Anna Anderson's claim to be Grand Duchess Anastasia

[tsarskoe]

Something I have just thought of. I wonder, that having been Catholic how much (if any) Latin would Franziska Schanzkowska have known? Latin being the root language of English I believe this question would be of interest with regards to the language argument.

 

[Shaiya]

I still say that AA was an alien. And we all know that aliens aren't Grand Duchesses or Polish factory workers!

But seriously, I don't think she was either Grand Duchess Anastasia or Franziska Schanzkowska. Maybe one day we'll find out who she really was.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Bumping one of my language quote posts for those who missed it. These deal with eyewitnesses to AA's inability to speak or understand English or Russian, and her preference for German throughout her life:

Sophie Bux:

I tried to attract the young woman's attention as I caressed her hair and speaking to her in English while using the types of phrases I would have used while speaking with the Grand Duchesses, but I did not refer to her by any name other than 'Darling'. She did not reply and I saw that she did not understand a word of what I had said, ....

When Ms. Peuthert saw that the unknown one remained completely mute and did not show that she recognized me, she tried to attract her attention by whispering some words into her ear in German and showing photographs of the Imperial family to her. She pointed to the Empress, while saying: 'Tell me, isn't that mamma?' (Or similar words). In the end she put into her hands a copy of a Russian New Testament with ribbons of the Russian national colors. All these attempts failed, the patient remained mute and strove to hide her face with her cover or her hands. I must point out that the Grand Duchess Anastasia hardly knew any German words and that she pronounced them with a strong Russian accent.

Felix Y.

I claim categorically that she is not Anastasia Nicolaievna, but just an adventuress, a hysteric and a frightful playactress. I simply cannot understand how anyone can be in doubt of this. These pretenders ought to be gathered up and sent to live in a house somewhere." He had spoken to her in all four languages, Russian, English, French and German, and he reported she only answered him in German.

Dmitri Leuchtenberg, the Duke's son

. When Mrs. Tschiakovsky arrived in Seeon she did not speak or understand Russian; she did not speak or understand English, except for what she learned from lessons taken in Lugano and in Obersdorf before coming to Seeon; she did not speak or understand French. She spoke only German with a north German accent. Grand Duchess Anastasia, on the contrary, spoke always Russian to her father, English to her mother, understood and spoke French and did not speak any German.

Olga A.

When Olga entered the room, the woman lying on a bed asked a nurse: “Ist das die Tante?”[Is this the Aunt?] “That”, confessed Olga, “at once took me aback. A moment later I remembered that the young woman having spent five years in Germany, would naturally have learnt the language, but then I heard that when she was rescued from that canal in 1920, she spoke nothing but German – when she spoke at all- which was not often. I readily admit that a ghastly horror experienced in one’s youth can work havoc with one’s memory but I have never heard of any ghastly experience endowing anyone with a knowledge they had not had before it happened. My nieces knew no German at all. Mrs Anderson did not seem to understand a word of Russian or English, the two languages all the four sisters had spoken since babyhood. French came a little later, but German was never spoken in the family."


From Dr. Melton, who is from Charlottesville and was involved in the AA DNA testing:

I "met" Anderson once, her habit was to eat dinner at a local cafeteria with her husband frequently, and they left their old station wagon outside usually full of dogs, always black labrador retrievers. On the occasion that I met her, one of the dogs had escaped through a partially open window while the Manahans were inside the restaurant. My husband and I grabbed the dog, and he went in to tell them about what had happened. She came out of the restaurant, put the dog back in the car, scolding it loudly in a language I was not familiar with.

Kashoub Polish perhaps? Don't forget too that she was heard to yell out in Polish in church in her old age.

other witnesses:

"It was not the English of someone who had spoken English since childhood as Anastasia did." said the English writer, Michael Thornton, when he met her in 1960. "The accent was Germanic, the sentence structure German, the grammar hopeless."

Dave Howey, who met Anderson, by then Mrs. Manahan, when he was a cadet at a Virginia military academy in 1977, wrote of their meeting that "Her husband talked for her since she spoke very little English. Her only functional language was German, her Russian having been wiped out, we were told, as a result of the trauma from seeing her family gunned down in the cellar of a house in Ekaterinburg, Russia."

 

[AGRBear]

AWF last post jumps all around the timeline and she does not give us one single source. And, all of her examples, accept one, Buxhoveden's testimony, has anything to do with AA in Dalldorf, which is toward the end of AA stay at the asylum.

So, for me at least, it's back to step #1 the testimonies of the doctors and the nurses at Dalldorf.

By the wayAWF, you still haven't given me one shred of evidence that any of the nurses or doctors did not tell the truth about what they knew about AA while she was at Dalldorf?

Timelines are important. Here is a quote from my forum:

>>17 Feb 1920. 9:00 PM ...

The person who is to be known as Anna Anderson jumped off the Bendler Bridge into the Landwehr Canal, in Berlin. She was pulled out of the water by Police Serg. Hallman and taken to Elizabeth Hospial in Lutzowstrasse

>>End of March 1920 AA was sent to Dalldorf Asylum

>>Doctors exaimination on 30 March 1920 recorded her weight at 110 pounds and her height at just under five feet two...

>>17 June 1920 AA was fingerprinted and photographed. These photographs were sent from Berlin out to Stuttgart, Brunswick, Hamurg, Munich, Dresden... (Weimar Republic). Places in Berlin, which probably included FS asylum where she spent some time more than once, were checked throughly.... Family members of those who had lost a dau., wife... were brought to see AA... This included the family of a Maria Wacowiak in Posen....

>>autumn of 1921 AA announced she as the GD Anastasia and talked about the jewels sewn in her clothes

>>Claire Peuthert was committed to Dalldorf at the end of 1921

AGRBear

 

[Menarue]

Princess Xenia Georgievna, who had played with Anastasia when they were children, was of the opinion that Anna Anderson was Anastasia and didn't change her mind even when she asked Anderson to leave her home.

What? Xenia said, you are really my friend but get out?
Unfortunately GD Anastasia didn´t have an easy death. The jewels that were so prudently sewn in her bodice for their survival after they managed to get out of Russia caused her to be finished off with bayonets......
No fairy tale there.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Bear I honestly thought my quotes had been posted so many times their 'source' was as obvious too. The Bux quote was her official statement of her meeting, a translation of "La Fausse Anastasie" by our own Tsarskoe.

The Felix Y. story is widely published in several books, I can say with certainty it is in "Man Who Killed Rasputin". The original source was a letter Felix wrote to Andre denouncing AA as an imposter. He also wrote a letter to Victoria Milford-Haven (Alexandra's oldest sister) telling her not to believe Gleb, who was trying to convince her AA was AN. Felix stated that this was 'untrue' and that AA was a fake.

The Olga quotes were MUCH posted and publicized, from the Vorres book, as was the Dmitri Leuchtenberg quote. Besides the numerous times I've quoted all the Vorres quotes in this thread (you have no trouble digging up other stuff, search them!) this info is on my site.

Dr. Melton's comments are from Father Serfes site, Thornton's comment was from Klier and Mingay, and the Dave Howey quote was from his own personal memoir website (of which AA was a very small part)

Thornton's and Howey's meetings are dated, Melton's is clearly once she was in VA, the others are obvious to all who know the story (20's)

As for the rest of your post, it's a fact that the book "Last Days of the Romanovs" detailing the sewing of jewels in clothes was out in 1920. There is absolutely no proof AA ever mentioned being any Grand Duchess before 1922 other than a few questionable quotes from supporters who may have been lying or may have been mistaken about the dates. It proves nothing. And if you don't believe she was AN, why are you pressing this? Oh, you want the 'truth?' Then accept the truth, that AA was not AN, and that AN died with her family, instead of wild theories.

 

[AGRBear]

....[in part]...

As for the rest of your post, it's a fact that the book "Last Days of the Romanovs" detailing the sewing of jewels in clothes was out in 1920. There is absolutely no proof AA ever mentioned being any Grand Duchess before 1922 other than a few questionable quotes from supporters who may have been lying or may have been mistaken about the dates. It proves nothing. And if you don't believe she was AN, why are you pressing this? Oh, you want the 'truth?' Then accept the truth, that AA was not AN, and that AN died with her family, instead of wild theories.

I assume you are talking about THE LAST DAYS OF THE ROMANOVS by Robert Wilton and Telberg. I have a copy. The first edition was published in 1920 in London and New York. French edition was published in Paris in 1921 and later in Russian in 1923.

Since I can't seem to find the part about the jewels being sewed in the clothes which cause bullets to bounce off the bodies, could AWF or someone provide the page or pages. I'll be happy to give the quote/quotes.

Thanks.



AGRBear

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Since I can't seem to find the part about the jewels being sewed in the clothes which cause bullets to bounce off the bodies, could AWF or someone provide the page or pages. I'll be happy to give the quote/quotes.

I thought this seemed like more Deja Vu! From page 87 of this thread:

The jewels sewn into the clothes story was also mentioned in "Last Days of the Romanovs" (1920)

pages 288-289

The Last Days of the Romanovs - Google Book Search

It had been mentioned by Gilliard and also possibly Gibbes in their depositions.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

As Kurt Cobain said: "it is better to burn out then to fade away", well this certainly applies for she will never be forgotten.

He put it in his suicide note, but he didn't coin the phrase. Let's get the sources straight and give credit where it's due. He was only copying originator Neil Young, who sang it in 1979 in the song "My My Hey Hey"

My my, hey hey
Rock and roll is here to stay
It's better to burn out
Than to fade away
My my, hey hey.

and Def Leppard, who added the famous Young quote to the lyrics of their 1983 hit "Rock of Ages"

All right
I got something to say
Yeah, it's better to burn out
Yeah, than fade away
All right

 

[AGRBear]

I thought this seemed like more Deja Vu! From page 87 of this thread:

The jewels sewn into the clothes story was also mentioned in "Last Days of the Romanovs" (1920)

pages 288-289

The Last Days of the Romanovs - Google Book Search

It had been mentioned by Gilliard and also possibly Gibbes in their depositions.

Since the the one book I'm looking at which is English only and has 194 pages, which is just Wilton's part and this includes the index, I'll have to go to google to find the quote. I have the other book around here somewhere....

>>... For some days the grand duchesses and their trusty servants worked at the task sewing up the valuables in their bodices in their hats and even inside their buttons The Empress had few if any valuables with her possibly because there had been no time to secrete them but thanks to the precautions now taken the grand duchesses managed to smuggle all that was of greatest value into their last prison house.<<The Last Days of the Romanovs By George Gustav Telberg [the first half] Robert Wilton [second half], Nikolaĭ Sokolov [?]

When did AA say anything about the jewels? In other words was it before or after Wilton's book was published?

AGRBear

PS
Found my original 1920 edition. The quote above is on p. 289.

 

[AnastasiaEvidence]

I still say that AA was an alien. And we all know that aliens aren't Grand Duchesses or Polish factory workers!

AA had to be FS, they had too many similarities. FS, was declared mentally insane just like AA was. FS disapeared right before AA was a Berlin. AA defiantly had the same sign of mental illness as FS did. This woman walked on the roof necked, and attacking people with sticks.

But seriously, I don't think she was either Grand Duchess Anastasia or Franziska Schanzkowska. Maybe one day we'll find out who she really was.

We already found out who AA was. I don't understand why people continue on making this into a mystery. It's NOT a mystery. DNA proved it successfully.AA is FS, and has been proven so many times for over many decades.

 

[AGRBear]

Here is what Gibbes said p. 53 The Last Days of the Romanovs book:

>>In regard to the rubies you have shown me, I can state that the imperial family had quite a number of them in their various articles of jewelry...<<

>>the sapphires looked very much like grafments of the stone that the emperor had in his ring.<<

There are photographs of
1. "Relics found near the pyres" [this is the area where the clothing was burned] which was the Empress' pectoral cross set with emeralds and a great diamond pendant
2. Pearl earring of the Empress'

Wilton doesn't tell us from who told him about the information about the jewels being sewn into the grand duchesses clothes when they were at Tobolsk. For example Wilton wrote:

>>Before separating, it had been understood between mother and daughters that they would take measures for safeguarding the jewels....<<

 

[Anna was Franziska]

When did AA say anything about the jewels? In other words was it before or after Wilton's book was published?

Don't you know? The AA supporters always use it to try to say she had 'inside info' 'only AN would know.' I thought for sure you'd have a Kurth page quote ready. But of course, she said it after the book came out 1920, since she wasn't pretending to be AN in that year.

PS
Found my original 1920 edition. The quote above is on p. 289.

Which is what I said in my post. Also there is mention on page 306, 344, and the hidden jewels being called 'medicines' is referred to by Gilliard on page 30. You know you can use that link I posted to search for any word or phrase, and it usually gives you the page numbers they're on.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en...UE9U&sig=3KGBlrxbGlfIR01Q5lWMBIPIJIE#PPA39,M1

 

[Anna was Franziska]

AA had to be FS, they had too many similarities. FS, was declared mentally insane just like AA was. FS disapeared right before AA was a Berlin. AA defiantly had the same sign of mental illness as FS did. This woman walked on the roof necked, and attacking people with sticks.


We already found out who AA was. I don't understand why people continue on making this into a mystery. It's NOT a mystery. DNA proved it successfully.AA is FS, and has been proven so many times for over many decades.

True, and anyone who doesn't believe AA was FS should take a look at the pictures too. AA was a dead ringer for FS (because she was FS)

http://www.freewebs.com/anastasiafranziska/anisfran2.jpg

Anna Anderson: Exposed! | The Fact, Fiction and Fantasy surrounding the myth of "Anastasia"

 

[AnastasiaEvidence]

True, and anyone who doesn't believe AA was FS should take a look at the pictures too. AA was a dead ringer for FS (because she was FS)

People just don't have evidence to prove that 'AA couldn't be FS'. AA and FS have so many similarities they are the same person!

 

[Anna was Franziska]

st

People just don't have evidence to prove that 'AA couldn't be FS'. AA and FS have so many similarities they are the same person!

It's very obvious AA was FS, all the evidence points to it, the DNA backed it up, and it's been known since 1927. Some people just do not want to believe she was FS so much that they deny it, because it must not be exciting enough for them. Some would rather believe she was AN, others who don't believe she was AN would still rather believe she was something more mysterious and interesting than a Polish factory worker. I don't understand either, because to me the story of her being FS is interesting, too. That's who she was, all along.

 

[AnastasiaEvidence]

It's very obvious AA was FS, all the evidence points to it, the DNA backed it up, and it's been known since 1927. Some people just do not want to believe she was FS so much that they deny it, because it must not be exciting enough for them. Some would rather believe she was AN, others who don't believe she was AN would still rather believe she was something more mysterious and interesting than a Polish factory worker. I don't understand either, because to me the story of her being FS is interesting, too. That's who she was, all along.

I'm quite sure these people understand the truth and major evidence. But, they just choose to not believe it. They rather believe in something else that doesn't have concreate evidence to prove. They just want to make this into a mystery, I don't think they are actually interested in the Imperial family . All they care for is the mystery to be kept alive, so it can be some reason to be interested in the imperial family. Over sixty years ago, Ernest also pointed out the fact that AA was FS, the missing Polish factory worker because she was in the same area as the missing FS was, and AA's photo looked so much like FS.The photos you posted AWF, show the major similarities between AA and FS.

 

[AGRBear]

...You know you can use that link I posted to search for any word or phrase, and it usually gives you the page numbers they're on.

The Last Days of the Romanovs - Google Book Search

I wasn't aware that I could search the book with a key word. Thank you for informing of this.

 

[AGRBear]

Yes, I can prove it. You still do not seem to comprehend that Malinovsky could not have heard any story from AA in the fall of 1922 since they parted ways in May when AA went to Baron von Kleist to live. So it had to happen in fall of 1921, the only fall they spent together. And I did not accuse the newspaper, I said "willfully or not". ... [ in part]....

p. 12 Kurth's ANASTASIA, THE RIDDLE OF ANNA ANDERSON:

>>It was then in the autumn of 1921, that Fraeulin Unbekannt declared outright that she was Her Imperial Highness the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nicolaievna. In the conversation that followed, as Nurse Malinovsky remembered it...She spoke of her sisters and the jewels they had sewn into their clothes in Siberia, of the last night in Ekaterinburg, when "a lady-in-waiting ran about with a cushion in her hands, hiding her face it and screaming", and of "the leader of the murderers of the tsar, (who) who went straight up to her father and his pistole....mocking him and with it and shooting at him."

Approximate date given was "autumn of 1921", so this is after the publication of Telberg/Wilton's book in London and USA.

So we know the part about the jewels sewn into "their clothes" was in Telberg/Wilton's book.

Was the part about Demidovna running around with her "cushion"/ "little pillow" in Telberg/Wilton's book?

And was the information about Yurovsky executing and mocking the Tsar in there too?

AGRBear

 

[AGRBear]

p. 187 THE LAST DAYS OF THE ROMANOVS:

>>...Demidova was tossing herself about, but was dispatched by by bayonets.<<

There was only one bayonet, which was detached from the rifle because there were no rifles used and then it was just the butts, until later, which was used by Ermakov.

This is found in "examination of a. Iakimoff [I was mistaken, this was not Ermakov as my post said earlier; this is a corrrection] who tells us what happen as he heard it did from others.
p. 190

>>I remember that Deriabin said that Demidova had about thirty bayonet wounds. I told that to my sister.<<

Still looking for the "cushion"/ little pillows.

p. 201
>>...the maid had a pillow. The czar's daughters also brought small pillows with them. One pillow was put on the empress's chair; another on the heir's chair. ...<<

I have to go make breakfast. I'll be back and finish my thoughts on this later today, I hope.

AGRBear

 

[Anna was Franziska]

p. 12 Kurth's ANASTASIA, THE RIDDLE OF ANNA ANDERSON:

>>It was then in the autumn of 1921, that Fraeulin Unbekannt declared outright that she was Her Imperial Highness the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nicolaievna. In the conversation that followed, as Nurse Malinovsky remembered it...She spoke of her sisters and the jewels they had sewn into their clothes in Siberia, of the last night in Ekaterinburg, when "a lady-in-waiting ran about with a cushion in her hands, hiding her face it and screaming", and of "the leader of the murderers of the tsar, (who) who went straight up to her father and his pistole....mocking him and with it and shooting at him."

Approximate date given was "autumn of 1921", so this is after the publication of Telberg/Wilton's book in London and USA.

So we know the part about the jewels sewn into "their clothes" was in Telberg/Wilton's book.

Was the part about Demidovna running around with her "cushion"/ "little pillow" in Telberg/Wilton's book?

And was the information about Yurovsky executing and mocking the Tsar in there too?

AGRBear

Do a search to find out if it's in there. Put the word in the box at the top right corner marked 'search book' and click the button. The story of the maid running around is well known, and it's actually silly to pretend to have been a victim and to have observed such a thing, being shot and bayonetted yourself! Wonder if she ever thought of that! The 'mocking' story may have come from a book or never even happened. But even if it wasn't in there, she got it from someone who knew, and much later than 1921. As I have said many times before, I give no value at all to the alleged 'nurse' story. That entire episode is completely unbelievable and makes no sense with later events. AA showed no signs of any interest in being a Grand Duchess until Clara said she looked like Tatiana in1922, and she did nothing to deny it or say she was Anastasia instead until she was declared 'too short' by Bux. If Bux had bought her as "Tatiana" she'd had stayed "Tatiana." Any GD is better than being FS/Miss Unknown.

There are only two possibilities on this 'nurse' story: One, that it never happened, and that the nurse was only helping her claim (possibly in hopes of a payoff?) or, two, she got her dates wrong and it happened much later. Remember she told the newspaper 1922, then changed it to 21 and said it was a 'mistake.' Likely, someone told her the story needed to predate the "Clara" coming-out. I know you say the nurse was not working there in the fall of '22 but it could have happened in the spring, and she got the dates wrong. Obviously, she didn't know the date, and gave the wrong one to the newspaper. So, either she lied or got the date wrong, but the story as AA supporters tell it could not/DID NOT happen in 1921.

Now for something completely different!

RT - 24/7 English-language news channel : Features : Royal family to strike jackpot?

It doesn't mention AA, but since it was a part of her story, here's an interesting article about what money the Tsar had left and what happened to it.

 

[Russophile]

Bear, wasn't Ermakov the one who went around stabbing everybody after they executed them by gunfire? I seem to remember King and Wilson writing that.

 

[AGRBear]

Correction. It was Medvedev, who claimed he wasn't part of the execution. Iakimoff and Ermakov were not the same person. [This occured due to being rushed this morning and I didn't check my facts first. SORRY! But if you were here you'd see how it happened.... "I just love contruction", Bear voiced with tongue in cheek)

When Medvedev was captured by the Whites soon after the execution, he claimed he had not taken part in the execution. His sister testified that Medvedev had told her that he had taken part in the execution.

p. 201 tells us the "Medvedeff" / Medvedev did testify and it was in THE LAST DAYS OF THE TSAR:

>>The maid had a pillow. The czar's daughters also brought small pillows with them. One pillow was put on the empress's chair; another on the heir's chair.<<

Bear, wasn't Ermakov the one who went around stabbing everybody after they executed them by gunfire? I seem to remember King and Wilson writing that.

According to certain testimony, Ermakov was drunk and laden down with all kinds of things including a bayonet. Some claim he had gone beserk for a short time during the killings.

Ermakov was the one who claimed he executed Nicholas II and when he was asked to speak in front of the incoming communist cadets after the revolution, he continued to claim he had executed Nicholas II. In Radzinsky's book THE LAST TSAR, Radzinsky had an interview with Ermakov's son who continued to claim his father was the one who had executed Nicholas II.

According to Russian historians, they give the credit to Yurovsky as the one who executed Nicholas II.

 

[tsarskoe]

With regards to the statements AA made about the Romanovs in the early 1920's. AA read alot during her time in Dalldorf. Therefore she was able to read German very well and thus she could read any of the many newspaper/magazine accounts of the Romanovs. The nurse Chemnitz ne Malinovski even brought her books from outside the Dalldorf library to read. AA did admit to one of her Doctors in the mid/late 1920's that while at Dalldorf she had a newspaper/magazine which detailed the murder of the Imperial family. Gilliard insisted this was the Illustrated Newspaper having three of the Duchesses on the front with the tag line (to the effect) "Did one of these Survive?" Within it it detailed the murder, including photographs of the murder room (Enlarged to show the wallpaper of the room. AA would impress some later by recounting the wallpaper of the room). I have not heard a single quote from AA during her Dalldorf internment that was not readily accessible to the general public. Only later did AA make statements which couldn't be found in books, but not during these initial years. Yet, in later years while with the Kleists and the Schwabes she had access to many more items books and especially photographs and Russian emigres.

 

[AGRBear]

I have lost my train of thought due to all the interruptions around me.

Let me see if I can pull some of those thoughts back. Forgive me but I'll need to repeat what nurse Malinovsky told us:

p. 12 Kurth's ANASTASIA, THE RIDDLE OF ANNA ANDERSON:

>>It was then in the autumn of 1921 (1), that Fraeulin Unbekannt declared outright that she was Her Imperial Highness the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nicolaievna. In the conversation that followed, as Nurse Malinovsky remembered it...(2) She spoke of her sisters and the jewels they had sewn into their clothes in Siberia, of the last night in Ekaterinburg, (3) when "a lady-in-waiting ran about with a cushion in her hands, hiding her face it and screaming", and (4) of "the leader of the murderers of the tsar, (who) who went straight up to her father and his pistole....mocking him and with it and shooting at him."

(1) Approximate date given was "autumn of 1921", so this is after the publication of Telberg/Wilton's book in London and USA.

(2) So we know the part about the jewels sewn into "their clothes" was in Telberg/Wilton's book. Another place is p. 335:
>>They also spoke of the "valuables sown in their clothes.<<

(3) Was the part about Demidovna running around with her "cushion"/ "little pillow" in Telberg/Wilton's book? Telberg/Wilton's book tells us, she did have a "pillow", and >>p. 187 THE LAST DAYS OF THE ROMANOVS:
"...Demidova was tossing herself about, but was dispatched by by bayonets."<< p. 310 in section written by Wilton:
>> <<the maid-servant lived the longest. Perhaps the pillows were in the way. She was not touched by the first volley, and ran about screaming till some of the "Letts," seizing their rifles, bayoneted her to death.<<

(4) And was the information about Yurovsky executing and mocking the Tsar in their book? Didn't find this in Medvedeff's testimony since he was claiming he didn't see the actual shooting. The others weren't there. I'll have to go and search Wilton's section.

Unless there is another interuption, I'll be right back.

Didn't find anything about Yurovsky mocking the tsar on p. 308 or anyt other page. Did I miss it?

So, the question is: Did someone introduce AA to Telberg and Wilton's book? We don't know.



AGRBear

 

[AGRBear]

With regards to the statements AA made about the Romanovs in the early 1920's. AA read alot during her time in Dalldorf. Therefore she was able to read German very well and thus she could read any of the many newspaper/magazine accounts of the Romanovs. The nurse Chemnitz ne Malinovski even brought her books from outside the Dalldorf library to read. AA did admit to one of her Doctors in the mid/late 1920's that while at Dalldorf she had a newspaper/magazine which detailed the murder of the Imperial family. Gilliard insisted this was the Illustrated Newspaper having three of the Duchesses on the front with the tag line (to the effect) "Did one of these Survive?" Within it it detailed the murder, including photographs of the murder room (Enlarged to show the wallpaper of the room. AA would impress some later by recounting the wallpaper of the room). I have not heard a single quote from AA during her Dalldorf internment that was not readily accessible to the general public. Only later did AA make statements which couldn't be found in books, but not during these initial years. Yet, in later years while with the Kleists and the Schwabes she had access to many more items books and especially photographs and Russian emigres.

If AA read the book, then she was able to read either English or French.

>>... THE LAST DAYS OF THE ROMANOVS by Robert Wilton and Telberg. I have a copy. The first edition was published in 1920 in London and New York. French edition was published in Paris in 1921 and later in Russian in 1923.<<

 

[tsarskoe]

Many of the details of the Romanov murders were reproduced in newspapers such as the Berlin Illustrated and other tabloids in the early 1920's. We know details about the murder and photographs of the semi basement room were published in the October 23rd 1921 edition of the Berlin Illustrated (The cover has the now famous photograph of the ailing Marie, Anastasia and Tatiana taken during their measles outbreak. This was a family photograph and not a postcard or formal portrait. Personal photographs were already starting to show up in publications). According to the nurse Chemitz's testimony from the German trials she stated that she and the other nurses knew about the Romanov murders since the all newspapers were "full" of stories regarding the murder. So again it can be of no surprise that AA knew basic information about the Romanovs at this time.

[Interestingly Chemnitz also said that she and another nurse who testified at the trials were not native German speakers and did not speak German "perfectly" at the time they worked on the floor with AA. In fact she believed that AA spoke better German than herself.]

 

[AGRBear]

Many of the details of the Romanov murders were reproduced in newspapers such as the Berlin Illustrated and other tabloids in the early 1920's. We know details about the murder and photographs of the semi basement room were published in the October 23rd 1921 edition of the Berlin Illustrated (The cover has the now famous photograph of the ailing Marie, Anastasia and Tatiana taken during their measles outbreak. This was a family photograph and not a postcard or formal portrait. Personal photographs were already starting to show up in publications). According to the nurse Chemitz's testimony from the German trials she stated that she and the other nurses knew about the Romanov murders since the all newspapers were "full" of stories regarding the murder. So again it can be of no surprise that AA knew basic information about the Romanovs at this time.

[Interestingly Chemnitz also said that she and another nurse who testified at the trials were not native German speakers and did not speak German "perfectly" at the time they worked on the floor with AA. In fact she believed that AA spoke better German than herself.]

I have not seen a copy of the Berlin Illustrated published 23 Oct 1921. Anyone have a copy?

Yes, we know the execution of Nicholas II and the family were reported in the news and newspapers. But what were the details? Did they talk about "little pillows" or the jewels sewn in the under garments of the grand duchesses....?

I am not exactly sure what it means that a nurse said AA spoke "better German" than her. This could mean that the nurse was just learning proper German or she spoke Low or Middle German which the German scholars were trying to stamp out in favor of a national language which was High German.... So, this really doesn't tell me very much. To this we need to add this to the investigation: According to some, AA had an accent added to her German, which means it wasn't her first language p. 10 Kurth's ANASTASIA, THE RIDDLE OF ANNA ANDERSON:

>>The nurses at Dalldorf never doubted that Fraeulein Unbekannt was Russian. It wasn't just her "Eastern" accent or the fact that she spoke foreign languages in her sleep. "She spoke Russian like a native," said Erna Bucholz.<<

I think there is a different sound to a Polish accent when compared to a Russian accent. Surly Bucholz, who lived in Russia, knew the difference.

AGRBear

 

[COUNTESS]

She could have spoken Chinese, but her DNA still didn't match. We can argue he said, she said, until the cows come home, it is science that takes away the doubt. Who knows, she might have really believed herself to be whom she portrayed. Lots of unstable people think strange things. In the end result, DNA, is the ultimate judge.

 

[AGRBear]

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/topics/romanov.pdf

Example of what was being reported in July of 1918 in the New York Times.


AGRBear