Prince Harry Current Events 14: August-November 2006


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Lillia said:
Poor Harry. He should be thankful that he's in the group that is considered 'valuable' and then he should think of another way to prove himself, since the decision has been made that he will not be allowed to go experience a real live war first-hand as would be the fate of those other fellows.

Yes indeed poor Harry, however your comments show a lack of understanding on your part. He has already proved himself more than most young men with his commitment to his training, no hanging about on street corners for this young man. While it is true that he doesn't know what fighting in a war is like, nobody does until you are involved, he (unlike most members here) will have seen and heard the horrific, graphic recordings of battles and the aftermath, or did you think that they only have news articles to inform them. :rolleyes:

No, the decision has not yet been made, it is being talked about by the army chiefs and all concerned parties and the media are not privy to these talks.

So indeed poor Harry, or do his feelings not count because of who he is?
 
Partying Prince's vodka shots

Party-mad Prince Harry knocked back Strawberry and Vanilla vodka shots as he celebrated the end of a tough military training course.
The royal rebel and 28 mates started the evening with a meal at a posh restaurant before hitting the booze at a rock pub.

HAPPY AS HARRY

Prince Harry knocked back lager and vodka shots as he celebrated the end of a gruelling military training course with a huge group of pals.
The fun-loving royal and his 28-strong entourage started with a restaurant meal before moving on to a rock pub then a nightclub.​
 
MARG said:
Gee it only took three days for these journalists to catch up with this story.:whistling

At least they did catch up at the end... ;)
 
Skydragon said:
Yes indeed poor Harry, however your comments show a lack of understanding on your part. He has already proved himself more than most young men with his commitment to his training, no hanging about on street corners for this young man. While it is true that he doesn't know what fighting in a war is like, nobody does until you are involved, he (unlike most members here) will have seen and heard the horrific, graphic recordings of battles and the aftermath, or did you think that they only have news articles to inform them. :rolleyes:

No, the decision has not yet been made, it is being talked about by the army chiefs and all concerned parties and the media are not privy to these talks.

So indeed poor Harry, or do his feelings not count because of who he is?


Thanks, Skydragon. Harry's talent as a soldier will surely be missed on the frontline due to his enthusiasm and courage. Hopefully, he will come out of this setback and continue to be successful with those who will also be held back from facing the front line, albiet not because of the same reason.:)

Marge said:
If you believe that Prince Harry could have completed Sandhurst and ongoing specialist training and not only fail to understand, but lack the true grit required to do the job then you grossly underestimate the military machine.

I have always felt myself when the press first reported that Harry was due to go to Sandhurst that he was born into the role. However, many in the press didn't believe he would even finish. To me Harry has always shown to me he was a fighter and not necessarily an academic businessman. He's a military man and hopefully will assist behind the scenes. The real surprise is William as he didn't seem to be as athletic as Harry. But, after going through Sandhurst during the winter season and having to march in rain and snow, he diffently turned my head. But, this is about Harry. And, Harry if the true decision is to keep you from the frontline to protect you and/or your men, at least hold your head high and show the soldier you really are (of course, after you sock a reporter in the eye should they taunt you. (but please don't!)).
 
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Do you think there is a chance that he would be sent somewhere else ? I remember at some point there was a suggestion that William would go to Kosovo. Is there anywhere else that they could send him that is a little less dangerous than Afgainistan and Iraq. Peacekeeping perhaps ?
 
Skydragon said:
Yes indeed poor Harry, however your comments show a lack of understanding on your part. He has already proved himself more than most young men with his commitment to his training, no hanging about on street corners for this young man. While it is true that he doesn't know what fighting in a war is like, nobody does until you are involved, he (unlike most members here) will have seen and heard the horrific, graphic recordings of battles and the aftermath, or did you think that they only have news articles to inform them. :rolleyes:

No, the decision has not yet been made, it is being talked about by the army chiefs and all concerned parties and the media are not privy to these talks.

So indeed poor Harry, or do his feelings not count because of who he is?

I would guess he has gotten over the sadness of not being able to go do battle in Afganistan. But then again, may he has not.

Sure, I've never said that he did not have any feelings, and I am sure he is actually quite upset and very deeply hurt that he is not able to go forward into Afganistan and fight in the war with the other soldiers. I do understand it all too well. But unfortunately, dodging gunfire, avoiding landmines and battling insurgencies seems to be a task that someone else will have to do. And unfortunately it is really too bad that Harry will not have his own cache of war stories to tell (so far).

And yes, he is probably the valiant, dashing, brave, enthusiastic and courageoeous soldier. I have no doubt that he is all of those things. And the most intelligent of all, yes, probably top of his class. I still think that he's too sheltered to handle any kind of hot spot like Afganistan, and I still think that he can make himself useful in the war effort in other ways (similar to the visits that Blair has made to cheer the troops and uplift morale) and if he really really wants to go fight on the front lines (I doubt it will ever happen) then maybe someone can arrange for a short stint somewhere so he can have the 'going to war' experience and then feel better about it. But I do believe it would only be a short stay because he is a prince after all, regardless of his feelings about it that is the reality. It's truly a double-edged sword for him. He wants to fight and experience a real live war firsthand, but others will not let him. I understand the disappointment and sadness that he might feel completely. It is totally unfair that these decisions have already been made about his life without his input, but again those are the breaks, as some might say.

(please correct me if I am wrong) Going to Sandhurst is a sort of a tradition for some royals and in a dangerous war situation like Afganistan and Iraq (I know, nobody ever said that he wanted to go to Iraq), as it's been stated, the decision was made about what he would be doing afterwards long ago. Kosovo is a good suggestion, if I'm not mistaken they're not at war, but in some phase of reconstruction. He can spend some time in a former war zone.

And as far as hanging on the corner, if he were doing something like that the media would tell about it right away (#92 ), so everyone would know right away, just like everything else since he has a high profile.
 
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Prince Harry current events 11: August 2006-

Lillia said:
I would guess he has gotten over the sadness of not being able to go do battle in Afganistan. But then again, may he has not.

Sure, I've never said that he did not have any feelings, and I am sure he is actually quite upset and very deeply hurt that he is not able to go forward into Afganistan and fight in the war with the other soldiers. I do understand it all too well. But unfortunately, dodging gunfire, avoiding landmines and battling insurgencies seems to be a task that someone else will have to do. And unfortunately it is really too bad that Harry will not have his own cache of war stories to tell (so far).

And yes, he is probably the valiant, dashing, brave, enthusiastic and courageoeous soldier. I have no doubt that he is all of those things. And the most intelligent of all, yes, probably top of his class. I still think that he's too sheltered to handle any kind of hot spot like Afganistan, and I still think that he can make himself useful in the war effort in other ways (similar to the visits that Blair has made to cheer the troops and uplift morale) and if he really really wants to go fight on the front lines (I doubt it will ever happen) then maybe someone can arrange for a short stint somewhere so he can have the 'going to war' experience and then feel better about it. But I do believe it would only be a short stay because he is a prince after all, regardless of his feelings about it that is the reality. It's truly a double-edged sword for him. He wants to fight and experience a real live war firsthand, but others will not let him. I understand the disappointment and sadness that he might feel completely. It is totally unfair that these decisions have already been made about his life without his input, but again those are the breaks, as some might say.
Harry should serve he is a trained Army Officer after all.

(please correct me if I am wrong) Going to Sandhurst is a sort of a tradition for some royals and in a dangerous war situation like Afganistan and Iraq (I know, nobody ever said that he wanted to go to Iraq), as it's been stated, the decision was made about what he would be doing afterwards long ago. Kosovo is a good suggestion, if I'm not mistaken they're not at war, but in some phase of reconstruction. He can spend some time in a former war zone.
The Royal Navy is the tradition not the Army. Heis a trained Army officer and a Troop Leader.
And as far as hanging on the corner, if he were doing something like that the media would tell about it right away (#92 ), so everyone would know right away, just like everything else since he has a high profile.


The MoD have two choices - either admit they've made a complete mess of it and let Harry resign his commission, or, let him go to Afghanistan to serve beside his mates . . . and keep a damned close eye on him. Just like the Jocks looked after Basra Bob. Of course, the same problem is going to crop up again if Wills passes out at Sandhurst. And let's face it, what suicidal commanding officer is going to fail him?
The armed forces can't be a dumping ground for a couple of diddies needing a kid-on career.​



Those men and women serving - and those who have already given their lives - in war zones across the world deserve a lot more respect than that.​
That is the whole point as it is right now Prince Harry it a trained and able Officer or he will be by the time he would be deployed he will be.​
 
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Lillia said:
And unfortunately it is really too bad that Harry will not have his own cache of war stories to tell (so far).
I still think that he's too sheltered to handle any kind of hot spot like Afganistan, and I still think that he can make himself useful in the war effort in other ways (similar to the visits that Blair has made to cheer the troops and uplift morale)
It is totally unfair that these decisions have already been made about his life without his input, but again those are the breaks, as some might say.
as it's been stated, the decision was made about what he would be doing afterwards long ago.

Most 'troops' couldn't care less about some high profile person coming to see them, a famous and popular filmstar - yes, politicians, prince and princesses - No. All that means for them is being ordered to look pleased and pose for photos.:rolleyes:

Harry, like many of the country set is more able to shoot living things, gut them etc, than your normal city born soldier and anyone who has survived a boarding school is far from having lived a sheltered life. Add to that the training you receive at Sandhurst, lovely things like forced marches, crawling about in the mud, surviving on what you can pick, catch, kill and cook, (even if it is only for a few days). :lol:

I would be interested in where you get your information that "these decisions have already been made about his life, without his input". I have been unable to find any statement released by CH, BP or the MOD. The only information I have been able to find, are the 'news' articles.

Lets leave the decision making to his Commanders and his family and wait for an official annoucement before writing him off!
kpusa1981 said:
The MoD have two choices - either admit they've made a complete mess of it.

What the Record should realise is that the MOD never admit to mistakes, just a change in strategy or circumstances. :lol:
 
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Skydragon said:
Most 'troops' couldn't care less about some high profile person coming to see them, a famous and popular filmstar - yes, politicians, prince and princesses - No. All that means for them is being ordered to look pleased and pose for photos.:rolleyes:
I heartily agree.:cool:
Skydragon said:
Lets leave the decision making to his Commanders and his family and wait for an official annoucement before writing him off!
After all this angst it sounds like a good idea to me.:flowers:
 
Lillia said:
He's too sheltered, and I think he'd be in way over his head. He'd never even be allowed to do anything but basically file papers and make reports anyway. I have to say honestly I don't feel sorry for him. I'm sure he'll get over it in time.

One should not forget that the Windsors are still Hanoverans and Saxe-Coburg-Gothas plus Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Gluecksburgs when it comes to their descend. All three German Houses were under the earliest families in Germany (in the early middle ages) whose Head had a right to the title "Herzog". This title is the second highest German title after king/emperor (König/Kaiser) but while king/emperor describe a person who rules, so a more "politician" position, the "Herzog" title comes from the fact that this person was the active leader of his troups in war, the active defender of his realm. The king/emperor depended on his "Herzöge" to protect the country.
The word Herzog means the one who "her zog" - the leader who "rides or walks in front of" the troups (direct translation of "her zog"). The same meaning is attached as well to the English "duke" which means the same in position of command and comes from Latin dux - the leader.

There is a slight difference though as the Latin does not imply the actual position the leader has during the battle (he could be commanding from behind the lines) while the Herzog is up front.

So from his whole ancestry for more than 1000 years (general The duke of Marlborough from Diana's side comes to mind as well) prince Harry must have the soldiering and being active in the line of fire in his blood - if he has anything in his blood at all.
If the honourable members of this forum accept that Harry is a Royal due to his ancestry, they must accept IMHO as well that fighting and leading men into battle is in his blood as well. You can't have one without the other.

Thus I feel for the prince who is deprived of the position he worked hard for during his military training because he is the descendant of countless commanding soldiers...

But of course I see that the thought that his troup might be a special target because of his mere posting to this troup is one who has to be considered. But acting on it IMHO is inviting irrational decisions - after all any militarian leader is a target due to his elevated position and the value he has within the chain of command. So I'd post prince Harry with the general who is in command (you have to protect this officer anyway!) - just like the prince of Orange was an staff officer and an ordinance for the duke of Wellington on fighting Napoleon and at the battle of Waterloo.
 
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Oppie said:
Do you think there is a chance that he would be sent somewhere else ? I remember at some point there was a suggestion that William would go to Kosovo. Is there anywhere else that they could send him that is a little less dangerous than Afgainistan and Iraq. Peacekeeping perhaps ?

Don't think they want him to meet a nurse in the Kosova like Louis of Luxembourg did... ;)
 
Shame on his advisors and military leadership that did not make it clear to him prior to starting his military career that he would have to stay home while his class mates did their service to their country. It is probably true that in war his head would be a trophy for the enemy and he would bring unwanted attention to his troop. Poor planning on everyones part from the beginning - or perhaps they did not think he would finish the training and consequently make the issue irrelevant.
 
Skydragon said:
Harry completes training to become troop leader

Prince Harry has become an Armoured Reconnaissance Troop Leader after finishing his latest round of training.
The royal Army officer spent four and a half months learning the ins and outs of Scimitar tanks and armoured tactics.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23370559-details/Harry+completes+training+to+become+troop+leader/article.do

For me this is sad, very sad. I'm reminded of the prince Eugene of Savoy who became the greatest military leader of his time on sucessfully keeping the "infidels" out of Europe. Prince Eugene was a "spare", too and - as his family were members of the court of Louis XIV. of France he was destined to be a priest - thus the king called him "the little abbé of Savoy". Noone took his wish to become a soldier seriously, so he changed sides and became the emperor of Germyn's most trusted military leader. Today his "Belvedere"-palais and gardens are one of the most beautiful sights of Vienna. And of course he was the hero of Belgrad, saving Christian Europe from the Turkish Invasion.

Why is it so incomprehensible that prince Harry could be one day a Nato general from Britain? Why is it so unbelievable that a relative of admiral prince Rupert of the Palatinate (brother to electress Sophie and a son of princess Elizabeth Stuart) and "butcher Cumberland", that a descendent of William the Conqueror and Edward Plantagenet could be a sucessful military commander?
If the prince don't mind giving his life for his grandmother's kingdom, why should anyone else?
 
Taken from the article, as you can see, nobody has actually said he can't go

'But reports have suggested that the Army is reluctant to send Harry, second in line to the throne, into a war zone'. They are guessing. :rolleyes:

No decision has been made on future deployments, but the Ministry of Defence admitted there could be situations where it could be too dangerous for Harry to serve. - No secrets there then. :rolleyes:

"The intention is that he will undertake the fullest range of deployment but on occasion there may be some circumstances in which his overt presence might attract additional attention that could lead to an exponential rise in the risk to those he commands," a MoD spokesman said. :cool:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23370559-details/Harry+completes+training+to+become+troop+leader/article.do
 
Skydragon said:
Taken from the article, as you can see, nobody has actually said he can't go

'But reports have suggested that the Army is reluctant to send Harry, second in line to the throne, into a war zone'. They are guessing. :rolleyes:

No decision has been made on future deployments, but the Ministry of Defence admitted there could be situations where it could be too dangerous for Harry to serve. - No secrets there then. :rolleyes:

"The intention is that he will undertake the fullest range of deployment but on occasion there may be some circumstances in which his overt presence might attract additional attention that could lead to an exponential rise in the risk to those he commands," a MoD spokesman said. :cool:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23370559-details/Harry+completes+training+to+become+troop+leader/article.do

Skydragon, thank you very much for pointing this out. Of course you're right and I sincerely hope that no one's hopes for a success in his chosen profession are dowsed because of his family's background. :flowers:
 
There is a recent precedent for the spare serving in a war zone. Prince Andrew served aboard the HMS Invincible in the Falklands War, before William was born. According to Wikipedia, Queen insisted he stay with his ship when the Government was worried about him being killed in action. He served in situations where there was a very real risk of injury or death. One of the things he did was act as Exocet missile decoy, which sounds fairly risky to me.

What is the difference? I am inclined to suspect it might be more the fear of Harry being taken hostage than being killed in action that has people wary of him serving in a war zone.

What do others think?
 
I heard the same as well about Prince Andrew. I know that others will vehemently disagree, but I still think that Harry should go into a former hot spot, like Kosovo, Bosnia or the Balkans. That is my own opinion. Maybe he will surprise everyone (again) and find a way to get to Afganistan or Iraq and get the tag 'war hero' pinned onto him. If he does, then good for him that's great.

I know he did all the training and it has been reported that he is super-anxious to participate, but just like this so called 'ban' has been called a suggestion (#106), it is likely any hoopla about Harry's so-called sadness over it could also be a suggestion from the media or wherever. It makes me wonder though if any idea that he might not be allowed to go into an actual war zone to do battle would be a total surprise to him. None of that makes a difference if his regimine is not called up.

I would agree that like any family, his own family would be concerned that something would happen to him over there.
 
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Jo of Palatine said:
One should not forget that the Windsors are still Hanoverans and Saxe-Coburg-Gothas plus Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Gluecksburgs when it comes to their descend. All three German Houses were under the earliest families in Germany (in the early middle ages) whose Head had a right to the title "Herzog". This title is the second highest German title after king/emperor (König/Kaiser) but while king/emperor describe a person who rules, so a more "politician" position, the "Herzog" title comes from the fact that this person was the active leader of his troups in war, the active defender of his realm. The king/emperor depended on his "Herzöge" to protect the country.
The word Herzog means the one who "her zog" - the leader who "rides or walks in front of" the troups (direct translation of "her zog"). The same meaning is attached as well to the English "duke" which means the same in position of command and comes from Latin dux - the leader.

There is a slight difference though as the Latin does not imply the actual position the leader has during the battle (he could be commanding from behind the lines) while the Herzog is up front.

So from his whole ancestry for more than 1000 years (general The duke of Marlborough from Diana's side comes to mind as well) prince Harry must have the soldiering and being active in the line of fire in his blood - if he has anything in his blood at all.
If the honourable members of this forum accept that Harry is a Royal due to his ancestry, they must accept IMHO as well that fighting and leading men into battle is in his blood as well. You can't have one without the other.

Thus I feel for the prince who is deprived of the position he worked hard for during his military training because he is the descendant of countless commanding soldiers...

But of course I see that the thought that his troup might be a special target because of his mere posting to this troup is one who has to be considered. But acting on it IMHO is inviting irrational decisions - after all any militarian leader is a target due to his elevated position and the value he has within the chain of command. So I'd post prince Harry with the general who is in command (you have to protect this officer anyway!) - just like the prince of Orange was an staff officer and an ordinance for the duke of Wellington on fighting Napoleon and at the battle of Waterloo.

Good information. Thanks for sharing that Jo:flowers:
 
Roslyn said:
There is a recent precedent for the spare serving in a war zone. Prince Andrew served aboard the HMS Invincible in the Falklands War, before William was born. According to Wikipedia, Queen insisted he stay with his ship when the Government was worried about him being killed in action. He served in situations where there was a very real risk of injury or death. One of the things he did was act as Exocet missile decoy, which sounds fairly risky to me.

What is the difference? I am inclined to suspect it might be more the fear of Harry being taken hostage than being killed in action that has people wary of him serving in a war zone.

What do others think?

Well, for one thing, Andrew was not third in-line to the throne at the time, which makes quite a difference.
 
Well, for one thing, Andrew was not third in-line to the throne at the time, which makes quite a difference.

He was second/third in line (depending if you count William who was born one week after the war ended) the war was between March-June 1982

Don't think they want him to meet a nurse in the Kosova like Louis of Luxembourg did... ;)

:ROFLMAO:
 
NOOOOO lol not a good idea Marry first then child espeially with him !
 
Lillia said:
I heard the same as well about Prince Andrew. I know that others will vehemently disagree, but I still think that Harry should go into a former hot spot, like Kosovo, Bosnia or the Balkans. That is my own opinion. Maybe he will surprise everyone (again) and find a way to get to Afganistan or Iraq and get the tag 'war hero' pinned onto him. If he does, then good for him that's great...

I agree with you Lillia. He should be able to be sent to those areas without the press getting knowledge of that.

...I would agree that like any family, his own family would be concerned that something would happen to him over there.

My sentiments as well.:)
 
Prince Harry current events 11: August 2006-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6043912.stm
Prince Harry is set to command about a dozen soldiers after completing his latest round of training.
I thought that you may not have this.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006470655,00.html
Harry wants Chelsy in UK
PRINCE Harry has jetted 6,000 miles to beg girlfriend Chelsy Davy to come and live in England.
The besotted Royal arrived in South Africa yesterday to attend her 21st birthday party.





http://www.wireimage.com/GalleryListing.asp?navtyp=gls=1=16==238996&nbc1=1


HRH Prince Harry arrives in Cape Town, South Africa, October 12, 2006, to attend his...
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]USA AND JAPAN ONLY[/FONT]

0,,2006471418,00.jpg


Mystery ... Harry wears Parachute Regiment T-shirt only qualified Paras are allowed to.

Skydragon is he really not allowed to wear this T-shirt? Then why is he? Could he have been doing the Troop Leader and the Para training at the same time or dose this mean that he will be doing the training early next year?
 
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I wish Prince Harry well and wish him good luck with his quest to win Chelsy over to London. I think Chelsy must have a lot of inner strength and determination to have dealt with the robbery situation so well, and she may be exactly what Prince Harry needs! :flowers:
 
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