Prince William Current Events 18: January-May 2008

[karla64]

Wills is a top heir sea rescue

Prince William | In control | At Sea King helicopter | The Sun |HomePage|News|Royals

 

[Al_bina]

There have been many complaints about William receiving pilot training at all. It may fulfill a lifelong ambition, but with the cuts to the armed services, I have to wonder why we are wasting taxpayers money on training a young man who, under normal circumstances would be turned down for pilot training and will never be able to repay the country for his tuition, by going to war. He has money of his own and should have had private lessons.
[snipped and my bolding]

He is too tall and his sight does not meet the required standard, with or without corrective surgery.

The first and foremost, he is the Prince and the son of the Crown Prince. In comparison with the aforementioned, eye sight and height are just minor details. Thus, Prince William has got his pilot training.

 

[Isana]

True, he didn't get into the program because he fully qualifies but because he's the heir and they want him to get to know all three branches of the military. If I remember correctly this course was actually specifically designed for him so he doesn't get the "usual" pilot training anyways, which probably takes much longer than 4 months.

 

[kpusa1981]

True, he didn't get into the program because he fully qualifies but because he's the heir and they want him to get to know all three branches of the military. If I remember correctly this course was actually specifically designed for him so he doesn't get the "usual" pilot training anyways, which probably takes much longer than 4 months.

There were 20 others that took it with him.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

The first and foremost, he is the Prince and the son of the Crown Prince. In comparison with the aforementioned, eye sight and height are just minor details. Thus, Prince William has got his pilot training.

I'd say that depends. There are practical reasons for the decision not to let people with poor eyesight fly fighter jets. Plus the pilot should fit comfortably into the cockpit, so that all systems can be reached properly and security systems work perfectly.

Obviously at some stage people responsible decided that the prince's height and bad eyesight, while not within the specifications, only posed a controllable risk. But to call the specifications worked out by experts and agreed to by the RAF officials "minor details" only because the person they apply to is a prince is a bit much, IMHO. It's a bit like allowing a blind man to drive a car because he is a prince. Noone would do that. And equally the specifications applying to the flying of jets are there for good reasons as well.

 

[Al_bina]

The key point is that Prince William is highly unlikely to fly a fighter jet as a part of his military career. According to Skydragon, he is going to become a naval officer (see post#20). I hope I have understood her correctly. Under such circumstances, the pilot training seems to be Prince William’s whim fulfilled at the expense of the tax payers.
Generally speaking, one should have a natural appropriate physique to become a fighter pilot. One of my classmates was disqualified because of a minor defect in one of his eyes he was totally unaware of. He was told that he had to have naturally good eyesight without any corrective surgery.

 

[Skydragon]

The key point is that Prince William is highly unlikely to fly a fighter jet as a part of his military career. According to Skydragon, he is going to become a naval officer (see post#20). I hope I have understood her correctly. Under such circumstances, the pilot training seems to be Prince William’s whim fulfilled at the expense of the tax payers.
Generally speaking, one should have a natural appropriate physique to become a fighter pilot. One of my classmates was disqualified because of a minor defect in one of his eyes he was totally unaware of. He was told that he had to have naturally good eyesight without any corrective surgery.

William will be doing only 6 months (I believe) with the Royal Navy. It certainly does seem to be designed to fulfill Williams lifelong ambition, what a great pity he did not learn to fly privately. There are many officer jobs within the RAF, that would have taught him more about how the RAF works.
--------------------------------
The course was designed for William, normal training covers a lot more areas, than William has undertaken. All of the craft he has learned to fly, are not considered to be 'hard', by others who have been through the courses, so why they have to make out he is a 'top gun' is beyond me! Perhaps I would be more impressed if he could handle the Typhoon.

This post is of course fact and my opinion.

 

[Trader]

They weed out those over 6ft when it comes to selection, so although you are allowed to join, none of the pilots I know or have met are over the 6ft mark.

The RAF site does not specify a height restriction because they want people to join and then 'encourage' them into other trades.

BBC NEWS | Wales | South East Wales | Teenage pilot too tall for jets

William would be refused Pilot Training because of his height, his eyesight and his age, the upper age limit is 23.

The height restriction is not as simplistic as overall height. There are a series of measurements that determine whether the prospective pilot can fit into the cockpit which include sitting height and the measurement from hip to knee. I suspect it is this latter measure that ruled out the lad in your link.

Obviously PW fitted in the cockpits of the aircraft that he was due to fly. Since he was never going to fly fast jets then the height restriction was not an issue.

 

[Skydragon]

The height restriction is not as simplistic as overall height. There are a series of measurements that determine whether the prospective pilot can fit into the cockpit which include sitting height and the measurement from hip to knee. I suspect it is this latter measure that ruled out the lad in your link.

Obviously PW fitted in the cockpits of the aircraft that he was due to fly. Since he was never going to fly fast jets then the height restriction was not an issue.

Because of all the limitations, William would not have been put forward for pilot training. If you look at pictures of him, it is quite clear he has long 'in proportion' legs.

The boy in the link was too tall and makes no mention of being measured, it is the usual excuse put forward, when weeding out those it knew would be too tall as pilots. They have after all got to fill the 1000's of other trades that the RAF need to run.

 

[Trader]

Because of all the limitations, William would not have been put forward for pilot training. If you look at pictures of him, it is quite clear he has long 'in proportion' legs.

The boy in the link was too tall and makes no mention of being measured, it is the usual excuse put forward, when weeding out those it knew would be too tall as pilots. They have after all got to fill the 1000's of other trades that the RAF need to run.

I don't know whether PW would have been accepted as a normal applicant for pilot training or not and I doubt that one can guess about his 'hip to knee' measurement from photographs.

In any case I was just pointing out that it is incorrect to say that propective pilots are routinely 'weeded out' at selection if they are over 6 feet tall. I'm not sure what you mean about it being 'the usual excuse'.

 

[Skydragon]

In any case I was just pointing out that it is incorrect to say that propective pilots are routinely 'weeded out' at selection if they are over 6 feet tall. I'm not sure what you mean about it being 'the usual excuse'.

Many of the young men who apply for officer training are accepted, but those that measure over 6ft are 'guided' to other trades. Very few join the RAF with a view to being in charge of logistics or the regiment, they are weeded out and into those trades. When anyone challenges the decision not to put them forward for pilot training because of height, the usual/normal excuse of leg measurement is trotted out, as seen by the article I posted.

However, it really is immaterial, William would under normal circumstances have been unacceptable as a candidate for pilot training. He would have been refused entry because of his age, he would have been refused entry because of his eyesight, he would also in my opinion and experience have been refused training as a pilot because of his height!

 

[Warren]

Since William now has his wings, further argument as to whether he should have been accepted for training in the first place is somewhat beside the point and not relevant to his current events.

There is a thread in Members' Corner, Military Topics and Questions where this and other military issues can be discussed.

thanks,
Warren
British Forums moderator

 

[Skydragon]

This is absolutely shameful behaviour from William and the brown nosers!

Most young men are happy to jump in a taxi to get to a stag do. But not Prince William.
The second in line to the throne used a £10million RAF helicopter to fly to a drunken weekend in the Isle of Wight, it emerged last night.

Prince William flies multi-million pound RAF Chinook helicopter to cousin's Isle of Wight stag do... and picks up Harry on the way | the Daily Mail

British troops in Afghanistan are critically short of the helicopters.
Privately, senior commanders are furious over the incident, which threatens to take the gloss off William's four months of pilot training with the RAF.
They fear the stag party trip will bolster claims that the whole costly training package has been a "jolly".

What an example to set!

 

[Jo of Palatine]

This is absolutely shameful behaviour from William and the brown nosers!

Most young men are happy to jump in a taxi to get to a stag do. But not Prince William.
The second in line to the throne used a £10million RAF helicopter to fly to a drunken weekend in the Isle of Wight, it emerged last night.

Prince William flies multi-million pound RAF Chinook helicopter to cousin's Isle of Wight stag do... and picks up Harry on the way | the Daily Mail

British troops in Afghanistan are critically short of the helicopters.
Privately, senior commanders are furious over the incident, which threatens to take the gloss off William's four months of pilot training with the RAF.
They fear the stag party trip will bolster claims that the whole costly training package has been a "jolly".

What an example to set!

I read in an article that this was still part of his training on flying helicopters. That he needed experience in certain situations that were given by this flight into London and then out onto the open waters of the Channel. Just like the training hours car drivers have to have at the motorway and by night before they are allowed to drive on their own.

It is unfortunate, though, that at the end of this trip such a party was waiting for the princes. Sometimes it is better IMHO not to try to catch two flies with the same stroke... I doubt anybody would have said anything if the prince had simply rented a helicopter or booked a heli-shuttle. He has enough money of his own after all.

I agree with you, it doesn't look good when presented that way. even though it probably was just a nice gesture of the officer responsible for the okay to this heli-trip.

 

[Skydragon]

Part of his training has to be over water, it is true and I'm sure the RAF knows that there is a huge body of water a lot closer to the base, than the IoW. Do any of us think that it would have been allowed for any other trainee?

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Part of his training has to be over water, it is true and I'm sure the RAF knows that there is a huge body of water a lot closer to the base, than the IoW. Do any of us think that it would have been allowed for any other trainee?

For the son of the Prime Minister maybe?

 

[kimebear]

There would still be a shortage of Chinooks in Afghanistan if William had received his water training under different, but certainly more politically correct, circumstances. Implying that the troops are suffering because William needed a ride to a stag party is inflamatory and simply a red herring issue. The DM readers who are wailing and gnashing their teeth over this incident are the same ones, years from now, who would give William hell if he didn't have first hand experience with the military when he is King. I could understand the irritation if he was simply on a joyride, but if his training requires certain experiences and he was able to legitimately fulfill them with this trip, then what is the real issue? The flight was 80 minutes long. Was the duration excessive for this type of training?

 

[Skydragon]

There would still be a shortage of Chinooks in Afghanistan if William had received his water training under different, but certainly more politically correct, circumstances. Implying that the troops are suffering because William needed a ride to a stag party is inflamatory and simply a red herring issue. The DM readers who are wailing and gnashing their teeth over this incident are the same ones, years from now, who would give William hell if he didn't have first hand experience with the military when he is King. I could understand the irritation if he was simply on a joyride, but if his training requires certain experiences and he was able to legitimately fulfill them with this trip, then what is the real issue? The flight was 80 minutes long. Was the duration excessive for this type of training?

It is the fact that they had one to spare for this jaunt.

It is not just readers of the Daily Mail, but readers of the Telegraph, military families and ordinary men/women in the street. Then again they already knew it was all a 'jolly'.

Years from now, if and when William is King, it won't make any difference what limited 'experience' he has had, after all, the country is not run by the monarch and hasn't been for a long time. The military is 'run' by the MOD. The 'flying skills he has learned will have been replaced and if anyone believes that the months learning to fly was anything but a costly indulgence, they need locking up. IMO.

 

[Isana]

I cannot be sure but I guess the helicopter he used was a "training helicopter" for pilots. It'll probably never be send anywhere anyways. It's only used to train and if noone else needed it (maybe because they don't fly Fridays?) I see no reason why William shouldn't have been allowed to take that flight. I think you see that whole attachment from the wrong POV. Of course he'll be no use as a pilot but that's not the point. He's a member of the RF and as such does PR for different institutions and this stint is PR for the military. I'm sure quite a few young men who saw the pics of Will on his first flight thought "Great! I want that too! I want to be a RAF pilot" and that, IMO, was the whole point. PR for the RAF - the same way they used Harry's Afghanistan mission for good PR for the military in general. Whether that is worth the money spend is up to the MoD to decide. But they must have good reasons to "train" the young royals or they wouldn't have taken them on in the first place.

 

[Skydragon]

I cannot be sure but I guess the helicopter he used was a "training helicopter" for pilots. It'll probably never be send anywhere anyways. It's only used to train and if noone else needed it (maybe because they don't fly Fridays?) I see no reason why William shouldn't have been allowed to take that flight..

Estimated cost of the jaunt to the IoW for a drinking weekend is I believe £7,500, that is without the cost of a full crew to fly it back to base. If no one else needed it, is akin to saying it is OK for any US air personel to borrow a Black Hawk for a trip because no one else needed it.

I think you see that whole attachment from the wrong POV. Of course he'll be no use as a pilot but that's not the point. He's a member of the RF and as such does PR for different institutions and this stint is PR for the military. I'm sure quite a few young men who saw the pics of Will on his first flight thought "Great! I want that too! I want to be a RAF pilot" and that, IMO, was the whole point. PR for the RAF - the same way they used Harry's Afghanistan mission for good PR for the military in general. Whether that is worth the money spend is up to the MoD to decide. But they must have good reasons to "train" the young royals or they wouldn't have taken them on in the first place

kimebear suggested that in years from now, we would all want William to have had this experience in the forces and I pointed out that if and when William becomes King, the flight training will be old hat. It hasn't shown him how the RAF operates, it has shown him how to fly certain craft (none of the main craft used in a combat situation, apart from the Chinook). With the coverage his training has received here, mainly negative after stunts like this, I would doubt it has encouraged many to sign up. There is already a large turn away number for the RAF, especially those wanting to be pilots. With indulgences such as this, the Royal Family is playing into the hands of those that already think they get too many privileges.

William was apparently not even the pilot, he would have required further extensive training for that, instead he was allowed to take advantage of and divert a training exercise by senoirs living in hope of future awards. IMO.

 

[karla64]

Princes William and Harry will visit the Defence medical services Rehab.. on April 21th...

The Prince of Wales - Monday 21st April 2008

 

[wbenson]

Prince William in kerfuffle over copter ride to stag

Some Britons are furious after learning Prince William used a military helicopter to fly to a stag party, but the British Defence Ministry insists the Friday afternoon jaunt was a "legitimate" training exercise.

The 25-year-old prince took off in a Royal Air Force Chinook helicopter for a three-day party on the Isle of Wight sometime Friday, hours after receiving his wings from his father, Prince Charles.

As part of his 80-minute flight, he also stopped at the Woolwich Army barracks to pick up his brother, Prince Harry.

 

[georgiea]

William - who received his Royal Air Force (RAF) wings on Friday (11.04.08) - completed his RAF training by flying himself and brother Prince Harry to the Isle of Wight by helicopter for the stag party.

William picked Harry up at Woolwich Barracks in South London, with the pair eventually arriving at the Isle of Wight's Bembridge Airport at 4pm.
The trip meant he flew over London and open water, two elements he had to complete as part of his training.

So much for the fun ride at taxpayers' expense.

 

[Al_bina]

... [snipped] With indulgences such as this, the Royal Family is playing into the hands of those that already think they get too many privileges... [snipped]
:

The whole story is rather amusing. Picking up Prince Harry was not the smartest thing to do. Prince William and Prince Harry must travel separately. As for the rest, Prince Charles and Duchess of Cornwall will mend the situation... That is what the father and step-mother are for...

 

[blondie28]

If it was a part of his training why is everyone complaining? Get over it!

 

[Roslyn]

If it was a part of his training why is everyone complaining? Get over it!

Because it looks like a rort. It was just too, too convenient, especially stopping to pick up Harry on the way.

 

[blondie28]

Because it looks like a rort. It was just too, too convenient, especially stopping to pick up Harry on the way.

Well it shows that he can stop and start all over again! He should have passed.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

The whole story is rather amusing. Picking up Prince Harry was not the smartest thing to do. Prince William and Prince Harry must travel separately.

You definately have a point here. Imagine if shomething had happened on that trip? That would have left us with a future queen Beatrice.... gruesome idea.

 

[milla Ca]

IMO opinion the ´helipcopter story´ is shameful for William!

Now the D...Mail takes the story to make Prince Charles indirect guilty for his son´s behaviour...

Shouldn´t a Prince William with 25 be responsible for the nonsense he does?
________________
William, a helicopter - and this risk to the monarchy | the Daily Mail

( from the article
(...) Above all, though, I blame his father. Of course, Prince Charles was probably unaware of this particular jaunt. He cannot be watching his son every hour of the day.
However, he appears not to have convinced him, or Harry, that it would be advisable for leading members of the Royal Family not to be seen living high off the hog.
Perhaps this is because Prince Charles is himself pampered and rather spoilt.(...)

 

[Jo of Palatine]

IMO opinion the ´helipcopter story´ is shameful for William!

I wouldn't go so far. Who knows how this came about? Maybe the trainingsunit really had to be cancelled and they didn't want to change the date of the graduation ceremony, what with Charles and Camilla attending. So the instructors really wanted William to finish the course as fast as possible (after he already got his wings for it! - bad propaganda for the RAF, if it came out...) and told him that this weekend would be convenient, only to find out that Peter Philips' stag party was scheduled for this weekend and so organized this trip to go to the IoW.

I doubt anyone thought it would get this kind of coverage. But it will teach William a lesson: gone are the times when people did neither knew nor judged about how a prince spends his time...