Marius Borg Høiby News & Current Events Part 1: December 2023 -

[Tatiana Maria]

I'm not well versed in restraining orders and I think the explanations are a little confusing.
The third victim's lawyers says the victim did not want a restraining order, but at the same time she says that the victim had a restraining order issued on advise from her. And the police say that a restraining order was issued because the victim wish that.

From my reading of the articles, the victim's lawyer didn't say the victim did not want the restraining order (though she did say the victim requested it on her (the lawyer's) advice, which corresponds with your theory that the lawyer had to coax the victim), but the lawyer did say that the victim is not the one who reported Marius Borg Høiby for "reckless behavior". However, the report of "reckless behavior" was the basis for the restraining order. It seems it was possible for the victim to request a restraining order on the basis of what somebody else reported to the police about Marius's behavior. (But who was the third party who reported him? The victim's family member?)

Sincerely he should be jailed... But I believe if he got jailed, the image of the Norwegian monarchy would be shattered

At this point, I don't think Marius being jailed would be harmful to the monarchy's image, and potentially would even improve it. It could reassure the public that the royals (technically an ex-royal in this case) cannot rely on the monarchy's powers to escape justice and will be treated equally to any other citizen.

It might even benefit Marius's own image. As Norwegian prisons are known to emphasize rehabilitation and reintegration, a stint in jail may help him to be believed if, afterwards, he says he has reformed.

The third victim has according to Se og Hør still pain in her throat and is still on sick leave. People close to the woman can also state that she has visual disturbances and struggles with "tunnel vision" as a result of the violent incident.
Se og Hør has asked the woman's lawyer Mette Yvonne Larsen if she can say anything about how her client is doing, and if the police have finished questioning her. She hasn't responded.

Eksen fortsatt sykmeldt

Marius Borg Bøibys eks har fortsatt smerter i halsen, har synsforstyrrelser og sliter med tunnelsyn etter voldshendelsen.

www.seher.no

Aside from the psychological abusiveness, isn't this kind of severe strangulation quite physically dangerous? I am no medical expert, but wouldn't it have been quite possible to accidentally kill or cause brain injury (ETA: and seemingly did, given her vision problems) to his girlfriend in that manner even if that was not the intention?

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Since these events have come to light I have made an effort to stay as little active on the conversation as possible but have kept an eye on the conversation and the unfolding of the events. This is because I am a former victim of DV so I can be less objective. Since my personal experience, about a decade ago, I have been really involved in this area trying to educate myself as much as possible as help wherever I can. This has lead me to me having a certain amount of knowledge on the topic of DV so my opinion on this particular case has been pretty much formed from the begining. But I wanted to hold on expessing an opinion before more details were revealed as each case can have something different than others.
At this point the things for me are pretty clear and my opinion is this:
- I belive the abuse has been taking place for some time making the girl really tied to Marius. The initial report was not made by her but by some friend , she has gone with him to pick up her things, after the indicent was reported, the restraining order was not her idea (if I am understanding correctly). Clearly she is still attached to him and is not able to make the best decisions for her, someone else has to make those.
- I do believe Marius has substance abuse issues, I do not believe he has mental issues. The mental issue claim is a cop out in a big majority of DV cases.
- The abuser's family usually suffers to but, in the majority of the cases, we are talking about regular families, that do not have acces to the resources needed to stop the abuser. This is not a regular family. This is a family that have access to all the resources needed so either they did not care or do not think that this is a big issue.

Once again, this is just my opinion, I do not claim any of these to be the truth of this case. I trust that the investigation will end up clearing everything for everyone.
I dow however wanted to share my opinion as from my point of view only by having as many DV victims speaking up and sharing experiences is how we as a society can take a step forward to stoping DV.

@ Moderators, if the post is somewhat stepping outside of the rules for the accepted posts, please feel free to delete

Royal Observer, thanks so much for sharing your observations. I can certainly understand how this case is triggering for you, and I am so sorry that you experienced DV in the past; it sounds like you are no longer in that situation and are experiencing recovery.

I wanted to add to your observations about how this situation with Marius has been going on for some time and how difficult it is for this young woman (or any woman) to leave the abuser. By the time physical violence begins in this type of relationship, there has been a power imbalance for quite some time, demeaning/putting down and other forms of psychological abuse long before the physical abuse begins. Women start to believe they are nothing without the abuser as he frequently reminds her. Then the “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, it will never happen again” after the violence and the “charm and attentiveness” that first drew her to him shows up for awhile - until the next time it gets violent. So very complex and difficult to get out of a relationship like this without a lot of help and support.

IMHO Marius needs detox, tough love, and therapy to get at the root of his anger so that he can hopefully change his behavior to have a healthy relationship in time. Some incarceration with the above would certainly get his (and his parents’) attention, certainly make his siblings (and others in similar situations) think hard and make it clear that the RF or family adjacent are not above the law.

Royal Observer, you are fairly new, so welcome to the forum and thanks for posting! Take good care

 

[Royalty Observer]

Royal Observer, thanks so much for sharing your observations. I can certainly understand how this case is triggering for you, and I am so sorry that you experienced DV in the past; it sounds like you are no longer in that situation and are experiencing recovery.

I wanted to add to your observations about how this situation with Marius has been going on for some time and how difficult it is for this young woman (or any woman) to leave the abuser. By the time physical violence begins in this type of relationship, there has been a power imbalance for quite some time, demeaning/putting down and other forms of psychological abuse long before the physical abuse begins. Women start to believe they are nothing without the abuser as he frequently reminds her. Then the “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, it will never happen again” after the violence and the “charm and attentiveness” that first drew her to him shows up for awhile - until the next time it gets violent. So very complex and difficult to get out of a relationship like this without a lot of help and support.

IMHO Marius needs detox, tough love, and therapy to get at the root of his anger so that he can hopefully change his behavior to have a healthy relationship in time. Some incarceration with the above would certainly get his (and his parents’) attention, certainly make his siblings (and others in similar situations) think hard and make it clear that the RF or family adjacent are not above the law.

Royal Observer, you are fairly new, so welcome to the forum and thanks for posting! Take good care

Thank you for your kind wishes, Royalist! For me the experience is now in the past but I will always share my experience as I know that many people do not and maybe encourage them to do so!

 

[Muhler]

From my reading of the articles, the victim's lawyer didn't say the victim did not want the restraining order (though she did say the victim requested it on her (the lawyer's) advice, which corresponds with your theory that the lawyer had to coax the victim), but the lawyer did say that the victim is not the one who reported Marius Borg Høiby for "reckless behavior". However, the report of "reckless behavior" was the basis for the restraining order. It seems it was possible for the victim to request a restraining order on the basis of what somebody else reported to the police about Marius's behavior. (But who was the third party who reported him? The victim's family member?)



At this point, I don't think Marius being jailed would be harmful to the monarchy's image, and potentially would even improve it. It could reassure the public that the royals (technically an ex-royal in this case) cannot rely on the monarchy's powers to escape justice and will be treated equally to any other citizen.

It might even benefit Marius's own image. As Norwegian prisons are known to emphasize rehabilitation and reintegration, a stint in jail may help him to be believed if, afterwards, he says he has reformed.



Aside from the psychological abusiveness, isn't this kind of severe strangulation quite physically dangerous? I am no medical expert, but wouldn't it have been quite possible to accidentally kill or cause brain injury (ETA: and seemingly did, given her vision problems) to his girlfriend in that manner even if that was not the intention?

Indeed, the who did what and when is a little confusing here.

I too believe Marius should go to prison (with the usual caveat of proven guilty and all that.). Both in order for justice being served in the eyes of the public, also because Marius genuinely deserves it and thirdly because in prison he can't run away from any treatment he gets.
What will truly harm the NRF now, is if Marius is seen getting away or at least getting away lightly.

Any form of strangulation is potentially dangerous.
It's not just a question of preventing oxygen to the lungs it's also about damage to the windpipe, the major blood-vessels, the vertebrae, the trachea and if the tongue bone is snapped it's lights out. Any form of strangulation from the point of near unconsciousness is acutely dangerous.
- And keep in mind that Marius, a young and strong man, did this in a fit of rage. He had no control, no awareness.
IMO this third victim had every reason to fear for her life.

And if there are clear strangulation marks on her neck as well a burst blood-vessels in her eyes (an indication of acute danger), then I wonder if the charge won't go at least up one notch. - The ultimate charge of course being attempted murder. But I don't think that will be the case though.

 

[Snowangel]

Since these events have come to light I have made an effort to stay as little active on the conversation as possible but have kept an eye on the conversation and the unfolding of the events. This is because I am a former victim of DV so I can be less objective. Since my personal experience, about a decade ago, I have been really involved in this area trying to educate myself as much as possible as help wherever I can. This has lead me to me having a certain amount of knowledge on the topic of DV so my opinion on this particular case has been pretty much formed from the begining. But I wanted to hold on expessing an opinion before more details were revealed as each case can have something different than others.
At this point the things for me are pretty clear and my opinion is this:
- I belive the abuse has been taking place for some time making the girl really tied to Marius. The initial report was not made by her but by some friend , she has gone with him to pick up her things, after the indicent was reported, the restraining order was not her idea (if I am understanding correctly). Clearly she is still attached to him and is not able to make the best decisions for her, someone else has to make those.
- I do believe Marius has substance abuse issues, I do not believe he has mental issues. The mental issue claim is a cop out in a big majority of DV cases.
- The abuser's family usually suffers to but, in the majority of the cases, we are talking about regular families, that do not have acces to the resources needed to stop the abuser. This is not a regular family. This is a family that have access to all the resources needed so either they did not care or do not think that this is a big issue.

Once again, this is just my opinion, I do not claim any of these to be the truth of this case. I trust that the investigation will end up clearing everything for everyone.
I dow however wanted to share my opinion as from my point of view only by having as many DV victims speaking up and sharing experiences is how we as a society can take a step forward to stoping DV.

@ Moderators, if the post is somewhat stepping outside of the rules for the accepted posts, please feel free to delete

Hi royalty observer, I am so sorry you have experienced DV

 

[LadyFinn]

It seems that Marius was yesterday still in Italy. At this Aftenposten's article (it's a paywall article but I could read it when put it to Google translator).

On 28 August, Marius traveled to Italy. He is still not available for further questioning by the police, as a result of his travel activities. Snekkestad's lawyer Petter Grødem criticizes the trip to Italy:
- My client thinks that this case has gone on for a very long time now, and she strongly wants the case to move forward. (..)

Bistandsadvokat kritisk til Marius Borg Høibys Italia-tur: – Det er klart jeg reagerer

Marius Borg Høiby er i Italia på ubestemt tid. – Min klient synes denne saken har vart veldig lenge nå, og hun ønsker sterkt at saken kommer videre.

www.aftenposten.no

 

[Alondra]

Indeed, the who did what and when is a little confusing here.

I too believe Marius should go to prison (with the usual caveat of proven guilty and all that.). Both in order for justice being served in the eyes of the public, also because Marius genuinely deserves it and thirdly because in prison he can't run away from any treatment he gets.
What will truly harm the NRF now, is if Marius is seen getting away or at least getting away lightly.

Any form of strangulation is potentially dangerous.
It's not just a question of preventing oxygen to the lungs it's also about damage to the windpipe, the major blood-vessels, the vertebrae, the trachea and if the tongue bone is snapped it's lights out. Any form of strangulation from the point of near unconsciousness is acutely dangerous.
- And keep in mind that Marius, a young and strong man, did this in a fit of rage. He had no control, no awareness.
IMO this third victim had every reason to fear for her life.

And if there are clear strangulation marks on her neck as well a burst blood-vessels in her eyes (an indication of acute danger), then I wonder if the charge won't go at least up one notch. - The ultimate charge of course being attempted murder. But I don't think that will be the case though.

My problem with Marius going to prison is whether the DV charges are serious enough to send him to jail.

I admit I have no idea about Norwegian law and are applying Spanish law to him. In Spain, criminal convictions for DV need a sentence of more than 2 years or a previous criminal record, to do jail time.

Even if Marius doesn't go to jail, a criminal record against him will be poison and difficult to navigate for the Royal House.

 

[Muhler]

My problem with Marius going to prison is whether the DV charges are serious enough to send him to jail.

I admit I have no idea about Norwegian law and are applying Spanish law to him. In Spain, criminal convictions for DV need a sentence of more than 2 years or a previous criminal record, to do jail time.

Even if Marius doesn't go to jail, a criminal record against him will be poison and difficult to navigate for the Royal House.

Can't say for certain about Norwegian legislation, but I assume it's pretty similar for Scandinavia.
There is no distinct domestic abuse paragraph. Violence is violence.
And violence (vold) is considered a serious matter, so in Scandinavia you are more likely to actually end up doing time for violence than in many (most?) other countries. In this category is any kind of physical violation of your person.
That is something foreign hooligans have discovered to their surprise. A brawl that elsewhere would at worst have led to a fine for disturbance of the peace or something like that, is likely to end up becoming an extended stay, when in Scandinavia.
The levels of charges vary from ordinary violence - which is a minor brawl, slapping or spitting at someone or even pushing someone - and that's what Marius has been charged with so far. - And here you may get a suspended sentence, community service or up to a few months in prison.

Then comes more serious violence, (Grov vold in Danish, because Danish and Norwegian words and terms are similar) which is beating up someone, using a weapon to hit someone or violence resulting in the victim needing a degree of treatment, say a fracture. Here you can expect to serve up to a year or two in prison.
Under that category is also particular severe violence (grov vold under særligt skærpende omstændigheder) (I'm not familiar with the technical terms in English, but I think you can follow me) where the victim ends up needing a very long treatment or is left more or less invalid. With the most serious charge added to this being attempted murder or rather attempted killing. (drabsforsøg) I.e. where you continue the violence beyond the point where by any definition the victim's life is in danger or where the aim may have been to actually kill someone as a result of the violence used. Or where you stab someone in the torso. - Here you can expect to serve a number of years in prison.
Above that comes murder. (Drab). - And they are divided into accidental murder, (uagtsomt manddrab) where the attacker clearly had no intention of killing someone. Say a push, where the victim fall and hits his head against something. And depending on the circumstances that goes from a fine to a number of years in prison.
The next subdivision being killing as a result of violence (vold med døden til følge), which can be a beating so severe that the victim dies. - That's guaranteed longer prison sentence, unless in very clear self-defense.

Finally comes murder. (mord.) That is an attack so serious that you must expect that the victim can die or is likely to die.
In severe cases it's premeditated murder (overlagt mord) where the whole purpose of the attack was to kill the victim. - In this category we are talking up to life in prison, or an indefinite sentence in a secure institution, which can last the rest of the life as well.

- With may layman eyes, and having next to no personal experience with the criminal courts I'd say that if it is true that Marius hit the third victim tens of times in the head and put his hands around her neck 5 times, squeezing until she couldn't breathe, that moves the whole thing up from ordinary violence to more serious violence and that's prison. Regardless of prior criminal record or not.
And if her life was considered in some danger as a result of Marius strangling her, not once but five times, then IMO it's in the extra severe category of violence. And that's a guaranteed prison sentence.

 

[Alondra]

Can't say for certain about Norwegian legislation, but I assume it's pretty similar for Scandinavia.
There is no distinct domestic abuse paragraph. Violence is violence.
And violence (vold) is considered a serious matter, so in Scandinavia you are more likely to actually end up doing time for violence than in many (most?) other countries. In this category is any kind of physical violation of your person.
That is something foreign hooligans have discovered to their surprise. A brawl that elsewhere would at worst have led to a fine for disturbance of the peace or something like that, is likely to end up becoming an extended stay, when in Scandinavia.
The levels of charges vary from ordinary violence - which is a minor brawl, slapping or spitting at someone or even pushing someone - and that's what Marius has been charged with so far. - And here you may get a suspended sentence, community service or up to a few months in prison.

Then comes more serious violence, (Grov vold in Danish, because Danish and Norwegian words and terms are similar) which is beating up someone, using a weapon to hit someone or violence resulting in the victim needing a degree of treatment, say a fracture. Here you can expect to serve up to a year or two in prison.
Under that category is also particular severe violence (grov vold under særligt skærpende omstændigheder) (I'm not familiar with the technical terms in English, but I think you can follow me) where the victim ends up needing a very long treatment or is left more or less invalid. With the most serious charge added to this being attempted murder or rather attempted killing. (drabsforsøg) I.e. where you continue the violence beyond the point where by any definition the victim's life is in danger or where the aim may have been to actually kill someone as a result of the violence used. Or where you stab someone in the torso. - Here you can expect to serve a number of years in prison.
Above that comes murder. (Drab). - And they are divided into accidental murder, (uagtsomt manddrab) where the attacker clearly had no intention of killing someone. Say a push, where the victim fall and hits his head against something. And depending on the circumstances that goes from a fine to a number of years in prison.
The next subdivision being killing as a result of violence (vold med døden til følge), which can be a beating so severe that the victim dies. - That's guaranteed longer prison sentence, unless in very clear self-defense.

Finally comes murder. (mord.) That is an attack so serious that you must expect that the victim can die or is likely to die.
In severe cases it's premeditated murder (overlagt mord) where the whole purpose of the attack was to kill the victim. - In this category we are talking up to life in prison, or an indefinite sentence in a secure institution, which can last the rest of the life as well.

- With may layman eyes, and having next to no personal experience with the criminal courts I'd say that if it is true that Marius hit the third victim tens of times in the head and put his hands around her neck 5 times, squeezing until she couldn't breathe, that moves the whole thing up from ordinary violence to more serious violence and that's prison. Regardless of prior criminal record or not.
And if her life was considered in some danger as a result of Marius strangling her, not once but five times, then IMO it's in the extra severe category of violence. And that's a guaranteed prison sentence.

Thank you for your post.

One issue I made a mistake in my previous post was linking DV to the possibility of going to jail in Spain. DV is just another criminal charge in Spain, like drugs, theft or other type of antisocial behaviour causing harm for which a person can be sentenced for more than 2 years

Aside this, I need to do some errands now but I will come back to your post. I really want to understand the info you've given me.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Since these events have come to light I have made an effort to stay as little active on the conversation as possible but have kept an eye on the conversation and the unfolding of the events. This is because I am a former victim of DV so I can be less objective. Since my personal experience, about a decade ago, I have been really involved in this area trying to educate myself as much as possible as help wherever I can. This has lead me to me having a certain amount of knowledge on the topic of DV so my opinion on this particular case has been pretty much formed from the begining. But I wanted to hold on expessing an opinion before more details were revealed as each case can have something different than others.
At this point the things for me are pretty clear and my opinion is this:
- I belive the abuse has been taking place for some time making the girl really tied to Marius. The initial report was not made by her but by some friend , she has gone with him to pick up her things, after the indicent was reported, the restraining order was not her idea (if I am understanding correctly). Clearly she is still attached to him and is not able to make the best decisions for her, someone else has to make those.
- I do believe Marius has substance abuse issues, I do not believe he has mental issues. The mental issue claim is a cop out in a big majority of DV cases.
- The abuser's family usually suffers to but, in the majority of the cases, we are talking about regular families, that do not have acces to the resources needed to stop the abuser. This is not a regular family. This is a family that have access to all the resources needed so either they did not care or do not think that this is a big issue.

Once again, this is just my opinion, I do not claim any of these to be the truth of this case. I trust that the investigation will end up clearing everything for everyone.
I dow however wanted to share my opinion as from my point of view only by having as many DV victims speaking up and sharing experiences is how we as a society can take a step forward to stoping DV.

@ Moderators, if the post is somewhat stepping outside of the rules for the accepted posts, please feel free to delete

I think you have written a good and insightful post, based on your own experience - and i am really sad that you have been through such awful things… You have all my sympathies for that..

Everything in this case is a bit speculative right now as we only knows what has been said and written in the media.. And in the bigger picture, that’s probably far from everything…

I think most will agree that Marius obviously has substance abuse issues…. And without knowing anything about Marius medical journal’s - my view is that mental issues is obviously a hot topic today when more and more people talks openly about it… That’s great in many ways, but it also makes it easier to ”throw around” to get more sympaties, or in this case as i personally suspect in an attempt to get a less harsh sentence - without actually having been professionally diagnosed with anything that would motivate a less harsh sentence…

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I admit I have no idea about Norwegian law and are applying Spanish law to him

Can't say for certain about Norwegian legislation, but I assume it's pretty similar for Scandinavia.

Muhler and Alondra, you can consult the Norwegian laws on violent offenses in Chapter 25 of the Penal Code.

In Norwegian:

Lov om straff (straffeloven) - Kapittel 25. Voldslovbrudd mv. - Lovdata

Kapittel 25. Voldslovbrudd mv.

lovdata.no

In English:

The Penal Code - Chapter 25. Violent offences, etc. - Lovdata

Chapter 25. Violent offences, etc.

lovdata.no

The police have announced that Marius will be charged under Section 271 (physical assault) and that he is being investigated in relation to Section 282 (abuse in close relationships).

 

[hereditarytitles]

I really hope he will get the strongest penalty that is available according to Norwegian Law. I tried to find statistics about penalties for DV in Europe, but couldn't find any. I have a feeling that the Scandinavian Countries have stricter laws than Germany for instance. There are many houses here for sheltering women who have suffered from DV and the need for such houses is getting higher every day. That is something very disturbing and I am wondering why our laws or jurisdiction isn't able to protect these women? And: those sheltering houses are mostly not financed by the government but often by donations. It is a shame IMO

 

[Muhler]

Thanks Tatiana Marie.

The Danish and Norwegian legislation vary a bit. The Norwegians use additional paragraphs.
The Norwegian "kroppskrenkelse" is a physical violation of another person, including violence.
"Kroppsskade" is bodily harm, which result in the victim being rendered helpless or needing more in depth treatment, or suffer permanent physical harm or dies.
But if perpetrated using a knife it becomes severe in both cases.
So IMO according to that Marius fall under §272 (severe violation) for certain, perhaps §274 (severe bodily harm) because the victim is on sick leave and probably §282 as well (which is about domestic abuse), perhaps §283 (severe domestic abuse), as the whole ordeal went on for a long time.

On top of that it's an open question as to whether Marius prevented the victim from escaping, that would be a crime in it's own right.
And Marius bombarding the third victim with calls and text messages, could be a violation of two more paragraphs: stalking and obstructing justice, including threatening or trying to influence a victim.

Apart form that, my post was to try and explain by examples at what level the act of violence escalate and what the typical consequences in Scandinavia are.
And again, in my layman estimation I cannot at present see how Marius can avoid a prison sentence. In fact I'd say he would be very lucky with getting away with six months.

I really hope he will get the strongest penalty that is available according to Norwegian Law. I tried to find statistics about penalties for DV in Europe, but couldn't find any. I have a feeling that the Scandinavian Countries have stricter laws than Germany for instance. There are many houses here for sheltering women who have suffered from DV and the need for such houses is getting higher every day. That is something very disturbing and I am wondering why our laws or jurisdiction isn't able to protect these women? And: those sheltering houses are mostly not financed by the government but often by donations. It is a shame IMO

Perhaps this is getting slightly off topic, but still worth mentioning I think.
In DK and probably Norway as well, there is an increase in the number of women who seek shelter as well, especially younger immigrant women, who by now constitute the majority of women living at these shelters, despite belonging to a minority and that paradoxically is seen as a positive thing.
Because that means that immigrant women are now much more aware that they can get help and that they can get away from an abusive husband and just as crucially that they will not tolerate being abused. - And that in spite of the social stigma and sadly often also pressure from the women's own family to stay in an abuse relationship.

There is to this day a considerable social stigma in regards to domestic abuse. For a modern, well educated woman, who is expected to be able to stand up for herself, there is a lot of shame in admitting to be suffering from domestic abuse and having stayed for a period in an abusive relationship. - It's the "Why didn't she just leave?!?"
The more educated and the higher social position the woman has the worse the stigma.

That is: A low educated women with a lower social background is praised to high heaven when she finally leave an abuse relationship.
While a highly educated women with a higher social standing, should not have tolerated any domestic abuse at all, and should have left on the spot, period. And when she doesn't... well... She's perhaps looked down upon.

It's akin to a man who is living in an abusive relationship with a woman. Such a man is to this day looked down upon. He's not a man. He's weak. And laughable.

 

[kalnel]

Thanks Tatiana Marie.

The Danish and Norwegian legislation vary a bit. The Norwegians use additional paragraphs.
The Norwegian "kroppskrenkelse" is a physical violation of another person, including violence.
"Kroppsskade" is bodily harm, which result in the victim being rendered helpless or needing more in depth treatment, or suffer permanent physical harm or dies.
But if perpetrated using a knife it becomes severe in both cases.
So IMO according to that Marius fall under §272 (severe violation) for certain, perhaps §274 (severe bodily harm) because the victim is on sick leave and probably §282 as well (which is about domestic abuse), perhaps §283 (severe domestic abuse), as the whole ordeal went on for a long time.

On top of that it's an open question as to whether Marius prevented the victim from escaping, that would be a crime in it's own right.
And Marius bombarding the third victim with calls and text messages, could be a violation of two more paragraphs: stalking and obstructing justice, including threatening or trying to influence a victim.

Apart form that, my post was to try and explain by examples at what level the act of violence escalate and what the typical consequences in Scandinavia are.
And again, in my layman estimation I cannot at present see how Marius can avoid a prison sentence. In fact I'd say he would be very lucky with getting away with six months.

Very interesting analysis, @Muhler. What you're saying makes total sense, although I'm very cynical about this, and I think that Marius will get off with a suspended sentence, parole, or even house arrest. (Although can you imagine the public outcry if the Crown Princess's son is serving house arrest at Skaugum or some other royal residence?)

His lawyers are probably negotiating a deal where if he completes rehab, anger management therapy, and whatever other therapies he requires, he won't have to go to prison.

I'm certainly not saying that would be a good thing or the right thing, but it seems to be how cases like this go with celebrities.

 

[Somebody]

Very interesting analysis, @Muhler. What you're saying makes total sense, although I'm very cynical about this, and I think that Marius will get off with a suspended sentence, parole, or even house arrest. (Although can you imagine the public outcry if the Crown Princess's son is serving house arrest at Skaugum or some other royal residence?)

His lawyers are probably negotiating a deal where if he completes rehab, anger management therapy, and whatever other therapies he requires, he won't have to go to prison.

I'm certainly not saying that would be a good thing or the right thing, but it seems to be how cases like this go with celebrities.

Norway is not the United States. Negotiating a deal (plea bargain) seems a very American thing to do - while other common law systems (most Anglosaxon countries) might allow it to a certain extent, it is not common practice in most of those countries. In countries with civil law systems (most European countries, including Norway), most countries don't allow for it and for the few countries where it has been introduced, this phenomenon is still used only sporadically.

 

[fabaunty]

Thank you for your kind wishes, Royalist! For me the experience is now in the past but I will always share my experience as I know that many people do not and maybe encourage them to do so!

It takes great courage to break free from such a relationship , thankyou for your insight . To hear first hand from someone who has had such , personal experience can only help to bring clarity , to our post's . I join with Royalist and many more in thanking you . My hope is that having admitted his guilt , the latest victim , and his previous victims can heal .

 

[Alisa]

It seems that Marius was yesterday still in Italy. At this Aftenposten's article (it's a paywall article but I could read it when put it to Google translator).

On 28 August, Marius traveled to Italy. He is still not available for further questioning by the police, as a result of his travel activities. Snekkestad's lawyer Petter Grødem criticizes the trip to Italy:
- My client thinks that this case has gone on for a very long time now, and she strongly wants the case to move forward. (..)

Bistandsadvokat kritisk til Marius Borg Høibys Italia-tur: – Det er klart jeg reagerer

Marius Borg Høiby er i Italia på ubestemt tid. – Min klient synes denne saken har vart veldig lenge nå, og hun ønsker sterkt at saken kommer videre.

www.aftenposten.no

I'm glad to see this article as it validates that I am not the only person who thinks this. Especially in light of the fact that I am not Norwegian.

Marius and his lawyer seems to be making a mockery of the legal system because they can. First, his lawyer was unavailable and questioning had to be delayed. Now Marius is partying in Italy causing further delay in questioning and thus preventing the case from being processed swiftly. I wonder what the next excuse for delay will be. Perhaps when he returns from Italy he will come down with the flu, maybe COVID-19?

Shameful!

 

[fabaunty]

With regard to any possible sentencing etc Marius might get , I understand he has already stated that any actions took place under the influence of drugs and alcohol . Sounds like { uk/ usa saying }, a cop out to me . I am aware that prolonged use of drugs etc ,[ especially as they have over time become stronger], can affect the mental stability of the user . However I have yet to see any published reports that his behaviour was less than exemplary , on those occasions , when he was in public or " private " with the Royal Family . So as a defence that does not wash with me . If he has been using hard drugs since he was 20 he is a hardened addict . I'm sorry for his victims , but I'm afraid I , do not believe that at least his Mother / Stepfather / Father and Stepmother were not aware of the situation . Yes they may have tried to get him help , shielded the younger sibling's from drama . However if it is true that MM did in fact speak to the latest victim , that goes far beyond the pale . It is Inexcusable .

I'm glad to see this article as it validates that I am not the only person who thinks this. Especially in light of the fact that I am not Norwegian.

Marius and his lawyer seems to be making a mockery of the legal system because they can. First, his lawyer was unavailable and questioning had to be delayed. Now Marius is partying in Italy causing further delay in questioning and thus preventing the case from being processed swiftly. I wonder what the next excuse for delay will be. Perhaps when he returns from Italy he will come down with the flu, maybe COVID-19?

Shameful!

Marius seems to have been making a mockery of the Norwegian legal system for almost a decade . MM , well , I understand she is his mother , and possibly regrets on some level , the increased scrutiny her very young son was inevitably subjected to upon her marriage . However , her , and I can only see it as mollycoddling has had disastrous results . She / and others have swept past warning signs under a rug , possibly to maintain their public image . Not a sustainable programme . I hope those affected get the outcome they deserve , on both sides of the case .

 

[kalnel]

Norway is not the United States. Negotiating a deal (plea bargain) seems a very American thing to do - while other common law systems (most Anglosaxon countries) might allow it to a certain extent, it is not common practice in most of those countries. In countries with civil law systems (most European countries, including Norway), most countries don't allow for it and for the few countries where it has been introduced, this phenomenon is still used only sporadically.

Norway actually does have plea bargaining, as do a growing number of countries. Plea Bargaining Changing Nordic Criminal Procedure: Sweden and Finland as Examples

But, it doesn't take a plea bargain to get charges reduced or dropped or to negotiate a punishment.

 

[Somebody]

Thanks! That's good to know. Nonetheless, the system is still rather novel and with limited use (unlike the States where 90% of the cases is 'solved' this way, unfortunately also resulting in poor innocent people receiving punishment for things they haven't done because the cost of trial is too high). I'd say it would lead to lots of criticism if a member of the king's family would get a good 'deal' out of a system like this as that would be seen as an overt example of a favorable treatment which is very much not accepted in Scandinavian culture which values equality.

Norway scores 8 on Motivation towards Achievement and Success and is thus described as the second most Consensus society (after the Swedes). This means that the softer aspects of culture are valued and encouraged, such as levelling with others, consensus, “independent” cooperation and sympathy for the underdog. Taking care of the environment is important. Trying to be better than others is neither socially nor materially rewarded. Societal solidarity in life is important; work to live and DO your best. Incentives such as free time and flexibility are favoured. Interaction through dialogue and “growing insight” is valued and self development along these terms is encouraged. Focus is on well-being; status is not shown. An effective manager is a supportive one, and decision making is achieved through involvement.

Source: https://www.theculturefactor.com/country-comparison-tool?countries=norway

 

[kalnel]

Thanks! That's good to know. Nonetheless, the system is still rather novel and with limited use (unlike the States where 90% of the cases is 'solved' this way, unfortunately also resulting in poor innocent people receiving punishment for things they haven't done because the cost of trial is too high). I'd say it would lead to lots of criticism if a member of the king's family would get a good 'deal' out of a system like this as that would be seen as an overt example of a favorable treatment which is very much not accepted in Scandinavian culture which values equality.


Source: https://www.theculturefactor.com/country-comparison-tool?countries=norway

Not sure that your swipe at the U.S. justice system is in any way relevant to Marius, but your thought about a consensus culture is interesting. Hard to imagine that would apply in a country where one “royal” family is elevated above all the others, though.

As this plays out, whatever happens to him will serve the interests of the royal family. That means making the whole thing blow over with as little drama as possible.

But, time will tell.

 

[fabaunty]

Not sure that your swipe at the U.S. justice system is in any way relevant to Marius, but your thought about a consensus culture is interesting. Hard to imagine that would apply in a country where one “royal” family is elevated above all the others, though.

As this plays out, whatever happens to him will serve the interests of the royal family. That means making the whole thing blow over with as little drama as possible.

But, time will tell.

I have never really got any sense that the Norwegian population think the "royal" family is elevated above all others . Rather that , they perceive them as embodying the best characteristics of their fellow Norwegians . Certainly , from Haakon V11 they seem to have been firmly wedded to a life of service to the Norwegian people . I'm afraid that more drama will inevitably come , not only from Marius , but from ML . She seems sadly addicted to headlines . As you say kalnel " time will tell ". I'll reserve my sympathy for the victims , and his grandparents .

 

[Muhler]

I too find Marius by now somewhat long stay in Italy odd. I can't help wondering if he has extended his stay contrary to advise and that means that he either brought a good deal of funds with him or his parents are - again - indulging him. It's not cheap to tour the nightclubs of Italy for a week and I doubt anyone here on TRF believe he keeps his nose away from cocaine while there.
Sending him off to Italy wasn't the brightest move to begin with, if they have to bring him back by force, it will really be embarrassing and it sure won't help Marius one bit.

I suspect the Norwegian legal system is pussyfooting because it's the NRF.
I hope that if Marius hasn't returned by next week that a warrant for his arrest will be issued. And should he return on his own free will within a day or two, that no further excuses will be tolerated and he will be put in jail pending police investigations should he try.
Marius obviously haven't understood the seriousness of his situation, no surprise there! But I begin to fear that the NRF themselves are closing their eyes for the trouble Marius is in as well. They are in denial.

Because IMO the best course of action would be: Co-operate, co-operate and co-operate even more. Get the investigation over with as fast as possible, so there will be a period of calm until the trial. During that period Marius can be prepared and go to rehab so that he can be presented as a new remorseful man at the trial. - Yeah, I also believe in the Tooth-fairy.
The longer this evasion parody goes on, the worse it is for the NRF.
No one cares about A and B members of the NRF, Marius is so much an NRF problem.

It will get even worse if Marius gets off lightly. It would be seriously bad for the NRF! They can sit for years and dream about 80 % approval ratings, because there won't be even a hope of any until Ingrid begins to take over for real.
Everything Mette Marit has worked for will be out the window, it is even likely that she will suffer the embarrassment of being sacked from some of her protections. She sure can forget all about ever uttering a word on behalf of abused women, if this continue much longer and/or it turns out she has had an active role in covering for Marius. Haakon will only be marginally better off.
To put it brutally It would be best if Marius gets a year in prison.
For the NRF, so that no favoritism is shown.
And especially for Marius, because he needs to feel that there are consequences in life. And better now, than after having beaten another girlfriend to a pulp. It will also give him time to get treatment and an opportunity to turn his life around.
And just as importantly: It will keep Marius away from his parents, especially Mette Marit.
Because they are not helping him one bit by trying to shield him.

Basically this whole affair has been messed up in every possible way. It's like Marius (read the NRF) are doing everything they can to make this worse.

 

[JR76]

Not sure that your swipe at the U.S. justice system is in any way relevant to Marius, but your thought about a consensus culture is interesting. Hard to imagine that would apply in a country where one “royal” family is elevated above all the others, though.

"Consencus culture" or not, the general Scandinavian would balk at the idea of someone escaping prosecution because of a privileged position. This goes for both members of the royal families and the monarchs themselves.

 

[FigTree]

I think the reality about DV is that very few, if anyone, ever goes to jail. Also the legal system is a winding complex operation. Again worldwide. He cannot be charged without the prosecution service okaying this. This can take a long time as they are unlikely to give consent without feeling they have a probability of conviction. Unfortunately, as with sexual assault, it is a mine field to prosecute violence where it is not ‘stranger.’ Where there is more success is in coercive and controlling behaviour. Again how successful this is I do not know.

He hasn’t been charged with anything. He can go on holidays. Even if it appears unwise. And it is.

 

[Mbruno]

"Consencus culture" or not, the general Scandinavian would balk at the idea of someone escaping prosecution because of a privileged position. This goes for both members of the royal families and the monarchs themselves.

Nonetheless the monarchs of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden have absolute immunity from criminal prosecution under the respective constitutions of those countries. That is the case BTW for all European monarchs.

 

[Frelinghighness]

I saw I think the first video of him in a bar with a woman in Italy.do we know he has been partying, going to nightclubs from then on? Really appalling situation by NRF and the authorities.

 

[Queen Claude]

Random Thoughts:
* Admittedly I am using U.S. sensibilities, but I surprised that given the severity of his ex-partner's injuries that Marius was not charged up front with those serious charges and a restraining order not issued immediately. Presumably from there the investigation can continue and additional charges brought if warranted.

* Going to Italy may not be a good look, but it has been characterized that Marius is partying in Italy and, despite that Norwegian and probably German reporters went to Italy for the sole purpose of reporting on Marius, that has not yet been reported. The media may still be there or, if they are not getting enough content to justify camping out in Italy, they may have left, but I am willing to bet that word was left that they will pay well for tips about Marius' activities.

Also if Marius' drug connections and partying buddies are in Norway then it may be good that he is away from those folks.

* I don't think that having a mental illness diagnosis and the fact that the violence occurred while having a mental episode means that the person will bypass prosecution or get softer treatment, although this is my judgement, not based on vast knowledge of Norway's justice system.

The way I see it is that if it is revealed that Marius' mental issues are known, the question is was he following his treatment plan, and if he was not, then he is accountable for his bad acts while non-compliant.

I think that if Marius is mentally ill, then that should be on the table so that he gets treatment if/while incarcerated, and that compliance with therapy be a condition of his parole / probation.

* I think that multiple things can be true at the same time. That Marius can be mentally ill, have substance issues, have personality disorder(s) and character issues, etc.

* While I will restate that I am surprised that stricter actions were not taken immediately given the nature of Marius' ex-partner's injuries, it looks like the Norwegian authorities are doing a thorough job building a case against him. I am not assuming that there is some kind of favoritism happening, if anything the authorities may be being extra-vigilant in building their case. Furthermore, since all 3 ex-partners have representation and all three have been willing to speak to the media, then that serves as additional form of vigilance.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

"Consencus culture" or not, the general Scandinavian would balk at the idea of someone escaping prosecution because of a privileged position. This goes for both members of the royal families and the monarchs themselves.

Then why is it that the Scandinavian monarchies (Sweden excepted) are the only monarchies in Europe where not only the monarch, but certain members of the monarch's family, have absolute immunity from the jurisdiction of the law courts? (If anyone would like to answer my question, we should probably continue the discussion here: Constitutional and Dynastic Matters in the Norwegian Monarchy)

Marius and his lawyer seems to be making a mockery of the legal system because they can. First, his lawyer was unavailable and questioning had to be delayed. Now Marius is partying in Italy causing further delay in questioning and thus preventing the case from being processed swiftly.

We don't know why the lawyer was unavailable; he may have had a serious reason. The police stated that no questioning had been scheduled for the time that Marius was in Italy.

Oppdatering i Høiby-saken

Politiet gjennomførte et første avhør av Høiby tirsdag kveld denne uken. Vi informerer ikke om hva han har sagt i avhør eller hvordan han stiller seg til siktelsen.

www.politiet.no

However if it is true that MM did in fact speak to the latest victim ,

The palace and the latest victim's lawyer confirmed that the Crown Princess contacted the victim and spoke to her. The victim's lawyer added that the victim did not have a problem with it.

VG has found out:
After the woman had been subjected to violence by Marius, she got a message from Mette-Marit on her phone. The woman is said to have then called Mette-Marit. VG doesn't know the content of the conversation, the number of contacts between them, duration or time.
VG asked the Palace about the contact between Mette-Marit and the woman, and the criticism Mette-Marit has received. The press officer answered that as previously told, they don't go into details about the conversation, as it is private.
The victim's legal counsel Mette Yvonne Larsen says:
- The contact has not been a burden for my client, but there is an understanding that some may react outwardly. But for her it hasn't been a problem.

Opplysninger til VG: Fornærmet fikk melding av Mette-Marit etter voldsepisoden

Etter at den fornærmede kvinnen hadde blitt utsatt for vold av Marius Borg Høiby (27), skal det ha tikket inn en melding fra kronprinsesse Mette-Marit på telefonen hennes.

www.vg.no

 

[Ghost]

Nonetheless the monarchs of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden have absolute immunity from criminal prosecution under the respective constitutions of those countries. That is the case BTW for all European monarchs.

I think the same, somewhat nuanced, goes for every head of state, no matter the system - republic or monarchy. I mean, a president has a very large immunity for the period he/she is in office.