When did your opinion of Diana change and why?

[olebabs]

Compared to some mother-in-laws I know, the Queen was an ideal mother-in-law because she didn't get involved in their marriage. I can't count how many women I have heard say that they wish their mother-in-law would stay out of their marriage.

Honestly, if Diana was looking for that kind of support from the Queen, I think she was being unrealistic. Charles is who he is but he was still the Queen's first child that the Queen gave birth to when she was very young and at a stage in her life where she had the most normal, family-friendly atmosphere for being a mother. The Queen was barely older than Diana when she gave birth to her first child and from Diana's relationship with William, you can see how durable that bond can be. I seriously doubt that Diana would support Kate over her firstborn son William.

I may not have expressed myself correctly. But if what you discribe is true in regards to the queen, then she certainly should have been able to relate to Dianas situation a bit more than it seemed and perhaps given her a few tips on how to be a young mother in a demanding job.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The "Panorama" interview was probably the worst mistake she ever made...worse by far than the Morton book.

I believe it was that one, awful interview, more than anything else,that put her on the irrevocable road to divorce and ultimately to the fatal events of the summer of 1997.


But I began first to really understand how deeply troubled she was after the Oliver Hoare debacle. To have had proof of her complicity presented to her, then continue to lie and blame it on some schoolboy prank, had to require dishonesty and denial on a grand scale.

I was also appalled by the fact that she had no apparent concern for the wife and children of her(alleged) lover...how could someone so radiant and generous also be so selfish and cruel?

In the end, am still of the opinion that she was a remarkable human being with a beautiful spirit. The fact that she was deeply flawed doesn't change that I think her family, the BRF and the world are diminished by her loss.

 

[sirhon11234]

I was also appalled by the fact that she had no apparent concern for the wife and children of her(alleged) lover...how could someone so radiant and generous also be so selfish and cruel?

She did behave selfishly with Hoare. I don't think it was her intent to hurt his wife and child, I feel the same with Camilla. They fell in love or in Diana's case became infatuated with men who were married. Love or infatuation could cause some people to do things they probably swore they would never do. From 94-95 she seemed to be so desperate.

 

[ysbel]

I may not have expressed myself correctly. But if what you discribe is true in regards to the queen, then she certainly should have been able to relate to Dianas situation a bit more than it seemed and perhaps given her a few tips on how to be a young mother in a demanding job.

As far as I can tell, we don't know what advice the Queen gave Diana. I do know that Diana was the only in-law that the Queen was willing to see without an appointment and she wasn't willing to do that even for her children. They did have quite a few private conversations but the Queen is not going to divulge what was said (quite rightly) and Diana gave few hints. The Queen may have given her advice on being a young mother with public responsibilities or she may not have; its impossible to know. The only thing I'm sure of is Diana did say she asked the Queen to force Charles to give up Camilla and the Queen was unwilling to do that. Knowing the Queen's reputation for not getting involved in family matters, I thought Diana was unrealistic to expect that.

I don't necessarily agree with the Queen's unwillingness to make her family toe the line but in this case I think the Queen made the right decision. Nothing good was going to come from the Queen pulling rank on Charles and forcing him to give up Camilla. It was just going to cause a huge amount of resentment between Charles and the Queen and cause Charles to resent Diana even more than he already did. Regardless of what Charles thought about Camilla, he made it abundantly clear that he wanted nothing to do with Diana. Losing Camilla wouldn't have changed that. I do think that its deplorable that Charles gave up on her so early but realistically there was nothing the Queen could do for the marriage except influence both Charles and Diana to keep their public sniping to a minimum (and enable them to get a divorce).

Diana's request was totally out-of-line given the fallout between the Queen and Charles which would have ensued if the Queen had done as she had wanted and especially given the fact that it wouldn't have changed the nature of Charles' and Diana's relationship. Realistically, given Charles' attitude, the Queen's interference would have only made the situation between them worse and damaged the Queen's own relationship with her eldest son and heir. That was too much for Diana to ask.

 

[georgiea]

Can someone give me reference to Diana, Princess of Wales asking the Queen to tell Prince Charles to give up the Duchess of Cornwall?

Again to stay on topic: Diana, Princess of Wales was a person with mental problems brought on by not truly being loved from her parents, spouse, and boyfriends.

I really think the after the Morton book Diana spiraled out of control with her mental health. I don't condone that she broke up marriages, but I think she was a very broken vessel by then. Just like the Duchess of York, but without money problems.

One thing that I read about Diana, Princess of Wales was that she could compartmentalize her life. She could do a public outings and be all smiles, but inside be very unhappy. Yes, the public Diana I admire a lot. The private I feel very protective and sorry for.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I remember this story. The host asked Diana what her interests were for the trip. Diana brightened up and started to talk, and Charles said, "Shopping, darling?" Do you remember the source for this? I think that it was a story that came out fairly recently, like within the last 10 years.

2) On a trip to an Arab country he told the princess to go shop because that is what a woman does and not listen to the men talk. I might not be writing it correctly by Diana was embarrassed by the comment.

 

[sirhon11234]

I remember this story. The host asked Diana what her interests were for the trip. Diana brightened up and started to talk, and Charles said, "Shopping, darling?" Do you remember the source for this? I think that it was a story that came out fairly recently, like within the last 10 years.

I listed a source in post 1020.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Oh thanks, sirhon11234. That was on the previous page, and I missed it.

I listed a source in post 1020.

 

[Mermaid1962]

And that's one reason why I can't condone adultery. So many people get hurt, including children. I hate to see children hurt.

When my parents carried out their affairs with their lovers it hurt me.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Can someone give me reference to Diana, Princess of Wales asking the Queen to tell Prince Charles to give up the Duchess of Cornwall?

Again to stay on topic: Diana, Princess of Wales was a person with mental problems brought on by not truly being loved from her parents, spouse, and boyfriends.

I really think the after the Morton book Diana spiraled out of control with her mental health. I don't condone that she broke up marriages, but I think she was a very broken vessel by then. Just like the Duchess of York, but without money problems.

One thing that I read about Diana, Princess of Wales was that she could compartmentalize her life. She could do a public outings and be all smiles, but inside be very unhappy. Yes, the public Diana I admire a lot. The private I feel very protective and sorry for.

Both of Diana's parents seemed to adore her, particularly her father.
I think it is very much incorrect to say that they did not love her.

But once the Spencer marriage turned sour, the children became the battleground on which the parents chose to wage war. This happens in many broken families...and it is always the children who will suffer.

Diana was extremely sensitive, and like her siblings missed out on important emotional sustenance that is absolutely crucial from parents during their formative years.

IMO the four Spencer children(maybe not Jane) have all exhibited behavior in adulthood that showed they were damaged as a result of a turbulent childhood.

But I do not think any of them were unloved.

 

[georgiea]

Both of Diana's parents seemed to adore her, particularly her father.
I think it is very much incorrect to say that they did not love her.

But once the Spencer marriage turned sour, the children became the battleground on which the parents chose to wage war. This happens in many broken families...and it is always the children who will suffer.

Diana was extremely sensitive, and like her siblings missed out on important emotional sustenance that is absolutely crucial from parents during their formative years.

IMO the four Spencer children(maybe not Jane) have all exhibited behavior in adulthood that showed they were damaged as a result of a turbulent childhood.

But I do not think any of them were unloved.

They were loved materialistically. When the parents got married a second time they were involved with their spouses. Francis even moved far away from Diana. The Princess saw her on vacations. Raine ruled the Spencer household and all the children hated her. When Diana's father was in the hospital Raine kept the Spencer children away from him. How can you think Diana was loved without quality time and attention from her parents? I guess we have to disagree to agree. But Diana, Princess of Wales from all that I have read stated she had everything materialistic but distant parents. That is why she craved so much love from husbands and lovers. I think that is why her brother goes through women.

Again to stay on topic. I admire Diana, Princess of Wales public live.

 

[scooter]

That is exactly the case - duty called and his son was out of danger - of course Diana milked it for all she was worth to paint Charles as an uncaring father - but that was her way of course - to hurt Charles at every opportunity in the press and in the home - and too bad about the impact on their sons.

Sorry Bertie, but I must disagree. My child is just the age William was when his skull was fractured with a golf club and underwent brain surgery. There is no duty higher than that of a parent to their child when that child has suffered an injury as serious as that. How about when the child woke up he would be afraid and want his parents? Opera?! The press jumped all over Charles for that terrible decision, as they should have quite frankly. This is my point that he was often his own worst enemy.

 

[Lady Felicity M]

I never really like diana, she became almost bitter and cold to people. At the beginning she had the look of I'm little miss nice girl but then as the years progressed she started to look like look at me I'm a princess, I have a great bod, great load of clothes, money and 2 sons, I'm better then you all. She really started to look and act like a snob

 

[MARG]

She did behave selfishly with Hoare. I don't think it was her intent to hurt his wife and child . . . . . . . . . . . became infatuated with men who were married. Love or infatuation could cause some people to do things they probably swore they would never do. From 94-95 she seemed to be so desperate.

I would suggest that lying in the face of proof of 300 + calls to him goes way past "infatuated", she was stalking him and his family was irrelevant, just as irrelevant as Will Carling's wife was when she was "infatuated" with him. Being in love does not give anyone license to invade someone Else's life and marriage, and the extremes to which she went in the case of Oliver Hoare were criminal.

I loathed that Diana was a total hypocrite. She vilified Charles and took every opportunity to bring him down in public, all the while portraying herself as an innocent, hurt and abandoned wife. Yet her own behaviour was truly appalling. What Diana wanted Diana got, and to hell with the consequences. Wife? Children? Irrelevant!

One thing I did grudgingly admire was her ability to "play" the paparazzi. Her lonely, isolated poor me in sitting in front of the Taj Mahal was a mirror to her lonely, isolated poor me sitting on the end of the diving board in a swimsuit on Dodi's boat, were both master plays.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Sorry Bertie, but I must disagree. My child is just the age William was when his skull was fractured with a golf club and underwent brain surgery. There is no duty higher than that of a parent to their child when that child has suffered an injury as serious as that. How about when the child woke up he would be afraid and want his parents? Opera?! The press jumped all over Charles for that terrible decision, as they should have quite frankly. This is my point that he was often his own worst enemy.

In your opinion there is no duty higher than being a parent but to Charles and the royal family that wasn't the case. They left children for extended periods of time, had them raised by nannies and from Charles onwards sent them away from aged 8 to be raised by others - namely the boarding schools. Even Diana sent her sons away aged 8. Charles himself was left aged just over 5 for over six months while his parents travelled the world - this was what he grew up with and he understood that his position meant sacrifices - and that meant sacrificing family for duty. Andrew said it best as a young boy 'I wish Mummy would say 'no' sometimes' but that was how the Queen raised her children - duty ahead of personal desire.

To the royals the public and their expectations come above their own needs - and that is what Charles did - put the public above his family.

The only time the royals ever put family first they were, and still are, vilified - by many on this board as well - the week after Diana died - the public expected them to leave William and Harry and go amongst the public rather than be with the boys.

You miss the point that the royals have a different idea on what is important - children who only have their parents to raise them need parents but children who have nannies don't need their parents as much - William falls into the later category - had nannies and was sent away from his parents at a very young age - so obviously being a parent wasn't high on the agenda of either of his parents if being with the child is the criteria.

 

[georgiea]

You miss the point that the royals have a different idea on what is important - children who only have their parents to raise them need parents but children who have nannies don't need their parents as much - William falls into the later category - had nannies and was sent away from his parents at a very young age - so obviously being a parent wasn't high on the agenda of either of his parents if being with the child is the criteria.

Diana, Princess of Wales had problems but she was there for her sons. She was in charge of the nursery and education of her sons. I have posted before that she made her schedule around her sons' schooling and events. As a royal she took Prince William with them on their first overseas trip. Yes, Diana can be thought of badly but not for her son's well being when they were small. I think the princes' adore their mother and respect their father.

People on this forum can talk all they want about Diana and her lovers, but one thing that is positive about Diana, Princess of Wales is her love, devotion and good mothering skills.

I would suggest that lying in the face of proof of 300 + calls to him goes way past "infatuated", she was stalking him and his family was irrelevant, just as irrelevant as Will Carling's wife was when she was "infatuated" with him. Being in love does not give anyone license to invade someone Else's life and marriage, and the extremes to which she went in the case of Oliver Hoare were criminal.

I loathed that Diana was a total hypocrite. She vilified Charles and took every opportunity to bring him down in public, all the while portraying herself as an innocent, hurt and abandoned wife. Yet her own behaviour was truly appalling. What Diana wanted Diana got, and to hell with the consequences. Wife? Children? Irrelevant!

Don't you thing a woman that lied and made so many telephone calls had problems? Yes her behavior was appalling in some areas of her life. I believe she was mentally unstable from her eating disorder, unstable home life and being in the public eye 24/7. I do not loathed the Diana that was a hypocrite but feel very sorry that she was so vindictive that most of her life she lived in a hell of her own making from mental illness.

Again getting on topic the public Diana, Princess of Wales I admirer and the private Diana I feel so sorry for.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Diana, Princess of Wales had problems but she was there for her sons. She was in charge of the nursery and education of her sons. I have posted before that she made her schedule around her sons' schooling and events. As a royal she took Prince William with them on their first overseas trip. Yes, Diana can be thought of badly but not for her son's well being when they were small. I think the princes' adore their mother and respect their father.

People on this forum can talk all they want about Diana and her lovers, but one thing that is positive about Diana, Princess of Wales is her love, devotion and good mothering skills.

Any person who says a mother is there for her sons when they are at boarding school for 9 months of the year has a funny idea of what 'being there' means in my opinion.

Even when they weren't at school she only had them for half the time so about 6 weeks a years she was there as the other half of their holiday time was with Charles from very early on - sorry but it isn't hard to look good as a parent for 6 weeks a year.

The credit for how the boys turned out has to go to the people who raised them - the schools - not their parents but the teachers and school staff who were with them every day for 9 months a year.

Having gone to a boarding school I know who had the greater influence on my growing up and it wasn't my parents but rather my house mistresses and the other girls in my year because they were the ones who were there every day, who were there when I was told my grandmother was dying of cancer, who were there when I was told that my best friend had died, who were there when I heard the news that my cousin was getting engaged etc - they were the ones who picked up the pieces on a day to day basis - my parents were the ones who came and told me things but after they left, a couple of days later, it was the school that actually had to deal with things. The same thing happened with the Diana when she did the washing the dirty linen in public e.g. the Morton book and the Panorama interview - she went to the school to talk to William but who actually dealt with the issue on the day to day basis when the other boys were talking about it (and yes I know that the book and interview weren't supposed to be available in the school but if you believe that I have a Harbour Bridge you can buy - the book would have been in that school by recess and well hidden - like all contraband in schools) - the house master and they other teachers. Even dealing with the situation after Diana died - who would have dealt with the day to day issues that arose after that all happened - the school not Charles - they were the ones who were there first and thus the ones to deal with it.

Diana - like her parents before her - handed the raising of her sons over to other people. That doesn't mean that she didn't love them but more that she was a product of her own class - and that class believed in having boarding schools raising their kids, along with the nannies etc. Diana might have been slightly more hands on then most in her class but she only had to be with them for about 6 weeks a year (and also in the Squidgeygate tape refers to looking after her own sons as 'babysitting').

No one doubts her love for her sons but I do question whether or not she was actually a good mother in many ways. Fortunately for them the decision about which schools would actually raise the boys was right for them.

 

[Mirabel]

Don't you thing a woman that lied and made so many telephone calls had problems? Yes her behavior was appalling in some areas of her life. I believe she was mentally unstable from her eating disorder, unstable home life and being in the public eye 24/7. I do not loathed the Diana that was a hypocrite but feel very sorry that she was so vindictive that most of her life she lived in a hell of her own making from mental illness.

Again getting on topic the public Diana, Princess of Wales I admirer and the private Diana I feel so sorry for.

I agree with this completely; I don't think Diana was a deliberate hypocrite, but she definitely had mental problems that made her and everyone around her miserable.

Nevertheless, in her brief life she also did a great deal of good in her charitable endeavors, and I think it's important she be remembered for that.

 

[sirhon11234]

. Being in love does not give anyone license to invade someone Else's life and marriage

I agree with this.

Diana, Princess of Wales had problems but she was there for her sons. She was in charge of the nursery and education of her sons. I have posted before that she made her schedule around her sons' schooling and events. As a royal she took Prince William with them on their first overseas trip. Yes, Diana can be thought of badly but not for her son's well being when they were small. I think the princes' adore their mother and respect their father.

I agree she was a good mother, William and Harry even said it themselves. Diana and Charles did the best they could, they weren't perfect nor were they bad either.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

They were loved materialistically. When the parents got married they were involved with their spouses. Francis even moved far away from Diana. The Princess saw her on vacations. Raine ruled the Spencer household and all the children hated her. When Diana's father was in the hospital Raine kept the Spencer children away from him. How can you think Diana was loved without quality time and attention from her parents? I guess we have to disagree to agree. But Diana, Princess of Wales from all that I have read stated she had everything materialistic but distant parents. That is why she craved so much love from husbands and lovers. I think that is why her brother goes through women.

Again to stay on topic. I admire Diana, Princess of Wales public live.

Again, before Raine, before Peter Shand-Kydd, the Spencer children lived an almost idyllic childhood at Park House. Certainly it was an aristocratic upbringing that involved nannies...but there was still fun, happiness and love....at least until 1967.

Read the biographies of Sally Bedell-Smith, Anne Edwards, and Sarah Bradford, and Diana's childhood nanny Mary Clarke just for starters.

Diana's unhappiness and emotional turbulence began AFTER her parents acrimonious split.

ETA: I do agree with your assessment of the Princess as a parent...she was an excellent one...but I hated the way she often used and manipulated them to get her way as well.

However, Prince Harry has publically called her the world's best mother, and William despite everything seems to revere her memory. You can't argue with facts.

I think the boys got the best qualities of both Diana and Charles...particularly William.

 

[sirhon11234]

Again, before Raine, before Peter Shand-Kydd, the Spencer children lived an almost idyllic childhood at Park House. Certainly it was an aristocratic upbringing that involved nannies...but there was still fun, happiness and love....at least until 1967.

Read the biographies of Sally Bedell-Smith, Anne Edwards, and Sarah Bradford, and Diana's childhood nanny Mary Clarke just for starters.

Diana's unhappiness and emotional turbulence began AFTER her parents acrimonious split.

ETA: I do agree with your assessment of the Princess as a parent...she was an excellent one...but I hated the way she often used and manipulated them to get her way as well.

However, Prince Harry has publically called her the world's best mother, and William despite everything seems to revere her memory. You can't argue with facts.

I think the boys got the best qualities of both Diana and Charles...particularly William.

The divorce affected the Spencer children differently. Sara and Jane have maintained long relationships with their husbands and seem happy. They have the stable families. Where as Diana and Charles are the opposites, their marriages were unstable and had problems sustaining long term relationships. IMO it probably reflects the ages of the children when their parents got divorced.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

sirhon, that is not surprising since Diana and her little brother Charles were the youngest, the divorce would have hit them hardest.

Sarah and Jane were away at school when their parents split up.

One of the most painful revelations of Diana's story is how she used to lay awake at night and listen to little Charles crying out and sobbing for their mother after she left.

And even though Sarah appears to have achieved a stable family life, she went through a period of teen drinking and anorexia.

 

[georgiea]

Again, before Raine, before Peter Shand-Kydd, the Spencer children lived an almost idyllic childhood at Park House. Certainly it was an aristocratic upbringing that involved nannies...but there was still fun, happiness and love....at least until 1967.

Read the biographies of Sally Bedell-Smith, Anne Edwards, and Sarah Bradford, and Diana's childhood nanny Mary Clarke just for starters.

Diana's unhappiness and emotional turbulence began AFTER her parents acrimonious split.

Moonmaiden we agree. That is what I was trying to write in my post. Diana unhappiness and emotional turbulence began after her parents divorce.

 

[sirhon11234]

I remember reading once that one of Diana's old rommmates said that Diana once said the years she spent living in london with her flatmates was her happiest.
I wouldn't be surprised she was close to her roomates who became family in a way she spent a lot of time with them and they gave her a close family unit she didn't have.

 

[Mirabel]

What do you think- would things have worked out better if Charles had married Jane?
He dated Sarah, wed Diana, but Jane married young to a much older man.
Yet it seems the marriage has been very happy.

I realize What If? questions are impossible to answer; still, I can't help wondering.

 

[Mermaid1962]

This makes sense to me. Those pictures we saw of her in the fall of 1980 and early in 1981 have a bitter-sweet quality in retrospect. At that time, she had work that she liked, she was a healthy weight, and she had an unspoiled prettiness that make those pictures a joy to look at now. There are also no stories from that time that hint at the trouble inside her.

I remember reading once that one of Diana's old rommmates said that Diana once said the years she spent living in london with her flatmates was her happiest.

 

[Vita]

Well he certainly green-lighted his friends to villify her in the press, such as Fatty Soames. Let's also not forget that Camilla, during the Mistress decades, gave regular briefings to the Editor of The Sun "to get Charles' side out". That's hardly taking the high road.

I did not say Charles was innocent. He did exactly what Diana encouraged her friends to do. In the end, those friends were adults and made their own choices regardless of what either Diana and Charles said to them.

I chose my words very carefully. He had made a few embrassing comments about Diana but in the thick of things he absolutely did not go on public record or an interview and villify the former PoW. At least not to my recollection.

As I said before, Charles and Camilla will never have my full on backing because privately, to this day I stand by Diana's actions 90%. I get it. But this is not what this thread is about.

It is about the point where you changed your mind about Diana. And while I did not feel this way about her when the Bashir interview happened-as stated previously-my point is that Diana had a duty as did Charles to maintain the dignity of the crown and respect for what Queen Elizabeth had worked her royal butt to maintain. And she had an opportunity not to stoop low-at least publicly-and remain on the High Street. It does not make her evil but her actions just as accountable as Charles imo. And when it counted, he didn't slam her.

 

[olebabs]

My opinion has never changed about Diana. I was just really sadend to hear how damaged she actually was emotionally. I actually think that applies to Charles as well. Either of them were not able to give anything to other people, because they both needed so much.

The reason I think it works for him and Camilla, is beacause she seems to be the one in charge.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Moonmaiden we agree. That is what I was trying to write in my post. Diana unhappiness and emotional turbulence began after her parents divorce.

Okay then..I apologize if I misunderstood what you were posting.

Mermaid I agree with you about Diana in 1980...she was just sooo pretty in her late teens, when she looked much the way she did in georgiea's avatar.

It drives me mental when people say she was "overweight" when she met Charles! She had never looked healthier, happier or more lovely.

In retrospect, it is awful to realize that there was so much emotional torment just underneath the surface.

 

[georgiea]

Made a mistake in posting.