The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021

[Osipi]

There's no doubt that she got a roasting from the press, as many female married ins do. Although before and after the wedding it was mainly positive. Their press really started to go down after the Baby Shower, the kerfuffle of Archie's birth and things like Harry taking a private Jet to Google Camp. Along with stories like Tiara-gate - stories that Scobie has confirmed were true but gave his own spin to make them look good.

That said, the fact that they needed to fake headlines for the Oprah interview and bring in non British tabloids doesn't help their case that the press was terrible. I think Social media was worse for them but then again they have their ardent defenders there as well.

I think they should have done what they claimed to do and not read the press good or bad. I couldn't believe it when Harry made it clear he was reading the DM comments sections.

If they needed to leave for their mental health that's fine and I have no problem with that. The way they did it was awful though, and they made it clear they wanted to keep the glamourous, fun parts of being a royal. They also made it clear that they still want to control the narrative about themselves, and silence any criticism which is impossible. You can't expect glowing press 100% of the time when you're determined to be a public figure.

I guess that reading what is printed about you is something hard to resist. I really thought that Meghan would be able to handle the tabloid press when she stated in the Vanity Fair article "Wild About Harry" that she doesn't pay attention to the "noise". Obviously the both of them did.

 

[ACO]

I think it is also wise to remember that a lot of this nastiness was happening when Meghan was pregnant and postpartum. It seems the press really started gunning for her the moment her pregnancy was announced. That can be a challenging time for any woman but add the over the top bile thrown her direction didn't help. The media mostly left Kate alone when she was pregnant. They did the opposite with Meghan. And I certainly don't recall any of the Cambridge kids being publicly attacked within hours of their births. Both Sussex kids can bond over that. Anyways it is what it is.

 

[Osipi]

It was around that time when the press really started to get so very nasty about Meghan, her pregnancy and even the little things that really didn't amount to much such as how she cradled her "bump" and make it a big deal that I seriously stopped reading any articles because I recognized them for what they were. Click bait. I also cancelled my social media accounts because I didn't want to let that kind of stuff have rent free space in my head. I wish both Harry and Meghan had done the same and just got on with things and didn't let it affect them. Pregnancy and postpartum are both times where hormones and emotions are all over the place and all that crapola out there didn't help matters any.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I think it is also wise to remember that a lot of this nastiness was happening when Meghan was pregnant and postpartum. It seems the press really started gunning for her the moment her pregnancy was announced. That can be a challenging time for any woman but add the over the top bile thrown her direction didn't help. The media mostly left Kate alone when she was pregnant. They did the opposite with Meghan. And I certainly don't recall any of the Cambridge kids being publicly attacked within hours of their births. Both Sussex kids can bond over that. Anyways it is what it is.

Catherine's situation was different when she was pregnant with her first two because William and Catherine were not full-time royals when George and Charlotte were born. IIRC, he was still in the military when George was born and working as an air ambulance pilot when Charlotte was born.

No child should be attacked, ever. But a few comments by a small number of sick individuals does not excuse or justify Harry and Meghan's actions. They complain about what people say about them but at the same time, they feel they can say anything they want about their families. Where is their positivity? Why are they so miserable and angry? Why are they so determined to make their families miserable and angry too?

Queen Claude, thank you for your excellent post.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

This just reminds me that a lot of the media complaints seemed pretty petty and trivial to me at the time….and so did the vast majority of their complaints on Oprah. (Or vague and contradictory.)

Some were not- to be clear. But- it seems they got caught up in internalizing and focusing on a lot of petty things. Rather than ignoring them or just moving on and not making an issue out of it.

And- best I can tell- they still seem to, if Harry’s recent threat of legal action is any indicator. I’m not entirely clear on what the issue is about a couple of recent Times articles being the subject of a “legal complaint” by Meghan- and I don’t want to go OT in this thread- but they didn’t seem like big issues either. Unless I’m missing something. My main point is there is this tendency to focus on relatively small things.

 

[Curryong]

Not all the negative media stories about Meghan in her first year of marriage were trivial, or could be regarded as so. There were stories (some small things some not) that came out three times a day from online tabloids, day after day, week after week, month after month, all attacking Meghan and then Meghan and Harry in any way they could.

And for most of that time Meghan was without her mother and long term friends, in a new country and new way of life, pregnant and then with a new-born. One tiny ball of snow rolling down a mountain could be described as petty. When that ball gathers snow and speed and becomes an avalanche then it’s no longer so.

 

[Osipi]

Not all the negative media stories about Meghan in her first year of marriage were trivial, or could be regarded as so. There were stories (some small things some not) that came out three times a day from online tabloids, day after day, week after week, month after month, all attacking Meghan and then Meghan and Harry in any way they could.

And for most of that time Meghan was without her mother and long term friends, in a new country and new way of life, pregnant and then with a new-born. One tiny ball of snow rolling down a mountain could be described as petty. When that ball gathers snow and speed and becomes an avalanche then it’s no longer so.

Let me ask you a question. Do you honestly believe that Harry and Meghan's words and actions over the past two years have been acceptable and warranted? Do you believe they're the 100% victims that they portray themselves to be? Just curious here.

 

[Curryong]

No I don’t, Osipi. They were much too impulsive and inconsiderate in their actions in leaving royal life in early 2020 for instance.

But I also believe that the British Press were never fair to Meghan from the beginning, and Harry, who deeply loves his wife and is protective of her, was put on the defensive by their attitude. Nor do I believe that the grey suits at the Palace were completely favourable to Meghan either from the time she arrived as Harry’s wife. I certainly don’t believe the Palace line that everyone tried their hardest to ease her way into royal life.

Events occurred which made things sour very quickly, some on the Sussexes’ side and others not. Harry and Meghan certainly weren’t blameless in all of this, but they haven’t been 100% to blame for everything either. In most things in life when things go wrong there’s plenty of blame to go around. It shouldn’t all be heaped on one side. I believe that would be unjust, especially as we do not know the details of what went on.

 

[Osipi]

Beautifully said and I agree with most of what you've said. No one is coming out of this whole ungodly mess smelling like a rose. Things were handled badly probably on both sides and there may have been a lot of misunderstandings and too much third party supposing and opining and finger pointing.

The Sussexes lost me though when they went public with their interview with Oprah. Up until that point, I sincerely believed that leaving was their right to do as everyone has the right to live their lives as they choose to. I didn't agree at all with the methods they used in their January 8, 2020 "manifesto" to gain half in and half out but respected their decision to totally leave. I just really wish they had focused on where they were going and what they were going to do rather than make it a public spectacle trashing what they left behind. I feel that seriously damaged their reputation and their credibility far more than any tabloid news story ever could do.

 

[ladongas]

We’ve all made mistakes in life. But ordinarily we go on from there, making amends as best we can, and the mistakes are eventually in the rear view mirror. Those we love forgive us, those we dislike disappear without our caring about it, and our fresh start continues.

What doesn’t happen is that hundreds of thousands of strangers describe our mistakes ‘as they see them’ and repeat them, and embroider them in increasingly ugly fashion. There’s nothing Harry and Meghan, or the BRF, can say to stop the very public shouting. There will be awful things said about H&M, and their family, every day for years. It’s all very well to suggest that these voices be ignored... but anyone’s instinct is to fight back.

Nothing short of a warm and tender reunion with the Windsors will shut most people up. There is forgiveness needed on both sides. That’s what real families do. And with the possible exception of the Queen, a warm re-welcome will help every person involved. And the rest of us can then be quiet and leave them to it.

 

[Lee-Z]

Second this thought and i hope this goes for all the RF, so also for mistakes other royals may have made...

 

[Osipi]

One thing has pretty much been proven and that is giving interviews to a public audience about personal matters isn't the greatest of ideas and rarely solves any problems. We've seen this with the Panorama interview, Andrew's totally disastrous interview and now Harry and Meghan's with Oprah.

Just reminds me of an old WWII slogan "Loose lips sinks ships".

 

[Alison H]

There's an old adage about not washing your dirty linen in public. You'd think that Andrew, Harry and Meghan would all have learnt that after the fallout from the Charles and Diana interviews, but unfortunately it appears not. Let's hope that everyone else has.

 

[Heavs]

We’ve all made mistakes in life. But ordinarily we go on from there, making amends as best we can, and the mistakes are eventually in the rear view mirror. Those we love forgive us, those we dislike disappear without our caring about it, and our fresh start continues.

What doesn’t happen is that hundreds of thousands of strangers describe our mistakes ‘as they see them’ and repeat them, and embroider them in increasingly ugly fashion. There’s nothing Harry and Meghan, or the BRF, can say to stop the very public shouting. There will be awful things said about H&M, and their family, every day for years. It’s all very well to suggest that these voices be ignored... but anyone’s instinct is to fight back.

Nothing short of a warm and tender reunion with the Windsors will shut most people up. There is forgiveness needed on both sides. That’s what real families do. And with the possible exception of the Queen, a warm re-welcome will help every person involved. And the rest of us can then be quiet and leave them to it.

I can definitely understand the urge to fight back, it's natural. But half they things they've started suing over have only made the situation worse.

Like I said, the things I think about Harry and Meghan haven't come from tabloid rumours they've come directly from things they've said to camera that have proven to be lies or meaningless word salad.

Most of the royal family have had lies printed about them in the past. Before his marriage Edward had to face what would nowadays be considered homophobic hate speak headlines, Princess Anne couldn't buy a good headline for decades but they didn't give interviews complaining about it and now (especially Anne) becoming more popular.

Harry and Meghan are the ones that have actively *wanted* the world involved in this family argument, to use the media and public to get what they wanted, that's the only reason they went on Oprah, when as Osipi said they didn't even mention any of their projects and plans for the future.

I actually do hope they work it out both for personal and professional reasons but I don't really see a warm reunion happening any time soon.

 

[_Heather_]

... but anyone’s instinct is to fight back.

That's very true, it is generally instinct to fight back. It's human nature. However, most adults, and especially those with some experience in the business world or in the world of almost constant rejection known as show-business, have learned to check our worst instincts and step back and think about the impact that what we're about to do will have. Most people with a background like Harry and Meghan's or people who are routinely in the public eye know that you simply can't win 'em all and they know that giving the press the reaction they want just fans the flames and pours gasoline on the fire and, with some notable exceptions, they generally work hard to curb those impulses to fight back. These two chose not to think before they acted and instead they dumped a whole tank's worth of gasoline on those fires. I think most of us can understand the urge to fight back but most rational and experienced adults will tell you, and rightly so, that it's often times not a good idea to fight back without thinking it through carefully first. The constant threats to sue and screaming from the rooftops from both these two and their mouthpieces really isn't serving them well, it's only serving to make them appear to be spoiled and angry toddlers who are stamping their feet and passive aggressively sighing until someone pretends to take them seriously long enough to make a little money or publicity off of them and their tantrums.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

We’ve all made mistakes in life. But ordinarily we go on from there, making amends as best we can, and the mistakes are eventually in the rear view mirror. Those we love forgive us, those we dislike disappear without our caring about it, and our fresh start continues.

What doesn’t happen is that hundreds of thousands of strangers describe our mistakes ‘as they see them’ and repeat them, and embroider them in increasingly ugly fashion. There’s nothing Harry and Meghan, or the BRF, can say to stop the very public shouting. There will be awful things said about H&M, and their family, every day for years. It’s all very well to suggest that these voices be ignored... but anyone’s instinct is to fight back.

Nothing short of a warm and tender reunion with the Windsors will shut most people up. There is forgiveness needed on both sides. That’s what real families do. And with the possible exception of the Queen, a warm re-welcome will help every person involved. And the rest of us can then be quiet and leave them to it.

I appreciate what you are saying. But Harry and Meghan took the argument public so it is a bit ridiculous to complain that people are discussing it. To make matters worse, Harry and Meghan seemed to have doubled down over the past few weeks.

The urge to fight back against untrue stories is natural, but forgive my skepticism that the media was that horrible when their big complaint seemed to be the story that she made Kate cry. Although they tried to make the case that the entire British media is racist, but they had to manufacture headlines because there weren't enough real examples to make their point.

Their public hypocrisy has continued since the interview. Harry has lectured others about racism, without a hint of humility for his previous actions or the advantages he personally has reaped from colonialism. He has also deigned to publicly speak out about "inequality" from his $11 million mansion while complaining that his children are not HRHs.

 

[camelot23ca]

The idea that “everyone made mistakes, everyone needs to accept blame, apologize and forgive each other” that’s periodically voiced in this discussion doesn’t sit well with me. Has everyone in the BRF made mistakes in dealing with various family members? Of course! There’s not a person in the world who’s been unfailingly wise and gracious in dealing with his or her family, especially if we’re talking about close family like parents, children and siblings.

But saying “everyone made mistakes” ignores or minimizes the fact that Harry and Meghan were the only ones who made the particular mistake of publicly and repeatedly insulting and smearing the characters of various family members, for their own financial gain and to cause as much hurt as possible.

So no, I don’t think everyone needs to acknowledge wrong doing, say sorry and hug at this point. What needs to happen is that ideally both Harry and Meghan, but at least Harry, need to offer a sincere apology for discussing private family issues in public, without reservation and without expecting anything in return. And then he and Meghan need to show they’re trying to make amends by not discussing the family AT ALL for a significant period of time.

Only once Harry and Meghan show they can be trusted to deal with private issues in private can their family members be expected to feel comfortable having an honest and emotional discussion with them. And that’s when all of them - still including Harry and Meghan - can offer apologies for whatever mistakes were made behind the scenes over the years.

 

[_Heather_]

The idea that “everyone made mistakes, everyone needs to accept blame, apologize and forgive each other” that’s periodically voiced in this discussion doesn’t sit well with me. Has everyone in the BRF made mistakes in dealing with various family members? Of course! There’s not a person in the world who’s been unfailingly wise and gracious in dealing with his or her family, especially if we’re talking about close family like parents, children and siblings.

But saying “everyone made mistakes” ignores or minimizes the fact that Harry and Meghan were the only ones who made the particular mistake of publicly and repeatedly insulting and smearing the characters of various family members, for their own financial gain and to cause as much hurt as possible.

So no, I don’t think everyone needs to acknowledge wrong doing, say sorry and hug at this point. What needs to happen is that ideally both Harry and Meghan, but at least Harry, need to offer a sincere apology for discussing private family issues in public, without reservation and without expecting anything in return. And then he and Meghan need to show they’re trying to make amends by not discussing the family AT ALL for a significant period of time.

Only once Harry and Meghan show they can be trusted to deal with private issues in private can their family members be expected to feel comfortable having an honest and emotional discussion with them. And that’s when all of them - still including Harry and Meghan - can offer apologies for whatever mistakes were made behind the scenes over the years.

I don't disagree at all with what you're saying here. However, I have difficulty believing that much of anything that comes out of Harry or Meghan's mouths is sincere and I can absolutely see why the BRF might feel that way, too. I can remember back to the earliest days, particularly the engagement interview, when several posters here, including me, caught a lot of flack for saying that Meghan came off as insincere, overacting, fake, playing up to the cameras, etc. and it was absolutely one of the first but biggest red flags we noticed. However, when you add in how callously Harry has spoken about the trips to Nepal and other places where he, at the time, appeared to embrace the work he was doing...well, sincerity seems to be an issue with these two. Where does the act end and the sincerity begin and how do we, or the BRF, know the difference and know when they're truly sincere and when the doe-eyed waterworks are being turned on for dramatic effect? Again, I really don't disagree with your statement at all, in fact, I very much agree. But, after everything I'm just not sure how anyone listens to anything these two have to say without doubting the sincerity or the motivation behind it.

 

[Alison H]

But saying “everyone made mistakes” ignores or minimizes the fact that Harry and Meghan were the only ones who made the particular mistake of publicly and repeatedly insulting and smearing the characters of various family members, for their own financial gain and to cause as much hurt as possible.

I quite agree. All families have spats. We've all said or done the wrong thing sometimes. But publicly accusing your family of being racist, not caring that someone is suicidal and being bad parents, and making comments (Archie's title, financial support from Prince Charles) which are outright lies is rather drastic by anyone's standards.

 

[camelot23ca]

I don't disagree at all with what you're saying here. However, I have difficulty believing that much of anything that comes out of Harry or Meghan's mouths is sincere and I can absolutely see why the BRF might feel that way, too. I can remember back to the earliest days, particularly the engagement interview, when several posters here, including me, caught a lot of flack for saying that Meghan came off as insincere, overacting, fake, playing up to the cameras, etc. and it was absolutely one of the first but biggest red flags we noticed. However, when you add in how callously Harry has spoken about the trips to Nepal and other places where he, at the time, appeared to embrace the work he was doing...well, sincerity seems to be an issue with these two. Where does the act end and the sincerity begin and how do we, or the BRF, know the difference and know when they're truly sincere and when the doe-eyed waterworks are being turned on for dramatic effect? Again, I really don't disagree with your statement at all, in fact, I very much agree. But, after everything I'm just not sure how anyone listens to anything these two have to say without doubting the sincerity or the motivation behind it.

Neither of them seem like very sincere people to me, either. I’m not interested in hearing any sort of public statement from either of them admitting wrong doing or expressing guilt. It’s not the public they’ve hurt, and after all these months of seeing the Sussex publicity machine in action I’m not sure how many people would take them at their word. For celebrities in the age of social media I think that more often than not a public apology is just one more way of gaining publicity for themselves.

I’m not sure how sincere they’re capable of being in private, with the people who know them well. It wouldn’t surprise me if their family was also skeptical of any apology offered in private at this point. That’s why I think the apology needs to be offered with no expectation that everything will immediately be ok (and no “now don’t you have something you’d like to say to ME?” added on at the end) and the words need to be followed by a sustained change in behaviour.

It’s difficult for even mature and well adjusted people to get to the place where they can acknowledge that they REALLY messed up and need to be the ones to apologize, even though the person they’re apologizing to isn’t blameless, either. From everything they’ve shown us over the last couple of years I’d say the odds of Harry or Meghan being that mature or well adjusted aren’t good. But everyone can grow and change, and families can move on from some really bad and hurtful things. My hope for this family would be that Harry and Meghan don’t wind up doing something that there’s really no coming back from, no matter how many regrets they may have later on.

 

[Leopoldine]

As some of you might know, the big Sun Valley Conference in Idaho is just getting underway. Every media titan in the English-speaking world is jetting in, plus politicians, finance moguls and celebrity activist types.

I saw Gayle King on this year's list and automatically thought of Harry and Meghan and whether Allen & Co. (the hosts) invited them. When you think of the goals that H & M are setting for themselves, this particular group of leaders would be an ideal group to learn from.

Also, striking up a dialogue with someone like Lachlan Murdoch could help with their tabloid issues.

I will keep an eye out for any Sun Valley news regarding H&M!

 

[ladongas]

Harry: Hey, Lachlan! How about getting off my case? And, by the way, how do you pronounce your name?

Laghlan: Okay, Harry, nothing but happy talk from now on. And you can call me Mr. Murdoch.

 

[Lee-Z]

As some of you might know, the big Sun Valley Conference in Idaho is just getting underway. Every media titan in the English-speaking world is jetting in, plus politicians, finance moguls and celebrity activist types.

I saw Gayle King on this year's list and automatically thought of Harry and Meghan and whether Allen & Co. (the hosts) invited them. When you think of the goals that H & M are setting for themselves, this particular group of leaders would be an ideal group to learn from.

Also, striking up a dialogue with someone like Lachlan Murdoch could help with their tabloid issues.

I will keep an eye out for any Sun Valley news regarding H&M!

Interesting and indeed seems in line with their path ahead for Archewell and Archewell Audio, due to parental leave i wouldn't expect H&M to be there themselves, but maybe a video message to the participants like Harry did a few in recent times?

 

[UglyAmerican]

I guess I know all the wrong people. I thought Sun Valley was just a ski resort?

 

[_Heather_]

My hope for this family would be that Harry and Meghan don’t wind up doing something that there’s really no coming back from, no matter how many regrets they may have later on.

I think that's ultimately what most of us would hope for this family. But the truth is, I'm not at all sure that they haven't already crossed into territory that there's no coming back from. Even if there are drastic changes in the situation in the next couple of years, I have a very, very hard time believing that the family, and they are a family for all the public aspects that make them unique, could or would welcome them, or even just Harry, back with open arms, sweep it all under the rug, pretend it was just a blip on the radar or never happened at all, etc. It's going to take a tremendous amount of hard work and dedication to ever place him in a position of trust again and frankly, after what he's proven himself capable of, I'm just not sure he can ever get there. I do think that with that hard work and dedication it's possible to improve the situation and the relationships from where they are now but then again, you can't get much lower than the rock bottom they appear to be sitting on. I do, though, think that the next year or two are going to be very, very interesting to watch, notice that I said interesting not pleasant, and that the soap opera that is Harry and Meghan will not be settling down anytime soon.

 

[_Heather_]

I guess I know all the wrong people. I thought Sun Valley was just a ski resort?

I think that it is, in general. However, it is also where this big-money conference is held because, you know, you have to give the gazillionaires something to do when they're not counting their money and they're not at home to swim in their vaults like Scrooge McDuck. ?

 

[duchessrachel]

I've been wondering about the formal aspects of the Sussexes and King Charles. They have been thrashing the monarchy at every step, claiming that everything about it was old, racist, mean to Meghan personally, etc. But they cling to their titles. I'm not waiting eagerly to see the moment King Charles receives homage from the blood royal. Harry should go second and with all we've seen from him, I can't possibly imagine him doing it sincerely. As Meghan would say, it's a spectacle for the world. But if these aspects of a coronation are supposed to be treated lightly, that's basically making a mockery of the whole ceremony. Further cheapening of the monarchy.

I can't imagine what solution would be found. Because banning the first member of this family married to a biracial woman and not treat him the way another son is treated as it would be twisted isn't much of a solution either.

Would this happen during the Coronation of King Charles III? That is something I have thought about. In the coronation, do the monarch's children pay homage to him/her? That would be quite interesting (and not in a good way) if this Harry/Meghan saga is not resolved before then.

 

[_Heather_]

Would this happen during the Coronation of King Charles III? That is something I have thought about. In the coronation, do the monarch's children pay homage to him/her? That would be quite interesting (and not in a good way) if this Harry/Meghan saga is not resolved before then.

Yes, I'm 99.9% sure it would happen during the coronation. In fact, I believe there's a specific order in which it will happen but I'm not quite sure of the order itself. I believe as children of the new monarch it will be William, Harry, Andrew, Edward, etc. though I'm not positive about the order other than I am pretty positive that William goes first.

I do agree, the coronation could be rather interesting and not in a good way if these shenanigans continue...

 

[duchessrachel]

Scobie does them no favours with comments like this: ‘Meghan came in driven and ready to work and that immediately ruffled feathers. She’s a woman well into her 30s: I think she’s proven to herself and the people she’s worked with up until that point that she knows what she’s doing.‘ She was certainly not someone who was going to change herself just to please the people around her." They blatantly contradict Meghan's accounts of her being so sweet and helpless, with no one giving her princessy lessons and no one willing to help her. She claimed she knew nothing about the RF, yet her mouthpiece claims that she knows what she's doing. I don't know anything about your business and I need all the help I can get but let me show how it should be done isn't a good look on anybody. And Meghan's unwillingness to make changes, aka admit any rules that she didn't like isn't indicative of a team player.

I'm not surprised by the confirmation that this was indeed the case since I've long thought so. But I'm stunned it came from a staunch friend of theirs.

Exactly correct! And what I put in bold was the problem. When you marry into the Royal Family, you acclimate to them---not them to you. The fact that Harry did not educate her on that is beyond me. , but he seems to not understand it himself.

 

[Osipi]

Would this happen during the Coronation of King Charles III? That is something I have thought about. In the coronation, do the monarch's children pay homage to him/her? That would be quite interesting (and not in a good way) if this Harry/Meghan saga is not resolved before then.

If I have things right, at the coronation, the act of homage happens after the monarch is crowned. The way it was for Queen Elizabeth's II coronation was that the first to pay homage to the Queen are the Archbishop and the other bishops who kneel before the Queen and pledge their support. Then the Duke of Edinburgh pays his homage, pledges his support and kisses the Queen’s left cheek. Next follow the other royal members and peers who have gathered to witness the coronation ceremony.

If Charles follows tradition, his sons (who are also peers of the realm) would definitely be included.