The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021


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[.....]
It's just really been the handwriting on the wall though that *something* isn't right in their lives and they're not a happy, secure in their own skins couple. We only can watch and see what happens next.
 
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DENVILLE

Well said!! You expressed it better than I could!!
 
angieuk said:

OSIPI

You always see the bigger picture. I wish I had half your common sense!
Could not agree more!

DENVILLE

No, you're right. Speaking truthfully; it won't work. The atmosphere between the couples will be like walking on egg-shells!
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Well I can't imagine anyone would think its likely that they'll go. Maybe in 5 years, while they may never quite trust Harry, they will be able to talk about non controversial stuff again.. but THey will hardly go to the USA for a visit with relatives they find so awkward. ANd I dont see Meghan coming to the UK much...

Osipi said:
:previous: In Meghan's defense though, it's very possible that if codependency *is* a factor, that she's totally in the dark about causing harm and does truly love him and believes that she's doing what is right for him. I'm only really guessing that this codependency thing could factor into Harry's mental health issues as I don't know Harry nor do I know Meghan.

I.
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A few years ago, when they were first married there was a lot of anti- Meghan stuff on the web.. by people who clearly hated her. But all the same, she has turned out to be so difficult, so ready to tell fibs, so erratic, and touchy, and Harry does look like he's agreeing with her but isn't all that happy..
[.....]
She seems more like a person who tries to use her charm to get people to do things for her...but gets very touchy if she doesn't get what she wants.
I think that Harry has been a bit of a lost soul for a while. If his girlfriends didn't want to marry him, if perhaps they were wary of his erratic ways and drinking and so on, he may have been feeling that he would never find a partner and I think that Meg picked up on that. And he has been so desperate that he believes he must do what Meg wants or lose her and he can't bear to lose her.
 
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Mbruno said:
Some tabloids (which are obviously not reliable) have spoken to Chelsy and Cressida recently and they claim that both girls said that royal life being not what they wanted was not the only reason why their relationship with Harry ended. Cressida in particular is alleged to have said Harry exhibited paranoid behavior about being chased by the press for example, when there was actually nobody around them.



Again, those are tabloid allegations, but given Harry's erratic behavior recently, it is not inconceivable that his former girlfriends may have figured out he had mental health issues. Besides, Harry himself admitted he was a heavy drinker and also used drugs. I don't know if that happened while he was with his girlfriends, but that can certainly have an effect on a relationship, can't it?
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This kind of lends some credence to an idea I've had for some time - that no matter who Harry had married - he'd have left the RF, largely due to his paranoia (not meaning that as a clinical diagnosis) about the press.

I think he's never really worked through the trauma of losing his mother, and he'll never be able to manage royal life as long as he has a wife and children he feels he needs to protect.

Meghan being targeted the way she has been made it easier, I think, for him to leave more quickly than he might have done had he married someone else, but I think the end result was inevitable.
 
I'm not sure it was inevitable. Someone more secure than Meghan might have had a beneficial/grounding effect on Harry. [.....]
 
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ruaudladoube said:
Th

I think he's never really worked through the trauma of losing his mother, and he'll never be able to manage royal life as long as he has a wife and children he feels he needs to protect.

Meghan being targeted the way she has been made it easier, I think, for him to leave more quickly than he might have done had he married someone else, but I think the end result was inevitable.
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You could be right, but he has chosen to leave the RF for LA, which is a city full of press, cameras, security issues and so on... is it a good place for a man who is scared that something bad will happen to his wife and children? Would he not have been safter in a royal property in hte UK, but leading a private life?
 
To the best of our knowledge, no one on this forum is personally acquainted with the Sussexes, so let's steer clear of any armchair diagnoses. There's plenty to discuss and debate without playing psychiatrist. Any further posts along those lines will be removed.
 
Denville said:
The man is well into his 70s. What career is he going to find at that age? He is in poor health and clelary has money problems. If he makes a litlte money through talking to journalists, how does it differ except in terms of the money from what Meghan and H are doing?
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He is not just "talking" to them he is putting down his own child publicly and getting paid for it. This has been going on for Three years now. A lot of people have money troubles but find other ways of earning money. Does he have a pension? Social Security? He probably is eligible for the relief payments due to COVID. I know those in TV production have a good union and pension. He was said to have lost a lot of his lottery money did he lose all the rest of the money in shaky ventures? whatever Meghan and harry do it does not excuse Thomas Markle's behavior which has been going on for three years. He can't keep on putting down his daughter indefinitely the media would move on sooner rather than later. there are other ways to earn a living For someone in poor health, he seems to have a lot of energy to appear on TV and talk to the media. Normal parents IMO would not go and put down their children to make money, they would do anything but... At this point, Dr. Phil may not want him on his show. What Meghan and Harry do, does not excuse Thomas behavior he is taking the Low Road here.
 
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My take is that Meghan and Harry met when they were both at a crossroads: He was post-Army, but no family, no career path. She was a C-list actress pushing 40, trying to leverage her tiny fame into a sustainable media/lifestyle/philanthropic brand.

For Harry, she represented instant family, exciting new philanthropic directions, and a way to rebel within the family.

A win-win for both. Except, it didn't work out, so now they have to tear down everything in order to validate their positions.
 
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Denville said:
The man is well into his 70s. What career is he going to find at that age? He is in poor health and clelary has money problems. If he makes a litlte money through talking to journalists, how does it differ except in terms of the money from what Meghan and H are doing?
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It doesn't make any difference Denville. It doesn't matter if it's happening in Rosarito Beach, Baja California or in Montecito, California. Three people: Thomas, Harry and Meghan are doing the exact same thing which is discussing close family members in a negative fashion and claiming how badly they've been treated. We could add Tom Jr. and Samantha in there as well. It gains some media coverage and ultimately the ones pointing fingers lose respect.



I have a feeling that much like Charles and Diana did with the Dimbley and Panorama Interviews that they'll come to regret what they've done.
 
Prinsara said:
I'm not sure it was inevitable. Someone more secure than Meghan might have had a beneficial/grounding effect on Harry. [.....]
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When Meghan and Harry first decided to leave the UK I thought that, while Meghan didn’t take Harry anywhere he didn’t want to go, things might have been different if he had in fact married someone more secure and grounded.

After everything we’ve heard from Harry these last few months I’ve kind of changed my mind. I think on some level Harry must have known there was a good chance Meghan wouldn’t adapt to royal life in the UK and this was part of what attracted him to her. I suspect he wouldn’t have continued to date a woman who didn’t agree with him that the press attention was intolerable, or who tried to offer some perspective when he complained about his life or his family. The fact that Meghan couldn’t cope with royal life validated Harry’s own feelings about life in the BRF, and gave him the excuse he needed to leave that life behind.

The Sussexes set themselves up for failure in so many obvious ways, starting with the fact that Meghan didn’t live in the UK prior to getting married. Their actions never seemed to be those of a couple who were really, truly trying to make their situation work, and with Harry’s more recent comments I have to wonder if he was determined to see trouble and insurmountable obstacles right from the start.
 
Meghan lived in the UK, beginning just prior to the engagement in November 2017, until the couple married in May 2018. Until the November she was working on Suits. During her engagement to Harry Meghan undertook quite a few official engagements, including in Scotland and Wales, as well as in different parts of England.
 
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Sandy345 said:
I don't think it wise of siblings to give unwanted advice. How is it known how "wise" they were? He should have stayed out of it. Harry never apparently "advised" him about Kate and welcomed Kate to the family. I think William and Harry have had their differences over the years and it was not always clear sailing. He may not have said it in a "kind" way, William is not perfect himself. Robert Lacey wrote about the brothers and discovered that William went to Charles Spencer to help "persuade" Harry to "slow down." I don't think that was a wise thing for William to do. He is not head of the household but a brother two years older. I disagree that the words were "wise" or "kind." Harry knows his brother very well and probably saw the nuances of the "advice" better than anybody. And again, Harry was in his thirties not a 19 year old planning to elope with his girlfriend. He and Meghan DID date for two years. It is never a good idea for a brother to try to come between a couple with unwanted advice.
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I think that the behavior that Harry and Meghan have exhibited over the past year proves that William's advice was some of the wisest Harry ever received. William giving Harry advice is not like the average person giving advice to a sibling. Harry is a member of the Royal Family and at that time, it was believed, was planning on being a full time working member. The suitability of a future spouse for that job is very important. As a future king, William was right to be concerned because it would have been him for whom Harry and his wife were working some years down the road. The sad thing to me is that Harry and Meghan could have been such an asset to the Royal Family if they had been a little less concerned about themselves and more focused on the nation that Harry was born to serve. If they could not do that, then there was a much quieter, more dignified way of quitting as full time working royals than the way they chose to do it.
 
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We don’t know that William ever said anything to Harry about how fast his romance with Meghan was progressing. All we ever heard about it originally were tabloid reports that it happened when the Press were trying to explain coldness between the two couples early on.

And if William did say it, we don’t know in what context. If it was that it was doubting that the relationship would last long term, then it’s worth pointing out that about four years later it’s going strong. Three years of happy marriage, two children and a lovely home together in California.

(If a sibling had said that to me though, when I was over thirty, I would have told him to mind his own business and his own relationships!)
 
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camelot23ca said:
When Meghan and Harry first decided to leave the UK I thought that, while Meghan didn’t take Harry anywhere he didn’t want to go, things might have been different if he had in fact married someone more secure and grounded.

After everything we’ve heard from Harry these last few months I’ve kind of changed my mind. I think on some level Harry must have known there was a good chance Meghan wouldn’t adapt to royal life in the UK and this was part of what attracted him to her. I suspect he wouldn’t have continued to date a woman who didn’t agree with him that the press attention was intolerable, or who tried to offer some perspective when he complained about his life or his family. The fact that Meghan couldn’t cope with royal life validated Harry’s own feelings about life in the BRF, and gave him the excuse he needed to leave that life behind.

The Sussexes set themselves up for failure in so many obvious ways, starting with the fact that Meghan didn’t live in the UK prior to getting married. Their actions never seemed to be those of a couple who were really, truly trying to make their situation work, and with Harry’s more recent comments I have to wonder if he was determined to see trouble and insurmountable obstacles right from the start.
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These are great points - I agree!
 
Denville said:
I think that is is possible that Meghan could see how "lost" Harry was, and has managed to manipulate him... but if that's the case, Its not gong to end well. Perhaps one day he'll wake up and find that he is fed up with LA and he feels like he was pushed into going there etc.. and he'll want to get out.. (and there will probably be a lot of "I wasn't in my right mind when i said all those things, please forgive me"...). Or he will come under the influence of someone else (not necessarily a woman, some guru or adviser) who will give him another point of view, perhaps persuade him that he was wrong to leave Royal life.... and it will all end in tears.
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Duke and duchesse of Windsor syndrome

kalnel said:
My take is that Meghan and Harry met when they were both at a crossroads: He was post-Army, but no family, no career path. She was a C-list actress pushing 40, trying to leverage her tiny fame into a sustainable media/lifestyle/philanthropic brand.

For Harry, she represented instant family, exciting new philanthropic directions, and a way to rebel within the family.

For her, he was a rich and famous husband, a passport to almost anyone in the world, and a chance to "remake" and "fix" the royals in her own image. (Never mind that they probably don't consider themselves "broken.")

A win-win for both. Except, it didn't work out, so now they have to tear down everything in order to validate their positions.
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That is a good summation
 
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camelot23ca said:
When Meghan and Harry first decided to leave the UK I thought that, while Meghan didn’t take Harry anywhere he didn’t want to go, things might have been different if he had in fact married someone more secure and grounded.

After everything we’ve heard from Harry these last few months I’ve kind of changed my mind. I think on some level Harry must have known there was a good chance Meghan wouldn’t adapt to royal life in the UK and this was part of what attracted him to her. I suspect he wouldn’t have continued to date a woman who didn’t agree with him that the press attention was intolerable, or who tried to offer some perspective when he complained about his life or his family. The fact that Meghan couldn’t cope with royal life validated Harry’s own feelings about life in the BRF, and gave him the excuse he needed to leave that life behind.

The Sussexes set themselves up for failure in so many obvious ways, starting with the fact that Meghan didn’t live in the UK prior to getting married. Their actions never seemed to be those of a couple who were really, truly trying to make their situation work, and with Harry’s more recent comments I have to wonder if he was determined to see trouble and insurmountable obstacles right from the start.
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Very much Duke and Duchess of Windsor syndrome. He didn't want to be there; she provided the way out.

However, it's still possible that had he married a more contented and calming person, he might have followed that lead instead, and stayed.
 
kalnel said:
My take is that Meghan and Harry met when they were both at a crossroads: He was post-Army, but no family, no career path. She was a C-list actress pushing 40, trying to leverage her tiny fame into a sustainable media/lifestyle/philanthropic brand.

For Harry, she represented instant family, exciting new philanthropic directions, and a way to rebel within the family.

For her, he was a rich and famous husband, a passport to almost anyone in the world, and a chance to "remake" and "fix" the royals in her own image. (Never mind that they probably don't consider themselves "broken.")

A win-win for both. Except, it didn't work out, so now they have to tear down everything in order to validate their positions.
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I'm tired of reading comments that allude to Meghan being a scheming loser who snagged Harry in order to achieve greatness. Meghan has been the target of vile racist attacks and nasty smears from the moment the relationship was announced. Has anyone ever considered the fact that Meghan married Harry because she loves him? It is a possibility. :glare::
 
SplendaLover said:
I'm tired of reading comments that allude to Meghan being a scheming loser who snagged Harry in order to achieve greatness. Meghan has been the target of vile racist attacks and nasty smears from the moment the relationship was announced. Has anyone ever considered the fact that Meghan married Harry because she loves him? It is a possibility. :glare::
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If you were to read the many congratulatory posts written here when the couple's engagement was announced in 2017, yes you would see evidence that the majority of posters believed that Meghan truly loves Harry.


Here's the engagement thread.
https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...d-meghan-markle-november-27-2017-a-43821.html



IMHO it's only been in the past 18 months to 2 years that there has been a shift in thinking.
 
Sandy345 said:
He is not just "talking" to them he is putting down his own child publicly and getting paid for it. This has been going on for Three years now. A lot of people have money troubles but find other ways of earning money. Does he have a pension? Social Security? He probably is eligible for the relief payments due to COVID. I know those in TV production have a good union and pension. He was said to have lost a lot of his lottery money did he lose all the rest of the money in shaky ventures? whatever Meghan and harry do it does not excuse Thomas Markle's behavior which has been going on for three years. He can't keep on putting down his daughter indefinitely the media would move on sooner rather than later. there are other ways to earn a living For someone in poor health, he seems to have a lot of energy to appear on TV and talk to the media. Normal parents IMO would not go and put down their children to make money, they would do anything but... At this point, Dr. Phil may not want him on his show. What Meghan and Harry do, does not excuse Thomas behavior he is taking the Low Road here.
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In fairness, whilst I do not in any way condone Thomas Markle speaking with the press for a payment, his actions seem very similar to Meghan and Harry's. Deliberately "putting down his own" family "publicly and getting paid for it", failing to move on...... you get the idea.
 
SplendaLover said:
I'm tired of reading comments that allude to Meghan being a scheming loser who snagged Harry in order to achieve greatness. Meghan has been the target of vile racist attacks and nasty smears from the moment the relationship was announced. Has anyone ever considered the fact that Meghan married Harry because she loves him? It is a possibility. :glare::
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People who marry in their mid-30s don't usually marry solely for love, because they've long since figured out that ignoring all other considerations just doesn't work all that well in reality. That's particularly true if, like both Meghan and Harry, they've had other long-term relationships and/or marriages. It may be true that she loved him when she married him, but that doesn't mean it can't simultaneously be true that she wouldn't have married him - or even gotten involved with him - had he merely been Harry Mountbatten. Whatever her reasons may have been for marrying Harry, going out of one's way to cause needless and unceasing drama with one's in-laws isn't the act of someone who sincerely and unselfishly loves their spouse....
 
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And Charles is right, if he didn't do so UK would get dozen of princes after a few generations. At the end the title would mean nothing.
 
Yes, I believe this is the way things are going.

I think Prince William's thinking is the same as Charles.

Prince Louie and Princess Charlotte of Cambridge future children will not have royal titles.

Prince George of Cambridge
Future children; male or female, will all be titled Prince or Princess.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...began-row-bullying-claims-against-Meghan.html

Harry appoints his own news reporter for 1st July, Diana Memorial.
 
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rominet09 said:
And Charles is right, if he didn't do so UK would get dozen of princes after a few generations. At the end the title would mean nothing.
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There wouldnt be that many. Most royals dont have more than 2 or 3 children.. and some of them will be girls. And the rule since 1917 has been that only the grandchildren in the male line of the monarch have HRH.. so there are not that many around. however since the trend is to restrict the title to fewer royals, its likely That Charles has plans to restrict it to the children of the heir, and not anyone else. He wont take it away from anyone who has it already but he may not want Louis' children to have it nor Harrys... as boht are younger sons.
 
ACO said:
I mean we already knew this. Meghan said they wanted to change it before Archie was born…

Hardly an exclusive. Lol
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It has long been thought that Charles like other European monarchs wants to slim don the number of working royals and royals with HRH so that the public wont see the RF as a huge bunch of people who live at the public expense and who go around worrying about who has HRH or not. But Meghan as I recall implied that the reason Ch would change it was because of Archie's racial origins. (and if this is getting OT and back into the Megahn arguments, I apologise and will delete).
 
I agree with those who said the current plan is probably for only George's children to be titled. The concerns about slimming down the monarchy are valid, but I think proactively limiting it to only one person and their offspring is inviting problems. What if George can't have biological children, or marries a woman who can't, or just doesn't want to? What if he has three children, but two of them decide to do what Harry did but in a better way, pursuing their own careers or just living a quiet life in the country without ever being a working royal? Whether this plan is workable will depend on the life choices of the children and grandchildren of someone who's just a child himself.
 
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