State Visit from the President of the United States: June 3-5, 2019

[Muhler]

it´s interesting to read that, especially american posters, desperately try to explain that Harry not attending this banquet had nothing to do with Trump as a person and that this had only to do with his wife having given birth 1 month ago. You wish...!
Almost everyone of us "know" about Prince Harrys character and personality; everything he believes in, every cause important to him - or his wife- are in deep contradiction to the current US president. On top of that this president insulted his beloved wife before!

So why would it be so unthinkable to you that he simply didn´t want to be there - especially as he had done his duty by attending the lunch - his grandmother not insisting on it...?!

As none of us, I believe.., can read Harry's mind anything is possible.
Let us for the sake of argument imagine that Harry really can't stand the sight of President Trump and that he deeply resents the Presidents because of his wife's opinion and for what the President said about her.
I cannot, I simply cannot imagine, a seasoned and professional royal as Harry letting that influence his behavior in something as important as a state visit.
The thought that he would make things awkward for his grandmother is even more remote from my mind.

Unless President Trump insulted Harry's mother, wife or grandmother to his face, Harry is professional enough to smile and nod politely and play the game.

I think there is too much speculation into how Harry might feel or whether Harry snubbed President Trump or not.
Given Harry's place in the royal hierarchy it is simply not Harry's main job to entertain or go into lengthy conversations with visiting heads of states. That's a job that his grandmother, father or stepmother has.

let us not fall for the temptation to explain what can be pure coincidence with malice.

 

[Pranter]

I don't know why folks have to keep dragging the Sussexes into this. Harry has been to I think ONE other State Dinner in the U.K. ...it's not like he's gone faithfully for years and now all the sudden didn't go.

I've read some commentary that it's not even a sure thing they will (no matter who the guest is) go to all of them in the future. If the Queen wanted Harry to go he would of gone. She didn't so he didn't. Why make it into some sort of big ordeal?


LaRae

 

[Mbruno]

A
Given Harry's place in the royal hierarchy it is simply not Harry's main job to entertain or go into lengthy conversations with visiting heads of states. That's a job that his grandmother, father or stepmother has.

Why does the Queen invite people like her cousins who are 48th and 53rd in line to the throne to state banquets like that and wouldn't invite Harry who is a working royal now and 6th in line ?

 

[Lumutqueen]

State Visit by the President of the United States: June 3-5, 2019

The President has given an exclusive interview to Piers Morgan in the Churchill War Rooms. It’s to air tomorrow morning on GMB.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1135923426353221633

 

[Fijiro]

Why does the Queen invite people like her cousins who are 48th and 53rd in line to the throne to state banquets like that and wouldn't invite Harry who is a working royal now and 6th in line ?

IMO She invited Harry for lunch, and invited William&Kate for Dinner - it is called division of labour. Most of those Royals who were at the Banquet were not at the Lunch.

And if Harry was snubbing Trump as it has been suggested, the banquet would've been a better option than lunch, since the banquet is a bigger group and you probably do not have to interact at all.

 

[Zaira]

Why does the Queen invite people like her cousins who are 48th and 53rd in line to the throne to state banquets like that and wouldn't invite Harry who is a working royal now and 6th in line ?

I dont think the poster was saying that Harry should not or will not be taking part in these events, just that its the job of the host (the Queen) or and to a lesser extent, her heir (Charles) to take the lead on entertaining visiting leaders at these sorts of events. Will and Kate, for example, rarely do events with visiting leaders during state visits yet because that largely falls to Charles/Camilla and the Queen's children for now.

This is all very circular. The point is that sometimes royals sit out all or parts of state visits, even Charles has. The why or the personal feelings involved are just speculation at this juncture.

 

[CTchic]

Looks like Trump is giving his old buddy Piers Morgan another interview. A creature of habit this president.

 

[jacqui24]

Good grief. Meghan hasn't made one appearance this whole visit, and she's been talked about more than most royals that did attend. Can we just leave her be?

As for Harry, if his presence is required, he'll be there. If not, he won't. It's that simple.

 

[Muhler]

Why does the Queen invite people like her cousins who are 48th and 53rd in line to the throne to state banquets like that and wouldn't invite Harry who is a working royal now and 6th in line ?

Fill for foreign guests, who are not important enough, protocol and otherwise, to be seated (so to speak) next to Harry?

And perhaps #47 was not invited and #54 couldn't make it?

 

[Zaira]

Question for the historians here: has the queen hosted state dinners at Windsor? and if so, when was the last time?

 

[ladyjolene]

Is there list of how the royals and who they escort to dinner are organized?

 

[ladongas]

Some Pictures I’ve not seen elsewhere

https://www.eonline.com/news/104653...ident-donald-trump-at-state-banquet-in-london

 

[tommy100]

State Banquets alway involve a large number of royals as they are seated so that no one at the dinner is ever more than a few seats from a member of the RF.

At present the Cambridge and Sussex's are adding to the usual number of Royals present hence why IMO the Queen is a little more relaxed than them attending.

Also at present Harry is still settling down with Meghan and Archie after the birth and I think HM QE2 is very accepting that, as there are plenty of other royals on hand to help, this isn't an event that Harry's presence is required at. TBH I honestly think Harry's attendance at the lunch is an attempt by officials at least to show that the RF are above politics and to show that comments by Meghan before she was royal have no bearing on Harry & Meghan (Harry at least) and the wider RF attending events. It would have been perfectly accepted if they said H&M were on paternity/maternity leave so wouldn't attend.

 

[Zonk]

State Banquets alway involve a large number of royals as they are seated so that no one at the dinner is ever more than a few seats from a member of the RF.

At present the Cambridge and Sussex's are adding to the usual number of Royals present hence why IMO the Queen is a little more relaxed than them attending.

Also at present Harry is still settling down with Meghan and Archie after the birth and I think HM QE2 is very accepting that, as there are plenty of other royals on hand to help, this isn't an event that Harry's presence is required at. TBH I honestly think Harry's attendance at the lunch is an attempt by officials at least to show that the RF are above politics and to show that comments by Meghan before she was royal have no bearing on Harry & Meghan (Harry at least) and the wider RF attending events. It would have been perfectly accepted if they said H&M were on paternity/maternity leave so wouldn't attend.

Exactly! Just as William and Kate didn't attend state events when they first married, and had a slow start to royal engagements when their family was starting out. Its the same thing here. I mean, gosh....its only been a month since the baby was born!

 

[Lumutqueen]

Question for the historians here: has the queen hosted state dinners at Windsor? and if so, when was the last time?

She has indeed, the most recent being Ireland in 2014 but there was also the Qatar State Banquet in October 2010. One was also held there for the Polish President in 1991.

 

[tommy100]

Question for the historians here: has the queen hosted state dinners at Windsor? and if so, when was the last time?

Yes she has, the last I can recall at the moment was that of the President of Ireland in 2014 but there may well have been others since. It is not at all uncommon and hosting them at Windsor was I believe an idea of Prince Philip's (he talked about it during an interview in a documentary)

 

[Muhler]

State Banquets alway involve a large number of royals as they are seated so that no one at the dinner is ever more than a few seats from a member of the RF.

At present the Cambridge and Sussex's are adding to the usual number of Royals present hence why IMO the Queen is a little more relaxed than them attending.

Also at present Harry is still settling down with Meghan and Archie after the birth and I think HM QE2 is very accepting that, as there are plenty of other royals on hand to help, this isn't an event that Harry's presence is required at. TBH I honestly think Harry's attendance at the lunch is an attempt by officials at least to show that the RF are above politics and to show that comments by Meghan before she was royal have no bearing on Harry & Meghan (Harry at least) and the wider RF attending events. It would have been perfectly accepted if they said H&M were on paternity/maternity leave so wouldn't attend.

Yep!
The extended BRF are rolled out in force during this visit.
Logic. It's a visit by key ally. It's a crucial visit as Brexit is likely to end in a hard Brexit.
It's not a visit from Farawayland, where the president comes with an entourage of twenty.

 

[lucien]

Is there list of how the royals and who they escort to dinner are organized?

The one in charge of protocol solves that mystery at Court.

 

[tommy100]

Is there list of how the royals and who they escort to dinner are organized?

I think they place the royals in order of seniority and then pair them up with guests from the visiting delegation senior to least senior and where possible females with males etc (except HM who always walks with the visiting Head of State whether male or female.

 

[Zonk]

With the exception of the Trump children, I am not sure why everyone is making a big deal on how many people traveled with the President. That is the norm. Don't people recall seeing the BRF and SRF at other state visits with random Ministers and government officials? I do.

 

[lucien]

She has indeed, the Qatar State Banquet was at Windsor in October 2010. One was also held there for the Polish President in 1991.

Lech Walesa indeed!!I recall a documentary on the House of Windsor,or EII,specifically,that showed that state visit and how Lech Walesa was impressed by it all,and saw Princess Anne saying as much,the British Royals were delighted to host him of all people at the time,such a figurehead of freedom at the time.I'm sure that documentary,or parts of it,could be seen on Youtube maybe.

 

[Lumutqueen]

With the exception of the Trump children, I am not sure why everyone is making a big deal on how many people traveled with the President. That is the norm. Don't people recall seeing the BRF and SRF at other state visits with random Ministers and government officials? I do.

According to Richard Palmer, pinch of salt please, apparently the contingent travelling with The President on this occasion appears to be much smaller than those that have travelled with the Obamas and Bushes on previous occasions.

 

[Mbruno]

The President has given an exclusive interview to Piers Morgan in the Churchill War Rooms. It’s to air tomorrow morning on GMB.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1135923426353221633

That should be really interesting !

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Why does the Queen invite people like her cousins who are 48th and 53rd in line to the throne to state banquets like that and wouldn't invite Harry who is a working royal now and 6th in line ?

Maybe because Harry is still at the beginning of his career as a working royal and the Queen's cousins have been doing State Banquets for donkey's years--50 years or so.

 

[tommy100]

Yep!
The extended BRF are rolled out in force during this visit.
Logic. It's a visit by key ally. It's a crucial visit as Brexit is likely to end in a hard Brexit.
It's not a visit from Farawayland, where the president comes with an entourage of twenty.

In fairness a large number of royals attend every State Banquet, her cousins attend almost all of them as do most of her children except when they have other events to attend (or when Charles missed the Chinese state visit)

Every state banquet has the same number of guests, whether the USA where the president travelled to the UK with a 1000 staff, or the President of Farawayland and his 20. Where the visiting delegation is small more guests from the UK - government, politics, church leaders, business leaders etc - are invited so there are always 170ish guests. Its said that smaller visiting countries like that they are treated like larger ones, that everything is fair.

 

[Mbruno]

I think they place the royals in order of seniority and then pair them up with guests from the visiting delegation senior to least senior and where possible females with males etc (except HM who always walks with the visiting Head of State whether male or female.

I am always confused about the definition of seniority. Is it determined by precedence or by position in the line of succession ? The Duke of Cambridge always comes after the Queen and the Prince of Wales in the procession, but theoretically, as the Queen's grandson, shouldn't he have lower precedence than his uncles ?

I am pretty sure the experts here know the answer to those questions.


EDIT: I changed my original message because, after seeing the video, I realized I was mistaken about the Earl of Wessex and the Duke of York.

 

[Zonk]

According to Richard Palmer, pinch of salt please, apparently the contingent travelling with The President on this occasion appears to be much smaller than those that have travelled with the Obamas and Bushes on previous occasions.

Pinch of Salt indeed but that just proves my point! Government officials have always traveled with the President when traveling for official state visits. I seem to recall Madeline Albright went on a state visit with President Clinton to Mexico.

 

[Fijiro]

The President has given an exclusive interview to Piers Morgan in the Churchill War Rooms. It’s to air tomorrow morning on GMB.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1135923426353221633

If I was a betting person, I would bet that Prince Harry and Duchess Meghan's names will come up in this Trump/Morgan interview; and maybe even Master Archie's name.

They (Trump/Morgan) are so predictable.

 

[lucien]

Maybe because Harry is still at the beginning of his career as a working royal and the Queen's cousins have been doing State Banquets for donkey's years--50 years or so.

??? No,not.Becaus Harry just became a dad and he and his wife have other things more important on their minds,their son Archie.There is paternity leave in Europe for dads too..!!And he did show up at the welcome.so what?
Nothing special to be sought after in his attending or not.it has been explained...but hey OK,todays web goes bezirk over nothing while important things are,well,twisted out of courtesy where others don't even know the ABC of courtesy.?...Such a funny world these days..

 

[Lumutqueen]

I am always confused about the definition of seniority. Is it determined by precedence or by position in the line of succession ? The Duke of Cambridge always comes after the Queen and the Prince of Wales in the procession, but theoretically, as the Queen's grandson, shouldn't he have lower precedence than his uncles ?

I am pretty sure the experts here know the answer to those questions.


EDIT: I changed my original message because, after seeing the video, I realized I was mistaken about the Earl of Wessex and the Duke of York.

There's a good thread on OoP, which might answer some of your questions.