The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021

[Sandy345]

The man was an elderly man with poor health and probably a bit reclusive. If they wanted him at the wedding, why not go and see the man during the courtship? They were flying around like crazy so another air trip would hardly have been that difficult for them. Sending him an airline ticket was hardly courteous.

He stopped being reclusive in a hurry when approached by the media. I would have liked to have someone send ME an airline ticket if I were invited to my relative's wedding in another country. I saw nothing wrong with that at all. They even paid for and arranged to have him picked up by limo. He seems healthy enough to be active in arranging TV specials and interviews.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

To Royalist: She was an outsider from another country. Unfortunately, there could be some negativity about that. Some staff's attitudes may not have been changed by merely talking to them.

I noticed thousands of user comments coming in condemning Meghan in the DM about a "fake news" story.

All people are equal. I don't think Harry wanted to "leapfrog" over his brother and be the one in line to be King. I don't think Meghan wanted to be a Queen Consort either. I don't blame Harry for being suspicious of the press considering...

The business with her dad was chronicled in various biographies including Morton's. They DID try to reach her father, had a limo booked to pick him up and had sent him an airline ticket. He preferred to pose for the media and admitted later he got $30,000 for it. I don't get why he is treated like some passive thing that his daughter and son in law had to try to change. They wanted him at the wedding. Dad was living in Mexico and the media found him and he was taken in by them. He is an adult and not a baby and he did as he darn well pleased despite what Meghan and Harry wanted him to do which ws go to the wedding.

I don’t think Harry and Meghan expected to be “king and Queen” either. I do think, however, that protocol of being second to the Cambridge’s didn’t suit Meghan.

As far as her dad, I hear what you’re saying and the $30,000 was awful. I am talking about way before the wedding. Before they got engaged the Markle family needed help (that it doesn’t sound like they got) to deal with the whole media interest in Meghan marrying into the RF - ANY family would need help. So I don’t know if this was Harry’s responsibility or their comms folks but somebody dropped the ball. And I still think they could have flown to Mexico to meet him at any time during dating.

 

[Denville]

He stopped being reclusive in a hurry when approached by the media. I would have liked to have someone send ME an airline ticket if I were invited to my relative's wedding in another country. I saw nothing wrong with that at all. They even paid for and arranged to have him picked up by limo. He seems healthy enough to be active in arranging TV specials and interviews.

he didn't look very helathy to me, and he is her FATHER, for goodness sake. If she was so close to him that she wanted him to walk her down the aisle, why not go and see him and discuss thhings? If it didn't work out, then she had done her best...

 

[Sandy345]

Royalist, William is the heir to the heir not monarch. I don't think he expected his brother to feel "inferior" to him. Nor should he have.

Thomas Markle is an older man not a child, he did what he wanted to do when the media came calling.

Thomas Markle was not taking Meghan's phone calls. Nor Harry's. He should have met them half way at the very least.

 

[Denville]

Royalist, William is the heir to the heir not monarch. I don't think he expected his brother to feel "inferior" to him. Nor should he have.

Thomas Markle is an older man not a child, he did what he wanted to do when the media came calling.

Thomas Markle was not taking Meghan's phone calls. Nor Harry's. He should have met them half way at the very least.

So why did Meghan expect him to go to the wedding? If he was so unreliable and she was upset at his getting some money from the Press, why not just let him come to the wedding if he wished but not expect him, and not expect him to escort her.

 

[Alison H]

I think it was difficult for Thomas Markle. One minute, he was just leading his life quietly. The next, he had photographers following him every time he popped out for a loaf of bread or a pint of milk. How many of us would be able to cope with that?


Didn't Thomas say that Harry rang him to ask for Meghan's hand in marriage? All right, it's just a convention, and it's not as if it was actually up to him to make the decision, but the relationship was obviously close enough for Harry to consider that appropriate ... and yet they've never actually met.

 

[Sandy345]

Denville, She and Harry expected him to go to the wedding. To be fair, he did not return Harry and Meghan's phone calls. This is the choice TOM made. The man could not be forced. I don't think it was the money he got from the press I think that it was that he chose to go to them instead of being interested in going to the wedding instead. There was none of this "drama" with her mother. Both parents should have gone.

Alison, Tom worked in TV with the media, he was not inexperienced with media. If I had been Tom, I would have chosen family over the media. He made his choice, he is a grownup and that's the path he wanted to go on.

 

[Heavs]

Sandy, I respectfully disagree with you that “ all the staff might not have been exactly friendly with her when Meghan came on board.” I think absolutely the opposite. After the disaster when Diana came on board, I imagine that ALL staff had been told from the very top that the expectations were to be welcoming, professional, and as helpful as possible to Meghan. The BRF wanted this to work! A biracial royal woman representing the RF for the Commonwealth? A PR dream for keeping the RF “up with the times” and a way to better insure that individual nations in the Commonwealth had a member of the RF who was relatable so the countries would stay in the Commonwealth!

IMHO Meghan and Harry blew it with wanting things their way, as well as wanting to be equal to Will and Kate, as well as Harry’s paranoia about the press. The business with her dad was unbelievable. They could have gotten on a plane and gone to talk with him in person before getting married and solved all the drama. In healthy families who gets engaged or married without meeting the parents of their intended?

It is very sad, but the Sussexes need to take some responsibility for the mess they created.

The top bit is actually what a lot of RRs have said. That the staff and family were very aware that this was a great sign of "keeping up with the times" and were also acutely aware of Meghan being a liberal American and so made sure that she had as much help as possible and was introduced to Americans who were connected to the BRF and aristocracy so she had a group of likeminded acquaintances. They were hopeful but the last thing they wanted was basically what happened.

And all this was allegedly ignored by Meghan who was determined to do things her way and didn't want to fit in. They both believed their own press about being "trailblazers" for a new monarchy. Which is pretty much what FF said.

It should also be noted again that many of her staff were not British, many were women [...] so she wasn't surrounded by ancient [...] people determined for her to fail who had no idea what the modern workplace was like.

Both Sussexes seem incapable of admitting they were the tiniest bit at fault. Not even "we could have handled that better" in a vague way. Harry even complained about the reception he got at PPs funeral a month after the interview which occurred whilst Philip was in hospital. Did he think his family were going to be happy about that?

She didn’t say (as I recall): I asked for assistance with the anthem and the staff refused to help. I don’t think she “had” to google it. She opted to. No one is going to perfectly anticipate ALL your questions, concerns, issues, etc.

In any workplace that I have ever been in- questions are encouraged. I would think, given the new environment- Meghan was encouraged to ask if she didn’t know something.

The thing is whilst I think some things like this are true she "had" to google, this is a woman who's friends publicly said she's the person who when they're moving to a new city buys guide books and makes scrap books for people highlighting everything they need to know and all the things she knows they like doing in each particular city or country.

If she supposedly loved doing this for her friends then surely she's the kind of person who would start googling everything about the UK/BRF the second it looked like this could turn serious. It's not like there's a shortage of info.

One of these things about her isn't true.

 

[Moran]

Personally, I wouldn't have gone. If my child is hiding me, IMO that means that they are ashamed of me. Harry never meeting Thomas when the relationship became serious speaks volumes. You don't come to me with, "That's H., mom, we've known each other for a year and we decided to marry!" If I'm not important enough to show me to the new most important person in your life when you had the chance (Harry and Meghan weren't people forced by circumstances to barely see their parents), then I'm not maintaining the farce that we're so close and I should come to your wedding.

 

[Denville]

Denville, She and Harry expected him to go to the wedding. To be fair, he did not return Harry and Meghan's phone calls. This is the choice TOM made. The man could not be forced. I don't think it was the money he got from the press I think that it was that he chose to go to them instead of being interested in going to the wedding instead. There was none of this "drama" with her mother. Both parents should have gone.

Alison, Tom worked in TV with the media, he was not inexperienced with media. If I had been Tom, I would have chosen family over the media. He made his choice, he is a grownup and that's the path he wanted to go on.

My understanding was that he had some heart trouble and ended up in hospital.. and clearly he is reclusive and might well have become unnerved at the prospect of travelling to the UK to take part in a wedding in front of the world's tv cameras.. with a daughter he hadn't seen for ages. There was nothing to stop Meghan visiting him and fi she did, and he wouldn't talk to her or let her down she had the knowledge that she had tried her best....

 

[Sandy345]

Moran, HOw did Meghan "hide" her father? He is a grown up not a child. He made his choices to hide out. And yes, he is responsible for his own decisions. They would have welcomed Tom to the UK and sent him an airline ticket. HE chose not to return their calls.

Denville, Tom is not shy, he went before the cameras and appeared in newspapers and on websites he even starred in his own "special." For all that is known, Tom did not want Meghan and Harry coming over to see him. The man makes his own choices and decisions and apparently cannot be forced to do what he does not want to do, he does what suits himself the best.

 

[Moran]

Sandy345 By not arranging a meeting between him and Harry well before the decision to marry was made.

My grandparents live in a village in the middle of nowhere. I still managed to show the important men in my life to them. As far as I know, Thomas wasn't hiding from Meghan. In fact, in the beginning of her relationship with Harry she was still singing her father's praises. He just moved abroad.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

To Royalist: She was an outsider from another country. Unfortunately, there could be some negativity about that. Some staff's attitudes may not have been changed by merely talking to them.

At least one of their senior staffers is an American. JK. Meghan wasn’t exactly the only foreigner in the office.

 

[Moran]

If there was someone with negativity in the team, it was Meghan. She's the only one whose negative attitude is proven.

Meghan claims that she knew nothing about the BRF, yet even before entering it, she was getting geared up to modernize it. Aka, I don't like how you've been doing things for some 1000 years. Let me show you how it's done.

This is the attitude she displayed openly for all the world to see. It absolutely fits with her being disgruntled that her staff wasn't up to running the work as she wanted it run.

She was the newcomer. The one who wanted to make changes before she even knew what she was enrolling herself for. And she wanted it her way or no way.

 

[Sandy345]

Nothing really has been proven. Meghan never said she aimed to "modernize" the monarchy. Her relationship with her staff was not like a reality show where every minute was seen by the world.

 

[Denville]

Nothing really has been proven. Meghan never said she aimed to "modernize" the monarchy. Her relationship with her staff was not like a reality show where every minute was seen by the world.

Then what was her plan? THey were looking at moving outside the RF from very ealry on, according to Harry he never blindsided the queen about his concerns. So presumably, Meghan found things about the monarchy that she was unhappy iwth, as a full time role.....

 

[Claire]

I stand corrected but I think that the majority of the stuff they wanted changed was in regard to the press and media. And yes - everyone can jump in here and say that they did get it changed. The royals are on social media now more then ever and in many ways are controlling the narrative of their stories.
but did they want all the royals to do this - or just themselves? it is unclear.

 

[Denville]

I stand corrected but I think that the majority of the stuff they wanted changed was in regard to the press and media. And yes - everyone can jump in here and say that they did get it changed. The royals are on social media now more then ever and in many ways are controlling the narrative of their stories.
but did they want all the royals to do this - or just themselves? it is unclear.

I dont think they really wanted change, except insofar as it suited themsleves..I think that Meghan did want to put out her stuff to sympathetic writers or on social media, so as to control what was said, when she realised how crticial the tabloids were.
WRT the other royals I think its a natural developmetn that they use Social media more now...

 

[camelot23ca]

The top bit is actually what a lot of RRs have said. That the staff and family were very aware that this was a great sign of "keeping up with the times" and were also acutely aware of Meghan being a liberal American and so made sure that she had as much help as possible and was introduced to Americans who were connected to the BRF and aristocracy so she had a group of likeminded acquaintances. They were hopeful but the last thing they wanted was basically what happened.

And all this was allegedly ignored by Meghan who was determined to do things her way and didn't want to fit in. They both believed their own press about being "trailblazers" for a new monarchy. Which is pretty much what FF said..

In retrospect I wonder if the staff and family weren’t a little too eager to make Meghan’s entry into royal life a success. Did they give in on small things at the start when they should have held firm? If there were concerns about how Meghan ( and Harry) were approaching royal life did the staff establish a precedent by staying quiet and making concessions to keep the modern trailblazers happy?

I’m not blaming the staff for what may have happened, but I have no doubt they would have gotten the message that the RF considered it important that the entry into royal life of the first biracial royal bride be smooth and successful. At least implicitly, and likely explicitly.

It might have been better for everyone if The Sussexes expectations were managed more aggressively right from the start.

 

[Osipi]

If my memory is actually functioning on only one cup of coffee, I seem to remember a time when Meghan was still pretty new to everything and she was admonished for hugging the staff as that just wasn't done. This tells me that perhaps she was appreciative of the assistance she did get from staff members.

As an American hugaholic, I've also had to learn that a lot of people don't want their personal space invaded at all. I've learned to ask first, hug later.

 

[Erin9]

Nothing really has been proven. Meghan never said she aimed to "modernize" the monarchy. Her relationship with her staff was not like a reality show where every minute was seen by the world.

I believe their website said they wanted a more “progressive” monarchy and they wanted to work with the Queen on that. Sounds similar to modernize to me.

 

[JoanHarry]

In retrospect I wonder if the staff and family weren’t a little too eager to make Meghan’s entry into royal life a success. Did they give in on small things at the start when they should have held firm? If there were concerns about how Meghan ( and Harry) were approaching royal life did the staff establish a precedent by staying quiet and making concessions to keep the modern trailblazers happy?

I’m not blaming the staff for what may have happened, but I have no doubt they would have gotten the message that the RF considered it important that the entry into royal life of the first biracial royal bride be smooth and successful. At least implicitly, and likely explicitly.

It might have been better for everyone if The Sussexes expectations were managed more aggressively right from the start.

I agree and noted at the time that exceptions were being made for her (e.g. Christmas at Sandringham as a fiancé) to ease her way in. They were advised to ease her in slowly and I am sure the family would have given them several years to start their family. Given her age and nationality, that was a wise offer. I wonder why they declined, but my guess is that Meghan wanted to keep her name current (as actors know they must and rarely take a few years off, as it negatively impacts their careers). It was just way too much, all at once (engagement, massive wedding, fallout with her family, changing countries, becoming a parent, fallout with his family, etc., all within a few years.

People who have issues with boundaries need them enforced early on, but I believe exceptions were made in large part due to her race, in order to avoid the appearance of racism to those unfamiliar with the working of the royal family (e.g. fiancés don’t get invited to Christmas).

 

[Denville]

I believe their website said they wanted a more “progressive” monarchy and they wanted to work with the Queen on that. Sounds similar to modernize to me.

Yeah but was it for real? I mean they probably wanted a few changes like them being more prominent, and being able to talk about politics if Meghan so chose.. but I think that the real reason for walking out was to do with their own self interest (Money in short) but when they had annoyed the RF by thier walk out they dressed it up as "more progressive monarchy"....

I agree and noted at the time that exceptions were being made for her (e.g. Christmas at Sandringham as a fiancé) to ease her way in. They were advised to ease her in slowly and I am sure the family would have given them several years to start their family. Given her age and nationality, that was a wise offer. I wonder why they declined, but my guess is that Meghan wanted to keep her name current (as actors know they must and rarely take a few years off, as it negatively impacts their careers). It was j

but that implies (actresses not feeling able to take time off) that they saw themselves as setting up a life outside the RF. If they were committed to royal life, they would know that they'd always be royal, they might not be quite top of the trees but they would always have a certain status and a job to do and a position...
but the fact was, I think that they wanted to have a separate life as - whatever, business people and because of that, they could not move into Royal life, slowly. They had to be out there being seen, getting their faces on TV, doing tours letting their American fans know who they were etc....

 

[Heavs]

Yeah but was it for real? I mean they probably wanted a few changes like them being more prominent, and being able to talk about politics if Meghan so chose.. but I think that the real reason for walking out was to do with their own self interest (Money in short) but when they had annoyed the RF by thier walk out they dressed it up as "more progressive monarchy"....

Who knows? They both given different versions of that in the same interview. At one point saying they were committed for the long haul but were treated so badly they had to leave and at other times talking about thinking about this "for two years" which was before their wedding.

We know they started talking to Quibi before Archie was born for example.

But Harry also appeared angry that someone dared suggest Meghan keep on working and not be a full time royal.

Maybe they hoped everyone would accept their "modern, progressive monarchy" plan they would be free to talk about anything that interested them including politics and they'd stay long term with the possibility of a HIHO plan as well.

I think their plans potentially always included a commercial element and "flee to a Commonwealth country and/or LA" was always a plan B (again with coming to Trooping to "top up" their royalty).

They seem to have been all over the place plan wise but I think they always wanted some form of royalty + money and progressive causes, somehow.

 

[Denville]

Who knows? They both given different versions of that in the same interview. At one point saying they were committed for the long haul but were treated so badly they had to leave and at other times talking about thinking about this "for two years" which was before their wedding.

We know they started talking to Quibi before Archie was born for example.

But Harry also appeared angry that someone dared suggest Meghan keep on working and not be a full time royal.

Maybe they hoped everyone would accept their "modern, progressive monarchy" plan they would be free to talk about anything that interested them including politics and they'd stay long term with the possibility of a HIHO plan as well.

I think their plans potentially always included a commercial element and "flee to a Commonwealth country and/or LA" was always a plan B (again with coming to Trooping to "top up" their royalty).

They seem to have been all over the place plan wise but I think they always wanted some form of royalty + money and progressive causes, somehow.

That's what I think, that there was always money hunting involved. I think that was more Meghan than Harry though. I think that while they were "on the left wing side" politically (at least Meg was) the money making was the big thing.. not doing good.
I think that Harry hasn't really any idea about money, which may be why he got aerated if he was really told that Meghan could/should go on acting. She probably didn't want to, and Harry saw it as an insult that HIS wife shold be expected to earn her own living, instead of being supported by Charles/RF/Taxpayer... Just like he saw it as some kind of insult that Charles wouldn't pay his security. I think while in theory he goes along with the "earning a living" he's not that comfortable with it.. and Meghan probalby has to get him on board with the idea.

 

[ACO]

Meghan's childhood book will be displayed in an exhibit with the Library of Congress this summer.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ed-freckles-unearthed-book-wrote-copyrighted/

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

The man was an elderly man with poor health and probably a bit reclusive. If they wanted him at the wedding, why not go and see the man during the courtship? They were flying around like crazy so another air trip would hardly have been that difficult for them. Sending him an airline ticket was hardly courteous.



I dont think her siblings were ever likley to act sensible or be friendly and I dont blame her for cutting off with them. But her father isn't so bad, and I think that she should have made a bit more effort with him....

Maybe not about the siblings. However, I think that Harry and the “suits” should have made a preemptive strike to charm the siblings; again, at one point Samantha wanted to be invited to the wedding. Oh course, who knows how Meghan presented those sibling relationships to Harry and the suits. IIRC Meghan said she’d not seen her sister in however many years and Samantha produced a picture proving that the no of years was incorrect.

 

[Denville]

Maybe not about the siblings. However, I think that Harry and the “suits” should have made a preemptive strike to charm the siblings; again, at one point Samantha wanted to be invited to the wedding. Oh course, who knows how Meghan presented those sibling relationships to Harry and the suits. IIRC Meghan said she’d not seen her sister in however many years and Samantha produced a picture proving that the no of years was incorrect.

Honestly, the Brother and sister seem to have always had it in for Meghan, and while they might turn up to the wedding and be OK, equally they mgiht do that and still go on attacking her on social media. But I think her father was not hostile to her. I think perhaps he is not that stable, he's not in good health, he's poor, and he didn't know how to deal with the press chasing him... He was used to living a fairly reclusive life and suddenly he's being hassled by pressmen. SO I think he was tempted by the money, and felt that they were going to make up stuff anyway, so why shouldn't he make a little money out of it? If Meg was already giving him some kind of money, that was wrong of him but if Not, I can understand how he felt. At first he didn't say anything disparaging and I think he did probably try to face going ot the UK.. but Meghan never came to see him, she and H just told him "not to speak to the press" and then send him a ticket for a plane.
And I think he lost his nerve.. could not face going and gave up the idea and then a row erupted between him and his daughter.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I think it was difficult for Thomas Markle. One minute, he was just leading his life quietly. The next, he had photographers following him every time he popped out for a loaf of bread or a pint of milk. How many of us would be able to cope with that?


Didn't Thomas say that Harry rang him to ask for Meghan's hand in marriage? All right, it's just a convention, and it's not as if it was actually up to him to make the decision, but the relationship was obviously close enough for Harry to consider that appropriate ... and yet they've never actually met.

Great points, Alison!

Denville, She and Harry expected him to go to the wedding. To be fair, he did not return Harry and Meghan's phone calls. This is the choice TOM made. The man could not be forced. I don't think it was the money he got from the press I think that it was that he chose to go to them instead of being interested in going to the wedding instead. There was none of this "drama" with her mother. Both parents should have gone.

Alison, Tom worked in TV with the media, he was not inexperienced with media. If I had been Tom, I would have chosen family over the media. He made his choice, he is a grownup and that's the path he wanted to go on.

I thought he had a heart attack and was under medical directive not to fly.

 

[Denville]

I thought he had a heart attack and was under medical directive not to fly.

I dont know if it is true. I think that was given as the explanation why he could not come.. but I dont know if he was in hospital. I'm inclined to think he did have some health troubles..
but later on, when he and Meg fell out, Meg didn't mention his name on Archie's birth announcement...