Royal House of Georgia 1: Ending 2020


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Dear Benjamin: According to the plan of the Patriarch of Georgia...
Thank you for your answer, Varaz.

Given the many media reports and the fact that all information about Princess Anna and last year's wedding have been removed from Prince David's website, I think it is fair to say that the marriage is not intact.

The only way the monarchy in Georgia will ever be restored is if the Bagrationi family is united. The union of Anna Bagrationi-Gruzinsky and David Bagrationi-Mukhransky was the perfect way to solve the issue. However, since the couple has split and both branches are now at odds with one another, they have effectively squandered any chances that they might have had of ascending a throne. End of story.
 
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Dear Benjamin, unfortunately plans of Patriarch have changed...
It would be very silly if Georgia and its people have decided not to restore the Monarchy because of any ill-bred high-nobiliary prince like David Mukhraneli.
Excuse but the country requires it, as there is a true royal family of the Crown Prince Nugzar, and true monarchists of all Georgia will make everything that the true Royal family of Prince Nugzar was more notable all over the world.
Thank you
 
There are obvious agendas being promoted in this thread which is not in itself an issue except where comments become personal.
A reminder that members are expected to address each other with respect. Posts that do not will be edited or deleted.

Warren
TRF Administrator
 
Dear Varaz,

If David Bagrationi-Mukhransky is just an "ill-bred high-nobiliary prince" then why exactly did Prince Nugzar let his daughter marry him in the first place?

Prince Nugzar may be the Head of the Royal House of Georgia, but if he died today, how many Georgians would actually accept Princess Anna as his heiress? She is twice-divorced with two young daughters and no male children. Furthermore, Princess Anna is a school teacher who does not have a high profile in Georgia and who remained basically unknown to the outside world until her second marriage with her distant cousin Prince David.

On the other hand, David Bagrationi seems to have more financial resources at his disposal than the Gruzinskys, and he claims to be close to the Patriarch. He may not be Head of the Royal House, but many people believe him to be so anyways.

However, Prince David, like Princess Anna, has the added baggage of a failed marriage. If neither he nor she can cope with the duties that a marriage entails, then why would Georgians expect either one of them to be capable of the responsibilities that would come with being a monarch?

Both sides need to heal this rift. Otherwise, they can kiss their hopes of possibly reigning in Georgia goodbye forever.
 
Dear Benjamin.

you have the whole reason.

the nugzar branch is a normal family acquaintance for his art and for the Georgian people it is very common.
After 200 years without monarchy the Georgians should decide his future monarch, and I do not believe that anybody will supporting nugzar or ana,just as till now nobody supported them,apart from they 4 friends.

the gruzinsky are losing the time with things like this one ,and what they should do is to center on what really it imports.

without H.R.H. Prince davit will not be able to do anything just as they have not done anything until H.R.H. Prince davit looked at Ana.

and why nugzar let hir daugthers married with grigol malania (ana first housbend)and teimuraz chichinadze (anas sister housbend) ?.
something strange ,,,,,if davit its not royal why they have pretensions with him and not with nugzars grandchilds fathers????????.
 
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Dear Benjamin, you asking: "If David Bagrationi-Mukhransky is just an "ill-bred high-nobiliary prince" then why exactly did Prince Nugzar let his daughter marry him in the first place?"
We answer: We, the monarchists, really don`t know, but we too had a same question and when we asked some members of HRH Nugzars Chancellery they said - "HRH Prince Nugzar in all has blindly trusted in the Patriarch... about what Prince now regrets. The Royal family did not really know David personally till the marriage. HRH Crown Prince Nugzar demanded protection and observance of his rights and royal prerogative during the wedding ceremony, but later all his demands were coldy ignored. According to the plan of the Patriarch, before constitutional monarchy could be accepted by the country, the child born from this marriage would have to grow up so he could become the future monarch, acquiring the heritage of this throne from his mother –-- HRH Princess Anna. The plan for some reason, we do not know why, did not consider the importance of the Royal Person of HRH Nugzar as the present head of the Royal House. The Patriarch's decisions simply concentrated only on the future child (?). Prince Nugzar considered the rationality of the plan of the Patriarch and agreed that in the future, royal rights could transfer from him to his grandson. However, David, right after the wedding, revealed his hidden agenda, which he kept hidden till after the marriage. He has openly refused his conjugal duty entirely, and therefore the creation of a future child. He also expressed before HRH Princess Anna that the child is not necessary for him, because he is already the "king." Right after the wedding, David declared himself on an Internet site as the head of the house, and his immediate ancestors as kings, when in reality they were never anything more than part of the high nobility of Georgia. With these impudent acts of betrayal, he has roughly broken a legitimate principle of a dynasty and destroyed the plan of the Patriarch."
 
varaz the mukhraneli brach its reconozited many time ago.and not after the wedding.
the gruzinsky branch its trying not to become extinct.

really you think that with this attitude someone is going to help the gruzinsky not to become extinct.?
 
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giorgi says: "if davit its not royal why they have pretensions with him and not with nugzars grandchilds fathers?"
We answer: It is simple, they never claimed that they are royals... but David did...

giorgi dreams: "the gruzinsky branch its trying not to become extinct."
We answer: The Royal Line can not be extinct if the generation proceeds, no matter by male or female and we have lots of examples of it around the world. Maybe you think that the Line of British crown has stoped on Queen Elizabeth ? or take Dutch monarchy for example...
 
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It would be most kind of members from Georgia to clarify the following. Given the fact that the unification marriage did not work out, I wonder who will have a precedence in a future generation: Princess Anna's children or Prince David's children.
 
Dear Al Bina.

its easy to answer you ,the ana childrens are not Bagrationi surname ,are malania surname like they father.
no one georgian will accept the malanias family,i soo sorry.

In 1946 H.I.R.H Vladimir III Kiríllovich Romanov received a letter from the Infante Fernando of Spain. His daughter Меrcedes wanted to marry Prince Irakli Bagration Mukhraneli of Georgia, brother of the Princess Leonida. Therefore Fernando wanted to know if the above mentioned marriage would have status equality or not according to the Royal house of Georgia out or not recognized as of tsarist dignity. For the Record of December 05, 1946, Vladimir admitted that the members of the Dynasty of the Bagration Mukhrani of Georgia had status equality that the rest of the royal houses of Europe. This way there was corrected the violation realized by the Emperor Alejandro I of Russia in 1801. Of the previous thing it remains clear that the marriage of Vladimir and Leonida is between pairs and for it his progeny, in this case the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, preserves his rights to the Throne of all the Rusias.

Are the gruzinskys having any conection with any Imperial or Royal House arround the world? or just after wedding pretension symptoms?.
unfortunately these pretensions will only take them to the way of the extinction

list of real Bagration Mukhraneli.males :ROFLMAO:
Irakli Bagrationi.
Davit Bagrationi.
Guram Bagrationi
Bagrat Bagrationi.
Ioane Bagrationi.
Alexander Bagrationi.
Mikhail Bagrationi.
Alexander Bagrationi.
Irakli Bagrationi.
Wladimir Bagrationi.
Othar Bagrationi.
Othar Bagrationi.

list of real Bagration Gruzinsky.males
Nugzar Bagrationi.
 
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H.R.H.Prince Irakli Bagration Mukhraneli.


Petre Gruzisky prominet poet
 
Jorge+de+Bagration+entrevista+1+002.jpg


H.R.H.Prince Giorgi Bagration Mukhraneli.



Nugzar Bagration Gruzinsky
 







H.R.H.Prince Davit Bagration Mukhraneli.



Ana Bagration Gruzinsky (in the middle)
 
giorgi claims: "For the Record of December 05, 1946, Vladimir admitted that the members of the Dynasty of the Bagration Mukhrani of Georgia had status equality that the rest of the royal houses of Europe."
We repeat: The Mukhranbatoni branch, as stated, were offshoot princes of the high nobility and lost all sovereignty and dynastic rights over 500 years ago. No one of this line has reigned over any kingdom or even a small territory, since that time. They received recognition from Imperial Russia as " the Illustrious," without the higher right of "Highness" attached because of their lesser status. In addition, because the Mukhraneli line was such a minor line in the estimation of Imperial Russia that only the head of this noble house could use any title.
On their non-royal status for example, Nicholos II, the Emperor of Russia, decided that the marriage between the Imperial Princess Tatiana Konstantinovna and Prince Konstantin Alexandrovich Bagration-Mukhransky was ". . . legally morganatic, reflecting the non-dynastic status that the Bagration-Mukhranskys held in Russia in 1911. (Princess Tatiana Constantinovna of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) "According to the Almanach de Gotha, Princess Tatiana Constantinovna of Russia morganatically wed Prince Constantine Alexandrovich Bagration-Mukhransky." ( Line of succession to the Russian throne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) The Infante Juan of Spain, designated heir of King Alfonso XIII of Spain, refused to recognize "his god-son as a Spanish dynast," because his mother had married a non-royal prince Mukhransky, the grandfather of Prince David. (Infante Juan, Count of Barcelona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Prince David Bagrationi-Mukhraneli is from this line, which is a line of non-reigning, non-dynastic princes of the high nobility of Georgia.
 
Al bina is asking: "I wonder who will have a precedence in a future generation: Princess Anna's children or Prince David's children."
We answer: Dear Al bina, we asked this question to Royal Chancellery members and they said:
"...According to dynasty legislation, in the Royal House, the status of future successor is determined by decree of his Royal Highness Prince Nugzar (head of the Royal House), but until then, the marriage is considered as an ordinary marriage. The fate of the marriage is to be decided by the married couple themselves..."
 
520697d10.jpg


HRH ANNA, Georgian Princess (2nd in line of succession right
after HRH Prince Nugzar)
(Batonishvili/Tsarevich) (Born 1976)​
 
It has been most kind of you to explain the situation. It is unfortunate that Princess Anna's children are unlikely to be a part of the succession line.
 
We answer: We, the monarchists, really don`t know, but we too had a same question and when we asked some members of HRH Nugzars Chancellery they said - "HRH Prince Nugzar in all has blindly trusted in the Patriarch... about what Prince now regrets...

Dear Varaz,

Again, thank you for taking the time to answer my query.

If what you say is true, then it is a shame that the wishes of Prince Nugzar have been mostly ignored. I read that the Prince played a part in coordinating and planning the beautiful ceremony that united his eldest daughter with her distant cousin. Prince Nugzar must be very disappointed with the way that events have unfolded.

Though the Royal Family did not personally know Prince David prior to this marriage, I assume that Princess Anna and Prince David were in the process of becoming acquainted with one another over the years before their 2009 wedding. For instance, I have seen a picture of the two together at a 2007 Bagrationi family gathering. It was difficult to tell whether they appeared to actually enjoy one another's company, but they were sitting next to each other. Also, Princess Anna's (forced?) divorce from Grigory Malania must have happened not long after their youngest daughter Miriam was born in about 2006/2007.

None of what you say reflects well on David Bagrationi-Mukhransky. His refusal to even try to have children with his wife should be grounds for an annulment.

Too bad Princess Anna didn't insist on marrying the younger Prince Ugo Bagrationi-Mukhransky. He is the best looking of his brothers, and one would hope, a bit nicer. Prince Irakly Bagrationi-Mukhransky (born 1977) and Prince Lelio Orsini D'Aragona (born 1981 and son of the Georgian Ambassador to the Vatican, Princess Kethevane Bagrationi-Mukhransky) are still single as well.
 
Prince Nugzar was one of the speakers at a conference concerning “Mass exiles of the Caucasian peoples in the 19th-20th centuries” that took place in Tbilisi on 23 February 2010.

More information and pictures: Fund of Caucasus
 
Al Bina herself makes conclusions: "It is unfortunate that Princess Anna's children are unlikely to be a part of the succession line."
We answer: We think that any sharp-conclusions made by people from outside of Royal Family into the account of the law of succession simply obscenely and ethically wrong. We simply face infringement of Human Rights and Dynastic Law. Who will inherit succession rights, it must be determined by the Head of the concrete royal house.
 
Dear Benjamin,
Thanks for right understanding of things.
 
Al Bina herself makes conclusions: "It is unfortunate that Princess Anna's children are unlikely to be a part of the succession line."
We answer: We think that any sharp-conclusions made by people from outside of Royal Family into the account of the law of succession simply obscenely and ethically wrong. We simply face infringement of Human Rights and Dynastic Law. Who will inherit succession rights, it must be determined by the Head of the concrete royal house.
It has been most kind of you to comment on my post.
 
Dear Al Bina, excuse us if we have offended you. We did not wish to offend you intentionally. We simply remind of the rights concerning royal houses, that`s all. We talk about very delicate theme like Royalty, thus we should be more natty I guess...
Please don`t take close to heart...
Sincerely, Varaz
 
Georgian people,Church,etc will never accept a woman or a Malania surname as a head of the Georgian Royal family even if kart kakheti bagartionis descendent Nugzar whan.
 
Dear giorgi, I really wonder why are you so offensive and aggressive, are you hate Georgia and its royalty or what ? Or, maybe you have some personal hostility with the Royal house of Georgia ? Please feel free to explain to us and to all members of this forum the real reason of it.
Actually you cannot ignore the authentic rights of Crown Prince Nugzar thus nor his rightful successor HRH Princess Anna and consequently you offend the child of the Princess? Yes, very kind of you... a courageous act !
 
Varaz Say.according to the plan of the Patriarch, before constitutional monarchy could be accepted by the country, the child born from this marriage would have to grow up so he could become the future monarch,

Varaz say:
We think that any sharp-conclusions made by people from outside of Royal Family into the account of the law of succession simply obscenely and ethically wrong. We simply face infringement of Human Rights and Dynastic Law. Who will inherit succession rights, it must be determined by the Head of the concrete royal house.

Varaz say;That would be HRH Princess Anna's exclusive right as HRH Prince Nugzar has designated her as his heir, and the more ancient history and traditions of ancient Georgia provides for female succession, when no male heir can be found, because succession is primogeniture
This determination is absolute and will not change.

are you contradicting yourself, first do you say that the patriarch plans was a child, later that nugzar it can change the laws, later that the women can be the head of the family, and why not the patriarch support the all ready born anas daughters?

and why is not the nugzar older sister the chiefs of the gruzinsky family?.

and I do not insult anybody, when I can call anybody by his surname that is it is not any insult.

or not to be a nobleman its an insult?

i sorry but its the reality.
 
Hello giorgi,
If you have noticed as I wrote to Benjamin: "unfortunately plans of Patriarch have changed..."
Before the wedding His Royal Highness Nugzar trusted this plan ( the child born from this marriage would have to grow up) and raised a question about legal privileges of Princess Anna towards her future spouse. As you know, according to the historic tradition of Georgian kingdom, it is not obligatory for the representative of Royal Family that his/her marriage was equal, so, the marriage with David was acceptable. However, Royal Status is assigned to future successor by the Royal Line, whether it be male or female. In our case, the Royal Dignity would be assigned on successor from Princess Anna’s side, as high-noble David does not belong to the Royal Line, about which he (David) was elucidated more than once before the marriage.

Now as for Princess Anna`s daughters - We still have asked members of Chancellery about this matter and they really surprised us, they said: "by blessing of the Patriarch and by the royal decree of contract signed both from the prince and from his first son-in-law the decree was defining - the born children from this marriage will carry the Royal surname of Bagrationi-Gruzinski."
Somebody knew about it ?... Thanks to royal chancellery and its members for such an important information !
 
The Truth about Leonida Georgievna Kirbi (Bagration-Mukhranski).
Part 1.​
Leonida Georgievna was born 23 (on October, 6th) 1914 in Tiflis, in a family of the former leader of Dusheti district nobility of Tiflisky province., prince George Aleksandrovicha Bagration – Muhransky and of the Polish noblewomen origin Elena Sigizmundovna Zlotnitskaja. (Daughters of the linear controller of Vladikavkaz railways. Cheslava-Sigizmund Zlotnitsky).

Leonida Georgievna belonged to the Muhransky high-nobiliary branch of Bagrationis, branche separated from reigning Bagrations in the beginning of 16 century and owned «Mukhrani fief». It is necessary to notice that the lawful head of the House of Bagrations lives in Georgia till today, HRH Crown Prince Nugzar Petrovich Bagration of Georgia, the direct descendant of last King of Georgia - George XII.
Thus, Leonida Georgievna from father side does not belong even to the reigning House of Bagrationis, but from one of the line which representatives never occupying the Throne of Georgia.

In 1921 after overthrowing of the Menshevic government of Noe Zhordania, George Bagration- Mukhransky family has gone abroad, however in 1923 they have returned back. In 1931 the family by means and help of M.Gorki has left the USSR. Leonida Georgievna has grown in France, and in 1934 in Nece has married the American financier Samner Moore Kirbi. For Mr. Kirbi it was already a third marriage. From this marriage in 1935 daughter Elena was born. In 1937 the couple has divorced. Samnera Moore Kerbi was waited by sad destiny, in 8th of April 1945 he was lost in German camp Buhenvald.

With the beginning of the Second World War friends have helped Leonida Georgievna with daughter Elena, to leave for Spain. There in 1946 the citizen of the USA Mrs. Leonida Kirbi, has got acquainted with the Head of the Russian Imperial House Grand duke Vladimir Kirillovich. On August, 13th, 1948 on the eve of the "Uspensky post" they have secretly got married in the Greek church in Switzerland.

On this moment it is necessary to concentrate more carefully on this particular case. In 1911 Princess of Imperial Blood Tatyana Konstantinovna has decided to marry by love on prince Konstantin Aleksandrovich Bagration-Mukhranski, the second cousin of the Leonidas father Georgi. This marriage has been estimated as morganatic by the Russian imperial House. Emperor Nikolay II asked the permission to fulfilment of marriage to Empress Maria Fedorovna as the senior in a sort. From Princess Tatyana Konstantinovna was taken renunciation of Throne rights of succession. (Later "the moving chancellery of Grand duke Vladimir Kirillovich" has tried to hide this left-handed marriage).

Thereby unequal position Bagration – Muhransky in relation to Romanovs was underlined. It is indicative, as senator Korevo, without assuming in 1922 whom the successor of Grand duke Kiryl Vladimirovicha will select to itself in spouses, resulted marriage of prince of Imperial Blood of Tatyana Konstantinovna with prince Bagration – Mukhranski as a left-handed marriage example «with the person who does not have own advantage, that is not belonging to any reigning or sovereign house».

It is necessary to notice also that the Synod of Russian Orthodox Church Abroad having received the telegramme of the aunt of Vladimir Kirillovicha – HIH. Grand duchess Elena Vladimirovna, the princess of Greece, has then forbidden wedding of the Grand duke with Mrs. Leonida Kirbi . But they have hastily left to Switzerland and got married in the Greek church. (Vladimir Kirillovich will explain later it in "naive" tradition: «Then in Madrid there was no orthodox church (!!!!) the Nearest was in Lausanne (Switzerland), therefore we have gone there»...)
To be continued​
 
can you tell us some interesting thinks?

the nugzar grand father (petre)wife surname?if she was a regent a restauran and when the nugzar father born petre was 65 year old?

nugzar mather surname?

nugzar wife surname?

anas daughters surnames?
 
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