"Spare" memoir by the Duke of Sussex (2023)

[kimebear]

]

But doesn't that proof that LPs being issued is no guarantee that no racist insinuations are made? I would classify that under 'accusations of a racial motivation' - so, imho Meghan definitely did do so; although she may have phrased slightly differently; but it was clear to each and everyone that she accused the BRF to be racially motivated in not making Archie a prince (which he wasn't entitled to - just like other great-grandchilderen of a monarch who aren't children of a direct heir).

Nothing is guaranteed, especially in the court of public opinion, but having the LP issued that denies Harry's children the prince/princess titles at least makes the matter clear cut and final.

In the absence of any official announcement, personal preference and sentiment grow because minds are free to conflate the issue into something larger or vastly different from what it really is. The longer Charles waits, the more it could be seen that Harry's children are not wanted as part of the monarchy and because of what he and Meghan have been saying, there's going to be more than a hint of racial bias presented as the reason.

If a slimmed down monarchy was the desired goal, and if it's true that Charles has been pushing for exactly that for quite a while, then the LP restricting titles should have been issued at the same time as the one for William's children was. But it wasn't, and now there's this controversy that is only going to get bigger with continued silence on the matter.

My guess is that Charles never intended to cut Harry's family out of the inner circle of working royals in the beginning, but when it became clear that Harry and Meghan were dissatisfied with the institution and the protocols and restrictions imposed on them, he changed his mind. Only when he did, the claim of racism started to get thrown about (including the implication that Archie wasn't going to get the security he should because of his race, when it was really about geography).

Now Charles is in a no-win situation, so he stays silent, because for all he knows the issue of titles is going to be topic of Spare Grandchildren: Part II.

 

[Prinsara]

"Sparey Spice": https://www.newsweek.com/prince-harry-book-spice-girls-wannabe-internet-spare-tiktok-1772946

How did we miss this?

 

[Curryong]

Spare went to no.1 on Dutch book charts, here is the article reporting it, but it's in Dutch.

Boek prins Harry in Nederland bovenaan bestsellerlijst | IJmuidercourant

And in Germany there were, as of yesterday, 100,000 copies sold of which about 40,000 were on the first day

Prinz Harry holt Platz 1 bis 3

 

[Somebody]

Nothing is guaranteed, especially in the court of public opinion, but having the LP issued that denies Harry's children the prince/princess titles at least makes the matter clear cut and final.

In the absence of any official announcement, personal preference and sentiment grow because minds are free to conflate the issue into something larger or vastly different from what it really is. The longer Charles waits, the more it could be seen that Harry's children are not wanted as part of the monarchy and because of what he and Meghan have been saying, there's going to be more than a hint of racial bias presented as the reason.

I fully agree, as I've stated before, that I think this matter should be settled. And my recommendation has been for quite some time that they limit the title of 'prince and princess' to children of the monarch and his/her direct heirs for those born after October 28, 2011 - as that is also the cut-off date for the order of the line of succession (from that moment on brothers are no longer ahead of their older sisters).

It is unfortunate, that currently only Harry's children will be impacted but in the future it will also apply to Louis' children - and in that way the debate on whether Charlotte's children shouldn't be made princes and princesses is avoided.

If a slimmed down monarchy was the desired goal, and if it's true that Charles has been pushing for exactly that for quite a while, then the LP restricting titles should have been issued at the same time as the one for William's children was. But it wasn't, and now there's this controversy that is only going to get bigger with continued silence on the matter.

However, as was pointed out before. That decision was the queen and not Charles. So, while he might have wanted it 'arranged' before the queen's passing, for some reason she didn't decide to make this change during her lifetime.

My guess is that Charles never intended to cut Harry's family out of the inner circle of working royals in the beginning, but when it became clear that Harry and Meghan were dissatisfied with the institution and the protocols and restrictions imposed on them, he changed his mind. Only when he did, the claim of racism started to get thrown about (including the implication that Archie wasn't going to get the security he should because of his race, when it was really about geography).

Now Charles is in a no-win situation, so he stays silent, because for all he knows the issue of titles is going to be topic of Spare Grandchildren: Part II.

Being cut out of the inner circle of royals is a completely different issue than the titles of the children. His children were never expected to become working royals, so no reason for them to be royal highnesses and prince/princess. Their parents removing themselves from the core working family, will imho not have changed the direction in which the title issue has been moving for some decades (see: Louise and James) but only confirmed that it is the right direction.

 

[Toledo]

...
My guess is that Charles never intended to cut Harry's family out of the inner circle of working royals in the beginning, but when it became clear that Harry and Meghan were dissatisfied with the institution and the protocols and restrictions imposed on them, he changed his mind. Only when he did, the claim of racism started to get thrown about (including the implication that Archie wasn't going to get the security he should because of his race, when it was really about geography).

Now Charles is in a no-win situation, so he stays silent, because for all he knows the issue of titles is going to be topic of Spare Grandchildren: Part II.

During King Charles first public speech he did mention that H&M requested no titles for their kids. And now I see the cat and mouse game being played out by H&M: they don't want to say they want king Charles to declare their kids princes, but if he doesn't both will run back to mommy...I mean, Oprah, and claim racism even when they didn't wanted titles for them when QEII was alive.

It's the so-called catch 22 dilemma for King Charles, bad if you do, bad if you don't.

King Charles wants to trim down the monarchy by narrowing down working royals. H&M are not working royals by choice nor live in the UK. In the USA they assume the titles will open doors in two societies that represent the USA version of an aristocracy: Hollywood A-List and the industrial billionaire and millionaires often gracing the pages of Forbes magazine. There's also in the USA a third aristocracy, the political world that often merges Hollywood's A-List with the Forbes 500 families.

H&M, in order to remain relevant here in the USA they need to up their game and show receipts for actual charity work and accomplishments before Harry's book is yesterday's news. Here in the USA we are getting tired of listening to his whining on TV while Meghan continues to sell her image riding on the 'Duchess of Sussex' planted before her name in every USA news mention or publication.

But if H&M get a hold of princely titles on their game to monetize royalty without responsibilities, I predict the UK tabloids will go full Cromwell on Charles for letting Harry control him and his decisions from the hills of Montecito.

My hope is Charles shows the couple who's running this show and remind them they did ask for no titles for their kids to QEII, and guess what? He'll give them that wish now.

 

[kimebear]

During King Charles first public speech he did mention that H&M requested no titles for their kids. And now I see the cat and mouse game being played out by H&M: they don't want to say they want king Charles to declare their kids princes, but if he doesn't both will run back to mommy...I mean, Oprah, and claim racism even when they didn't wanted titles for them when QEII was alive.

I disagree that Harry and Meghan didn't want titles for their kids.

I strongly believe that they didn't want the titles for the children of a Duke. Harry saw William's younger kids elevated and he wanted the same for his own children. When H&M were told no, they pitch a fit and either said 'well, then don't give them any', or just flat out refused to use the ones Archie and Lilibet were actually allowed.

That's the way they seem to work. Despite not having the same position in the hierarchy as W&K, they were determined to be treated equally and pouted when they weren't.

 

[kimebear]

His children were never expected to become working royals, so no reason for them to be royal highnesses and prince/princess.

We don't know that. Charles' family isn't as big as the one he was born into and he'd be in trouble right now without his sister, brother and SIL helping out. Harry's kids might be needed in the future, depending on what happens with George, Charlotte and Louis.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

My guess is that Charles never intended to cut Harry's family out of the inner circle of working royals in the beginning, [...]

Being cut out of the inner circle of royals is a completely different issue than the titles of the children. His children were never expected to become working royals, [...]

I agree with Somebody, both on the differentiation between prince/princess titles and working royal status within the British royal family (Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie have never been official working members) and that it is unlikely the Sussex children were ever planned to become working royals. For the generation before them, it was decided long before the Sussexes married that Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie would remain non-working members. The Sussex children, as children of a second son of a monarch, are in the same position as Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie.

During King Charles first public speech he did mention that H&M requested no titles for their kids.

No, the King did not mention the Sussex children in his public speeches since his accession. (The speech has been posted somewhere on the forum.) There was a press release at the time of Archie's birth (also posted several times on the forum) that the parents had chosen not to apply courtesy titles to him "at this time". (In accordance with British nobiliary tradition, he has been entitled since birth to use the courtesy titles of Earl of Dumbarton, Lord Kilkeel, Lord Mountbatten-Windsor, or Lord Archie Mountbatten-Windsor.)

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Nothing is guaranteed, especially in the court of public opinion, but having the LP issued that denies Harry's children the prince/princess titles at least makes the matter clear cut and final.

In the absence of any official announcement, personal preference and sentiment grow because minds are free to conflate the issue into something larger or vastly different from what it really is. The longer Charles waits, the more it could be seen that Harry's children are not wanted as part of the monarchy and because of what he and Meghan have been saying, there's going to be more than a hint of racial bias presented as the reason.

Well, my point was that clear-cut, final, official LPs denying Prince Harry's children the prince/princess titles (for the reign of their great-grandmother) already were issued (in 1917), but the conflation of issues and presentation of racial bias as the reason Archie was not made a prince (during the reign of his great-grandmother) happened all the same, as you aptly explained in your preceding post.

So I am afraid I don't see how a future LP could defeat the accusation of racial bias where the current LP failed. In fact, the hypothetical future LP would be even weaker against those accusations than the current LP, because the future LP would be issued by the same monarch who is being accused of racial bias (whereas the current LP was issued by George V) and the Sussex children would probably be the only male-line descendants immediately impacted by the future LP (whereas the current LP has already been applied to deny royal titles to many other male-line descendants).

 

[Toledo]

I disagree that Harry and Meghan didn't want titles for their kids.

I strongly believe that they didn't want the titles for the children of a Duke. Harry saw William's younger kids elevated and he wanted the same for his own children. When H&M were told no, they pitch a fit and either said 'well, then don't give them any', or just flat out refused to use the ones Archie and Lilibet were actually allowed.

That's the way they seem to work. Despite not having the same position in the hierarchy as W&K, they were determined to be treated equally and pouted when they weren't.

I see your point and it makes sense on Harry's game and his criticizing of William and Kate on his documentary, the book and every time someone gives him a platform on a TV show.
1. He can't accept that William is his senior.
2. He can't deal with William's children being placed now before him.

I bet in the eyes of their father he sees them both with equal love, considering putting up with Harry's antics and coming to the rescue every time. But their dad is also a Head of State and seniors precedes juniors.

Harry has no comprehension of chain of command nor to be discrete before he opens his mouth, and I can bet my dinner tonight the people around him encourage this self-destructive behavior to challenge the rules to fit his needs in the USA.
His kids can be princes in theory, but neither them nor the parents are working royals nor live in the UK. He can't be equal to his brother's position.

As the old Roman expression goes, they are both princes but William is the Primus inter pares , the First amongst equals. First born, first in line, that simple and still he continues to insult his older brother out of what, jealousy?

 

[yukari]

Interest in Harry's ridiculous book is waning now. Issues with the health service, the situation in Ukraine, a scandal in the Met police and even the cold weather are getting far more attention than Harold and his frozen todger.

The Iranian criticism has sadly put the book back in the headlines and I was hoping that it would just go away!

Oh, it's not going away anytime soon. This book is in 9gag now. And not just 9gag but many other memes sites. From the comments, at this point people read his book as a joke, to know how ridiculous the content of this book can be and then making memes out of it. Even accounts who never post any royal-related contents are doing it. And many of those memes have gone viral, particularly that Elizabeth Arden story, so I suspect more will make similar memes just to raise their SM engagement).

If Sussexes' PR aim is that all publicity is good publicity or earning money, then they got it. But if their aim is to garner sympathy or build reputation for their humanitarian/philanthropist brand, they've failed spectacularly.

In any case, they true winner here is the publisher. Maybe PH can approach Andrew next. I suspect his "memoir" could be best-seller too. Not necessarily because he's likeable or popular, but people love drama and controversy. After all, there is "famous" and there's "infamous"; an autobiography of Dahmer will sell better than Mother Theresa (Netflix's Dahmer is rating hit and I don't think it's because people love Dahmer).

 

[FigTree]

I disagree that Harry and Meghan didn't want titles for their kids.

I strongly believe that they didn't want the titles for the children of a Duke. Harry saw William's younger kids elevated and he wanted the same for his own children. When H&M were told no, they pitch a fit and either said 'well, then don't give them any', or just flat out refused to use the ones Archie and Lilibet were actually allowed.

That's the way they seem to work. Despite not having the same position in the hierarchy as W&K, they were determined to be treated equally and pouted when they weren't.

I agree with this. It is the only thing that makes sense really.

My friend sent me a pdf off the book. Obviously all over internet so I started it. I was not impressed. It’s a non fiction book and the descriptions please. Then Mummy, mummy, mummy. It read like Mills and Boon. I gave up so started looking for names. First think said about Kate. She likes clothes. Oh she liked clothes. She was. 20. What girl, of her type doesn’t. And to be honest…she never appeared to be that insanely into them before the royal wardrobe. When I was 20 and if I had money. Goodness.

 

[MARG]

Thanks for sharing this wonderful review…Tina Brown is indeed a brilliant observer of the Prince and his problems!

A brilliantly tongue-in-cheek snipe in the manner of her other much vaunted books.

I disagree that Harry and Meghan didn't want titles for their kids.

I strongly believe that they didn't want the titles for the children of a Duke. Harry saw William's younger kids elevated and he wanted the same for his own children. When H&M were told no, they pitch a fit and either said 'well, then don't give them any', or just flat out refused to use the ones Archie and Lilibet were actually allowed.

That's the way they seem to work. Despite not having the same position in the hierarchy as W&K, they were determined to be treated equally and pouted when they weren't.

Yes, exceptions were made with LP for W & C's children as the direct heirs and grandchildren of the monarch. The moment Charles became King, Harry's children should have been just like Beatrice and Eugenie.

That hasn't happened and, in the absence of LP's, it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth both for and against.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I thought there was some law that prevents his kids from being titled? Or the can't be Prince(,ss)

 

[Somebody]

I thought there was some law that prevents his kids from being titled? Or the can't be Prince(,ss)

That's not true. I recommend you read through the title-related threads, most relevant:
Archie and Lilibet: Style and title

What you might be referring to are the fact that based on the existing rules/'Letters Patent', his children did not qualify as prince/princess at the time of their birth as they were only great-grandchildren of a monarch in male-line, while only grandchildren of a monarch in male-line qualify. However, that situation has changed as when Elizabeth died and Charles ascended the throne they moved up from being great-grandchildren of a monarch to children of a monarch... So, now they legally are prince and princess. However, since about 20 years, there has been the precedent that not all princes and princesses are addressed as such, as Louise and James, as male-line grandchildren of Elizabeth II, have technically been prince and princess from birth, they have been addressed as children of an earl instead at the express request of the BRF. [Note: there has been some debate on whether they are prince(ss) or not but according to their mother, they are]

 

[FigTree]

A brilliantly tongue-in-cheek snipe in the manner of her other much vaunted books.

Yes, exceptions were made with LP for W & C's children as the direct heirs and grandchildren of the monarch. The moment Charles became King, Harry's children should have been just like Beatrice and Eugenie.

That hasn't happened and, in the absence of LP's, it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth both for and against.

It is what it is. In my mind those kids aren’t getting titles. I mean they don’t have them. You can’t arrive one day and just have them. They will just leave it and people will forget. The reality is that with Meghan and Harry appearing less in public and things. I mean long term what are they going to do? People will probably even forget their names.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

A lot of people here are talking about "spares" in terms of royalty, but sibling relations exist in every family. The one that comes to mind is the dynamic between the Kennedy brothers, Joe was the star and JFK picked up the title when he became the oldest in the family; Robert was his support. Families with multiple kids have these similarities, the oldest gets everything first yet at the same time they get more responsibility.

 

[Leopoldine]

Oh, it's not going away anytime soon. This book is in 9gag now. And not just 9gag but many other memes sites. From the comments, at this point people read his book as a joke, to know how ridiculous the content of this book can be and then making memes out of it. Even accounts who never post any royal-related contents are doing it. And many of those memes have gone viral, particularly that Elizabeth Arden story, so I suspect more will make similar memes just to raise their SM engagement).

If Sussexes' PR aim is that all publicity is good publicity or earning money, then they got it. But if their aim is to garner sympathy or build reputation for their humanitarian/philanthropist brand, they've failed spectacularly.

In any case, they true winner here is the publisher. Maybe PH can approach Andrew next. I suspect his "memoir" could be best-seller too. Not necessarily because he's likeable or popular, but people love drama and controversy. After all, there is "famous" and there's "infamous"; an autobiography of Dahmer will sell better than Mother Theresa (Netflix's Dahmer is rating hit and I don't think it's because people love Dahmer).

You are spot on about drama and controversy selling books! "Helter Skelter" was a huge best-seller. That was about the Manson murders.

Harry's broadcast interviews certainly didn't cast him in a good light. He actually said the word "c**k" on network television (Colbert) and he wasn't referring to a rooster.

In all fairness, he's probably used to all kinds of language being allowed on British television, and the BRF members are known for enjoying ribald humor now and then among themselves, but wow, that was shocking to hear. Another bad choice on his part.

 

[kimebear]

So I am afraid I don't see how a future LP could defeat the accusation of racial bias where the current LP failed.

Aside from us royalty watchers, the average person who has any interest in Harry and Meghan's saga has no idea about the current LP. That's what happens with a long reigning monarch. It's easy to forget the details that took place over a century ago. In the absence of any other explanation (which Charles isn't offering officially), it's much easier to assume nefarious reasons. Especially in this case.

Harry has no comprehension of chain of command nor to be discrete before he opens his mouth, and I can bet my dinner tonight the people around him encourage this self-destructive behavior to challenge the rules to fit his needs in the USA.

Exactly. Not a good indicator of someone who professed to love the military, is it?

Yes, exceptions were made with LP for W & C's children as the direct heirs and grandchildren of the monarch. The moment Charles became King, Harry's children should have been just like Beatrice and Eugenie.

That hasn't happened and, in the absence of LP's, it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth both for and against.

Yes it does.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

The book is a best seller - his publisher would not have given him a rumored $20 million advance if they didn't think there was much interest. What I find interesting is that his 60 Minute interview drew 11.2 million viewers, including next day streaming. It is a season high for 60 Minutes, but quite a drop from the 17 million that watched the Oprah interview. Either way, these ratings represent less than 1% of the U.S. population.

The bigger issue is that Harry deeply loves his brother and father. I think it is very likely that sometime in the future, Harry is going to realize that there would have been no pressure to damage his relationship with them if he had chosen a more modest lifestyle. He and Meghan could have lived comfortably, devoted their time and energy to their special causes and maintained a good relationship with their families.

But he choose a materialistic lifestyle. He lives in a luxurious mansion but it is only one mudslide, fire, earthquake away from total destruction. Instead of being taken seriously as a humanitarian, he is now the butt of jokes. He may be somewhat popular in the U.S. (I understand he's slipping) but he has lost a lot of standing with the people in the U.K. and will probably never recover. We all have to live with our choices.

 

[Prinsara]

The bigger issue is that Harry deeply loves his brother and father. I think it is very likely that sometime in the future, Harry is going to realize that there would have been no pressure to damage his relationship with them if he had chosen a more modest lifestyle. He and Meghan could have lived comfortably, devoted their time and energy to their special causes and maintained a good relationship with their families.

If Harry does indeed love his brother, father, or any other living member of his family, he's chosen a very strange way of demonstrating it.

I think it's his own anger and other issues at play, not necessarily the materialistic lifestyle.

 

[yukari]

The More Prince Harry and Meghan Markle Say, the Less Americans Like Them

(...)

Redfield & Wilton polled 2,000 U.S. eligible voters for Newsweek on January 16, six days after the publication of Spare.

Prince Harry was liked by 31 percent and disliked by 38 percent giving him a net approval rating of -7. Data collected by Redfield & Wilton for Newsweek as recently as December 5 put Harry at +38, meaning he dropped 45 points in just more than a month.

Meghan was viewed favorably by 26 percent of Americans and unfavorably by 39 percent, giving her a net approval rating of -13. This compares to +23 on December 5, a drop of 36 points.

(...)

Well, I'm sure the Sussexes don't care if Americans see them negatively because his book. It's international best-seller so it doesn't matter what people, particularly Americans, think about them because of the book. It's only 2000 Americans as samples anyway, they should have polled the all American citizens because that's how polls and statistics work

And because polls conducted by "tabloids" are rubbish, here's what stated on Redfield & Wilton's website:

What we do*

We are a global strategic consulting firm that incorporates in-depth polling and market research to advise individuals and organisations on how to maximise support for a broad range of campaigns and issues.

We can identify the wide range of potential supporters for any cause, and then find the best message for each aspect of that diverse and complex audience.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

If Harry does indeed love his brother, father, or any other living member of his family, he's chosen a very strange way of demonstrating it.

I think it's his own anger and other issues at play, not necessarily the materialistic lifestyle.

I hear what you are saying but I think money is the biggest driver right now. He could have just given a bunch of interviews without being paid if he just wanted to get his "truth" out.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

How much more can Prince Harry write about? Would he write about how he got along with his grandfather Earl Spencer?

Would Prince Harry consider writing about the time he played Strip Poker in the United States?

 

[HRHHermione]

Would Prince Harry consider writing about the time he played Strip Poker in the United States?

If you mean pool, he already wrote about it in this book.

 

[Leopoldine]

The book is a best seller - his publisher would not have given him a rumored $20 million advance if they didn't think there was much interest. What I find interesting is that his 60 Minute interview drew 11.2 million viewers, including next day streaming. It is a season high for 60 Minutes, but quite a drop from the 17 million that watched the Oprah interview. Either way, these ratings represent less than 1% of the U.S. population.

The bigger issue is that Harry deeply loves his brother and father. I think it is very likely that sometime in the future, Harry is going to realize that there would have been no pressure to damage his relationship with them if he had chosen a more modest lifestyle. He and Meghan could have lived comfortably, devoted their time and energy to their special causes and maintained a good relationship with their families.

But he choose a materialistic lifestyle. He lives in a luxurious mansion but it is only one mudslide, fire, earthquake away from total destruction. Instead of being taken seriously as a humanitarian, he is now the butt of jokes. He may be somewhat popular in the U.S. (I understand he's slipping) but he has lost a lot of standing with the people in the U.K. and will probably never recover. We all have to live with our choices.

Oprah connects with a lot of demographics. She's also seen as a trusted cultural influencer on a nationwide scale. Anderson Cooper is probably the coolest "60 Minutes" broadcaster ever, but Oprah ... she could interview Pizza Rat and get 10 million viewers.

Pizza Rat: "Social media, the paps, the Rat Rota ... I can't even drag a slice of pizza down onto the train tracks of the New York City subway system without the cameras clicking."

 

[Ghost]

Does anyone have an archived link for the article by Julia Samuels in The Time, please?

 

[yukari]

Does anyone have an archived link for the article by Julia Samuels in The Time, please?

Do you mean this one?
Therapist Julia Samuel: ‘We shouldn’t be venting all our feelings to all people’ (paywall)

Archive

 

[Toledo]

After the crowing I hope both Harry and company give us all a few months of break from their confessionals, books, TV deals, victimization and passing judgement on family problems.

Before the end of the year I wish both Harry and Meghan make peace with their demons, as in the American side of the Markle family, and stop making King Charles first year as a king so hurtful on every interview he does about this book he helped a ghostwriter complete.

 

[Ghost]

Do you mean this one?
Therapist Julia Samuel: ‘We shouldn’t be venting all our feelings to all people’ (paywall)

Archive

Yes, thank you so so much!