The Future of the Danish Monarchy

[ricarda]

Dear DukeofAster, as far as I am concerned, Queen Margrethe can stay on the throne as long as she wants. I will not make her go against her principles. And I think F&M's children are too young now.

I was simply expressing my opinions.

katia_sophia, as I was counting the events last year I can tell that Frederik came in 2nd after Queen MII (and a lot of her events are those which come automatically when you are monarch, audiences etc.). He was regent for 41 days and seemed to manage. And he certainly will be a kind king who cares most about his people and IMO can connect better with them than his mother, the current Queen.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

I suppose it doesn't matter what our opinion is, I think Margrethe follows her own mind. She might consider the thoughts of the Danish people however, but I think she'll remain for the time being.

We don't know what tomorrow brings for any of us. Look at Friso in the Netherlands or the late Princess Diana.

 

[polyesco]

Dear DukeofAster, as far as I am concerned, Queen Margrethe can stay on the throne as long as she wants. I will not make her go against her principles. And I think F&M's children are too young now.

I was simply expressing my opinions.

katia_sophia, as I was counting the events last year I can tell that Frederik came in 2nd after Queen MII (and a lot of her events are those which come automatically when you are monarch, audiences etc.). He was regent for 41 days and seemed to manage. And he certainly will be a kind king who cares most about his people and IMO can connect better with them than his mother, the current Queen.

I agree.
I think Frederik will be great as King. Just like Margrethe is great as Queen now. they both have different strengths IMO.

I just dont see Margrethe abdicating unless something big happens (health wise, Henrik, etc.)
Plus it would be nice for the F&M kids to be a bit older before their parents become king and queen

 

[vkrish]

Now I see people are going with the flow on the topic of abdication, mostly emotional. But I firmly believe in "Monarchy till death". Here are a few points I wll like to make:

1. Who will exactly decide the age or time to abdicate? It is toltally the discretion of the monarch. People bring so many factors into it..Like the heir is old enough? The heir's kids are old enough? Is the heir suitable?
There is never a total agreement on these things.. So abdication is not "natural"

2.Constitutional monarchy is not ideal place for discretions/decisions. You are not a monarch because you wanted. You are one, just because you are born into it. And you continue in that as long as you are supposed to continue..
Just like everything is "By the Grace/Will of God".

PS: I respect the Dutch tradition and the QUeen's decision, but I dont like all other Royal family threads being flooded with calls to follow suite, especially Danish and Spanish (People seem to have stopped expecting EII to abdicate)

3.It is not right to say people becoming monarchs at old age will be less popular. They dont suddenly come out of blue when they are in 70s. They have been in public eye for several decades, get enough oppurtunity to do some "real work" for their nation, and make their mark.
In fact, monarchs are always best as father-figures, someone we can respect and revere, rather than someone we wanna party with.

 

[Lumutqueen]

1. Who will exactly decide the age or time to abdicate? It is toltally the discretion of the monarch. People bring so many factors into it..Like the heir is old enough? The heir's kids are old enough? Is the heir suitable?
There is never a total agreement on these things.. So abdication is not "natural"

2.Constitutional monarchy is not ideal place for discretions/decisions. You are not a monarch because you wanted. You are one, just because you are born into it. And you continue in that as long as you are supposed to continue..
Just like everything is "By the Grace/Will of God".

PS: respect the Dutch tradition and the QUeen's decision, but I dont like all other Royal family threads being flooded with calls to follow suite, especially Danish and Spanish (People seem to have stopped expecting EII to abdicate)
.

Doesn't matter if the heir's old enough, suitable or what age the heir's kids are. Beatrix could have died when WA was 8, and he would have been King then, albeit with a regent. Death isn't planned like an abdication, so I think heirs would prefer a little notice to having bereavement and enthronement thrust upon them in the same day.

God gave us such a thing as free will, Monarchs were born into their royal but everything they do after that is up to them. Every abdicating monarch has their reasons, mostly family related - look what Beatrix has been through this year.

There are reasons why the Spanish King is being called to abdicate, as for other threads it's just a discussion.

 

[NGalitzine]

Even in the Netherlands. From 1849-1865 there where Queen Sophie and Queen Anna Pavlovna the widow of Willem II. And from 1890-1934 there where Queen Wilhelmina and Queen Mother Emma.

Of the ladies you mention only Wilhemina was Queen Regnant. The other ladies were Queen Consorts and Queen Dowagers, with Emma also being Regent for 10 years. It was Wilhemina's personal choice to revert to the title of Princess, now it is the law that an abdicated monarch reverts to prince/princess. Upon abdication they are constitutionally dead, no longer queen.

 

[Viv]

Why should it be on proclaimed from Amalienborg? It is after at Christiansborg that the Prime Minister and
the government has its place (til huse)

I'll second that! Christiansborg is the seat of the parliament, while Amalienborg is a residence. King Frederik X and Queen Mary and the
kids might decide to appear on the balcony after the proclamation at Christiansborg, but it would mainly be for the benefit of the children
of the local kindergartens , a bit like the Queen's birthday!

Queen Beatrix's word about it being time that 'the next generation take over' must have hit home in various courts in Europe! Somehow I keep hearing Queen Margrethe's statement that she'll 'stay put till she falls of the perch'!

And a thought on the situation in Denmark:
While I concede that Queen Margrethe has been an excellent monarch
in many ways I'm increasingly convinced that CP Frederik should take
over in the not too distant future. Somehow she appears very
old-world-like these days! Most monarchies seem to have seen the
writing on the wall! The times are changing! Their reason d'etre is not
the grace of God but the grace of their people. While I won't deny
the monarchs the right of understanding their office as a vocation,
nowadays they are first and foremost servants of the people! I don't
know whether it's just me, but IMO the Danish RF have had so much
tail wind in recent years that it has blinded them to the fact that
other RFs are in the proces of redifining their roles in a post modern democracy.

Maybe CP Frederik lacks a bit in the maturity department, but then
again maybe the top job would be the best finishing school for him!
We don't need a repetition of the fate of CP Frederik VIII (1906-1912), who acceeded at 63.

Viv

 

[Tarlita]

I believe the only way Queen Margrethe will abdicate is if her health stops her from performing her duties. I remember Queen Juliana attending many official events after her abdication. So its not like an abdicated monarch will never be seen again. But long may Queen Margrethe reign. And I sincerely hope she enjoys good health for a great many years to come.

 

[nwinther]

For me, it's to the death.

However, if the monarch sees fit to have someone else (the heir apparant) do some of the jobs, then find by me. That way the Monarch can "retire" while not letting go altogether.

Also, one should not discount the possibility of dementia or other cognitive challenges arising as the monarch gets older. Then it will be the Heir Apparant's duty to take over as regent, if the monarch him-/herself doesn't manage to make that decision on his/her own.

 

[ricarda]

You mean he/she stays monarch, keeps the title and position but his/her heir does the work?
Seems quite unfair towards the heir (what if he dies first?). And would empty the title King/Queen of any meaning. Dangerous IMO, could lead to people saying: we can do without a king/queen.

 

[Muhler]

I agree. We shouldn't have a pseudo-monarch.

Let QMII and her generation sit out their reign, that's fine with me. But a reformation is needed, I believe.

When Fredeik become a king he ought to abdicate at 75-80. By then Christian will be in his 40's and hopefully established with a wife and his own little heir.
He would also be in his prime. And just as importantly he will know that in X years, barring a tragedy, he will take over. - And his father will still be around. He will not go through the heavy burden of becoming a king, while at the same time grieving for his father.

Christian will again retire around normal retirement age for his generation, say 85. By which time his heir will probably be in his/her 40's - and so on, and so on.

To me this sounds preferable to Frederik dying in say his 90's and Christian becoming king around the age of 60. And Christian dying at say 110 (which is not unlikely) with his heir being in his/her 70's.

 

[nwinther]

You mean he/she stays monarch, keeps the title and position but his/her heir does the work?
Seems quite unfair towards the heir (what if he dies first?). And would empty the title King/Queen of any meaning. Dangerous IMO, could lead to people saying: we can do without a king/queen.

This is already happening. Many things Frederik does could just as well have been the job of the Queen. It's quite natural as a person gets older, that they won't be able to do the jobs they used to. There's no shame in that.

The shame is when said person fail to realize his/her limitations and keep on keeping on.

But I still think monarch is a title for life. Even if the monarch becomes demented or anything, it becomes a matter for the next generation to lift the burden - until the monarch dies. Then, and only then, can he call himself King.

Besides, do we run around thinking "we could do without a queen" every time someone else is acting Regent? So what if it's on near-permanent basis?

This is what we always did and there's no reason to change it. Stability and continuity is the way forward, still.

 

[Mariel]

I admire the Luxembourgers, and they have a tradition of abdication when the monarch comes to an advanced (although not decrepit) age. So I consider this a good role model.
It should not mean the disappearance of the monarch who abdicated. He/she should still be prominent in public ceremonies, as have the monarchs of Luxembourg. Old GD Jean is still apparent in public at an age over 90, even held up by a cane.

 

[kathia_sophia]

You mean he/she stays monarch, keeps the title and position but his/her heir does the work?
Seems quite unfair towards the heir (what if he dies first?). And would empty the title King/Queen of any meaning. Dangerous IMO, could lead to people saying: we can do without a king/queen.

yes it is unfair to the heir, but i think this is a very possible scenario. Monarchs that their belief is to die on the throne, if they happen to have some serious mental or physical problem, they will not abdicate but they will let the heir do the work...the heir will do the Monarch's work until he/she dies and finally the heir is officially a Monarch himself.

i think the Liechenstein has a similar situation, Reigning Prince Hans (though he's capable yet) passed his work to his son and heir Prince Alois, so Prince Alois acts as a reigning prince but he is not officially, not until his father dies (or abdicate).

 

[Flowerbed]

I hope this is the right place to put this.

A new poll published in Søndagsavisen has shown that the Danes' support of the monarchy has increased for the first time in 21 years. It's not a poll about the popularity of the individual members of the royal family, but whether the respondents thought Denmark should be a monarchy or a republic.

In the last poll in 2009, 45% preferred a monarchy, today it's 58%. 31% would prefer a republic (down from 34%), the rest didn't know.

In popularity polls the percentage is higher for most members of the royal family and has been for a long time. As several known supporters of a republic have stated, they have nothing against Margrethe, they just prefer another form of government.

A historian and royal expert says in the article, that the financial crisis is part of the reason behind the increased support of a monarchy, as people need something positive to rally around, in order to take their mind of the crisis. All those babies make for positive stories, and there are now so many members of the royal family that they appeal to a lot of different people. In addition the royal family does a really good job, they've avoided major scandals and they have managed to cross societal divides like income, culture and religion, so all parts of society can say it's "their royal family".

 

[MaggieDenmark]

you can also find an online article about the poll at berlingske website: more people support mary and co.: b.dk.

 

[nwinther]

I find it remarkable that only 50% supports the monarchy - and that 31% prefer a republic.

In my immidiate circle of associates and family, there's one, ONE! republican.

Where are the rest?

 

[grevinnan]

They will be very noticeable when the Queen abdicate/dies.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

I don't know, those numbers where rather "shocking" to me. While they say that 58% is a high number (according to Søndagsavisen "the highest in years"), take a look at this article/poll made for Politiken back in 2011. Back then there was an immense 77% support of the monarchy and only 16% of the Danes asked were against it. That's a drop on almost 20% over just two years. I consider Politiken a quite legitimate source, and I think that drop is quite disturbing, but that might just be me overreacting.

 

[NGalitzine]

It would be interesting to know the methodology used by both polls. It is often commented on how low the popularity of the monarchy was when QMII came to the throne in 1972 and how during her reign the monarchy has become much more popular. There must be a difference in question, sampling or methodology between Politiken and Yougov to get such disparate results since there does not seem to have been any major royal scandals in Denmark and individual family members seem very popular.

 

[Flowerbed]

It says in Søndagsavisen, that the question was put in way to specifically isolate the support of the monarchy from the popularity and support of the royal family (which is the main difference between this poll and the one showing a 77% approval rating). It's old news that the royal family itself is very popular, but since 1992 polls about the support of a monarchy as the best form of government have shown a decline until this poll.
However, it doesn't state exactly how the question was worded.

And in my opinion there is a very big difference between thinking another form of government might have some advantages and actually wanting to abolish the current one. Especially since the current form of government isn't doing too badly. The Danish monarchy is definitely not in any immediate danger of being abolished.

 

[Warren]

Members who may have been engrossed in the shocking revelations of the conspiracy to foist Mary upon an unwilling Frederik by the combined Catholic-Jewish-Masonic-yacht club-business networks-police-political leaders-Women's Weekly magazine plotters based in Sydney will be disappointed, but not surprised, to learn that this discussion has been abruptly terminated.

Proof enough, if any were needed, of the reach and power of these malevolent dark forces!

Warren
TRF Admin
Sydney, Australia ...

 

[casualfan]

Seriously one of the funniest things I've ever read. Thank you!
.

 

[Muhler]

The papers BT and Berlinske Tidende have published the results of a new survey by Gallup: Gallup: Danskerne knus-elsker kongehuset - Danmark | www.bt.dk

Very brief: 83 % are in favour of the monarchy, 82 % believe the monarchy is beneficial to DK.

Slightly surprising, or perhaps not, is that those who approve are also to be found among those who will vote for the Unity List. Which until very recently basically consisted of communists.
Actually I don't find it that surprising, because the Unity List has had a huge influx recently of members who would otherwise vote for the other two socialist parties, who also happens to be a part of the government coalition. However as the government appears to be determined to p*ss off their core voters as much as possible, the voters basically only have three options:
A: Transfer their votes to either the Unity List on the extreme left.
B: Or vote for the Danish People's Party, who are basically extreme right wing nationalist Social Democrats with a xenofobic streak.
C: Stay home at the next election and sign off from the political process.

Another figure worth noting in the survey is that 48 % believe too much money is spend on the monarchy. Presumably in the light of the severe cutback and reforms carried out by the government. So why shouldn't the DRF cut back as well?

The royal expert Lars Hovbakke Sørensen has been asked to comment and a thing he mentions is I think worth noting. The European monarchies have in the wake of the financial crisis experienced an ever increasing approval rating. The old story: When times are hard, you rally around traditional institutions that provides an anchor in a troubled world.

 

[Eden]

Thanks for the report Muhler. I have always believed the monarchy serves an historic purpose and provides a link to tradition that we sometimes lack in the age of Facebook, Instagram and reality TV. It's also a responsibility the royals should take seriously and use this time to set an example. One of hard work and of compassion. Just my thoughts

 

[Jacknch]

Yes, this report for me is very interesting on two counts: the first being that I take heart from the fact that at least the UK is not he only country in Europe where voters are stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of quality and choice of options concerning who to vote for. The second thing being that it follows quite naturally that the popularity of an ancient, ever present institution such as a monarchy will increase at times where society need something secure and comforting.

 

[Blog Real]

I don't know, those numbers where rather "shocking" to me. While they say that 58% is a high number (according to Søndagsavisen "the highest in years"), take a look at this article/poll made for Politiken back in 2011. Back then there was an immense 77% support of the monarchy and only 16% of the Danes asked were against it. That's a drop on almost 20% over just two years. I consider Politiken a quite legitimate source, and I think that drop is quite disturbing, but that might just be me overreacting.

The monarchy in Denmark is very popular. And in the News says that the popularity is 83%. Read the news: http://www.billedbladet.dk/kongelige/danmark/kongehusets-popularitet-stiger-markant

 

[Blog Real]

Is there any possibility that the Queen abdicate?

I like the Queen. But I wanted to see Frederik and Mary Kings soon.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

No, Queen Margrethe II will not abdicate, nor will the monarchs in UK, Japan and Norway.

I will never leave the throne.
https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=...=JnC6ZTbLg8aIp8viq3Eu1w&bvm=bv.69411363,d.bGE

 

[Terri Terri]

As much as I would love to see Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary become King and Queen of Denmark...it has to be accepted that abdication is not a tradition in Denmark and I would be in shock if it ever happens.
Unlike in the Netherlands, where abdication is normal for the dutch monarchy; In Belgium and Spain - there were the health problems and scandals of the previous Kings, there is no abdication tradition in Denmark or scandals surrounding Queen Margrethe or the DRF. Even if she becomes seriously ill, Crown Prince Frederik will become regent only. I find it hard to believe that she will ever abdicate. In that sense, I compare Queen Margrethe with Queen Elizabeth II - the 2 remaining European Queen Regnants.