The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021

[Mbruno]

So Harry thinks that the Americans have titles as part of their names, as German nobles do?

In the UK, titles of nobility are part of a person’s name and identity according to the guidance From the British government that I linked before.

 

[Alison H]

They're both vaccinated so couldn't they see each other?

The Queen and Prince Harry? No - there's no exception to quarantine laws for fully vaccinated people at the moment. There's talk that that could be changed, maybe in August, but at the moment the same rules apply to everyone.

 

[Heavs]

They're both vaccinated so couldn't they see each other?

If you're quarantining then you're not supposed to go out for a walk or have visitors even if you've been vaccinated.

If they want to see each other then it would make more sense to do so after the statue unveiling.

 

[Denville]

In the UK, titles of nobility are part of a person’s name and identity according to the guidance From the British government that I linked before.

harry is living in hte US. Why he is using his title is a mystery, much less why he's using it as his name.

 

[Sandy345]

Harry still has the title and he is a citizen of the UK.

 

[Denville]

Harry still has the title and he is a citizen of the UK.

He is living in the US, which does not recognise titles.. and he was being asked to give his name and surname for his daughter's birth cert. Yet it seems as if he wouldn't or didn't give his name and surname?

 

[Heavs]

Harry still has the title and he is a citizen of the UK.

He does, that's not in question. Some of us are just baffled that he would give his name as "Duke of Sussex HRH" on a US birth certificate and not even something like "Henry Duke of Sussex" let alone Mountbatten-Windsor which some of his titled relatives have used on their own marriage certificates in the UK.

That's neither how his name or title is used in the UK, on Archie's birth certificate or his own when he was born.

He has four personal names and didn't include any of them. His choice but it seems a baffling one.

 

[Denville]

He does, that's not in question. Some of us are just baffled that he would give his name as "Duke of Sussex HRH" on a US birth certificate and not even something like "Henry Duke of Sussex" let alone Mountbatten-Windsor which some of his titled relatives have used on their own marriage certificates in the UK.

He has four personal names and didn't include any of them. His choice but it seems a baffling one.

I cant imagine that that's going to be allowed to stand as a name? Surely the birth reg authoriites are going to say how can this man be called Duke of Sussex, HRH?

 

[Moran]

BTW, does anyone else remember the Sussex spokesperson claiming that it was the RF who changed Archie's certificate from Rachel Meghan to HRH The Duchess of Sussex? There was even the claim that she wouldn't want to be erased from her child's birth certificate, although I don't remember who made it, the spokesperson or a friend.

Now, they claim HRH The Duke of Sussex is Harry's legal name. And there is no doubt they filled it out so. To me, that means that they were the ones who changed Archie's certificate as well.

 

[mothrpoet]

As of father's day 2016 Meghan posted a gushing tribute to him on The Tig which was either just before or just after she met Harry. So it seems that even though they may not have seen each other much she was still close to him, or at least wanted her readers to think that.



I don't see why she wouldn't have wanted to introduce him to Harry before the engagement. He seemed fine up until a few weeks before the wedding. Of course that might have had something to do with her siblings rather than him. But it does seem odd that he was going to be meeting Harry literally at the wedding. They were flying around the world to meet each other without the press being there, surely they could have sneaked into Mexico and gone over the details of everything?



At this point it's all water under the bridge. He doesn't seem very well at all but he's not helping by going these interviews any more than they are.

To me, the most noteworthy, albeit jarring, image from the Sussex wedding was the absolute absence of all family from the bride’s side except for her mother. There was no one at all! I understand the situation with her father, and the rancor with Samantha, but what about Doria’s relations, of whom she has expressed warm memories? What about the uncle who secured her that early plum job in the foreign service? What had he done to deserve rebuke? In light of the title of her recent book, I must say that The Bench at her wedding was brutally devoid of any ties to her own ordinary, mixed-race family. Meghan filled her “bench” with glitterati. The optics of that glaring omission is more searing in my mind than all the flowers, the gown, or the fabulous tiara. It spoke volumes about the bride’s character.

 

[Ghost]

I suppose Harry and Meghan are going to record the baby’s birth with the British Embassy also in order for her to have the British citizenship.
If my supposition is correct, on the British birth certificate Harry and Meghan can use their titles - exactly how it was on the little boy’s birth certificate - and for the American one to use “first name - Henry, middle name - Charles Albert David, last name - Mountbatten-Windsor or Sussex”.
It would be interesting to know if Archie has the American citizenship, if his birth was registered at the American Embassy in London and how his parents were named on this hypothetical certificate.

 

[Kataryn]

BTW, does anyone else remember the Sussex spokesperson claiming that it was the RF who changed Archie's certificate from Rachel Meghan to HRH The Duchess of Sussex? There was even the claim that she wouldn't want to be erased from her child's birth certificate, although I don't remember who made it, the spokesperson or a friend.

Now, they claim HRH The Duke of Sussex is Harry's legal name. And there is no doubt they filled it out so. To me, that means that they were the ones who changed Archie's certificate as well.

Or Harry learned it from the Brits, did in the same way in the US and no probably has to learn each country does it's own way for a birth certificate. Maybe he thought he would have to send it to the UK (or the British consulate in LA?) so they could register her there as well? And so they tried to make it okay fro both countries? AFAIK in the Uk once married, the father counts on the brith certificate. In the US, maybe it's the mother there?

 

[ladyjolene]

To me, the most noteworthy, albeit jarring, image from the Sussex wedding was the absolute absence of all family from the bride’s side except for her mother. There was no one at all! I understand the situation with her father, and the rancor with Samantha, but what about Doria’s relations, of whom she has expressed warm memories? What about the uncle who secured her that early plum job in the foreign service? What had he done to deserve rebuke? In light of the title of her recent book, I must say that The Bench at her wedding was brutally devoid of any ties to her own ordinary, mixed-race family. Meghan filled her “bench” with glitterati. The optics of that glaring omission is more searing in my mind than all the flowers, the gown, or the fabulous tiara. It spoke volumes about the bride’s character.

I thought that was weird too. Even if she has issues with the Markle side, what about the Ragland family? She invited celebs she didn't know.

 

[Alison H]

I felt rather sorry for Doria. It's always a bit awkward to be sat on your own, but to be sat on your own in St George's Chapel, Windsor, with hundreds of people there and TV cameras on you, must have been very odd indeed. Surely they could have asked someone, a friend if not a relative, to accompany her.

 

[Curryong]

Doria wasn’t alone. Where she sat in the Quire she was surrounded by Meghan’s friends, some of whom Meghan had had since college, and who were known to her mother.

 

[Moran]

Or Harry learned it from the Brits, did in the same way in the US and no probably has to learn each country does it's own way for a birth certificate. Maybe he thought he would have to send it to the UK (or the British consulate in LA?) so they could register her there as well? And so they tried to make it okay fro both countries? AFAIK in the Uk once married, the father counts on the brith certificate. In the US, maybe it's the mother there?

Since the only certificate we know was changed was Archie's, are we to suppose that the BRF decided that Meghan was so more Duchess than Catherine that her son's certificate should have reflected her title while Catherine's name remained on all her children's certificates of birth? Including the future king's...

The mother of the future King is listed with her name but the BP decided that the mother of the seventh in line should be listed with her title alone? I find this hard to believe.

 

[ACO]

I felt rather sorry for Doria. It's always a bit awkward to be sat on your own, but to be sat on your own in St George's Chapel, Windsor, with hundreds of people there and TV cameras on you, must have been very odd indeed. Surely they could have asked someone, a friend if not a relative, to accompany her.

Doria was surrounded by people she has known for years. Some she sees as second daughters like Heather, Lindsay, Benita, and Genevieve. Doria's own older brother admitted that their family were not the closest and grew apart due to the death of their mother (who Meghan and Doria cared for -- I wonder of her illness caused the family rift). The family also did not attend Meghan's first wedding. And he also admitted their were issues in the family due to Doria marrying Thomas in the first place.

Doria wasn't the closest to her family outside of when they were together due to her mom and we all know the Markles as a whole aren't the closest family. Are we really surprised? People should stop projecting their family POV on Meghan (and Doria) because we have no idea what these dynamics are like except from the little snippets we hear and most if it states both sides not exactly close and hardly ever have been.

Also FYI -- Doria is very much like Meghan. She was youngest and the second family baby. Doria is a Ragland but her older siblings are not. They are Johnsons. They all share the same mother, Doria has a different father. Doria has a younger paternal brother she has apparently grown close to over the years but he is actually Meghan's age.

Families are complicated. Which is sometimes why people are close to the family they create instead of the ones they were born to.

Also another tibit -- during one of Thomas' many interviews he stated "Meghan takes after her mother quite a bit." and he was referencing to her "ghosting him." So take that as you will.

 

[Somebody]

Or Harry learned it from the Brits, did in the same way in the US and no probably has to learn each country does it's own way for a birth certificate. Maybe he thought he would have to send it to the UK (or the British consulate in LA?) so they could register her there as well? And so they tried to make it okay fro both countries? AFAIK in the Uk once married, the father counts on the brith certificate. In the US, maybe it's the mother there?

How would putting 'HRH' as surname make it ok for the UK?

Putting 'The Duke of Sussex' as surname could work; next to including his real names (Henry etc; if he really wanted to prefixed with HRH prince) - not 'Duke of Sussex' as first name and 'HRH' as surname. That's not at all how it is done in the UK.

 

[Erin9]

Since the only certificate we know was changed was Archie's, are we to suppose that the BRF decided that Meghan was so more Duchess than Catherine that her son's certificate should have reflected her title while Catherine's name remained on all her children's certificates of birth? Including the future king's...

The mother of the future King is listed with her name but the BP decided that the mother of the seventh in line should be listed with her title alone? I find this hard to believe.

I’d forgotten all about Archie’s birth certificate being changed.

Good point about how Catherine’s name is on her children’s birth certificates. And one is a future king.

It certainly seems logical to me that the Sussexes changed Archie’s birth certificate because it was indeed what they wanted. For whatever reason.

I must have too much time on my hands and it turns out it’s true that while Charles put HIS name on the boys birth certificates Diana just had HRH The Princess of Wales. Maybe they wanted to replicate that on Archie’s?

Then they flipped it on Lili’s American birth certificate. Where Meghan puts her legal maiden name. And Harry just puts styles and titles. Americans don’t legally recognize them, but anyway….

 

[Heavs]

I’d forgotten all about Archie’s birth certificate being changed.

Good point about how Catherine’s name is on her children’s birth certificates. And one is a future king.

It certainly seems logical to me that the Sussexes changed Archie’s birth certificate because it was indeed what they wanted. For whatever reason.

I must have too much time on my hands and it turns out it’s true that while Charles put HIS name on the boys birth certificates Diana just had HRH The Princess of Wales. Maybe they wanted to replicate that on Archie’s?

Then they flipped it on Lili’s American birth certificate. Where Meghan puts her legal maiden name. And Harry just puts styles and titles. Americans don’t legally recognize them, but anyway….

It does seem a strange thing to want to emulate Diana in, but you never know. There was also the speculation that it was extra insurance against the Sussex titles being revoked. "You can't it's his mother's name on his birth certificate with nothing else". I don't know how likely that is either. But Harry is once again proving that he does care about it a lot.

I get that Meghan's birth name is very straightforward and Harry's isn't but it still seems ridiculous because DOS HRH isn't even how his name OR titles/styles are in the UK.

 

[Moran]

It's clear that both ways are legit in the UK, this isn't the matter. The matter is Harry chose to present himself solely as connected to the monarchy. And since this time, there can be no doubt that it was their decision, it looks logical that it was so the first time around as well, since it wasn't done for the wife of the second in line. After all their complaints, it just looks odd to me.

If they wanted to emulate Diana, why didn't they say so? There was this clash of contradicting statements that time as well. Meghan said it was the palace. The Palace said it was them. Now, there is only one side that "could have done it" and that makes it more likely that they were the ones whose "recollections varied" the first time. The reason for doing it doesn't bother me, what bothers me is the fact that they said they didn't do it.

 

[Lucy Scot]

I truly believe that no matter what they were given they would never have been happy because what they wanted was to use their titles to make money, do a bit of royal work, STILL draw money from the taxpayer and from Charles.. and generally do what they liked.. with no-one ever arguing with them.
I honestly thought that the queen looked very tired at the wedding, and perhaps she was beginning to realise that this was the case with them.. that they were always asking for something more.

I didn't think that the Queen looked tired. And no one seemed to be in a bad frame of mind at the wedding.

 

[Erin9]

It does seem a strange thing to want to emulate Diana in, but you never know. There was also the speculation that it was extra insurance against the Sussex titles being revoked. "You can't it's his mother's name on his birth certificate with nothing else". I don't know how likely that is either. But Harry is once again proving that he does care about it a lot.



I get that Meghan's birth name is very straightforward and Harry's isn't but it still seems ridiculous because DOS HRH isn't even how his name OR titles/styles are in the UK.

I think both care about titles and styles a lot. Meghan said she didn’t really care about all the trappings of royalty. But- when she opts to rattle on about Archie’s future princely status, it’s perfectly clear those things do matter IMO. If you don’t care, you don’t talk about it.

Their website and passive aggressive comments about the use of Sussexroyal, HRH after the HIHO plan got rejected also drove that home. It was their website/comments. It seems fairly logical that it reflected their shared views. I certainly don’t think they’re blind to the fact that their royal ties are their big selling point.

It is interesting in light of all the bashing of the royal institution itself, family etc how much those things that symbolize all that they ran away from do matter.

 

[Denville]

I think both care about titles and styles a lot. Meghan said she didn’t really care about all the trappings of royalty. But- when she opts to rattle on about Archie’s future princely status, it’s perfectly clear those things do matter IMO. If you don’t care, you don’t talk about it.

Their website and passive aggressive comments about the use of Sussexroyal, HRH after the HIHO plan got rejected also drove that home. It was their website/comments. It seems fairly logical that it reflected their shared views. I certainly don’t think they’re blind to the fact that their royal ties are their big selling point.

It is interesting in light of all the bashing of the royal institution itself, family etc how much those things that symbolize all that they ran away from do matter.

of course it matters. If they were going to the US, and planning to live there, in a republic why the whole thing about Archie's having HRH? Why is her title Duchess of Sussex on the front of her book?

 

[Prinsara]

Because.... it makes you unique and apparently "special" in a republic?

Or was that a rhetorical question?

 

[Osipi]

Families are complicated. Which is sometimes why people are close to the family they create instead of the ones they were born to.

This sums up everything in a tidy, little nutshell. Sometime going through life, you find "family" that is closer to you than any blood relation could be. At my son's wedding, there was a photograph taken of me with the "other mothers". There were four of us. I'm "Granny" to a young woman that I met right here on TRF. Being "family" is a relationship sometimes more than it's a hereditary blood line.

 

[Denville]

But Meghan does apparently have a good relationship with her mother, who has been to see her... Her fahter is an oddball definitely but she's not entirely without sympathetic relatives. And I dont remember Doria having anyone with her in her seat, at the wedding..

 

[LadyGlendower]

I cant imagine that that's going to be allowed to stand as a name? Surely the birth reg authoriites are going to say how can this man be called Duke of Sussex, HRH?

I so want Harry to carry this through and get a California drivers license with "HRH The Duke of Sussex" on it. Sure, he can go to court and make that his legal name in the US--why not? There may be someone running around the US legally named "Burger King". The whole family can change their legal US names to Queen Meghan, Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet.

Tongue in cheek, of course, but they have become so bizarrely superficial at this point that none of their Kardashian moves surprise me anymore.

 

[Lucy Scot]

of course it matters. If they were going to the US, and planning to live there, in a republic why the whole thing about Archie's having HRH?

Because of the unequal treatment of Archie compared to his cousins.

 

[Osipi]

Because of the unequal treatment of Archie compared to his cousins.

If they're complaining about Archie being treated unequally to his cousins, it means that they do not understand nor really care to understand the legitimate reasoning behind it. If William had 5 siblings and all of them had children, those children would have been treated just as "unequally" as they insinuate that Archie was.

The monarchy is a hereditary one and the changes made were pertinent to the monarchy and Archie doesn't figure into those changes at all.