The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021

[Heavs]

I personally found the "Earl of Dumbarton" and Baron "Killkeel" really strange, too. Like "Dumb-a**, first I kill you, then you keel over...-stupid. As if a courtier had made a joke and the queen didn't realise while all around her grinned, waiting for a little baby to be born, to be called Dumb-A**, ääh arton...


If that was planned as it was received, I can imagine that many little stitches led to a big hurt. Oh, I can equally imagine how Meghan came, did not really see but wanted to be victorious and annoyed the elder, senior Royal servants (or however the "grey men" à la Sir Humphrey Appleby were called.) And they were there, probably talking over tea with each other how the new Duchess had such a lot to learn before they could allow her to make her first steps alone. The Palace is a world of its own and when you marry into the Royal family, they will break and mould you so you fit in with theirideas. With the principal in her 90ties, a lot of things surely are done there as they had be done at the time of the queen's grandfather, because that's Court life as the queen grew up in. And Harry as a single man could laugh them off, but Meghan as an "American divorcee" had to deal with them and not many choices.



I still think Harry and Meghan should have kept quiet, a dignified silence and stayed away from journalists. But I strongly believe there is responsibility for that failure of a working Royal-relationship on all sides, not only on H&M.

Dumbarton is a town with ancient royal links. It wasn't supposed to be a "Joke gift". And Kilkeel was meant to recognise a place that has a history of strong unionism. Perhaps there were others that would have suited Harry and Meghan's taste better but they weren't created to make fun of them. And if they refused to use the courtesy title for that reason (and we don't know this is true) then that's their choice to make but also don't cry that Archie doesn't have a title and *gasp* won't necessarily be HRH either.

I pointed out before that whilst many Sussex fans/journalists seem to think that their staff consisted of Sir Humphreys and say so in derogatory terms in reality many members of their staff were young, not British and most were women. This includes one of the people charged with making sure Meghan knew royal history and protocol - Samantha Cohen.

A lot of things are done a certain way but they way to change things isn't to immediately rush in and announce you're the new progressive voice and will be ripping up the rule books. A lot of senior royals do things differently to HM and have their own interests but they don't do it all at once and know when they have to accept certain things as the flip side to all the perks.

The Palace always brief the press, sometimes more wisely than others but some of this information would have been made public anyway like the accounts.

 

[Denville]

Dumbarton is a town with ancient royal links. It wasn't supposed to be a "Joke gift". And Kilkeel was meant to recognise a place that has a history of strong unionism. Perhaps there were others that would have suited Harry and Meghan's taste better but they weren't created to make fun of them.

I.

I can see the idea behind not using Dumbarton but surely Harry could have said this to the queen that if they had a son and he used that title, he'd be getting teased over it, and they could have chosen something else with royal links.

 

[muriel]

Dumbarton is a town in Scotland, from Scottish Gaelic Dùn Breatann or Dùn Breatainn, meaning 'fort of the Britons'

And it's "Baron Kilkeel". Kilkeel is town in Northern Ireland, from Irish: Cill Chaoil, meaning 'church of the narrow'.

Imagine what people in those towns think of they were told that the name of their town were not good enough for royal because it sounded like a joke.

Presumably the queen approved of them?

For the sake of absolute clarity, the tiles of Earl of Dumbarton and Baron Kilkeel were bestowed on Harry at the same time as the title of Duke of Sussex, i.e. on their wedding day. Harry and Meghan would have known of these potential titles from before the wedding, and if they felt strongly, could have probably had a conversation with HM about it to seek alternatives. To worry a year later about them being inappropriate for their son just seems odd.

I can see the idea behind not using Dumbarton but surely Harry could have said this to the queen that if they had a son and he used that title, he'd be getting teased over it, and they could have chosen something else with royal links.

One can only assume that when it came to discussing subsidiary titles to be bestowed on Harry in the run up to the wedding, H&M probably did not pay much attention as they were busy fighting about emerald tiaras, ensuring "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets", chatting up Oprah to ensure she was willing to attend the wedding, possibly stitching up deals with Sunshine Sachs and so on.

 

[Heavs]

I have yet to read any articles written by anyone present when any of the evil doings took place. There is only second, third, or fourth hand hatchet jobs which, by dint of sheer repetition, are accepted as gospel truth. Nothing would hold up it a court of law and a court of law wouldn't hear the case because the media and their little leaking loveys from the palace have well and truly poisoned the water.
.

The people who it allegedly happened to or who witnessed it first hand have given evidence to a law firm involved in investigating the claims and finding a way forward for the Firm. Presumably that's one reason why no one is selling the DM "Sussex Survivors Squad: My Story" because there's an on going investigation and before that the possibility that they would be called to the stand in the privacy case.

The JK emails being concerned seem to be a matter of fact, as are staff leaving and the existence of the investigation by a 3rd party. Even some of the Sussex rebuttals seem to have focused more on "they weren't good enough for Meghan, that's why she was harsh with them" rather than denying there was drama in the workplace.

It's also worth noting that no one has come forward saying "I worked there and Meghan was a tough but fair boss" either.

That said we're probably never going to get a completely impartial look at the events either.

 

[Kataryn]

Dumbarton is a town in Scotland, from Scottish Gaelic Dùn Breatann or Dùn Breatainn, meaning 'fort of the Britons'

And it's "Baron Kilkeel". Kilkeel is town in Northern Ireland, from Irish: Cill Chaoil, meaning 'church of the narrow'.

Imagine what people in those towns think of they were told that the name of their town were not good enough for royal because it sounded like a joke.

I know that there are people living there, just like people live in an Austrian town called "****ing". If they live there, they got used to the jokes, I guess. And yes, I realise that the names were not made up to make jokes but have their origin in the original language of the country. And I can imagine that a lot of people living there could understand that the name of their town was not something some people want for their children's titles.



But it is not about us, the people, or the people living in those towns.It's about the people who were given these names as part of their titles, but who don't like them. People who back then lived in a system they felt not good in. People who faced opposition in their private sphere. People who came to think of the titles as difficult for their kids, while being told they would not (maybe even told they would never) have kids being Prince/Princess but be stuck with these titles, they parents had problems with. That is not the way to deal with people you want to have a peaceful connection to. Yes, there probably are amounts of people who have no problems with these names, but it isn't their problem. So stop saying it doesn't matter because it doesn't matter to them. It does matter to Meghan and Harry, if we are to believe this story, which I can believe when I think about it using my reality-check. And I wonder why they got these titles and not other, more pleasant sounding ones. Especially as other than William's titles, these are the ones to stick with Harry's family.



I personally don't think the queen ever heard about the word "Dumb-A**". Charles probably doesn't know it as well. But Harry knows it and he minds. It is not far from a baby having been called a monkey to one who is named after a Disney-elephant...

So I would love to find out who championed these names for Harry...

 

[muriel]

"Some recollections may vary" isn't it ?

I'm shoked to learn that the Sussexes somewhat overdramatize their financial situation on live TV in their self-pitying quest against the BRF (not).

Those are the new "Alternative facts" californian style i guess.

Anyway, thanks for this much needed morning laugh.

One really queries the credibility of what H&M have to say when they so publicly and blatantly try and put out a false narrative. Do they really want to build their caring and empathatic brand on a series of lies that are slowly and surely being debunked?

I personally don't think the queen ever heard about the word "Dumb-A**". Charles probably doesn't know it as well. But Harry knows it and he minds. It is not far from a baby having been called a monkey to one who is named after a Disney-elephant...

So I would love to find out who championed these names for Harry...

I can't comment on whether the Queen or Charles are familiar with the term "Dumb-A**", but I am sure that they are familiar with the term dumb.

I know that there are people living there, just like people live in an Austrian town called "****ing". If they live there, they got used to the jokes, I guess. And yes, I realise that the names were not made up to make jokes but have their origin in the original language of the country. And I can imagine that a lot of people living there could understand that the name of their town was not something some people want for their children's titles.



But it is not about us, the people, or the people living in those towns.It's about the people who were given these names as part of their titles, but who don't like them. People who back then lived in a system they felt not good in. People who faced opposition in their private sphere. People who came to think of the titles as difficult for their kids, while being told they would not (maybe even told they would never) have kids being Prince/Princess but be stuck with these titles, they parents had problems with. That is not the way to deal with people you want to have a peaceful connection to. Yes, there probably are amounts of people who have no problems with these names, but it isn't their problem. So stop saying it doesn't matter because it doesn't matter to them. It does matter to Meghan and Harry, if we are to believe this story, which I can believe when I think about it using my reality-check. And I wonder why they got these titles and not other, more pleasant sounding ones. Especially as other than William's titles, these are the ones to stick with Harry's family.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, these titles were bestowed upon Harry at the time of his wedding, the same time as when the title of Duke of Sussex was bestowed. All of these titles would have been discussed with Harry and Meghan at the time, and if they felt strongly, their feels would have been considered. So I am not quite sure what all the fuss is about, as Harry would have known that his son would be entitled to use his subsidiary title of Earl of Dumbarton.

 

[Alison H]

I personally found the "Earl of Dumbarton" and Baron "Killkeel" really strange, too. Like "Dumb-a**, first I kill you, then you keel over...-stupid. As if a courtier had made a joke and the queen didn't realise while all around her grinned, waiting for a little baby to be born, to be called Dumb-A**, ääh arton...

Dumbarton is the name of a town in Scotland. It comes from the Gaelic term Dun Breatann, meaning British fortress. It was the capital of the ancient Kingdom of Strathclyde.

Kilkeel comes from the Irish Cill Chaoil, meaning church of the narrow, after a church that's been there since the Middle Ages. Kildare, Killarney, Kilkerry, Kilkeen ... is there something funny about every "Kil" name in Ireland? Or what about Cillian Murphy?

I don't suppose it occurred to either the Queen or Prince Charles that anyone would be childish enough to confuse Dumbarton with the name of the cute Disney flying elephant.

Plenty of names sound vaguely amusing if you're being childish about it. I'm sure some very immature people find it hilarious that Sussex includes the word "sex" (from Saxon). Amongst the names of Asian kids I was at school with were Sadaf, which sounds like "s*d off" in English, and As*t, which is pronounced "A-sh*t", and, yes, kids did pick up on that, but only briefly. Most people really aren't silly enough to keep making a big deal because someone's name sounds like something jokey. And, as Muriel said, if Harry had really had such a problem with the name Dumbarton, I'm sure the Queen could have chosen a different title at the time.


Does anyone seriously think that the Queen sat there thinking "Tee-hee, let's give Harry's kids titles which some idiot at school might make fun of, but let's give William's kids titles which sound more pleasant? What a jolly good joke! I know, let's go for "Earl of Dumbarton" because it includes the word "dumb""? If so, I'd love to know why!

 

[Denville]

I know that there are people living there, just like people live in an Austrian town called "****ing". If they live there, they got used to the jokes, I guess. And yes, I realise that the names were not made up to make jokes but have their origin in the original language of the country. And I can imagine that a lot of people living there could understand that the name of their town was not something some people want for their children's titles.



t think the queen ever heard about the word "Dumb-A**". Charles probably doesn't know it as well. But Harry knows it and he minds. It is not far from a baby having been called a monkey to one who is named after a Disney-elephant...

So I would love to find out who championed these names for Harry...

So if it bohtered Harry so much, why not discuss it with the queen and his father before he accepted the titles?

Dumbarton is the name of a town in Scotland. It comes from the Gaelic term Dun Breatann, meaning British fortress. It was the capital of the ancient Kingdom of Strathclyde.


Does anyone seriously think that the Queen sat there thinking "Tee-hee, let's give Harry's kids titles which some idiot at school might make fun of, but let's give William's kids titles which sound more pleasant? What a jolly good joke! I know, let's go for "Earl of Dumbarton" because it includes the word "dumb""? If so, I'd love to know why!

I think the idea is that the queen's advisers wanted Harry and Meg to look foolish so they suggested these titles, and the queen having led a sheltered life, accepted them.... but

 

[AC21091968]

In regards to story about Harry & Meghan rejected the subsidiary title, Earl of Dumbarton for Archie, it was originally released from the Telegraph. The article was written by Camilla Tominey

Exclusive: Harry and Meghan rejected Earl of Dumbarton title for Archie for containing word 'dumb'
Sources reveal they declined to use the title as they feared their son would be bullied or attract unfortunate nicknames
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1624482281

Archived link: https://archive.ph/QHfdd

Dumbarton is the name of a town in Scotland. It comes from the Gaelic term Dun Breatann, meaning British fortress. It was the capital of the ancient Kingdom of Strathclyde.

Kilkeel comes from the Irish Cill Chaoil, meaning church of the narrow, after a church that's been there since the Middle Ages. Kildare, Killarney, Kilkerry, Kilkeen ... is there something funny about every "Kil" name in Ireland? Or what about Cillian Murphy?

I don't suppose it occurred to either the Queen or Prince Charles that anyone would be childish enough to confuse Dumbarton with the name of the cute Disney flying elephant.

Plenty of names sound vaguely amusing if you're being childish about it. I'm sure some very immature people find it hilarious that Sussex includes the word "sex" (from Saxon). Amongst the names of Asian kids I was at school with were Sadaf, which sounds like "s*d off" in English, and As*t, which is pronounced "A-sh*t", and, yes, kids did pick up on that, but only briefly. Most people really aren't silly enough to keep making a big deal because someone's name sounds like something jokey. And, as Muriel said, if Harry had really had such a problem with the name Dumbarton, I'm sure the Queen could have chosen a different title at the time.


Does anyone seriously think that the Queen sat there thinking "Tee-hee, let's give Harry's kids titles which some idiot at school might make fun of, but let's give William's kids titles which sound more pleasant? What a jolly good joke! I know, let's go for "Earl of Dumbarton" because it includes the word "dumb""? If so, I'd love to know why!

Speaking of the devil, Mark Wallace, Chief Executive of ConservativeHome retweeted the Telegraph's linked/chained tweets and mentioned about the word in "Sussex"

Mark Wallace @wallaceme
Luckily there are no other words at all hidden in “Sussex”.
8:13 AM · Jun 24, 2021·Twitter for iPhone​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1407824189550174210

Jackie Baillie, MSP for Dumbarton, Scottish Labour Deputy Leader jokingly tweeted with a meme of herself in response to the tweet by Joe Pike, who tagged her.

Jackie Baillie @jackiebmsp
Too late! [Face with tears of joy] I am reflecting on this low blow and will issue a full statement in the morning. In the meantime…..
7:24 AM · Jun 24, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1407811772044689417

Joe Pike's (Sky News Political correspondent) tweet, who also retweeted Telegraph's linked/chained tweet and tagged Jackie Baillie

Joe Pike @joepike
No one tell @jackiebmsp.
7:12 AM · Jun 24, 2021·TweetDeck​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1407808697015930886

Anas Sarwar, Leader of Scottish Labour also joked and tagged his colleague, Jackie Baillie in response to the rejection of Earl of Dumbarton.

Anas Sarwar @AnasSarwar
The Queen… of Dumbarton @jackiebmsp is not going to be happy! [Crown]
7:19 AM · Jun 24, 2021·Twitter for iPhone​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1407810626261487619

Colin Brazier, GB News presenter also mocked the rejection of Earl of Dumbarton title. This time he mentioned about Isles of Scilly. Some of the replied comments also pointed about Scunthorpe.

Colin Brazier @colinbrazierGBN
The Dukedom of the Isles of Scilly never stood a chance.
3:59 PM · Jun 24, 2021·Twitter Web App​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1407941399081857024

I agree with you that it's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that The Queen and even Palace staff deliberately give the subsidiary titles Earl of Dumbarton and Baron Kilkeel as a joke, so that Harry & Meghan's would be bullied at school.

Edited: I found the archived link for the Telegraph article

 

[ACO]

Maybe I missed something…

They said Harry and Meghan were funded until March 2020. That was in the reports last year and this year. It also states Harry’s “surprise” repayment of the £2.4M actually helped the royal financials year. Harry never claimed Charles didn’t give him anything. That was said last year in the interview and in the released report. And even the spokesperson doesn’t deny it. Would be interesting to see the numbers of the “substantial” funds. It’s easy to claim with no details but hey… the Sussexes are guilty of doing the same. *shrugs*

Also this Dumbarton story is so ridiculous. All I can do is laugh. Of all these silly stories to come out about this this might be the DUMBEST thing I ever heard, but it got people not talking about other things. Which my guess was the point.

 

[Denville]

Maybe I missed something…

They said Harry and Meghan were funded until March 2020. That was in the reports last year and this year. It also states Harry’s “surprise” repayment of the £2.4M actually helped the royal financials year. Harry never claimed Charles didn’t give him anything. That was said last year in the interview and in the released report. And even the spokesperson doesn’t deny it. Would be interesting to see the numbers of the “substantial” funds. It’s easy to claim with no details but hey… the Sussexes are guilty of doing the same. *shrugs*

Also this Dumbarton story is so ridiculous. All I can do is laugh. Of all these silly stories to come out about this this might be the DUMBEST thing I ever heard, but it got people not talking about other things. Which my guess was the point.

So any particular reason why they seem upset at the idea that Archie might not be a Prince, but they didn't use the title that he CAN use?

 

[ACO]

So any particular reason why they seem upset at the idea that Archie might not be a Prince, but they didn't use the title that he CAN use?

I don’t know. Maybe they were also strongly advised not to use that either. Seems titles and names are major issues regarding Sussex kids. Maybe that will be the next exclusive…

Though in all seriousness after she was told her children would not be titled they likely decided to not give him any. Clearly it was an issue at the time. They didn’t want him titled, so he isn’t.

After two years and all the drama… I am to believe they didn’t name him this cause it has dumb? Sorry. This reads like satire.

 

[Denville]

I don’t know. Maybe they were also strongly advised not to use that either. Seems titles and names are major issues regarding Sussex kids. Maybe that will be the next exclusive…

Though in all seriousness after she was told her children would not be titled they likely decided to not give him any. Clearly it was an issue at the time. They didn’t want him titled, so he isn’t.

But she must have known that Archie would not have a prince title until Charles was king and that Charles was also thinking in terms of slimming down the HRH's... So it was hardly a surprise to know that Archie would nto be a prince for some time and maybe never. If they didn't wnat him to be titled, what was the issue? If they just wanted him to be an ordinary kid, then clearly they would not want him to have the HRH.. and yet they did seem to be angry about it. And if they weren't that bothered about titles at all, they could have announced during the pregnancy that their children although entitled to courtesy titles, would n't use them and would just be Master and Miss Mountbatten Windsor.
I can't imagine that the queen for example who is very old fashioned, would have suggested that they didn't use the courtesy titles that she had bestowed. Why woudl she give titles and then say "Dont use them"? Who else would advise them not to use titles???

 

[ACO]

But she must have known that Archie would not have a prince title until Charles was king and that Charles was also thinking in terms of slimming down the HRH's... So it was hardly a surprise to know that Archie would nto be a prince for some time and maybe never. If they didn't wnat him to be titled, what was the issue? If they just wanted him to be an ordinary kid, then clearly they would not want him to have the HRH.. and yet they did seem to be angry about it. And if they weren't that bothered about titles at all, they could have announced during the pregnancy that their children although entitled to courtesy titles, would n't use them and would just be Master and Miss Mountbatten Windsor.
I can't imagine that the queen for example who is very old fashioned, would have suggested that they didn't use the courtesy titles that she had bestowed. Why woudl she give titles and then say "Dont use them"? Who else would advise them not to use titles???

Again. No clue but we can ask one of the sources who seems to know it all. Besides it doesn’t have to be the Queen who suggested it as we have seen time and time again.

They didn’t give him a title. Meghan spoke of that one instant during her pregnancy where she was asked for an answer and was apparently not given one. She was frustrated because it appeared to want to start with her children and she rightfully wanted to know why. Even now CH doesn’t want to discuss it, which is understandable, as we all know where it will lead.

So Archie has no title and I assume will never have one.

 

[yukari]

Dumbarton is the name of a town in Scotland. It comes from the Gaelic term Dun Breatann, meaning British fortress. It was the capital of the ancient Kingdom of Strathclyde.

Kilkeel comes from the Irish Cill Chaoil, meaning church of the narrow, after a church that's been there since the Middle Ages. Kildare, Killarney, Kilkerry, Kilkeen ... is there something funny about every "Kil" name in Ireland? Or what about Cillian Murphy?

I don't suppose it occurred to either the Queen or Prince Charles that anyone would be childish enough to confuse Dumbarton with the name of the cute Disney flying elephant.

Plenty of names sound vaguely amusing if you're being childish about it. I'm sure some very immature people find it hilarious that Sussex includes the word "sex" (from Saxon). Amongst the names of Asian kids I was at school with were Sadaf, which sounds like "s*d off" in English, and As*t, which is pronounced "A-sh*t", and, yes, kids did pick up on that, but only briefly. Most people really aren't silly enough to keep making a big deal because someone's name sounds like something jokey. And, as Muriel said, if Harry had really had such a problem with the name Dumbarton, I'm sure the Queen could have chosen a different title at the time.


Does anyone seriously think that the Queen sat there thinking "Tee-hee, let's give Harry's kids titles which some idiot at school might make fun of, but let's give William's kids titles which sound more pleasant? What a jolly good joke! I know, let's go for "Earl of Dumbarton" because it includes the word "dumb""? If so, I'd love to know why!

Agree.
Whatever the name, when someone want to make a mockery of it, there will always way to do it.

A certain faction on internet has been calling the Cambridge with "Camb*tch", the kids use it as their surname at school so at some point perhaps someone might call Charlotte with "Camb*tch"?

Some other faction on internet has also been making a mockery of Sussex, one of it is "Sue-sex" (their habit of suing and old record of the Duchess doing some intimate scene on screen). Could Archie or Lili be "teased" with the name? Sadly, yes.

Again, internet is forever and what the Sussexes have been doing recently seems only adding more mockery towards them. I've seen several posts/videos made by non-royal watcher African-American netizen after Oprah interview (no previous royal related post before the interview, so the racist/British/royalist card can't be applied to them). I'm not a fan of the Sussexes, but those posts are beyond nasty, not to mention the comments below. And seeing it garners more audience (boost especially by megxiter), they make more similar contents (pretty sure the new Lifetime movie will give them more new materials), even though they seem to know nothing about the couple before the interview. I just hope Archie, Lili, and their future classmates would never ever find and watch it because school bullying, even by kid as young as 7 years old can be very horrible.

 

[Denville]

Again. No clue but we can ask one of the sources who seems to know it all. Besides it doesn’t have to be the Queen who suggested it as we have seen time and time again.

They didn’t give him a title. Meghan spoke of that one instant during her pregnancy where she was asked for an answer and was apparently not given one. She was frustrated because it appeared to want to start with her children and she rightfully wanted to know why. Even now CH doesn’t want to discuss it, which is understandable, as we all know where it will lead.

So Archie has no title.

Sorry but what does this mean "they didn't give him a title"?? Of course he did not get a Prince title as he IS NOT the grandson of the monarch. What answer was she asked for?
And he DOES have a title that he can use, Harry's secondary title Lord Dumbarton or the third title, Lord Kilkeel. So if titles are so important to Meghan why not use one of these? And if they are not so important to her what was the fuss about ? Considering they were probalby planning to go to the US by the time of A's birth I can't quite understand why they wanted him to use any title....

 

[ACO]

Sorry but what does this mean "tehy didn't give him a title"?? Of course he did not get a Prince title as he IS NOT the grandson of the monarch. What answer was she asked for?
And he DOES have a title that he can use, Harry's secondary title Lord Dumbarton or the third title, Lord Kilkeel. So if titles are so imporant to Meghan why not use one of these? And if they are not so important to her what was the fuss about ?

They as in Harry and Meghan. Again all this came from a time when Meghan was pregnant with Archie. It isn’t current. She was discussing her frustration and confusion at the time. Once she didn’t get answers about them not wanting their children titled, they seemingly agreed. They aren’t at all.

We have no idea what happened in these conversations as no one will give details nor really discuss it. Even now as it’s front pages news again nothing farther has been mentioned about it on either side, so until they answer that we will never really know.

But my assumption that will change soon because Charles has to make a decision about his grandchildren at some point. Won’t be wise to wait until they inherit the HRH and then strip it.

 

[Denville]

They as in Harry and Meghan. Again all this came from a time when Meghan was pregnant with Archie. It isn’t current. She was discussing her frustration and confusion at the time. Once she didn’t get answers about them not wanting their children titled, they seemingly agreed. They aren’t at all.

We have no idea what happened in these conversations as no one will give details nor really discuss it. Even now as it’s front pages news again nothing farther has been mentioned about it on either side, so until they answer that we will never really know.

But my assumption that will change soon because Charles has to make a decision about his grandchildren at some point. Won’t be wise to wait until they inherit the HRH and then strip it.

I still dont know whom you mean by "they", sorry. Harry and Meghan cant give titles. The queen was not going to give Archie an HRH because he's not the grandchild of a monarch.. he's the great grandchild. And who is the "they" who "seemingly agreed" to the children not being title? Harry and Meghan? the courtiers?
None of this makes sense. They claimed not to want Archie to be a public figure.. so calling him Master Archie was fair enough.. so why the apparent horror that he would not get HRH even though it was NOT going to happen anyway.
Charles may decide that it is better to have less HRHs.. and he may have wished for his son to be agreeable, as Edward was to his children not being styled as HRH even if technically they are entitled to it.. and that any further children of younger sons would not get it at all (new LPs).

 

[AC21091968]

Agree.
Whatever the name, when someone want to make a mockery of it, there will always way to do it.

A certain faction on internet has been calling the Cambridge with "Camb*tch", the kids use it as their surname at school so at some point perhaps someone might call Charlotte with "Camb*tch"?

Some other faction on internet has also been making a mockery of Sussex, one of it is "Sue-sex" (their habit of suing and old record of the Duchess doing some intimate scene on screen). Could Archie or Lili be "teased" with the name? Sadly, yes.

Again, internet is forever and what the Sussexes have been doing recently seems only adding more mockery towards them. I've seen several posts/videos made by non-royal watcher African-American netizen after Oprah interview (no previous royal related post before the interview, so the racist/British/royalist card can't be applied to them). I'm not a fan of the Sussexes, but those posts are beyond nasty, not to mention the comments below. And seeing it garners more audience (boost especially by megxiter), they make more similar contents (pretty sure the new Lifetime movie will give them more new materials), even though they seem to know nothing about the couple before the interview. I just hope Archie, Lili, and their future classmates would never ever find and watch it because school bullying, even by kid as young as 7 years old can be very horrible.

Very well said that school children/students could be very cruel and nasty not just social media troll or "unhinged" adults behind the keyboard! This does not exclude the royal children, without sounding pessimistic.

Boris Johnson (Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson) was teased about one of his middle name, de Pfeffel, when he was at Eton. According to Rachel Johnson (Journalist and Boris' sister) in a SVT interview with Skavlan, Boris' passport was defaced and the name de Pfeffel was crossed out with "de Pee Pee" written on top. Rachel Johnson also mentioned about the atmosphere in boarding schools which was intense.

Video starts at 1:35 and ends at 2:48

de Pfeffel was Johnson's ancestor family surname with aristocratic connections.
BBC - Who Do You Think You Are? - Boris Johnson - How we did it - European Aristocracy

 

[Moran]

I can see the idea behind not using Dumbarton but surely Harry could have said this to the queen that if they had a son and he used that title, he'd be getting teased over it, and they could have chosen something else with royal links.

Where would he be teased, though? Would his teachers actually say, "Earl of Dumbarton, well done!", "Earl of Dumbarton, you're suspended because you've arrived without your homework three times in a row!"?

IOW, would Dumbarton or Kilkeel be used in his everyday life in front of his peers?

 

[Denville]

Where would he be teased, though? Would his teachers actually say, "Earl of Dumbarton, well done!", "Earl of Dumbarton, you're suspended because you've arrived without your homework three times in a row!"?

IOW, would Dumbarton or Kilkeel be used in his everyday life in front of his peers?

he'd use his title as a surname so he'd be "Archie Dumbarton", and possibly some other kids would call him Dummy or Dumbo. Kids do that sort of thing.

 

[Alison H]

Agree.
Whatever the name, when someone want to make a mockery of it, there will always way to do it.

A certain faction on internet has been calling the Cambridge with "Camb*tch", the kids use it as their surname at school so at some point perhaps someone might call Charlotte with "Camb*tch"?

Some other faction on internet has also been making a mockery of Sussex, one of it is "Sue-sex" (their habit of suing and old record of the Duchess doing some intimate scene on screen). Could Archie or Lili be "teased" with the name? Sadly, yes.
.

Poor Sarah was nicknamed "the Duchess of Pork" because she was quite overweight at one time. People will make silly jokes about anything! Suggesting that anyone deliberately chose the name "Dumbarton" because it contained "Dumb" is just preposterous - it sounds like something out of an episode of Blackadder.

When Archie was born, it was just accepted that Harry and Meghan had chosen for him not to use a title, which fitted in with their decision only to give him two names, neither of which were royal names. No-one really thought it was a really big deal.

 

[Moran]

he'd use his title as a surname so he'd be "Archie Dumbarton", and possibly some other kids would call him Dummy or Dumbo. Kids do that sort of thing.

Hmm. I thought he could just use Sussex if this was so important.

 

[Curryong]

Children of seven upwards don’t always get all information about fellow pupils from their teachers. For instance Edward and Sophie’s son has the pleasant-sounding secondary title of his father, Viscount Severn.

I don’t think James would be addressed that way at school by his teachers but I would imagine that all his fellow pupils will have read in the media about his title at one stage or another. Or heard their parents mention it.

There’s no teasing to be gained from Severn, like there is from Dumbarton however, so I doubt James suffers any insults.

I think the Queen was oblivious to Dumbarton’s connotations and her advisers were indifferent to them. In other words, I don’t think the advisers cared either way. It was ‘take it or leave it’ in their eyes, IMO.

 

[Denville]

Hmm. I thought he could just use Sussex if this was so important.

not really. The convention is that the children of a peer use the family's surname.. (which would be Mountbatten Windsor) for the younger children and the heir uses the secondary title.. If Harry/Meghan really felt that "Dumbarton " was a terrible name that would expose the kid to teasing, they could have raised the issue earlier.. or announced that he'd be known by Baron Kilkeel so he'd be Archie Kilkeel at school.
IMO they made an issue about the HRH because they could tie it in iwht "racism"...

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Hmm. I thought he could just use Sussex if this was so important.

Well, I guess the name Sussex comes with some bullying potential....

 

[muriel]

Children of seven upwards don’t always get all information about fellow pupils from their teachers. For instance Edward and Sophie’s son has the pleasant-sounding secondary title of his father, Viscount Severn.

I don’t think James would be addressed that way at school by his teachers but I would imagine that all his fellow pupils will have read in the media about his title at one stage or another. Or heard their parents mention it.

My guess is that, at school, James goes by the name of James Wessex, like William Wales, Harry Wales, George Cambridge, Charlotte Cambridge and Louis Cambridge. Just like Archie could have gone by the name of Archie Sussex.

 

[Heavs]

I think he could be Earl of Dumbarton and use Mountbatten-Windsor at school. Whilst it's customary for peers to use their titles as their surname there are instances of the BRF using M-W (Prince William in the topless pics case IIRC). Louise is technically Mountbatten-Windsor but shortens it to just "Windsor" for every day use. I don't know what James uses at school.

To be fair the Telegraph article seems to cover all bases with some other sources claiming they didn't want a title and others claiming they were afraid that Charles was going to issue new LPs.

I went to school with someone who has a title and it wasn't used at all at school. Her parents used their titles on forms IIRC but all the children used the family name not their parents' title name at school.

 

[Denville]

My guess is that, at school, James goes by the name of James Wessex, like William Wales, Harry Wales, George Cambridge, Charlotte Cambridge and Louis Cambridge. Just like Archie could have gone by the name of Archie Sussex.

Correctly he'd be James Severn.. (or James Mountbatten Windsor like Louise).

 

[texankitcat]

And yet, they were happy with calling him “Master” Archie instead? In what way did they think that would be accepted in America? These two make zero sense.