Death of Queen Elizabeth II - Pre-Funeral Discussion and Reception

[JR76]

On September 19, between 12 and 13 o'clock, the traditional Seraphim Toll will take place at Riddarholmen Church in Stockholm for Queen Elizabeth II. The church will be open to the public during the ceremony.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1570426283049328640

The toll is held on the day of the funeral of a knight (male) or member (female) of the Order of the Seraphim when their coat of arms are carried by a guard from the Halls of the Royal Orders at the Royal Palace through Stockholm to Riddarholmen Church where their death is announced.

 

[hereditarytitles]

But, in the other hand, she was born a citizen of Australia, a country where the late Queen was Head of State.

I suppose Denmark is simply sticking to the 2-person rule.

In one of the British papers I have read that they have to reduce the numbers of invited guests to 2000 people maximum, because the church cannot accommodate more people.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Perhaps they should have chosen to have the funeral at St. Paul's; it holds significantly more people.

 

[Gawin]

Perhaps they should have chosen to have the funeral at St. Paul's; it holds significantly more people.

The Queen chose Westminster Abbey. They are honoring her wishes.

 

[Durham]

Will it be then that the gun carriage is drawn by Royal Marines? I expected this already yesterday but then that was not the funeral itself.

The naval party will be made up of sailors & ratings not marines.

St Paul's is certainly larger but it lacks the royal history of the abbey. And the atmosphere would be quite different I think.

 

[FigTree]

St Paul's for all its grandeur is not a church you would want anyone to have their funeral at. It's huge qnd impersonal really. I really don't like when they have any services their. It's an awkward feel.westminister despite being huge feels small and intimate.

 

[Durham]

St Paul's for all its grandeur is not a church you would want anyone to have their funeral at. It's huge qnd impersonal really. I really don't like when they have any services their. It's an awkward feel.westminister despite being huge feels small and intimate.

Yes I agree about the intimate feel of the abbey. It's also the most important of the Royal Peculiars so very appropriate

 

[Biri]

Empress Farah, Crown Prince Reza and Crown Princess Yasmine took part in William and Catherine's wedding.

Sorry, I mistook the wedding of William and Catherine with the wedding of Felipe and Letizia ?

 

[Somebody]

Will the family of Princess Mary attend the funeral?
They have the same relation to the Queen as the Gloucester or Kent families but they never seem to be included.

Except that the queen's cousins passed away in 1998 and 2011 respectively. However, it would make sense if at least Charles's second cousins (so Mary's grandsons) receive an invite.

 

[ElisaR]

Buckingham Palace released some details about the funeral today. I'm not sure if this has already been shared here.
https://www.royal.uk/state-funeral-and-committal-service-her-majesty-queen

 

[Somebody]

Buckingham Palace released some details about the funeral today. I'm not sure if this has already been shared here.
https://www.royal.uk/state-funeral-and-committal-service-her-majesty-queen

It's interesting how the Vigil of the queen's children (who also had a Vigil in Edinburgh) is announced but no mention is included about a Vigil of the queen's grandchildren which apparently according to various sources takes place on Saturday.

 

[Mbruno]

Buckingham Palace released some details about the funeral today. I'm not sure if this has already been shared here.
https://www.royal.uk/state-funeral-and-committal-service-her-majesty-queen

Based on the published details, I understand that no foreign representatives (other than representatives of the Commonwealth realms) will be present at the Committal Service at St George's Chapel. Is that correct?

 

[ElisaR]

So it seems.

 

[Somebody]

Based on the published details, I understand that no foreign representatives (other than representatives of the Commonwealth realms) will be present at the Committal Service at St George's Chapel. Is that correct?

Unless they are family members or close friends probably - but not just because they represent a foreign government.

I am glad that all the PMs of the queen's realms are included and not just the British ones.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Do you think that the Middletons, the Tindalls, the Mapelli Mozzis, and Mrs. Brooksbank (Eugenie's mother-in-law) are also invited to attend the funeral?

Why should any of them be invited? For one, space at the Abbey is limited. Two, they aren't close family or members of foreign governments/royal families. Dead serious. Eugenie's mother-in-law is not a close family member of QEII. She's not any kind of family member to her. Same with the Middletons, the Tindalls, and Beatrice's in-laws.

When you have a limited number of seats to work with, you have to be very circumspect about who you give invitations. None of those people need to be there, and they shouldn't be.

 

[Prinsara]

Why should any of them be invited? For one, space at the Abbey is limited. Two, they aren't close family or members of foreign governments/royal families. Dead serious. Eugenie's mother-in-law is not a close family member of QEII. She's not any kind of family member to her. Same with the Middletons, the Tindalls, and Beatrice's in-laws.

When you have a limited number of seats to work with, you have to be very circumspect about who you give invitations. None of those people need to be there, and they shouldn't be.

I think Catherine's parents may be there in terms of support for her (they are her two VIPs), but that's just a guess. I wouldn't think any of the others would be.

 

[Sun Lion]

Former President Bush’s daughter has spoken about being present when the call came through to Charles that his mother’s health had suddenly declined … staff running up and down the halls and being asked to be quiet.

Here is a link with details of the previous evening and that morning -

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...er-king-charles-dinner-queen-elizabeth-death/

 

[Mbruno]

I think Catherine's parents may be there in terms of support for her (they are her two VIPs), but that's just a guess. I wouldn't think any of the others would be.

By the same reasoning, Doria Ragland should be invited too (to support the Duchess of Sussex).

Given the limited space in the Abbey, I don't expect the Mddletons to be invited, but we will see.

 

[Prinsara]

Former President Bush’s daughter has spoken about being present when the call came through to Charles that his mother’s health had suddenly declined … staff running up and down the halls and being asked to be quiet.

Here is a link with details of the previous evening and that morning -

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...er-king-charles-dinner-queen-elizabeth-death/

Specifically, Jenna Bush has been a journalist/presenter with the Today Show for awhile, so her status as the former president's daughter is not why she was involved.

 

[Sun Lion]

Specifically, Jenna Bush has been a journalist/presenter with the Today Show for awhile, so her status as the former president's daughter is not why she was involved.

Of course Prinsara, but most non-American people would know her more as the daughter of a former US President even though it is clear from the details she has given as to why she was there.

 

[Prinsara]

By the same reasoning, Doria Ragland should be invited too (to support the Duchess of Sussex).

Given the limited space in the Abbey, I don't expect the Mddletons to be invited, but we will see.

The Duchess of Sussex is not the Princess of Wales (or a senior working royal at all), nor are the two playing equivalent parts in any of these current circumstances. That you're trying to equate them is a little strange.

I'm not expecting Kate's siblings, just Michael and Carole, maybe possibly. We'll see.

 

[Mbruno]

Unless they are family members or close friends probably - but not just because they represent a foreign government.

I am glad that all the PMs of the queen's realms are included and not just the British ones.

I believe the foreign monarchs or former monarchs who are Knights or Ladies of the Garter should be invited to the Committal Service, but it appears that they will not be .

 

[Sister Morphine]

The Duchess of Sussex is not the Princess of Wales (or a senior working royal at all), nor are the two playing equivalent parts in any of these current circumstances. That you're trying to equate them is a little strange.

They're equal in the sense that they're both daughters-in-law of the King. I don't think they were trying to draw any further equivalence than that. The Sussexes are being treated as senior members of the family because by blood, they are. Harry is the King's son. Meghan is his wife. To treat them any less than the Waleses (sp?) in this situation would be wrong. Note that I said, "in this situation." The Queen's funeral is not the time to play politics over who does what, where, when, and how.

 

[Prinsara]

They're equal in the sense that they're both daughters-in-law of the King. I don't think they were trying to draw any further equivalence than that. The Sussexes are being treated as senior members of the family because by blood, they are. Harry is the King's son. Meghan is his wife. To treat them any less than the Waleses (sp?) in this situation would be wrong. Note that I said, "in this situation." The Queen's funeral is not the time to play politics over who does what, where, when, and how.

The POW and his wife are the heir to the throne and someone with a major new job. The Sussexes are visiting and play no part in the monarchy at all. It's not a snub to the Sussexes to consider that reality dictates that Catherine may wish for her parents in this situation and have the clout now to bring it about, and Doria Ragland will not be invited. Period.

Trying to draw an equivalence because they are both the King's daughters-in-law is ridiculous, and there was no need to bring the Sussexes into any of this, frankly.

 

[Somebody]

Former President Bush’s daughter has spoken about being present when the call came through to Charles that his mother’s health had suddenly declined … staff running up and down the halls and being asked to be quiet.

Here is a link with details of the previous evening and that morning -

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...er-king-charles-dinner-queen-elizabeth-death/

So, if Charles and Camilla were notified around 12.30 and the message got out into the world around 12.45 (the first message on TRF was at 12.48) - they had barely anytime to notify all immediate family members that the queen's health was rapidly declining and she was at her death bed and all of the world knowing about it as well.

The short statement by Buckingham Palace was posted her at 12.50.

 

[Heavs]

They're equal in the sense that they're both daughters-in-law of the King. I don't think they were trying to draw any further equivalence than that. The Sussexes are being treated as senior members of the family because by blood, they are. Harry is the King's son. Meghan is his wife. To treat them any less than the Waleses (sp?) in this situation would be wrong. Note that I said, "in this situation." The Queen's funeral is not the time to play politics over who does what, where, when, and how.

The Middletons have been invited to many more royal events than Doria has over the years even when she "could" have been, that's just the truth. Sophie's father and HM apparently established a very cordial relationship over the last 20 years and he was invited by her to many events both official and informal so he may be as well. Doria was treated with respect and invited to events that specifically involved Meghan as well as attending a couple of her personal events like "Together".

I think it's possible that the Middletons will be invited. They were at the Jubilee and Doria wasn't even though Meghan and Harry were invited for the "family events".

It's possible other in laws will be invited but they're sometimes even less recognisable than Sophie's dad so it might not get picked up. But that will be based on personal connection rather than say "MIL of Princess Beatrice" on that alone.

One of the biggest things would be logistics. It's easier for the Middletons to drive for 2 hours than it is for Doria to block several days out of her life to fly across the world.

I don't think it really matters either way in terms of official status. The Middletons continue to be close to the new Waleses and live close by. They'll be invited to somethings and unofficially involved with others due to family osmosis. The Waleses step up in status will increase the amount of events they *could* be invited to but doesn't mean they will attend.

The Sussexes and Doria will continue to live mostly in CA and not take part in most events publicly, limiting what Doria might be invited to.

 

[Sun Lion]

So, if Charles and Camilla were notified around 12.30 and the message got out into the world around 12.45 (the first message on TRF was at 12.48) - they had barely anytime to notify all immediate family members that the queen's health was rapidly declining and she was at her death bed and all of the world knowing about it as well.

The short statement by Buckingham Palace was posted her at 12.50.

No, I think the call came around 8.30 that morning Somebody.

That is what it sounds like to me, from the details given by Jenna Bush Hager.

She says she and the interview crew were at Charles and Camilla’s home at that time when they were asked to be quiet as the phone call came.

 

[JR76]

No, I think the call came around 8.30 that morning Somebody.

That is what it sounds like to me, from the details given by Jenna Bush Hager.

She says she and the interview crew were at Charles and Camilla’s home at that time when they were asked to be quiet as the phone call came.

The article quotes Jenna Bush as saying that they were there at 8.30 AM and then continues - "At 12:30 p.m., we heard sort of running up and down the halls and it was her team and his team... they came in and said can you please be quiet there’s a call. We were right by then-Prince Charles’s, now-King Charles III’s, office... And then all of a sudden, we heard a helicopter. They said the queen is ill and they have gone and rushed off to be with her."

 

[Somebody]

No, I think the call came around 8.30 that morning Somebody.

That is what it sounds like to me, from the details given by Jenna Bush Hager.

She says she and the interview crew were at Charles and Camilla’s home at that time when they were asked to be quiet as the phone call came.

See post by JR76. She specifically stated that the phone call came at 12.30. They had been at the house for 4 hours at that point preparing for the interview and until the phone call came at 12.30, they expected to meet Camilla at 1.30 pm for the interview to take place as scheduled around 2.00 pm/2.30 pm.

 

[Sun Lion]

I’m not reading it that way myself … to me the bit about when they were due to see Camilla is just an aside.

I’m reading it as they were there at 8.30 and that that has some significance in Jenna’s account.

(My own thinking is that is around the time someone would be attending to Her Majesty and found that something had happened during the night.)