Death of Queen Elizabeth II - Pre-Funeral Discussion and Reception

[Fem]

I’m not reading it that way myself … to me the bit about when they were due to see Camilla is just an aside.

I’m reading it as they were there at 8.30 and that that has some significance in Jenna’s account.

(My own thinking is that is around the time someone would be attending to Her Majesty and found that something had happened during the night.)

I mean it all seems pretty straightforward as far as timeline goes.

8:30AM - "we were setting up the interview, we were at their house," and "We were there at 8:30 a.m." suggest the arrival of Jenna and the staff.

It has a significance in a way that this is when they arrived and everything was looking all good, like the scheduled interview was going to happen.

12:30PM - "At 12:30 p.m., we heard sort of running up and down the halls and it was her team and his team... they came in and said can you please be quiet there’s a call. We were right by then-Prince Charles’s, now-King Charles III’s, office..."

She says the commotion started around 12:30PM, they were asked to be quiet because of the phone call. So that gives us quite precise time of the phone call.


From my point of view, the phone call at 8:30AM is simply not possible. The news clearly was bad enough for them to call for a helicopter immediately. There is no way Camilla and Charles would stay at Birkhall for 4 hours, letting Jenna and her crew set up for an interview, that was going to take place at 2/2:30PM, if they knew hours earlier.

There is no indication the Queen's health deteriorated during the night. I would even say everything we know is going against that idea (re: Camilla preparing for an interview). Things happen anytime, it doesn't have to be during the night.

 

[Erin9]

Death of Queen Elizabeth II - Pre-Funeral Discussion

Former President Bush’s daughter has spoken about being present when the call came through to Charles that his mother’s health had suddenly declined … staff running up and down the halls and being asked to be quiet.

Here is a link with details of the previous evening and that morning -

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...er-king-charles-dinner-queen-elizabeth-death/

Wow. Talk about timing. Incredible that she just happened to be there. Sounds like they had a lovely dinner with Charles the night before.

I think we all knew her health deteriorated very quickly. Otherwise, family would have been there sooner. But, still, this sounds very very fast.

 

[Hallo girl]

Just out of interest , Charles was at Dumfries House in Ayrshire, not Birkhall.
Birkhall is driving distance, he wouldn’t need a helicopter.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Regarding the times that people were told things I remember that at 8.00 p.m. here in Sydney (11.00 am in the UK) that the cricket test was due to begin. They had a wet outfield so didn't start on time. I did a bit of channel surfing until I went back when I knew they were going to do an inspection of the ground and it was raining. By this time it was about 12.00 in the UK (an hour after the scheduled start of play) so I decided to check Sky UK for a weather report and the news was 'breaking' that Charles, Camilla and William were on their way to Balmoral so I would say they knew before midday UK time if Sky was running that by about 12.10 p.m.

 

[Gawin]

The Middletons have been invited to many more royal events than Doria has over the years even when she "could" have been, that's just the truth. Sophie's father and HM apparently established a very cordial relationship over the last 20 years and he was invited by her to many events both official and informal so he may be as well. Doria was treated with respect and invited to events that specifically involved Meghan as well as attending a couple of her personal events like "Together".

I think it's possible that the Middletons will be invited. They were at the Jubilee and Doria wasn't even though Meghan and Harry were invited for the "family events".

It's possible other in laws will be invited but they're sometimes even less recognisable than Sophie's dad so it might not get picked up. But that will be based on personal connection rather than say "MIL of Princess Beatrice" on that alone.

One of the biggest things would be logistics. It's easier for the Middletons to drive for 2 hours than it is for Doria to block several days out of her life to fly across the world.

I don't think it really matters either way in terms of official status. The Middletons continue to be close to the new Waleses and live close by. They'll be invited to somethings and unofficially involved with others due to family osmosis. The Waleses step up in status will increase the amount of events they *could* be invited to but doesn't mean they will attend.

The Sussexes and Doria will continue to live mostly in CA and not take part in most events publicly, limiting what Doria might be invited to.

The Queen also knew the Middletons much longer than Doria. In addition to receiving invitations to royal events, they were also her guests at Sandringham and Balmoral. I don't see any comparison between their relationship with the Queen and Doria's.

 

[Prisma]

On September 16th, Japan's Cabinet formalized the plan for Emperor Naruhito and Empress Masako to visit the UK September 17-20 to attend the state funeral of Queen Elizabeth II.
For the first time, Crown Prince Akishino will temporarily act on the behalf of the Emperor in state matters during the trip.
Sources: Sankei, Jiji


On September 15th, Princess Akiko of Mikasa visited the British Embassy in Tokyo to express condolences. She visited for ~20 minutes. Queen Elizabeth invited Princess Akiko to tea when she was studying at the University of Oxford in 2005, and they spoke for about an hour. Akiko is also honorary president of the Japan-British Society.
Photo/video: FNN, FNN2

 

[noc]

The current US president will be the only one arriving by the car, everyone else will take the bus.

The americans are a bit of an odd bunch no?

 

[Sun Lion]

I mean it all seems pretty straightforward as far as timeline goes.

8:30AM - "we were setting up the interview, we were at their house," and "We were there at 8:30 a.m." suggest the arrival of Jenna and the staff.

It has a significance in a way that this is when they arrived and everything was looking all good, like the scheduled interview was going to happen.

12:30PM - "At 12:30 p.m., we heard sort of running up and down the halls and it was her team and his team... they came in and said can you please be quiet there’s a call. We were right by then-Prince Charles’s, now-King Charles III’s, office..."

She says the commotion started around 12:30PM, they were asked to be quiet because of the phone call. So that gives us quite precise time of the phone call.


From my point of view, the phone call at 8:30AM is simply not possible. The news clearly was bad enough for them to call for a helicopter immediately. There is no way Camilla and Charles would stay at Birkhall for 4 hours, letting Jenna and her crew set up for an interview, that was going to take place at 2/2:30PM, if they knew hours earlier.

There is no indication the Queen's health deteriorated during the night. I would even say everything we know is going against that idea (re: Camilla preparing for an interview). Things happen anytime, it doesn't have to be during the night.

I was wrong … have been out all day and just had a chance to look for a YouTube of Jenna Bush Hager speaking about it all.

She and her crew were actually at Dumfries House, not at Charles and Camilla’s home, and she says the call came through at 12.30 and then the helicopter took off.

There are a few more details here than in the printed article -

A moment in history at first-hand.

 

[eya]

The Royal Couple of Malaysia travel to London to pay their last respects to Queen Elizabeth II who passed away on 8 September.


https://www.instagram.com/p/CijdLQXBkLN/


"His Majesty King Tupou VI of Tonga departed yesterday for London to attend the State Funeral of Her Majesty The late Queen Elizabeth II. His Majesty ordered the flying of His Royal Standard at half-mast over the Royal Palace, in a gracious mark of respect."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1570521247460753410

 

[Sister Morphine]

The americans are a bit of an odd bunch no?

Excuse me? The Secret Service is responsible for the security of the President and his wife both here in the U.S. and when they travel abroad, and there was no way either Pres. Biden or Dr. Biden would be allowed to attend if they could not travel in their own vehicle. It's a matter of our national security.

 

[Blog Real]

No Crown Princess Mary?

https://www.kongehuset.dk/kalender/...e-ved-dronning-elizabeth-ii-s-statsbegravelse

The royal house's communications department explains to BT why Crown Princess Mary will not attend Queen Elizabeth II's funeral:

"There has been a regrettable error in the invitation of the British Foreign Office's protocol. Thus, only the Queen and Crown Prince of the Danish side will attend Queen Elizabeth II's state funeral on Monday."

https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...-deltager-kronprinsesse-mary-alligevel-ikke-i

President Volodymyr Zelensky's wife Olena Zelenska to attend Queen Elizabeth's funeral on behalf of Ukraine

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-ne...e/news-story/794e89b9b2264c5633aa6a4f39d3458f

Royals attending Queen Elizabeth’s funeral

Reigning Royal Houses:
Belgium
King Philippe and Queen Mathilde

Denmark
Queen Margrethe II of Denmark and Crown Prince Frederik

Luxembourg
Grand Duke Henri and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa

Liechtenstein
Hereditary Prince Alois & Hereditary Princess Sophie

Monaco
Prince Albert II and Princess Charlene

Netherlands
King Willem-Alexander, Queen Máxima and Princess Beatrix

Norway
King Harald V and Queen Sonja

Spain
King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia
King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia

Sweden
King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia

Others:
Sultan Hassanal of Brunei
King Jigme and Queen Jetsun of Bhutan
Emperor Naruhito and Empress Masako of Japan
Sultan Haitham of Oman
Yang di-Pertuan Agong Abdullah and Raja Permaisuri Agong Tunku of Malaysia
King Tupou of Tonga

Non-reigning Royal Houses:
The Margravine of Baden
Hereditary Prince Bernhard & Hereditary Princess Stephanie of Baden
Tsar Simeon of Bulgaria
Prince Donatus, Landgrave of Hesse
Prince Philipp & Princess Saskia of Hohenlohe-Langenburg
Margareta & Prince Radu of Romania
Crown Prince Pavlos of Greece
Prince Emanuele of Savoy
Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia

Note: These are the people who are currently confirmed.

 

[Somebody]

Regarding the times that people were told things I remember that at 8.00 p.m. here in Sydney (11.00 am in the UK) that the cricket test was due to begin. They had a wet outfield so didn't start on time. I did a bit of channel surfing until I went back when I knew they were going to do an inspection of the ground and it was raining. By this time it was about 12.00 in the UK (an hour after the scheduled start of play) so I decided to check Sky UK for a weather report and the news was 'breaking' that Charles, Camilla and William were on their way to Balmoral so I would say they knew before midday UK time if Sky was running that by about 12.10 p.m.

Feel free to check the timeline here on TRF as that is a pretty accurate way to know when the news broke. The very first message that BBC broke the news was at 12.48 pm (UK time) here on TRF with the Buckingham Palace press release up on 12.50 pm. At 12.58 pm first confirmation that Charles and Camilla were on their way and that William was to travel to Balmoral as well.

This adds up with Jenna Bush's account that Charles and Camilla got the phone call at 12.30.

 

[Somebody]

I was wrong … have been out all day and just had a chance to look for a YouTube of Jenna Bush Hager speaking about it all.

She and her crew were actually at Dumfries House, not at Charles and Camilla’s home, and she says the call came through at 12.30 and then the helicopter took off.

There are a few more details here than in the printed article -

A moment in history at first-hand.

Exactly. As the written article that several of us referenced or even cited very accurately described

 

[Kataryn]

It's interesting how the Vigil of the queen's children (who also had a Vigil in Edinburgh) is announced but no mention is included about a Vigil of the queen's grandchildren which apparently according to various sources takes place on Saturday.

Saw a big article in the Daily Fai's online edition about that. Including where the grandchildren will be placed.
Look here:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hold-special-vigil-coffin-Saturday-night.html


As for the vigil of the children: I am really unhappy that Charles allowed Andrew to wear uniform. Yes, nothing was proven and if so, the girl was sexually an adult in most European countries, but still being a frined alone of that terrible pedophile Epstein must mean kicking Andrew out and not allow him wear any uniform. War hero, yes, but being a friend of a person whose whole lifestyle was influenced with his having young girls available at all times means that surely Andrew would never have intoduced his "Darling daughters" there and that alone is such a hypocrisy which used to be common, but once someone is a symbol of something meant to be good (Monarchy!) one should never be caught in such a situation and even better: there should never be something where a Prince of the Realm should not be proud to be seen.



Yes, I know, in former times... My views came when I read Edmonde Charles Roux book about Coco Chanel and how Coco's relationship with the Duke of Westminster worked. and the hyprocrisy of the times made me angry. I believe Andrew is still a man of old times and I hate that this can attached to his mother's funeral in a lot of people's minds.

 

[Mbruno]

The royal house's communications department explains to BT why Crown Princess Mary will not attend Queen Elizabeth II's funeral:

"There has been a regrettable error in the invitation of the British Foreign Office's protocol. Thus, only the Queen and Crown Prince of the Danish side will attend Queen Elizabeth II's state funeral on Monday."

https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...-deltager-kronprinsesse-mary-alligevel-ikke-i

That seems to be consistent with what the Spaniards had reported earlier, i.e., the invitations sent to the Belgian, Dutch and Spanish embassies were addressed to the current monarchs, former monarchs, and respective spouses; the invitation sent to the Danish delegation was addressed, however, only to the Queen and the Crown Prince, with no mention of spouses.


Yes, it was probably a protocol error, but the Danes appear to have taken offense by their tone above. It is indeed regrettable, but it appears that CP Mary will not attend basically because she was simply not (officially) invited.

 

[Stefan]

That seems to be consistent with what the Spaniards had reported earlier, i.e., the invitations sent to the Belgian, Dutch and Spanish embassies were addressed to the current monarchs, former monarchs, and respective spouses; the invitation sent to the Danish delegation was addressed, however, only to the Queen and the Crown Prince, with no mention of spouses.


Yes, it was probably a protocol error, but the Danes appear to have taken offense by their tone above. It is indeed regrettable, but it appears that CP Mary will not attend basically because she was simply not (officially) invited.

I mean if it really was an protocol Error they should have made an exception as it was their fault. Yes i know space is limted but it is 1 place.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The americans are a bit of an odd bunch no?

There are very important security reasons why the U.S. Secret Service cannot permit the president to be bussed in with the others.

Several of the leaders of the G7 nations will also not arrive by bus.

 

[Mbruno]

I mean if it really was an protocol Error they should have made an exception as it was their fault. Yes i know space is limted but it is 1 place.

I am going with the note from the Danes that called it a "regrettable error" by the UK Foreign Office Protocol. I doubt the Foreign Office would intentionally not invite the Crown Princess when invitations were extended to more than 2 people in the case of other monarchies.

 

[Erin9]

The royal house's communications department explains to BT why Crown Princess Mary will not attend Queen Elizabeth II's funeral:



"There has been a regrettable error in the invitation of the British Foreign Office's protocol. Thus, only the Queen and Crown Prince of the Danish side will attend Queen Elizabeth II's state funeral on Monday."



https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...-deltager-kronprinsesse-mary-alligevel-ikke-i



President Volodymyr Zelensky's wife Olena Zelenska to attend Queen Elizabeth's funeral on behalf of Ukraine



https://www.skynews.com.au/world-ne...e/news-story/794e89b9b2264c5633aa6a4f39d3458f

I’m impressed Olena Zelenska is coming. Obviously easier for her to come than her husband, but very nice gesture given the circumstances.

 

[Mary-Rose]

Wouldn't it be great to get a group photo of the reigning kings, similar to the one taken at the funeral of king Edward VII? Maybe they will take the picture on Sunday evening?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...indsor_for_the_funeral_of_King_Edward_VII.jpg

 

[lula]

I mean if it really was an protocol Error they should have made an exception as it was their fault. Yes i know space is limted but it is 1 place.

When the Spanish Royal House communicated that Juan Carlos and Sofia were invited, they also said that Beatrix, Albert, Paola... and the Crown Prince of Denmark had been invited. Zarzuela was very precise with the information due to the controversy surrounding Juan Carlos... so perhaps it was the Danish Royal House who misunderstood it. It was also logical, inviting Frederik to accompany Margrethe was an understandable gesture of deference... but inviting Mary and not the heirs of Norway and Sweden would have been a diplomatic error.

 

[W.Y.CII]

Indeed impressive that Ukraine will send their first lady, considering their country is still being invaded and in war.

Pretty odd that the Greek decided to send three people while the others are just following the rule of two representative per country/royal house (obviously except abdicated monarchs and spouse). I thought they might send three people and the third would be Theodora who's QEII's goddaughter rather than pavlos.

 

[suztav]

Indeed impressive that Ukraine will send their first lady, considering their country is still being invaded and in war.

Pretty odd that the Greek decided to send three people while the others are just following the rule of two representative per country/royal house (obviously except abdicated monarchs and spouse). I thought they might send three people and the third would be Theodora who's QEII's goddaughter rather than pavlos.

The Greek royal family are family to Prince Philip.

As for the Danish royal family -- regrettable indeed, especially when you consider that Mary is Scottish by heritage, and born in a Commonwealth nation.

 

[Minister of Court]

Clearly for heads of state, monarchs or not, the invitation has been plus one.

Former monarchs of current monarchies, such as Beatrix, have received a personal inviation.

Deposed monarchs and their families, such as the Greeks or the Badens, are probably included in family and friends.

 

[Izzie]

When the Spanish Royal House communicated that Juan Carlos and Sofia were invited, they also said that Beatrix, Albert, Paola... and the Crown Prince of Denmark had been invited. Zarzuela was very precise with the information due to the controversy surrounding Juan Carlos... so perhaps it was the Danish Royal House who misunderstood it. It was also logical, inviting Frederik to accompany Margrethe was an understandable gesture of deference... but inviting Mary and not the heirs of Norway and Sweden would have been a diplomatic error.

NO. The DRF did NOT misunderstand. It is NOT their fault. The British Foreign Ministry has stated it was THEIR error...as such, THEIR fault. Therefore, it would have been the correct thing to do to allow the invitation to stand as that was how it was accepted. Maybe a nice gesture after QMII basically cancelled the public events for her OWN jubilee because of this death. I can only dare to think of the reactions we would be reading and hearing if the situation was reversed.

 

[Mbruno]

Clearly for heads of state, monarchs or not, the invitation has been plus one.

Former monarchs of current monarchies, such as Beatrix, have received a personal inviation.

Deposed monarchs and their families, such as the Greeks or the Badens, are probably included in family and friends.

Either the UK Foreign Office made a mistake (as the Danes suggested), or the British and the Danes have different interpretations on what the correct protocol should be in this case. Either way, the use of the qualifier "regrettable" suggests to me that the Danes took it as an offense. But it is water under the bridge now.


By the way, I could not find any official confirmation that King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia will attend the funeral. Are they really going to be there?

I am assuming that King Albert and Queen Paola will not attend , or else we would have had confirmation from the Belgian court already.

 

[Stefan]

I am assuming that King Albert and Queen Paola will not attend , or else we would have had confirmation from the Belgian court already.

One of the belgian Royal Reports said a few days ago on Twitter that there are no plans that King Albert and Queen Paola will attend.

I suppose they where not as close to Queen Elizabeth II. then for example Queen Margrethe, Princess Beatrix etc.

 

[lula]

By the way, I could not find any official confirmation that King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia will attend the funeral. Are they really going to be there?

His Majesty King Juan Carlos and Her Majesty Queen Sofía are scheduled to attend the reception offered by His Majesty the King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland on Sunday 18 and the State Funeral on Monday 19 of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, in response to the invitations received in his capacity as former Head of State.

https://www.casareal.es/ES/Actividades/Paginas/actividades_actividades_detalle.aspx?data=15479

 

[Izzie]

Either the UK Foreign Office made a mistake (as the Danes suggested), or the British and the Danes have different interpretations on what the correct protocol should be in this case. Either way, the use of the qualifier "regrettable" suugests to me that the Danes took it as an offense. But it is water under the bridge now.



By the way, I could not find any official confirmation that King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia will attend the funeral. Are they really going to be there?


I am assuming that King Albert and Queen Paola will not attend , or else we would have had confirmation from the Belgian court already.

The Danes didn't suggest it. The British Foreign Ministry ADMITTED it. The DRF accepted the invitation as it was presented to them. Not their fault the British FM screwed up and now has to backtrack and technically UNINVITE the Crown Princess. But I figured the spinning and excuses would come rapidly. I wonder how some would react if the situations were reversed? How quick would that water flow under the bridge? I'm sure the word offended would be an understatement in THAT case.

 

[Mbruno]

The Danes didn't suggest it. The British Foreign Ministry ADMITTED it. The DRF accepted the invitation as it was presented to them. Not their fault the British FM screwed up and now has to backtrack and technically UNINVITE the Crown Princess. But I figured the spinning and excuses would come rapidly. I wonder how some would react if the situations were reversed? How quick would that water flow under the bridge? I'm sure the word offended would be an understatement in THAT case.

I haven't followed all the details, but so far I have seen a Danish note saying that there was a regrettable error by the UK Foreign Office protocol. Could you please provide the reference where the FCO admits that it was indeed a mistake?