"Spare" memoir by the Duke of Sussex (2023)

[Moran]

IOW, Catherine was having "baby brain" when Meghan needed to undermine her opinion but she wasn't having baby brain when soon after given birth, she became the big mean bully who made poor defenseless Meghan cry. And gentle treatment to new mothers is something Meghan is keen on receiving but not giving.

I get it.

 

[_Heather_]

Yes, there were two separate incidents. One involving the row about bridesmaids dresses and the other where Meghan accused Kate of having “baby brain.”

What’s not clear is which incident transpired first.

What I can piece together is that the bridesmaids dress incident happened just prior to the wedding while the "baby brain" incident happened over tea when Meghan and Harry returned from the honeymoon so maybe June-ish.

 

[kimebear]

This rings true for me. I'm kind of stunned that Catherine wanted the dresses remade with so little time left before the wedding. I myself had something similar happen at my wedding, and couldn't believe my SIL was dictating how my bridesmaids should be dressed.

People do things they should not in tense situations like these, and I'd say it's to be expected. I don't think this is a big deal.

Except that Catherine's children, fairly or not, are the constant source of public interest, while most little wedding attendants are not.

Catherine knew, from years of experience, that if the Cambridge children were dressed sloppily at Harry and Meghan's wedding, the photos would be splashed all over the papers for days, weeks, etc, with hurtful comments made about them and their own parents being blamed for their appearance instead of the bride that chose the outfits.

Then we'd get a ton of stories about how William and Catherine chose to disrespect Harry and Meghan's wedding by letting their kids look like little urchins as a way to embarrass the bride and groom.

 

[Curbside]

Understandable imo given the amount of public attention on her children.

In this situation, you make your point and move on. It wasn't Catherine's wedding. IMO, there should not have been any "back and forth" over a detail of Meghan's wedding. I think it probably caused a lot of unnecessary drama for zero benefit.

Camila Tominey had this inaccurate story fed to her, and I wonder how, exactly, that happened.

 

[camelot23ca]

Reading the excerpts, I honestly feel as if someone's having me on. Is this really what's in Harry's book? It's not a red herring, or some kind of fake distraction, to keep us all talking until the actual book comes out?

I have so much second-hand embarrassment, I could open an embarrassment consignment store and sell it on to other people.

I actually had to read through a string of posts here a couple of times because I thought I had missed a joke where people started making their own fake excerpts to go along with the real ones from the book.

Some of this is unbelievable and I agree with others who have said they’ve found it unpleasant to read. It’s like when Britney Spears had her major mental health crisis years ago and it was all documented by the press - in the normal scheme of things I have nothing against watching celebrities make fools of themselves, but watching someone crash and burn is something else.

 

[sophie25]

They did. Though I don't think I would word it the same way. It appears to me that rather than "having to ask him to stop" this was a confrontation in which William pointed his finger at her and she, once again, became offended and snapped at him to "if he didn't mind, take his finger out of her face." Frankly, though it certainly wouldn't be my proudest moment, I'm not sure that I wouldn't have also pointed a finger at her as I told her directly that she was being rude.



They were. Charlotte's dress was clearly too big but hers certainly wasn't the only one of those dresses that didn't fit properly. They looked messy and sloppy compared to those in other royal weddings and, for the record, the no tights thing did appear overly casual for the style of the wedding.



Was it an overreaction, though? Catherine absolutely had the right to tell Meghan or anyone else that they weren't nearly close enough to her to speak about her hormones. This is equivalent to people wanting to touch your pregnant belly. You have the right to tell people they're out of line. Frankly, I see this as Catherine standing up for herself and William both backing her up and telling Meghan to her face what had clearly been the impression of her behavior for some time within the family.

It doesn't sound like Meghan was prying all that much about the topic, it seems like a lighthearted throw away remark. I'm not a fan Meghan Markle but I think that was really touchy of the Cambridges if they made a big deal about that.

 

[Curbside]

Except that Catherine's children, fairly or not, are the constant source of public interest, while most little wedding attendants are not.

Catherine knew, from years of experience, that if the Cambridge children were dressed sloppily at Harry and Meghan's wedding, the photos would be splashed all over the papers for days, weeks, etc, with hurtful comments made about them and their own parents being blamed for their appearance instead of the bride that chose the outfits.

Then we'd get a ton of stories about how William and Catherine chose to disrespect Harry and Meghan's wedding by letting their kids look like little urchins as a way to embarrass the bride and groom.

Whatever, it's not Catherine's wedding, and Meghan did offer a solution, then was put in a position of defending it.

I heard barely a murmur about how the bridesmaids dresses looked. I certainly don't recall a deluge of negative stories about the dresses for weeks on end.

 

[FigTree]

They did. Though I don't think I would word it the same way. It appears to me that rather than "having to ask him to stop" this was a confrontation in which William pointed his finger at her and she, once again, became offended and snapped at him to "if he didn't mind, take his finger out of her face." Frankly, though it certainly wouldn't be my proudest moment, I'm not sure that I wouldn't have also pointed a finger at her as I told her directly that she was being rude.



They were. Charlotte's dress was clearly too big but hers certainly wasn't the only one of those dresses that didn't fit properly. They looked messy and sloppy compared to those in other royal weddings and, for the record, the no tights thing did appear overly casual for the style of the wedding.



Was it an overreaction, though? Catherine absolutely had the right to tell Meghan or anyone else that they weren't nearly close enough to her to speak about her hormones. This is equivalent to people wanting to touch your pregnant belly. You have the right to tell people they're out of line. Frankly, I see this as Catherine standing up for herself and William both backing her up and telling Meghan to her face what had clearly been the impression of her behavior for some time within the family.

It's long been rumoured that there was endless indecisiveness to do with the dress and the little ones dresses. They all looked sloppy. Megjan herself too to be fair. The veil was beautiful but dress was rather ill fitting.

 

[_Heather_]

In this situation, you make your point and move on. It wasn't Catherine's wedding. IMO, there should not have been any "back and forth" over a detail of Meghan's wedding. I think it probably caused a lot of unnecessary drama for zero benefit.

Camila Tominey had this inaccurate story fed to her, and I wonder how, exactly, that happened.

Do we know that it was inaccurate, though? Given the amount of witnesses who would have been present it seems to me that it's likely Harry is conveniently leaving out the detail that Catherine also ended up in tears. While we don't know with absolute certainty that she did, it certainly seems likely that their spat may have involved Catherine in tears at the time with Meghan in tears later.

 

[FigTree]

Whatever, it's not Catherine's wedding, and Meghan did offer a solution, then was put in a position of defending it.

I heard barely a murmur about how the bridesmaids dresses looked. I certainly don't recall a deluge of negative stories about the dresses for weeks on end.

No one says anything on the day but then stories like this comes out and people look back and think oh yeah.

One of chief reasons to stay quiet.

 

[soapstar]

I’m actually curious about the finger thing because Harry doesn’t actually say that William stuck his finger in her face. His exact words were, he “pointed a finger at Meghan.” He does quote Meghan saying get your finger out of my face, but he doesn’t actually note that William was all up in her personal space.

If someone said something about my hormones that I wasn't close too I might think they were a being a bit forward but I wouldn't tell them that to their face. If Kate did tell her that and William pointed at Meghan and called her rude for saying it then that was surely a massive overreaction on their part.

I don’t see how it’s an overreaction. Meghan crossed the line with the comment and William and Kate told her so. Nothing wrong with setting boundaries and letting people know they’ve crossed them.

 

[Claire]

Interesting story -its seems that the Guardian was given a advanced copy from the publishers (by way of friendly journalists) in order to place the William knocked me into the dog bowl story. This was to be followed up by TMZ publishing pics of Harry walking his dog in order to keep them in the press to gear up the press for the interviews and the book next week.
The selling of the book in Spain has completely knocked over all the dominos. All the interviewers and their producers are running around. As is PRH and the Sussex's have gone quiet. There is a lot going on - the newspapers are running around.

 

[Sunnystar]

This rings true for me. I'm kind of stunned that Catherine wanted the dresses remade with so little time left before the wedding. I myself had something similar happen at my wedding, and couldn't believe my SIL was dictating how my bridesmaids should be dressed.



People do things they should not in tense situations like these, and I'd say it's to be expected. I don't think this is a big deal.

Honestly, as an experienced seamstress who has made PLENTY of formal dresses in 8-10 hours, I don't believe it is in any way unreasonable to expect that the bridesmaid dresses could be re-made in that short of a time frame, especially with seeing as they would have had access to however many highly skilled seamstresses were necessary to get the job done.

Again, this version doesn't give the full context of the whole situation. We don't know just how poor the fit of the dresses, specifically Charlotte's, was. And, as someone with 25+ years of experience crafting these type of dresses, I can assure you, sometimes it is far easier and faster to simply start over from scratch rather than make alterations to a dress.

I'm not going to fault Meghan for being dismissive of Catherine's concerns. I've been in that situation, as the seamstress, far too often, where someone who doesn't sew thinks that making alterations is the easier/simpler path when it isn't. I can believe that Meghan and Catherine had a misunderstanding/miscommunication because neither of them are experienced seamstresses and that they would have just been talking at each other, rather at cross-purposes, whereas had either Clare Wright Keller or Sarah Burton or some other experienced seamstress been part of the conversation, it could have gone much differently. As it is, I do appreciate that Catherine had the graciousness to apologize for the part she played in their disagreement. Weddings, or any other major event with formal dresses, can be quite stressful, and I'm inclined to think Catherine wanted ALL of the bridesmaids to look their best and not be a cause for criticism or complaint on Meghan's big day.

 

[_Heather_]

Isn't trying to get the bridesmaids looking their best good for Meghan as well - no one wants the press talking about ill made dresses on your big day.

You would certainly think so. The last thing any bride wants, especially in a high profile wedding situation, is for there to be talk of the dresses being sloppy and ill-fitting, rumblings about how they compare to those of other weddings of the same social class, etc. Rather than taking the advice of someone who had herself been in that position seven years earlier and had several years experience with the position, the press, and the family, Meghan chose to "do it her way" and while that was certainly her right, it did in fact lead to the commentary on the dresses, including her own. There was discussion regarding the fit and look of both Meghan's dress and those of the bridesmaids, how it was unusual for the children to have bare legs, etc.

 

[Curbside]

I’m actually curious about the finger thing because Harry doesn’t actually say that William stuck his finger in her face. His exact words were, he “pointed a finger at Meghan.” He does quote Meghan saying get your finger out of my face, but he doesn’t actually note that William was all up in her personal space.

I don’t see how it’s an overreaction. Meghan crossed the line with the comment and William and Kate told her so. Nothing wrong with setting boundaries and letting people know they’ve crossed them.

I think Meghan's words convey her irritation in that moment, at 6'3" William sticking his finger in 5'6" Meghan's face. For me, my initial reaction would be to feel intimidated.

 

[soapstar]

Do we know that it was inaccurate, though? Given the amount of witnesses who would have been present it seems to me that it's likely Harry is conveniently leaving out the detail that Catherine also ended up in tears. While we don't know with absolute certainty that she did, it certainly seems likely that their spat may have involved Catherine in tears at the time with Meghan in tears later.

Yep. The way the story is being told, it seems they both were left in tears.

 

[Erin9]

In this situation, you make your point and move on. It wasn't Catherine's wedding. IMO, there should not have been any "back and forth" over a detail of Meghan's wedding. I think it probably caused a lot of unnecessary drama for zero benefit.



Camila Tominey had this inaccurate story fed to her, and I wonder how, exactly, that happened.

Supposedly inaccurate story. This is only Harry’s version of events.

I’d hate to have so many of my alleged actions/words put under a microscope for public consumption like this based on one man’s stories. I feel sorry for the BRF.

 

[sophie25]

I’m actually curious about the finger thing because Harry doesn’t actually say that William stuck his finger in her face. His exact words were, he “pointed a finger at Meghan.” He does quote Meghan saying get your finger out of my face, but he doesn’t actually note that William was all up in her personal space.



I don’t see how it’s an overreaction. Meghan crossed the line with the comment and William and Kate told her so. Nothing wrong with setting boundaries and letting people know they’ve crossed them.

But I don't see it as a huge deal that merits pointing and calling someone rude. I think the Cambridges could be incredibly precious like that, they don't want anyone to even glance at them the wrong way and I've always thought that about them.

 

[soapstar]

I think Meghan's words convey her irritation in that moment, at 6'3" William sticking his finger in 5'6" Meghan's face. For me, my initial reaction would be to feel intimidating.

But again, we don’t know that William was in her face. Harry doesn’t say William was in his personal space. He only notes that William pointed a finger at her. Nor does he say that Meghan was intimidated by William.

 

[Ghost]

I hope the press are done with the reports, today was way too overwhelming.
All in all, IMO those who are the losers in this circus are those who’ve thrown so many unnecessary information into the public domain.

 

[Moran]

To be fair, the whole Daily Mail story doesn't make sense to me. It claims Meghan said that she remembered Catherine forgot something and at the time Meghan said it was because of her hormones. Catherine got offended during the second conversation but not the initial one when Meghan first spoke about her hormones?

Unless Catherine was being unusually restrained during that first occasion and not saying anything despite feeling offended, I see no logic. But this scenario doesn't seem all this probable to me.

 

[Curbside]

Honestly, as an experienced seamstress who has made PLENTY of formal dresses in 8-10 hours, I don't believe it is in any way unreasonable to expect that the bridesmaid dresses could be re-made in that short of a time frame, especially with seeing as they would have had access to however many highly skilled seamstresses were necessary to get the job done.

Again, this story doesn't give the full context of the story. We don't know just how poor the fit of the dresses, specifically Charlotte's, was. And, as someone with 25+ years of experience crafting these type of dresses, I can assure you, sometimes it is far easier and faster to simply start over from scratch rather than make alterations to a dress.

I'm not going to fault Meghan for being dismissive of Catherine's concerns. I've been in that situation, as the seamstress, far too often, where someone who doesn't sew thinks that making alterations is the easier/simpler path when it isn't. I can believe that Meghan and Catherine had a misunderstanding/miscommunication because neither of them are experienced seamstresses and that they would have just been talking at each other, rather at cross-purposes, whereas had either Clare Wright Keller or Sarah Burton or some other experienced seamstress been part of the conversation, it could have gone much differently. As it is, I do appreciate that Catherine had the graciousness to apologize for the part she played in their disagreement. Weddings, or any other major event with formal dresses, can be quite stressful, and I'm inclined to think Catherine wanted ALL of the bridesmaids to look their best and not be a cause for criticism or complaint on Meghan's big day.

So...Catherine was doing Meghan a favor by arguing over the bridesmaids dresses? Again, once Catherine made her point, she should have realized that she needed to step away from an argument with the bride. It's just common courtesy to let the bride have her preferences respected on her wedding day.

I'm not a professional seamstress but I have made most of my own clothes for the past 15 years, and I found Meghan's dress to be gorgeous. I thought the BMs looked fine as well.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I absolutely agree with you! The last time I checked (before Christmas), “sussexroyal” is still online and a lot of the “manifesto” hasn’t changed from when it first went up. Either they truly thought the HIHO plan would be approved without any problems OR they decided to get it out there and hope that BP would give them what they wanted - because in their minds they had become such superstars. But I hold Harry, not Meghan, responsible for failing to explain the hierarchy in a way she would hear it so that she would really understand that it would never really be “the Fab Four.”
If Harry truly thought that they could be “equal” in the firm to W & C - then somebody (his family of origin) did not make it clear to him. Had Diana lived, I trust/hope she would have helped Harry adjust to being equal in the family but not in the Firm. She was an aristocrat herself and certainly knew how things worked. I really wonder how/if others helped him understand his place after she died. Or maybe they were more concerned about his mental health and inappropriate behaviors….
It will be interesting to see if this becomes clearer in his book. I refuse to buy it myself -not wanting to give financial support - but I may see if I can get it from a library

 

[_Heather_]

To be fair, the whole Daily Mail story doesn't make sense to me. It claims Meghan said that she remembered Catherine forgot something and at the time Meghan said it was because of her hormones. Catherine got offended during the second conversation but not the initial one when Meghan first spoke about her hormones?

Unless Catherine was being unusually restrained during that first occasion and not saying anything despite feeling offended, I see no logic. But this scenario doesn't seem all this probable to me.

It was confusing in the way that it was written. I understood it to say that Catherine had been upset by it when it happened but that they were all sort of airing grievances at the June tea and when it was mentioned then Catherine felt that Meghan should have apologized. At that point Meghan said she talks to all of her friends that way and this is the point at which Catherine said they weren't close enough for that and William stated that it was rude. I'm interested to see how the book itself words the passage since these excerpts are put up quickly and can be a bit confusing.

 

[Curbside]

But again, we don’t know that William was in her face. Harry doesn’t say William was in his personal space. He only notes that William pointed a finger at her. Nor does he say that Meghan was intimidated by William.

She asked him to take his finger out of her face. I feel like this is an indicator of her discomfort.

 

[kimebear]

Whatever, it's not Catherine's wedding, and Meghan did offer a solution, then was put in a position of defending it.

Unfortunately Catherine, in her position, doesn't get to just say 'whatever' when it comes to the public image of her kids. George, Charlotte and Louis, especially since the Queen's death, are regularly photographed for public consumption and need to look presentable at all times, while Meghan has the luxury of hiding her children away in Montecito.

I think that's really the crux of this entire saga. Meghan simply refused to understand the confines of court structure and protocol (even between family members) and the harsh realities of maintaining a royal image. The very large differences between life at Buckingham Palace and life in Hollywood.

 

[Erin9]

But I don't see it as a huge deal that merits pointing and calling someone rude. I think the Cambridges could be incredibly precious like that, they don't want anyone to even glance at them the wrong way and I've always thought that about them.

Another question is: was this first “issue” between the couples? Or another in a long line?

I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer is more like the latter. If it even happened this way at all to begin with.

People don’t tend to just respond to the specific situation, but prior events also factor in.

 

[_Heather_]

So...Catherine was doing Meghan a favor by arguing over the bridesmaids dresses?

I would venture to say that it's likely Catherine was doing everyone a favor. She was saving Meghan the bad press that would come along with messy, sloppy, ill-fitted and ill-made dresses, comparisons, etc. along with making sure her own daughter was impeccably turned out. That it also would have allowed the other five girls to also look impeccable was an added bonus. Sometimes it does benefit one to listen to others with more experience in situations even if we like to be the "do it my own way" kind of person in all instances.

 

[Alison H]

I hope the press are done with the reports, today was way too overwhelming.
All in all, IMO those who are the losers in this circus are those who’ve thrown so many unnecessary information into the public domain.

Someone asked Sky News why so much time was being devoted to Harry's drivelling, in the middle of a cost of living crisis, the war in Ukraine, etc. The answer was that royal gossip attracts people's interest and always has done. I expect we'll get another few days of it, before it becomes fish and chip wrapping.

 

[Curbside]

Another question is: was this first “issue” between the couples? Or another in a long line?

I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer is more like the latter. If it even happened this way at all to begin with.

People don’t tend to just respond to the specific situation, but prior events also factor in.

That's true. We're still missing context by only getting snippets reported in the media that has not been kind to the Sussexes in their reporting.

I would venture to say that it's likely Catherine was doing everyone a favor. She was saving Meghan the bad press that would come along with messy, sloppy, ill-fitted and ill-made dresses, comparisons, etc. along with making sure her own daughter was impeccably turned out. That it also would have allowed the other five girls to also look impeccable was an added bonus. Sometimes it does benefit one to listen to others with more experience in situations even if we like to be the "do it my own way" kind of person in all instances.

Meghan did listen. Then made it clear she didn't agree. She's the bride and her wishes should be respected.

Someone asked Sky News why so much time was being devoted to Harry's drivelling, in the middle of a cost of living crisis, the war in Ukraine, etc. The answer was that royal gossip attracts people's interest and always has done. I expect we'll get another few days of it, before it becomes fish and chip wrapping.

Spilling royal tea sells content. I remember when one of the trailers dropped from the Netflix series, within 24 hours, the Daily Fail had published 50 or so stories about it.