The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 10: August 2024 -

[Maryrose]

Many major businesses have also failed with trademarking. Apple, Prada, Nestle, Burger King and Adidas are some very well known brands. It’s something they can work around.

 

[muriel]

Many major businesses have also failed with trademarking. Apple, Prada, Nestle, Burger King and Adidas are some very well known brands. It’s something they can work around.

How many of them launched their brand without having the intellectual property secured?

 

[HenRach Dominion]

What will happen to the Sussexes if American Riviera Orchard fails?

 

[carlota]

This business has really not been thought through, has it? No CEO, an issue with the intellectual property, no real products. Not quite sure what the hurry to launch the brand was, unless it was just a need to get some publicity, and to shoot oneself in the foot in the process.

classical sussex modus operandi. just a hodge podge of never (properly) executed propositions.

 

[Mirabel]

What will happen to the Sussexes if American Riviera Orchard fails?

They'll try something else!
They seem to start a new enterprise every time they turn around.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

Heck, with the Duchess of Sussex's "political aspirations", having a couple of failed businesses may be the first step in becoming President of the United States.

 

[Toledo]

And this is generally why place names can’t be trademarked- it’s unfair to other businesses in the area who may be prevented from advertising their location if they have a product that competes.

I think Meghan rushed to publicize this business to take advantage of the news cycle when it was focused on why Catherine was “missing,” but before we knew it was for a sad and serious reason. I think that decision has backfired spectacularly because the business wasn’t even close to ready to launch.

@HRHHermione One repeated error I noticed, and others also imply it here, is the projects she comes up with are not even half baked but at the development stage. And I point it to Meghan because Harry always gives me the impression he's a follower and not a starter on these camp Sussex projects.

But, to put responsibility where it belongs, as a business couple they fail to get the notion when you request a trademark for a business in the making it might take over a year for the Federal agency to assign the trademark lawyer for the case review. On the website they do warn you the Federal agency has limited staff, and your application today won't be seen for months to over a year. Had she reviewed her application regularly she would have received the message due to lack of staff "we are now revieing the month of June 2023..."
That's the clue needed NOT to mention the American Riviera Orchard name in absolutely no website or social media event, not even in conversation with friends. Why? Because until she gets the reply from the USA Trademark office, almost a year after the application was filed, she can't start promoting the name.

And is anyone in here in the know if all these physical products are in progress somewhere for real? I mean, if you want to do a physical product, let's say cookbooks, linens, and food from an American Riviera Orchards brand, have they arranged the location, building, machinery, staff involved to produce them?

From the BBC: What is American Riviera Orchard, Meghan's mysterious lifestyle brand?

"...It remains unclear what exactly she is selling - but internet sleuths scouring pending US trademark applications have found that American Riviera Orchards plans to sell cookbooks and home goods such as decanters and kitchen linens, as well as foods including marmalade and jellies."​

Do they have a brand scout looking for locations and kitchen machinery to contract for the business to start as soon as the Trademark clears? Are the linens going to be produced by little old lady seamstresses in California or labor in a factory overseas?

I got the bad feeling is always someone else's problem to find how Meghan's dream projects come to life, but with not much involvement from her or Harry except their faces on social media. Working for them has to be an experience you'll avoid writing on your resume.

 

[Maryrose]

How many of them launched their brand without having the intellectual property secured?

Not sure but my point was that this happens a lot more than people suspect here in the USA.

 

[Maryrose]

They'll try something else!
They seem to start a new enterprise every time they turn around.

Hey Thomas Edison had over 1000 attempts before he got the light bulb to work...hopefully they will be successful before that.

 

[Toledo]

Not sure but my point was that this happens a lot more than people suspect here in the USA.

The risk of launching a brand without having the trademark name cleared first is the other business with a similar name can take you to court, especially if we are getting celebrities involved. Harry and Meghan would be a lightning rod for infringement lawsuits if they use an existing or similar company name.

Now my suspicion is why not use in the USA the Sussex Royale monicker or any alternative of their name on these products? Take the case of another celebrity, Ryan Reynolds' phone business. He bought a company, Mint Mobile, re-launched it with that name and became a success without using his name on the brand. End result: He just sold it to T-Mobile for 1.35 billion dollars. Jay-Cee and Beyonce did the same years ago with a record company only for mega stars, and when it was all solid and everyone tied up on contracts, he sold it.

By Meghan using names you can't associate with her directly like Markle Goat Soap Mall, Windsor Linnen Wonders, Sussex Royale Jelly Jams, etc. I suspect the intent was or is to launch and then sell the company if profitable. A lot like flipping houses for profit. That gives me the idea maybe she should try real estate next like every California celebrity is doing.

 

[Maryrose]

Thanks Toledo for sharing your thoughts. Think a big issue is that American Riviera is associated specifically with the area they live in and that if people bought her products they would expect everything made to be from the American Riviera.

 

[Hallo girl]

I understand a pre launch build up, a little bit of mystery to attract attention, but that did not happen. It was a full launch of the website, encouraging people to sign up for the latest information. Then there was the jams and dog biscuits.
Why not wait until everything was in place, a teaser for a couple of weeks then go for it. I hope they have not went ahead and placed orders for goods with the name as that will be a waste of money, unless of course it is the stickly on labels that appeared to come off quite easily.

 

[Hallo girl]

Thanks Toledo for sharing your thoughts. Think a big issue is that American Riviera is associated specifically with the area they live in and that if people bought her products they would expect everything made to be from the American Riviera.

So for example if is was a pot of strawberry jam or orange preserve or lemon juice, if it had the name American riviera , then people would expect the fruit etc all to be from that area.
That could cause real problems, seasonal fruit etc, unless they could set it up as fruit from ? but bottled here at American Riviera.

 

[Prinsara]

Now my suspicion is why not use in the USA the Sussex Royale monicker or any alternative of their name on these products?

Same reason they couldn't have social media with that name or call Archewell that. BP (not to mention a lot of the British population) would scream. And they have scarier lawyers.

Their whole deal is that they are not allowed to use the titles/BRF commercially, and while the Palace has been relatively fine with Harry working for BetterUp as "Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex" or Meghan lobbying as the Duchess, I'd think cheap "royale-esque" names to flog whatever would be about the limit.

Talk about infringement...

 

[Maryrose]

So for example if is was a pot of strawberry jam or orange preserve or lemon juice, if it had the name American riviera , then people would expect the fruit etc all to be from that area.
That could cause real problems, seasonal fruit etc, unless they could set it up as fruit from ? but bottled here at American Riviera.

From my understanding from what I’ve read is that American Riviera is technically a place or area and you can’t trademark a place. One of the objections to the trademark of a place is due to the products sold. American trademark laws are a minefield to get through. Also it would be an issue with others in the American Riviera area selling their own products. An example I read was that a pizzeria owner in Cincinnati cannot trademark his pizzeria as Cincinnati Pizza. He can call it that but you can’t trademark the name.My son studied law and trademark law he said had so many strict usage of words and symbols that you would never even think could be a problem. Technical and beyond my understanding but I hope that helps.

 

[Hallo girl]

From my understanding from what I’ve read is that American Riviera is technically a place or area and you can’t trademark a place. One of the objections to the trademark of a place is due to the products sold. American trademark laws are a minefield to get through. Also it would be an issue with others in the American Riviera area selling their own products. An example I read was that a pizzeria owner in Cincinnati cannot trademark his pizzeria as Cincinnati Pizza. He can call it that but you can’t trademark the name.My son studied law and trademark law he said had so many strict usage of words and symbols that you would never even think could be a problem. Technical and beyond my understanding but I hope that helps.

Thank you that is really interesting, I know very little about UK regulations regarding trademarks so I have no chance with laws from other countries.

 

[Asteria12]

I think Meghan put the horse before the cart and jumped in! Hopefully she's learned a lesson that she can apply to future money-making endeavours.

 

[Maryrose]

I think Meghan put the horse before the cart and jumped in! Hopefully she's learned a lesson that she can apply to future money-making endeavours.

She can go forward using the name American Riviera Orchard and sell her products under that name. She just can't trademark it. I am sure her attorneys knew it would be a stretch but why not try.

 

[Toledo]

Thanks, Toledo, for sharing your thoughts. Think a big issue is that American Riviera is associated specifically with the area they live in and that if people bought her products, they would expect everything made to be from the American Riviera.

and

So, for example, if it was a pot of strawberry jam or orange preserve or lemon juice, if it had the name American riviera, then people would expect the fruit etc. all to be from that area.
That could cause real problems, seasonal fruit etc., unless they could set it up as fruit from? but bottled here at American Riviera.

My concern on the above is that if the area they reside in, the exclusive Montecito manors, are not authorized as commercial use properties then Meghan can't build a mini factory in her yard, behind the chickens and the neighbors' fences, and have staff arrive by bus daily to package products.

For example, on what I remember involving food products, if she packaged food products in her kitchen like jams or other preserves and either gifted them away or sold them from her kitchen, that's like a home-based business similar to baking and selling cakes. Not many rules apply except don't make people sick.

But if she manufactured products in large amounts for a profit, she would need to be in a commercial zoning area or separate a section of her home as office/manufacturing area to claim in her business taxes. And if she goes full scale, she can't produce food products of her kitchen without the mandatory labels and warnings you see in anything you buy at a store. You know, a list of ingredients, expiration dates, etc. For example, in the USA anyone can make a great BBQ sauce recipe and bottle it. But for selling at a major scale, it it's required to use a commercial kitchen and apply all the rules and labels from the Federal government on food to protect the consumer ingesting what you put on that bottle.

Meghan can't convert her mansion into a factory, although it would be great if she did so Harry can clock in some hours.

I think Meghan put the horse before the cart and jumped in! Hopefully she's learned a lesson that she can apply to future money-making endeavors.

It's sweet from you to think that she learns from these lessons on starting a business. For me she failed twice on the very first step, to wait for the trademark name to clear before announcing it out in the open. As of now she has two strikes, the podcast name and the American Riviera Orchards name.

 

[Asteria12]

@Toledo one can only hope she learns eventually, or if not, finds something else to do!

 

[Hallo girl]

She can go forward using the name American Riviera Orchard and sell her products under that name. She just can't trademark it. I am sure her attorneys knew it would be a stretch but why not try.

I am a bit confused now, it does not take much I know, so she can still sell products under the name, American Riviera Orchard but she cannot trade mark it.....So why can she not just go ahead and sell the products or do they have to be made in the area or the fruit grown there, or could she just use abbreviations and call the business ARO>
The way I was reading things she couldn't use the name at all.

 

[Maryrose]

She doesn't need to trademark the name in order to call it ARO and sell the products under that name.
Hope this info helpsursuant to well established US trademark law, geographic terms or signs are not registrable as trademarks. If they are geographically descriptive or geographically misdiscriptive of the origin of goods or services.

 

[Hallo girl]

She doesn't need to trademark the name in order to call it ARO and sell the products under that name.
Hope this info helpsursuant to well established US trademark law, geographic terms or signs are not registrable as trademarks. If they are geographically descriptive or geographically misdiscriptive of the origin of goods or services.

Thank you

 

[Queen Claude]

She can go forward using the name American Riviera Orchard and sell her products under that name. She just can't trademark it. I am sure her attorneys knew it would be a stretch but why not try.

I get the point that American Riviera Orchard can do business without the trademark as other business have done, but I am perplexed why the attorneys would pursue the trademark when it was a stretch, especially with such a high profile and scrutinized client.

 

[Maryrose]

I get the point that American Riviera Orchard can do business without the trademark as other business have done, but I am perplexed why the attorneys would pursue the trademark when it was a stretch, especially with such a high profile and scrutinized client.

Let me apologize for that smiley face thing that hit up in my quote.
People attempt to trademark things all the time. For example Taylor Swift attempted to trademark 1989. Its not that farfetched that they would attempt to trademark ARO but it is not this huge setback .

 

[Queen Claude]

Many major businesses have also failed with trademarking. Apple, Prada, Nestle, Burger King and Adidas are some very well known brands. It’s something they can work around.

I was intrigued by this and did some googling and thus far Apple, Prada, Nestle do have trademarks. I was surprised about Apple because it is so ubiquitous.

Apple, the Apple logo, Apple TV, iPad, iPhone, iTunes, and Mac are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries and regions.​

Copyright

I did not go too deep but I am seeing where Prada and Nestle have been involved in trademark disputes over logos and shapes, but I think the core names have been registered, but I am not 100% sure. In Nestle's case the dispute is over their KitKat product. In Prada's case, while they have been able to do multiple registrations of the triangle shape, they've also been denied being able to trademark specific representations of the triangle.

I get that an entity can do business without a trademark, but it seems like it is fairly well established about geographical names. I was going to ask if geographical trademarks get granted but then I remembered there is a well known example from my neck of the woods, the Vidalia onion, but an onion can only be named a Vidalia onion if it is grown in a certain part of the state of Georgia.

I assume that Meghan will be able to do business even if she does not get the trademark, although I am not sure if this is not an opportunity to rethink the ten-syllabled American Riviera Orchard brand name. I have been wondering for years why Meghan just does not re-launch The Tig. My armchair analysis is that relaunching The Tig is her best bet to hit the ground running and from there she can eventually branch out. For example I would assume that The Tig would be more mid-market / slightly upscale targeted and if at some point she wants to branch in the luxury category, that is where ARO would come in, she has actually locked down the americanriviera . com domain name.

 

[Maryrose]

I agree about the name Queen Claude. It is a mouthful to say but maybe going forward it will be known as ARO since we now know what it stands for.

 

[Toledo]

I get the point that American Riviera Orchard can do business without the trademark as other business have done, but I am perplexed why the attorneys would pursue the trademark when it was a stretch, especially with such a high profile and scrutinized client.

My suspicion, with these enterprises Meghan has been crafting around since she lived in the UK, is a big reason not to use her name(s) as part of the business name could be the intent to sell it later for profit.

For example, if Meghan made a biz called Meghan's Morsels, Markle's Markers, Harry's Hair Club Spray-in-a-Can, etc. and produced great revenues, another major company won't buy it off her at a profit and carry on with the very personal product name.

Celebrities like JLo, Jay-Cee and Beyonce, Ryan Reynolds, George Clooney, Brad Pitt and ex-Angelina Jolie buy small businesses back and forth to push sales and then sell it for profit. And to do so they need to keep the name universal and get that trademark in solid ground as part of the sale package.

That's why I assume her emphasis on securing the trademark looks directed at the future step of selling the business later for an even larger profit. Very savvy and smart of her because she's thinking on securing her financial future. Problem I see is she just can't shut up with the need to be in the news about half-baked projects with a lot of talk and little following up.

It's ok to keep her name on the news, but when it relates to on-going projects, she should follow the path of Hollywood A-Listers that never mention anything about a project or movie until all parts are completed. Be it a trademark, filming, etc. In the USA is called having a poker face if asked on what is she working on. And I do mean she only because I see her as the brains of the Montecito brand. To her credit, she is constantly on the mood for working, regardless of if she's just going in circles with no clear direction out of it. Harry feels more in the lines of being her follower or spousal traveling entourage.

 

[Alison H]

You can't usually trademark a place name in the UK either, The system in the UK is that trademarks are supposed to distinguish a product from anything similar. So you couldn't register London Jam, because lots of places in London might make jam. Or Strawberry Jam, because lots of types of jam contain strawberries. Or even John Smith's Jam, because lots of people are called John Smith! However, you can set up a company called London Jam Limited or whatever, as long as there isn't already a company with that name. You just can't trademark it.

 

[Emmily]

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Better luck next time, BRW, it took me minutes to find all the above that comes as close as possible to explain the problem she encountered, and I'm not even a trademark lawyer. Whoever she paid for this owes her an apology for not fighting against her temperament to make her understand trademark rules are enforced for a reason.

No one owes her an apology! She loses staff for a reason and the reason is her insistence that things be done HER way.