opening the window) I think it's not necessarily their idea to be "low profile" but obviously we can't know for sure. I hope things are as cordial as they can be for everyone's sake, but it must be difficult to forget about Harry's book and their Netflix show.

 

[Stefan]

I do not think there is public appetite for a long carriage procession across central London, with all the attendant traffic disruption. The area between the Abbey and BP is fine, it is well contained. The route to St Pauls is much longer.

But wouldn't there be less traffic on a National Holiday. And then it is a special occasion which happens not too often.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I guess I thought there would-could have been "a moment" if Charles and Harry had locked eyes or nodded to each as Charles exited St Paul's Cathedral.
Still absolutely amazes me that things and relationships turned so bleak and negative in such a short time.
If anyone had ever suggested to me four years ago that this rift would have played out this way I never would have believed it could happen.
Never.

How can we be absolutely certain that there has been no private interaction whatsoever between Charles and his youngest son?

I just don't accept that if something doesn't happen on camera, it didn't happen at all.