Tsar Nicholas II (1868-1918) and Empress Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix) (1872-1918)

[persian85033]

Alix wanted precedence over Minnie, as she was the reigning empress and everything, which is understandable, imo. However, she disliked going out in public, she wanted things done HER way, I think. More like they had been done in her grandmother's court and stuff, and not according to Russian custom.

 

[Russophile]

Alix forgot the lesson Minnie learned so well of When in Rome. . . .

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Alexandra was a whiny, spoiled, immature, brattish woman. Had she truly care for Nicky's welfare and that of Russia... she would have, as Russo so wonderfully put it.... "When in Rome..."
Look at the success of Marie Feodorovna and Marie Pavlovna (Meichen)... both rather shy, unwordly young women who came to Russia and observed that was the custom and used it to their advantage...
Alix came... saw.... disapproved... then whined, turned up her nose, and openly disapproved....

Just a thought....

 

[persian85033]

She must have had some idea of what was expected of a tsarina, and about Russian customs. I mean, her sister was a grand duchess. I don't know why she married Nicky if he was the tsarevitch, and would most likely become tsar one day. I think she wanted to dominate him most.

 

[Russophile]

They were in love. And they stayed in love for all of their lives. Have you read their letters to each other Persian? Library would have that as well.
A Lifelong passion: N & A in their own words.
By Andrei Maylunas, Sergei Mironenko

 

[persian85033]

Yes, and their letters do show how much they cared for each other. But like what I mean is, Alix should have had SOME idea. It always seemed to me that she had absolutely no clue. I know how difficult it is, as I am very shy and nervous around people myself, but it never really seemed to me that she really made that big an effort. It does seem to me that she did want control over Nicky. I mean, being Nicky's wife was one thing, being a tsarina is something else, imo.

 

[Russophile]

She was well aware. She just didn't do it. She got frustrated, took her ball and went home.

 

[Hereditary Thane]

Perhaps being brought up so close to her maternal grandmother she was used to getting her own way, and on occasion even upstaging the queen-empress. She cared very much for her husband and her children; unfortunately for Russia she cared little about the country that had adopted her.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I don't think that is exactly true. She cared very much about Russia but did not care about the Russian nobility. However, she never embraced the country publicly or in a way which showed how she felt about Russia. Alix's reserve was picked up by the press as illustrating her contempt and this distorted view, coupled with her uneasiness in public, led to the general hatred of the masses. The government had to be toppled and Imperial Family was destroyed.

 

[kell]

i think people forget the days when the ministers proped her self esteem up by sending her fake letters from the people its very complex

 

[Duchessmary]

Don't forget that Alexis' hemophelia was the center of her life, and caring for him. After his bleeding episodes, she collapsed in exhaustion.

 

[COUNTESS]

She was stilted and cold. She was of the mind that she and her husband were God chosen. She had no people skills. She had problems. She wasn't suited to Minnie's warm and frivolous demeanor. She should have become something that didn't have to be with and give to people.

 

[persian85033]

Yes, she had no people skills. I think she also judged people. I mean, if someone was wearing their dress in a way she didn't like, well, like she said, that's how they wear their dresses in Russia. Period. Alix didn't like it, she'll have to deal with it. It's no surprise people eventually gave up on her, I think.

The way she raised her daughters wasn't exactly healthy, either. I mean, I've read that they were, like Olga twenty one, and still acting like a ten year old girl, she never saw other people her age. I'm not saying she didn't love or care about her daughters, because she did, and I do think she was a good mother, just must not take things so extreme. That's one of the reasons I say she wanted total control.

I do understand that she didn't like many of the nobility, and thought they were a bad influence. But they were, after all, her daughters' family. Alix was extremely troubled, I think.

 

[Hereditary Thane]

Anyone who tried to help and advise her were thwarted and even ostracised, even her own blood kindred who had also married into the Romanov clan. She judged people unmericifully. A sad woman or an indifferent one?

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

A melancholy woman, by nature and environment (the loss of her mother at a young age), coupled with shyness and reserve, lacking the ability to converse freely with people, made her a miserable consort and one ill-suited to be the wife of an autocrat. Good wife and mother, but a lousy political figure.

 

[persian85033]

Too true, she kicked out her own sister, Ella. It's really not surprising that there were two courts, one, Minnie's, the other, Alix's, and why most people liked Minnie's. Not only was it more traditional and glamourous, I guess you could say, but Minnie didn't treat people the way Alix did.

She did not want people to judge Rasputin, yet she judged everyone else.

 

[Russophile]

Too true, she kicked out her own sister, Ella. It's really not surprising that there were two courts, one, Minnie's, the other, Alix's, and why most people liked Minnie's.

Don't forget there was another: Miechen's.

 

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi Russophile,

Yes, that's just what I was going to say - don't forget Aunt Meichen!!!

And, I really don't think one could call Alix's situation "a Court" but more of an enlarged enclave of only a few intimates.
She was very introverted in a large court setting and certainly avoided anything over 20 people (just a guesstomate!!)......

The scene in "Nicholas and Alexandra" at the Dowager Empress' birthday party shows how Alexandra retired to an alcove and Minnie danced the night away....

Larry

 

[Hereditary Thane]

Alix's failings were many. We are told she was very religious and one should never pry into conscience, so I accept that as being a personal facet of her character. On the other hand, her mother in law cared more for ostentation and material goods, it is a wonder the British war ship sent to rescue her didn't sink with all the booty she escaped with.

 

[Russophile]

You are quite right, Larry, and I just read how it came about: after Ducky and Kyril's marriage and subsequent banishment. When GD Vladimir died she went into full force. This from the Sullivan book on Ducky.

 

[persian85033]

On the other hand, her mother in law cared more for ostentation and material goods, it is a wonder the British war ship sent to rescue her didn't sink with all the booty she escaped with.

She did escape with a lot.

 

[snowflower]

Don't forget that Alexis' hemophelia was the center of her life, and caring for him. After his bleeding episodes, she collapsed in exhaustion.

I don't think that anyone could forget that Alexei's haemophilia has shaped in many ways Alix's world and behaviour. I understand that it must be horrible horrible for any mother to live under constant fear that her child might bleed to death almost without a warning. On the other hand, I can't also stop thinking that her sister Irene had also passed the haemophilia gene not to one but two of her three sons, Waldemar and Heinrich and the youngest one Heinrich died from it at an early age. Still, even after Heinrich' death, she seemed to deal with Waldemar's haemophilia in a less stresfull way that Alix dealed with Alexei's .

 

[COUNTESS]

Alix was dour, overly religious and self-righteous. She was intolerant. Yes, she suffered with a very sick child, but many other coped with worse situations. Actually, she made the situation worse. She was the antithesis of the kind of wife Nicholas really needed.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I'd read in a book years ago (unfortunately, I can't remember the name of it) that the Tsarina cried and cried and cried during her engagement. Perhaps there was something there besides "pre-wedding nerves."

 

[Russophile]

Alix was dour, overly religious and self-righteous. She was intolerant. Yes, she suffered with a very sick child, but many other coped with worse situations. Actually, she made the situation worse. She was the antithesis of the kind of wife Nicholas really needed.

Currently reading "Born to Rule". Seems that the granddaughters weren't made of as stern stuff. The engagement was the only thing Nicky put his foot down on.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Yes, and look what came out of that. At the time, it seemed quite romantic that Nicky withstood his parents' opposition to the match but it becomes another fascinating "what if" of history to wonder what would have happened if Nicky never married Alix? No hemophilia in the royal family, no Rasputin and maybe no revolution (but the Russian monarchy still needed to change its ways, so revolution may have come regardless of any marriage between Nicky and whomever).

 

[snowflower]

Nicholas didn't have the stomach to be an autocrat regardless whom he had married. Russia was medieval in many ways and lets not forget the vast majority was living in awfull conditions. The Russian Empire was doomed IMO. If Alix hadn't existed in Nicholas' life the big difference regarding the revolution would be that Nicholas would probably had managed to walk out of Russia exiled with his family and alive. Nevertheless, it's amazing the fact that they were each other perfect mate. Even in exile that bond never broke.

 

[Russophile]

I'm at the part in the book where they described the bedroom and mauve room of the Alexander palace. I KNEW Alexandra was religious. I KNEW she was pious though I was not prepared for the description of the many, many icons everywhere. Seems she just went nuts over the Russian Orthodox Religion.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Alix certainly went nuts over orthodoxy and Ella, Grand Duchess Serge, was similar, even selling off her worldly goods to start a convent. Prince Phillip's mother, the niece of Alix and Ella, had a similar immersion into religion, although in Alice's case, it did not take hold entirely.

I am currently finishing Carolly Erickson's bio of Alix. It is pretty good. I liked Born to Rule because not only is it a fresh look at Alix, it gives the histories of Marie of Rumania, Maud of Norway, Sophie of Greece, and Ena of Spain, all granddaughters of QV.

 

[Russophile]

I read Warwick's bio. on Ella and it seemed that when Serge died she went into another phase of her life and served, like her mother did. Alix, well, I don't know about that. It seemed like Alix lost a grip on reality almost. Or like some people who are "saved" HALLELUJAH! PRAISE GOD! And they become fanatical. They talk about it incessantly. . . .

BOrn to Rule has whetted my appetite with Maud. I think she's rather cheeky. I did NOT know about Marie and Boris' baby Mignon. I'll bet Alix and Nicky got wind of that and when he threw his hat into the ring for Olga's hand is why they poo-pooed it.