The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020

[Missjersey]

Because there isn't a SINGLE aspect of the behaviour of this couple, in the last week, that inspires any confidence in their 'common sense'..

Cutthroat and underhanded come to mind..

So this situation that has come up erases every good thing they've done. Mistakes or errors not allowed, if you make one you are treated like you have committed the most henious crime and should be banished from the family and society.

LaRae

For me Pranter, this wasn’t a mistake they made, this was deliberate.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

As far as Anne’s children being private individuals, it was normal for a princess’s children. No different than Princess Margaret, the Queen's sister or Princess Mary, the Queen’s aunt.

Yes, I'm aware. I was referring more to when Mark Phillips refused his earldom when I mentioned the children being private people. Perhaps I should've been more clear.

 

[Waika]

Also, someone has to keep track of residuals, from whatever work she did before she got married. For example, an actor makes a commercial for a local business, every time that commercial airs the actor receives money. For 75 years after she dies, her heirs will get residuals, it might not be much.



There are agents who handle real estate, they take care of the property, collect rent, and vet tenants for a fee. We don't know what investments she has. Why would anyone cash in all their investments just because they are getting married, you move some and let the rest generate income.

 

[Missjersey]

Canada on the spot. The Queen and the Government on the spot. The charities and patronages in limbo. These two have created quite a mess and should be told NO to all their demands. They have proven that they are not responsible
enough or trustworthy to move forward with any such endeavor as members of the BRF. They really need to be under the control of the BRF.

My take for this entire fiasco is financial freedom to make money and absolutely no oversight from anyone.

 

[King of the Jungle]

So this situation that has come up erases every good thing they've done. Mistakes or errors not allowed, if you make one you are treated like you have committed the most henious crime and should be banished from the family and society.

Gotcha. I hope no one has ever applied this to anyone here when they have not done things exactly right. Of course your mistakes aren't going to be seen by millions either.



LaRae

To the contrary, I've observed Harry's silly party behaviour being completely forgiven and Meghan's family dramas being put aside by the general public who have given them support. Harry and Meghan came across as vibrant, fun and caring. Australia loved hosting them.
The general public did not react necessarily like the nasty media. Meghan and Harry should have ignored bad press, instead taken a lead from the general public. It is such a shame that the growing trust in this lovely couple has been damaged by their own self banishing.
Their family would have bent over backwards to tweek a more enjoyable workload, I suspect. Their family did not abandon them, nor did the public. That's why there is such an outcry. And why people are disappointed that they went alone without adequate consultation.
People and organisations invested in Harry and Meghan and they are hurt.
There will always be gutter press but royals have had a history mostly ignoring it and getting on with something positive.
I hope that it won't take too much time before something productive comes of this.

 

[Erin9]

The press keep saying that M&H are angry at the RF. If that were the case, then why do they want to be part time?

Well- we don’t know how they really feel. That’s the press speculating.

But-I’m just picturing the backlash if that had been the announcement. It would look so bad to just quit.

This would look mild imo. Things might be less complicated than this one foot in and one foot out, but I think there would be more anger.

 

[hel]

Also, someone has to keep track of residuals, from whatever work she did before she got married. For example, an actor makes a commercial for a local business, every time that commercial airs the actor receives money. For 75 years after she dies, her heirs will get residuals, it might not be much.



There are agents who handle real estate, they take care of the property, collect rent, and vet tenants for a fee. We don't know what investments she has. Why would anyone cash in all their investments just because they are getting married, you move some and let the rest generate income.

The named agent, Nick Collins of The Gersh Agency, does not handle property management. He's a licensed talent agent, in an industry that is regulated by the California Talent Agencies Act; state law sets out his scope of work, including "procuring, offering, promising, or attempting to procure employment or engagements for an artist'

I suspect that her business manager or, more likely, attorney is the person engaged in ensuring that her existing residuals continue to flow and are properly invested, because they involve existing contracts, not the procuring or negotiation of new ones.

I don't honestly see a reason for keeping an agent, even for screening acting job offers; just don't give anyone your new phone number if you don't want any acting pitches.

 

[hel]

The Angus Reid Institute conducted an online survey from January 13 – 14, 2020 among a representative randomized sample of 1,154 Canadian adults who are members of Angus Reid Forum. It has a margin of error of +/- 3 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

Paying for Harry and Meghan is.. not popular.

Royal Tab: Vast majority don’t want to pay costs associated with the Sussexes’ move to Canada - Angus Reid Institute

 

[Ista]

The Angus Reid Institute conducted an online survey from January 13 – 14, 2020 among a representative randomized sample of 1,154 Canadian adults who are members of Angus Reid Forum. It has a margin of error of +/- 3 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

Paying for Harry and Meghan is.. not popular.

Royal Tab: Vast majority don’t want to pay costs associated with the Sussexes’ move to Canada - Angus Reid Institute

How reliable or reputable is the Angus Reid Institute as a source for opinion polls? I apologize, I'm not familiar with them.

Edited to add:

Because that's a very clear "No, thanks" result.

 

[Betsypaige]

Canada on the spot. The Queen and the Government on the spot. The charities and patronages in limbo. These two have created quite a mess and should be told NO to all their demands. They have proven that they are not responsible
enough or trustworthy to move forward with any such endeavor as members of the BRF. They really need to be under the control of the BRF.

I read about the awkwardness of their patronages earlier - such a shame; it they really blindsided everyone didn’t they, sigh. Everyone deserves the chance to be happy, but it’s just not necessary to be a bull in a china shop while trying to obtain it. Harry and Meghan couldn’t have handled this worse if they tried. I hope that they end up having to give as much as they get

 

[Lady Marlboro]

Its not really a big deal. A lot of companies incorporate in Delaware because it has some corporate advantages that others don't

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/287677

Incorporating in Delaware is nothing new. I used to live there and I remember my parents talking about buildings that were nothing but tiny offices for corporations back in the 1960s. I did some checking - there is one office building in Wilmington that this the legal address for 285,000 companies - it is a drop box. Some of the companies at this address - Apple, Bank of America, Berkshire Hathaway, Coke, Ford, GE, Google, Walmart. In 2012 more than half of the publicly traded companies in the US and 64% of the Fortune 500 companies were incorporated in Delaware. There are more companies incorporated in Delaware than the State has citizens. I am so used to it that I find it odd when a corporation is incorporated some where else.

 

[Osipi]

The more I think about it on the "moving to Canada" angle, the more it starts to appear to me as perhaps something not as bad as we're making it out to be? Just thoughts here.

Time wise, is it that much different actually than how the Queen, herself, does her down time and where she lives? If we figure (approximately) two months downtime away at Balmoral and a month and a half at Sandringham at the holidays during the winter and then another week or so downtime at Windsor Castle around Easter, that's a substantial chuck of time away living elsewhere besides BP and "the shop".

Harry and Meghan have proposed to be able to split their time between the UK and Canada. No where was it stated that Canada would be for 6 months straight. Is it possible that a residence in Canada would be used for their downtime respites as the Queen uses Balmoral to "get away from it all"? Add up the Queen's breaks away and that's a considerable amount of time also.

I get that the security and the costs of the security is a big issue and my thought on that is that if they're on their private time at a Canadian residence, it shouldn't be up to the Canadian government to provide around the clock security for the couple. I kind of like the idea presented about hiring their own burly ex-hockey players. I'm sure they'll work all that out but just presenting the thought that perhaps a straight shot of living half the year in Canada isn't the gist of "splitting their time".

I do wish clarification on a whole lot of things were forthcoming on all of this. Hurry up and wait isn't the most prominent feature of my character makeup and it seems everyone is sitting on pins and needles and the edges of their seats wanting to know exactly what is going on here. I'm just trying to remain fair and balanced through all this.

 

[Sionevar]

Harry and Meghan have proposed to be able to split their time between the UK and Canada. No where was it stated that Canada would be for 6 months straight. Is it possible that a residence in Canada would be used for their downtime respites as the Queen uses Balmoral to "get away from it all"? Add up the Queen's breaks away and that's a considerable amount of time also.

They'd probably want to avoid Canada completely in December, January and February. Victoria and Vancouver have milder winters than other Canadian cities, but even those places are being pummeled by Mother Nature this week ?

The big downside of not doing 6 months in Canada then 6 months in the UK, but going for shorter, more frequent jaunts, is the amount of travel involved. They'd earn a lot of Air Miles, that's for sure! And they wouldn't have the best carbon footprint in the world, even if they flew commercial.

Also, I would be wary of doing a direct comparison with the Queen. I believe she still works through red box papers, even when she is at Balmoral or Sandringham. Plus, she's 93 years old, and has been doing the Job for almost 70 years. IMHO, she's entitled to more downtime than a couple in their thirties who don't have obligations as Head of State.

 

[hel]

How reliable or reputable is the Angus Reid Institute as a source for opinion polls? I apologize, I'm not familiar with them.

Edited to add:

Because that's a very clear "No, thanks" result.

It is considered to be reputable. In 2017, it was the leader when Canadians were asked what their most respected polling org was:

https://surveys.google.com/reporting/survey?hl=en-US&survey=lmwiiiqvhqajveqrzfeffd3gfu

 

[Osipi]

They'd probably want to avoid Canada completely in December, January and February. Victoria and Vancouver have milder winters than other Canadian cities, but even those places are being pummeled by Mother Nature this week ?

The big downside of not doing 6 months in Canada then 6 months in the UK, but going for shorter, more frequent jaunts, is the amount of travel involved. They'd earn a lot of Air Miles, that's for sure! And they wouldn't have the best carbon footprint in the world, even if they flew commercial.

Also, I would be wary of doing a direct comparison with the Queen. I believe she still works through red box papers, even when she is at Balmoral or Sandringham. Plus, she's 93 years old, and has been doing the Job for almost 70 years. IMHO, she's entitled to more downtime than a couple in their thirties who don't have obligations as Head of State.

Oh I definitely agree with you that the Queen deserves all the down time she wants at any time she wants now. Even Charles is at the age where a lot of us (even me and I'm a few years younger than Charles) are happily retired and enjoying the golden years of retirement. The comparison is with what the Queen has done throughout her reign with Balmoral/Sandringham/Windsor Castle.

No matter what we humans do and how aware we are of carbon footprints we cause, we're never going to totally eliminate them. Its just not possible. What is possible though is to adjust and amend how things are going into the future and this is what I think Harry and Meghan's aims are. To enact a change that works better for them and for everyone around them and I'm sincerely hoping they come to a workable solution all the way around.

I do definitely agree that the website launched with its plans really wasn't any way to go about it because it just threw a whole lot of crapola into the fan and where's there's crapola, its going to attract flies buzzing about. We need clarification on so many things as so much is vague and open for speculation.

 

[Purrs]

How reliable or reputable is the Angus Reid Institute as a source for opinion polls? I apologize, I'm not familiar with them.

Edited to add:

Because that's a very clear "No, thanks" result.

Very reputable. It's one of the 2 major pollsters in Canada - the other is Decima Research.

 

[Sionevar]

No matter what we humans do and how aware we are of carbon footprints we cause, we're never going to totally eliminate them. Its just not possible. What is possible though is to adjust and amend how things are going into the future and this is what I think Harry and Meghan's aims are. To enact a change that works better for them and for everyone around them and I'm sincerely hoping they come to a workable solution all the way around.

Agreed on the carbon footprint thing, and I personally have no problem with Harry and Meghan travelling more than would be considered 'normal', if it helps to bring them peace and happiness, as long as they are honest about how that would be received. If they rack up Air Miles on one side, but take on patronage of environmental charities and climate change issues on the other, it might not look terribly good...

 

[Osipi]

Still, with the environment and climate change issues, there's so much more to it than just the carbon footprints created by air travel so it wouldn't necessarily mean that they're not practicing what they preach.

No issue should be so demanding on its solutions that human beings find themselves forced to be afraid to make changes in their everyday lives and how they go about making it a prosperous and fruitful one. Just as, for me, right now, accepting a cold drink from McD's that has a one use plastic straw isn't going to prevent me from ordering that drink. In time, a solution may be found that McD no longer uses those plastic straws but until then.....

 

[duchessrachel]

Well this is interesting.....Makes you wonder why the Sussex's didn't do their due diligence before making this disastrous move.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...-cant-live-in/

The link seems to be broken.
ETA: I see that a working one was posted farther down. I'm sorry.

Of curse everyone is different, but William being older must have something to do with it..l

Yes, heir difference in ages when Diana died was significant.

The last couple of pages in this thread eloquently portray just how many people/countries/organisations are simply assumed to be 'on board' with the impulsive wishlist of this astoundingly entitled pair -

Canada 'fall into line' ! BRF 'acquiesce to our every whim' ! Politicians, Police forces, Immigration Authorities 'do as WE want' !



As with out of control children SOMEONE needs to say NO !

Exactly! I have been thinking more about this situation and I think the H&M's behavior during this "transition period" will determine exactly what function within the family they will have beyond the transition.

 

[caethi]

They'd probably want to avoid Canada completely in December, January and February. Victoria and Vancouver have milder winters than other Canadian cities, but even those places are being pummeled by Mother Nature this week ?

Not for a minute do I think they will stay in Canada for any length of time-a few years at most. Vancouver Island is beautiful, and west coast weather is relatively benign, (there are earthquakes, however) but I think they will head for the US when it is financially and personally expedient.

 

[evolvingdoors]

Huh?!
The ladies at Meghan Mirror have admitted to having a mutual friend with Jessica, and the speed at which the ladies tended to post items Meghan wore made many wonder if they were being leaked info from Jessica and Meghan and if this is a way for them to make money on the side.(this is of course just a theory based on the MMirror ladies own words and actions)

To our Canadian friends, is that shelter well known in Vancouver and outside, or is it a small obscure one that unless someone tells you about it you are unlikely to know it exists?


Edit: I can’t seem to be able to add the twitter post I referenced above.
It’s within a post Rebecca English had about the shelter visit by Neghan.

 

[DuchessMia]

It would be easier to settle in the US since Meghan retained her citizenship. They can remain in Canada on a visitor visa for up to 6 months. I doubt it’ll take that long to establish the plan going forward. The execution may be slowed due to security and taxation issues across nations.

 

[Claire]

Some people are referring to the wessexes when mentioning establishing other work and career routes. I don’t recall them ever doing so. I know Sophie carried out her PR work for a while. Is there anything else? What kind of activity did they try to do and why didn’t it work out? That may be the precedent we need to think about in light of this situation.

Edward had a production company and did some talking engagements and Sophie just has the PR company. Most of Edward shows were historical documents, which is where the trading in on the name comes from as they were royalty related and some Hallmark & Canadian TV stuff. Sophie's PR company didn't really have high profile companies - some charities and local companies.
They did do engagements mostly DOE for Edward and one foreign trip to Canada after they were married. There office was an extension of the Duke of Edinburgh and it was mostly engagement that Philip couldn't or didn't want to attend. Small and off radar engagement - nothing that merit media coverage. How many they did - I don't even know if they were on the court circular. Edward's engagement from when he was 17 till about 25 were not, so it is possible.
It didn't work out as they were in an environment where everything they did seemed like they were taken advantage of their position and titles. They made some really bad decisions - like Edward's position on making royal documentaries and making documentaries on his own family. There was complaints about his company filming at St Andrews even. Ultimately even their staff and partners were trading on their slight royal connection . Sophie partner was caught doing so and hinting that he could procure sexual partners for clients and this Sophie was also caught talk indiscreetly about the royal family and other high profile people. It just couldn't work any further and they knew it. Personally I fell that they were always going to stop eventually as Edward was taking on more and more from the Duke of Edinburgh and when it was announced that he would take on the title. Seemed inevitable that they would at the Queen Mother's death became working royals - but I might be completely wrong. One of Edward's partners also hinted at such in the Ingrid Seward biography, the Edward was never fully committed as he need that eventually he would be returning to the firm.

Why it doesn't really confirm to Harry and Meghan's situation? Not really. Edward and Sophie never attempt anything about living outside the England. They don't have the pull and draw to ever overshadow the current Queen or the future monarchs. They didn't attempt anything glamourous. Although Edward fronted some of his documentaries - we wasn't attempting to be a brand. If that is indeed what Meghan and Harry intend doing. Yes Edward and Sophie have some famous friends but they are only famous inside the UK or are rich when compared to me, and these friends are more acquaintances than in their inner circle. Andrew Lloyd Webber was Edward's employer not his current best baddie and you cannot compare him with Oprah. Same with Url Szweriez (certain I spell incorrect) - millionaire yes - but nothing compared to H & M friend's riches. Not even in the same league. Harry will one day be the son of the monarch and then the only brother of the next king. Edward was always going to be the fourth son of the monarchy and the third sibling of the next monarch.

 

[rmay286]

To our Canadian friends, is that shelter well known in Vancouver and outside, or is it a small obscure one that unless someone tells you about it you are unlikely to know it exists?

I haven't heard of that specific shelter, but Vancouver's Downtown Eastside is known for being one of the most troubled and disadvantaged areas in Canada.

 

[yvr girl]

Huh?!
The ladies at Meghan Mirror have admitted to having a mutual friend with Jessica, and the speed at which the ladies tended to post items Meghan wore made many wonder if they were being leaked info from Jessica and Meghan and if this is a way for them to make money on the side.(this is of course just a theory based on the MMirror ladies own words and actions)

To our Canadian friends, is that shelter well known in Vancouver and outside, or is it a small obscure one that unless someone tells you about it you are unlikely to know it exists?


Edit: I can’t seem to be able to add the twitter post I referenced above.
It’s within a post Rebecca English had about the shelter visit by Neghan.

I live in Vancouver and the Women's Centre is long established. The Downtown East Side (DTES) neighbourhood is probably the most notorious one in the country. It's just a few blocks from a tourist area. It shocks people who stumble upon it. It's common to see people ODing on the street. The juxtaposition of such desperation near million dollar+ condos is a black mark for our city.

 

[Alison H]

I speak of this as a sports fan because I’ve seen too many players be affected by the media, whether what’s written about them is good or bad.

Very well said! In 1998, when David Beckham got sent off during the World Cup and England were knocked out, the press crucified him - there were even pictures of people hanging effigies of him from trees. It was horrific: I was very upset, so I don't know how he must have felt! And there've been so many other stories, especially when players are alleged to have cheated on their partners. It's a nasty part of being famous, and, as you say, people have to try to ignore it.



Someone asked about Sophie - she was alleged to be using her royal status and royal contacts to boost her PR business, and one of the newspapers played a nasty trick on her in which a fake client recorded some of what she'd said, and she packed it in after that. Again, the press can be horrible to everyone - it is not personal to Meghan. It was a shame for Sophie - it was as if she couldn't win whatever she did.



ETA - sorry, I've messed the quote marks up there!

 

[Skippy]

Perhaps she should have stayed in the US and gotten into politics instead. They all like their voices to be heard

Politics is only for a couple of years - there is an end to that run. Would that be enough for M?

When you're into the royal family, you're supposed to be in for life. Ka-ching!

Only this is not the ka-ching expected in any royal family.

 

[wyevale]

Politics is only for a couple of years - there is an end to that run. Would that be enough for M?

When you're into the royal family, you're supposed to be in for life. Ka-ching!

Only this is not the ka-ching expected in any royal family.

*Short termism* seems to be characteristic of 'M'...

 

[RoyalNight]

Even if a royal didn't leak it, a courtier could have. I mean that happens all the time in institutions and there BRF has a history of that sort of thing happening.

Its just messy all around. There is clearly a big lack of trust between all the royal houses in the BRF and each other and all the staffs. Not sustainable in the long term at all.



Ego and such don't always common sense make. I am not saying William and Kate wanted them out but we also have no idea what went down or if cool heads have led in the recent past. Again, royal brother fighting and back cutting is basically the norm looking at history.

People will believe the worst of whichever royal they dislike or doubt and the best of the ones they do like. IMO the truth is probs more in the middle.

Politics is only for a couple of years - there is an end to that run. Would that be enough for M?

When you're into the royal family, you're supposed to be in for life. Ka-ching!

Only this is not the ka-ching expected in any royal family.

I think Canada was chosen to "soften the blow" as it's a Commonwealth country. US is probably the goal. I can imagine the Sussexes will travel to US for most of their "business" ventures.

 

[Osipi]

Are we absolutely and positively 100% sure that all this means that H&M are going into business for themselves for personal profit? The speculations here seem to be formed as if its 100% fact and certainty that the Sussexes are going to be showing up on our late night infomercials selling Sussex Royal Pillows and Sheets (act now before they're all gone) kind of thing.

I just can't help but think that if it was their goal to go into business for themselves and sell wares to the public for profit, do talk show rounds, come out with a line of clothing designs, do a stint on Survivor or Temptation Island and pretty much put themselves on top of the heap as "celebrities" they would have announced they were walking away totally from the "Firm", decide not to open the Sussex Royal Foundation at all as charity work doesn't put money in their pockets as its supposed to highlight causes and not their ever glowing royal selves, move to Canada (or even the US) permanently and sell T-shirts with them giving the Bronx cheer as souvenir t-shirts (buy one and get the second one free) immortalizing the date they gave their royal lives the heave ho.

I keep reminding myself that whatever happens, it will be the result of communication, working with the Queen, Charles and the "Firm" and come to an agreement that works for all sides and clarifies *exactly* what their plan is and how they're going to implement it.

I think we may really be surprised. Then again, what do I know? Probably as much as anyone else does at this time though?