Tsar Nicholas II (1868-1918) and Empress Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix) (1872-1918)

[persian85033]

I thought Victoria Melita was her first cousin? And sister in law when she married Ernie.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Victoria Melita was Alix's first cousin and did become her sister-in-law when she married Ernie.

 

[EmpressRouge]

Victoria Melita was Alix's first cousin and did become her sister-in-law when she married Ernie.

They were indeed first cousins through Queen Victoria, but Alix and VM were also second cousins through Wilhelmine of Baden, Grand Duchess of Hesse.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Let me know if/when you find them, Russo!! And WHERE.
I had always heard that Marie Mignon was possibly Grand Duke Boris' child.... How funny Marie Mignon was a double first cousin to her Cyril cousins... eh?

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Victoria Melita was Alix's first cousin and did become her sister-in-law when she married Ernie.

She was also Nicholas' first cousin through Alexander II of Russia

 

[pamela18335]

I've read this entire thread, and it's been fascinating.

There are some things I'd like to mention about Alix. First, she was a devout Lutheran, and her hesitation regarding marrying Nicky was based on her hesitancy regarding the need to convert to Orthodoxy. When she was finally coaxed into conversion, she really went "whole hog", as many converts do. Her immersion in Orthodoxy and its mysticism made those who had been born to Orthodoxy very uncomfortable. Not to mention her disapproval of the racier Russian court whose ladies displayed far more of their skin than she was used to, and whose dalliances were perhaps less than discrete!

It's awfully unfair to compare Alix with Minnie, who went to Russia as Tsarevna, and had many years to assimilate before becoming Tsaritsa. Nor did Minnie have the terrible shadow (to the Russian people) of coming to Russia "behind a coffin" as Alix did. I think that being fully open about Alexei's hemophilia might have only confirmed that perception to the Russian people.

I'm afraid that both Nicky and Alix were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that is their tragedy.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

While I agree that anyone following Minnie would be at a disadvantage, from everything I've read, both by admirers and critics of Alexandra, it is doubtful Alexandra would have been embraced by the public even if she had time to assimilate before becoming Empress. I just don't think it was in her nature to be warm and affectionate.

 

[pamela18335]

Vasillisos, I agree with your assessment. Alix was shy and reserved, whereas Minnie was outgoing and extroverted. However, I think had Alix not had the pressure of going into Russia directly as Empress, had she had time to become more fluent in Russian (a difficult language, from my own experience!) and had she not had the pressure to produce an heir (where Minnie had an heir and two spares!), perhaps her lot would have been less arduous. The fact that she was German didn't help much, either, unfortunately.

 

[COUNTESS]

While I agree that anyone following Minnie would be at a disadvantage, from everything I've read, both by admirers and critics of Alexandra, it is doubtful Alexandra would have been embraced by the public even if she had time to assimilate before becoming Empress. I just don't think it was in her nature to be warm and affectionate.

Your assessment is absolutely right. She was shy and cold by nature. It wasn't her fault. That's who she was. She wasn't suited to the job. She had a obsessive nature, making her conversion from being a Lutheran to being Orthodox to become of big focus in her life. Her, overly, religious fervor, turned the aristocracy away. She didn't make many friends.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Countess and Pamela-- I agree with both of you, and it is true Pamela that Alexandra was hampered by her sudden accession to the throne without a chance to live in Russia for years before taking on so public a role. But like Countess points out, it just was not in Alexandra's nature to perform such a crucial and public job as consort. It is difficult, if not impossible, to find a single photograph where she looks happy or even content. While many people did not smile because it took so long for the photograph to be taken, you can see merriment or happiness in the eyes but not when you look at Alexandra. And I am not just writing about her photographs as Empress, I also include her photographs as a teenager and young woman before marrying Nicholas.

 

[pamela18335]

Ducky was the family nickname for Princess Victoria Melita of Edinburgh, who was one of the daughters of Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh and therefore a granddaughter of Queen Victoria. Ducky first married Ernest Louis, Grand Duke of Hesse (and Alix's brother). She later divorced him, and married Grand Duke Kyril Vladimirovich of Russia.

 

[Duchessmary]

One has to remember that Alix suffered a major tradegy as a young girl~most of her family, including her mother, wiped out by a diptheria epidemic. Horrible.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Yes, it was horrible, Duchessmary, but others in her family managed to cope and were not as icy and remote as Alexandra. Indeed, many were known for their nice personalities. Perhaps the tragedy of losing her mother at a young age enhanced her frostiness, rather than the death of Princess Alice being the cause of Alexandra's remoteness.

 

[Furienna]

Nicholas and George V when together, were often mistaken for one another by family and courtiers. Their mothers as sisters had a strking resemblance to one another so it is understandable the two rulers resembled each other.

I sure can understand, that they were mistaken for each other (especially when they both had the same hairstyle and beard, as seen in the photo, that Dralcoffin posted).

 

[Furienna]

Yes, it was horrible, Duchessmary, but others in her family managed to cope and were not as icy and remote as Alexandra. Indeed, many were known for their nice personalities. Perhaps the tragedy of losing her mother at a young age enhanced her frostiness, rather than the death of Princess Alice being the cause of Alexandra's remoteness.

But different people, even two siblings, can react to the same tragedy in different ways. I don't know if Alexandra became frosty because she lost most of her family, but maybe it was a part of it.

 

[COUNTESS]

I'm confused. She lost her mother, not most of her family.

 

[Russophile]

I'm confused. She lost her mother, not most of her family.

And May, was it? The baby of the family.

Russo just got back from a cruise to Alaska. One stop was Sitka where they have a Russian Orthodox church there. Inside that church are icons GALORE! Russo took many pics and as soon as the lap top transfers them over will post. The reasoning behind this is the way the icons were EVERYWHERE. I remember reading in "Born to Rule" Alix had icons covering a wall in her room. I looked at those icons and I could see how she went over board in her devotion. It's almost like someone taking astrology to the nth degree.

 

[Marengo]

I'm confused. She lost her mother, not most of her family.

An older brother also died (prince Friedrich -who fell from the window), but Alix was 1 years old at the time so that wouldn't have stayed in her mind. Her younger sister Marie died in 1878, when Alix was 6, so that must have an impression...

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Erickson cites letters or diary entries written by Alexandra where she muses about the loss of people in her life and its affect on her, but although she mentions the death of May several years later, and the loss of her father, Alexandra does not mention once the death of Princess Alice. Curious.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Russo dear, Looking forward to seeing your photographs. My better half is Greek Orthodox and several icons occupy wall space in one corner of the bedroom. A friend of mine asked about this "fetish." They can be a little overwhelming

 

[COUNTESS]

Icons are beautiful. But that is not what took over her life. I have done that cruise, too. She didn't lose "Most" of her family. She was too young to remember a brother who died when she was one. Yes, the loss of her mother would be traumatic and, perhaps, the death of her bother might have lingered with her, but she was 6. I lost a sister when I was 15 and my father and first husband died 1 month to the day apart when I was 47, but I went on with life, as most people do. I do not think this accounts for her dour and cold personality.

 

[pamela18335]

Countess, forgive me, but I believe you are being just a bit cold here. Alix lost her sister May on November 15th and her mother on December 14th, both to diphtheria. At 6, she was quite old enough to understand those losses, especially that of her mother. To compare a six-year-old's reaction to two close deaths with that of a 47 year-old is unfair. At 47, you recognize that death is a part of life; at 6 you do not. For those who insist that she was inherently cold, please remember that her nickname in the family (given before her mother's death) was "Sunny", based on her temperament. That surely says something about the young Alix, at least, it does to me.

 

[pamela18335]

Erickson cites letters or diary entries written by Alexandra where she muses about the loss of people in her life and its affect on her, but although she mentions the death of May several years later, and the loss of her father, Alexandra does not mention once the death of Princess Alice. Curious.

Vasilliosos, not necessarily. The loss of her mother could have been SO painful to her that she found it impossible to discuss with others, even within her own diaries.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Pamela, Your theory may be right. But I still find it strange that she could mention missing May when she was older but not mention her mother. Maybe it is suppressed anger at Alice "leaving" her as a young child that also caused her to omit mentioning her mother. Grief can take many forms.

 

[pamela18335]

Interesting thought, Vasillisos, thank you!

 

[pamela18335]

Alix and the Autocracy

I've got another question for all of you.

After her mother's death, Alix spent a good deal of time with her grandmother, Queen Victoria. Victoria was the pre-eminent monarch of her day, and reigned as a constitution monarch. While a bit stodgy and set in her ways, Victoria was a realistic woman (Prince Albert aside) and rather forward-looking. Consider how she and Albert prepared Vicky to be Frederick of Prussia's consort, and the plans that couple had to bring reform to the Prussian Empire.

Why then, with that background, did Alix so embrace the concept of autocracy when she married Nicky? Given her influence on Nicky, imagine what might have been had she gently prodded him toward continuing his grandfather's path toward reform!

 

[COUNTESS]

That is an excellent question. I, think, Alix's personality was one cause. She was morose and shy. She loved Nicholas a great deal and felt that autocracy was his due. She had few initmate friends in Russia and she surrounded herself with religious zealots and intolerant courtiers. Vikky was very intelligent and learned and understood the lesson of the changing world, I, think, Alexandra was overly bright and stuck to her guns out of fear.

 

[EmpressRouge]

I think Alix's deep sense of morality played into it, and remember Prince Albert was often called a prude. She found the Russian court morally loose and felt she and Nicky were everyone's moral superiors. Perhaps this reinforced the ideas Nicky already had about absolute rule that came from his father and tutor. Some Romanovs had more liberal views but also lead liberal personal lives as well, so they were not to be trusted with political decisions if their they were scandalous in private. So Nicky was, in Alix's eyes, the best autocrat there could be: he had birthright and morally upstanding character.

 

[pamela18335]

Countess, EmpressRouge, I can't tell you what a joy it is to be part of a forum where the contributors are so erudite and thoughtful! I must add Russophile, MAfan and Vaillisos to that list. I've participated in other forums where the discussions have been so shallow and superficial as to be quintessentially frustrating and no one seems to have a good grasp of either the history or the personalities involved. The Russian Imperial family, especially the penultimate and ultimate generations prior to the revolution, has been a passion of mine for years, and you all just continue to add to my pleasure. Thank you all so much!

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I think Alix wanted to support her husband and believed that the Russian people, not necessarily the aristocracy which she did not like, wanted a strong hand to rule them. It was her belief in her husband, and his autocratic powers, which probably blinded her to the reality that despotic reigns rarely end well and would have prevented her from embracing a constitutional monarchy. However, if Nicholas had been so inclined to move in that direction, she probably would have supported him. I think that if Alexander, Nicholas' father, had continued on the path of reform as his father had, Nicholas might have done so but because Alexander was an autocrat, Nicholas wanted to be one too.