The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June 2021-

William does not come off all that great. And these are allegations only re: Meghan. Meghan was not treated well by the media from the get go (and on social media). I don't think William and Harry always saw eye to eye. The image of the "closeness" I think was overstated. They had their falling outs over the years, and in Lacey's earlier edition of the book, he noted that the two brothers would not speak to each other for periods of time over the years. What cameras? Who would be there to photograph the inner workings of the RF and unless the conversation was overheard, how is it known what was said. I don't think that would constitute sufficient evidence. A lot of this is hearsay IMO.

I don’t see how William comes off poorly.

The allegations about Meghan are how she treated staff. Not sure what that has to do with the media. (Unless I’m misunderstanding you.) There were concerns such that JK- an American no less and staffer who had been somewhat close to Meghan- felt compelled to write an email on the subject detailing his concerns. Which were extensive. That is a pretty big thing IMO.

There’s a big difference between William and Harry not chit chatting all the time or being BFFs- and the clearly poor state their relationship is now. IMO.

I was referring to the cameras at a public event (the one Meghan notably walked out on) during one of Meghan and Harry’s tours. They caught Meghan talking to an aide in such a manner- the aide’s face blanched. I was relating that back to the bullying allegations.

 

[Sandy345]

I think some mediation between Harry and William should have been ongoing. I think this is the root of the problem, and it is between the brothers.

If the person was "close to Meghan" why would he ascribe motives to her that way? It seems to me projecting motives on Meghan.

Many employees are corrected by bosses and they may "blanch." that is not proof that she bullied him. There needs to be a whole lot more proof by unbiased sources if they want to get anywhere with these charges IMO anyway.

 

[Erin9]

[...]I think some mediation between Harry and William should have been ongoing. I think this is the root of the problem, and it is between the brothers.

If the person was "close to Meghan" why would he ascribe motives to her that way?

Many employees are corrected by bosses and they may "blanch." that is not proof that she bullied him. There needs to be a whole lot more proof by unbiased sources if they want to get anywhere with these charges IMO anyway.

Well according to Lacey- take it as you will- the current root seems to be the bullying issue. William’s reservations were supposedly handled relatively respectfully on both sides and they’d moved on.

I don’t believe the person was “close” to her- as in a friend- I can’t remember the exact description. Just someone who had some knowledge about her.

IMO- speaking to an employee in a manner that causes them to blanch likely means something was said that should not have been. There’s no need for that. We don’t know what was said or why. IDK whether that would constitute bullying. But in light of the allegations it is, to me, at least notable.

I don’t think anything will ever be “proven” unless someone recorded a conversation. What we do know- for a fact- is that concerns about her behavior were related in an email by a member of her staff. In short- someone had concerns based on complaints from employees. That’s not alleged. Whether it rose to the level of bullying, who knows. That email was written years ago.

 

[Denville]

Well according to Lacey- take it as you will- the current root seems to be the bullying issue. William’s reservations were supposedly handled relatively respectfully on both sides and they’d moved on.

I don’t believe the person was “close” to her- as in a friend- I can’t remember the exact description. Just someone who had some knowledge about her.

IMO- speaking to an employee in a manner that causes them to blanch likely means something was said that should not have been. There’s no need for that. We don’t know what was said or why. IDK whether that would constitute bullying. But in light of the allegations it is, to me, at least notable.

I don’t think anything will ever be “proven” unless someone recorded a conversation. What we do know- for a fact- is that concerns about her behavior were related in an email by a member of her staff. In short- someone had concerns based on complaints from employees. That’s not alleged. Whether it rose to the level of bullying, who knows. That email was written years ago.

I do think that there is a lot of smoke, and from what I can decipher there were stories of Meghan's showing a lot of temper (backed by Harry) going back much of their royal life.
If Harry was really shouting "Whatever Meg wants she gets" that's pretty angry adn odd. I can't imagien that people were trying to give Meghan a hard time, so why this attitude?

Bascially I think that there's rather too much smoke for there to be no fire at all. Bullying is always hard to prove as generally speaking people dont carry round tape recorders and bullies are smart enough usually not to say anything that they can be called on for.... Even if there are witnesses at times the bully rules by fear and kknows that other staff will not say anything either because they're afraid.

 

[TLLK]

I don’t see how William comes off poorly.

The allegations about Meghan are how she treated staff. Not sure what that has to do with the media. (Unless I’m misunderstanding you.) There were concerns such that JK- an American no less and staffer who had been somewhat close to Meghan- felt compelled to write an email on the subject detailing his concerns. Which were extensive. That is a pretty big thing IMO.

There’s a big difference between William and Harry not chit chatting all the time or being BFFs- and the clearly poor state their relationship is now. IMO.

I was referring to the cameras at a public event (the one Meghan notably walked out on) during one of Meghan and Harry’s tours. They caught Meghan talking to an aide in such a manner- the aide’s face blanched. I was relating that back to the bullying allegations.

I have to agree that I don't see how Prince William comes of "poorly" as to how he chose to end the joint household over the bullying concerns and his brother's reported response when William brought it to his attention. IMHO it was the appropriate step to take as the staff needed to be protected and should not expected to work in a hostile environment.


Regarding Jason Knauf, IMHO the decision to write the email regarding the bullying concerns must have been very difficult. He'd been a strong supporter of Meghan but had apparently witnessed the bullying behaviors and heard from other staffers about their negative interactions with her. Ultimately he realized that the concerns had to be addressed.

 

[Sandy345]

I do think that there is a lot of smoke, and from what I can decipher there were stories of Meghan's showing a lot of temper (backed by Harry) going back much of their royal life.
If Harry was really shouting "Whatever Meg wants she gets" that's pretty angry adn odd. I can't imagien that people were trying to give Meghan a hard time, so why this attitude?

Bascially I think that there's rather too much smoke for there to be no fire at all. Bullying is always hard to prove as generally speaking people dont carry round tape recorders and bullies are smart enough usually not to say anything that they can be called on for.... Even if there are witnesses at times the bully rules by fear and kknows that other staff will not say anything either because they're afraid.

Robert Jobson claimed Harry said this "whatever Meg wants she gets." It seems to me that it is hearsay.

The episode re: Harry getting upset was supposedly because the Queen's assistant to let Meghan try on tiaras was not responding to calls to make the appointment.

Another issue was that it was perhaps not the best idea to have the two couples working together. I don't think it was a good idea considering the friction between the brothers. However, they could of course have had made joint appearances from time to time.

 

[Erin9]

I have to agree that I don't see how Prince William comes of "poorly" as to how he chose to end the joint household over the bullying concerns and his brother's reported response when William brought it to his attention. IMHO it was the appropriate step to take as the staff needed to be protected and should not expected to work in a hostile environment.


Regarding Jason Knauf, IMHO the decision to write the email regarding the bullying concerns must have been very difficult. He'd been a strong supporter of Meghan but had apparently witnessed the bullying behaviors and heard from other staffers about their negative interactions with her. Ultimately he realized that the concerns had to be addressed.

I think the current investigation into how the BRF should handle these types of issues going forward will likely be very helpful too. But I think- assuming this is accurate- William did what he thought (understandably IMO) necessary, and I think it’s likely the best he could do.

A reason why I take Jason Knauf’s email seriously is for those reasons. IMO- it almost had to be a difficult decision to make. That’s not an email anyone wants to write. Certainly not regarding someone he’d worked closely with and had apparently gotten along with. It likely took quite some time to compose. That’s not something you just fire off. And he referenced numerous complaints- ie it wasn’t him writing the email formalizing his concerns after a one- off. It was over time and repeated apparent issues. He seemed to feel he had a duty to formalize his concerns.

 

[Denville]

I think the current investigation into how the BRF should handle these types of issues going forward will likely be very helpful too. But I think- assuming this is accurate- William did what he thought (understandably IMO) necessary, and I think it’s likely the best he could do.

A reason why I take Jason Knauf’s email seriously is for those reasons. IMO- it almost had to be a difficult decision to make. That’s not an email anyone wants to write. Certainly not regarding someone he’d worked closely with and had apparently gotten along with. It likely took quite some time to compose. That’s not something you just fire off. And he referenced numerous complaints- ie it wasn’t him writing the email formalizing his concerns after a one- off. It was over time and repeated apparent issues. He seemed to feel he had a duty to formalize his concerns.

Also as an American, he could problaby work out better if it was perhaps Meghan's not understanding palace and British culture... and he clearly seemed to think that it was more than that...

 

[Sandy345]

Is Jason Knauf impartial though? How would he witness these behaviors he was not a supervisor and observed and evaluated her on a daily basis? Bullying is a serious charge and what "punishments" would she receive for it? The question would go to a supervisor (on the job every day to evaluate)of Meghan who evaluated her, not to Knauf. If someone does not care for Meghan to begin with, there would be an issue of bias. I think Knauf is more sympathetic to William who Lacey claims "threw Harry and Meghan Out." So many questions to this it is not clear cut. Are there routine evaluations of royals who supervise?

 

[Denville]

Robert Jobson claimed Harry said this "whatever Meg wants she gets." It seems to me that it is hearsay.

The episode re: Harry getting upset was supposedly because the Queen's assistant to let Meghan try on tiaras was not responding to calls to make the appointment.

Another issue was that it was perhaps not the best idea to have the two couples working together. I don't think it was a good idea considering the friction between the brothers. However, they could of course have had made joint appearances from time to time.

Well William DID break up the joint household, not because he didn't get on iwth his brother but because he was concerned about staff.
As for "hearsay" unless the RF are followed literally by reporters all the time or unless people on the Forum follwo them around all the time, most of what's reported is "Hearsay".

 

[Erin9]

Also as an American, he could problaby work out better if it was perhaps Meghan's not understanding palace and British culture... and he clearly seemed to think that it was more than that...

Yes- that was notable to me too. An American was concerned about the behavior of an American.

 

[TLLK]

Is Jason Knauf impartial though? How would he witness these behaviors he was not a supervisor. The question would go to a supervisor of Meghan who evaluated her, not to Knauf. If someone does not care for Meghan to begin with, there would be an issue of bias.

From what I have read Jason Knauf was a very strong supporter of Meghan, so the idea that "someone didn't care for Meghan to begin with" is not true in this case. After all we know that he helped Prince Harry to compose his memo to the press regarding the media coverage of Meghan when they were dating. Also she in turn trusted and respected his Knauf' skills to have requested his assistance when writing her letter to her father. The two appeared to have a good working relationship. However things did change when he began to hear concerns from staffers about how Meghan was interacting with them and when he personally witnessed these behaviors.

Knauf was the communications director for Prince Harry when his relationship with Meghan Markle began. He issued an unprecedented statement from Prince Harry, describing a “smear campaign” against Markle in the media.

Knauf was actually one of Meghan's most senior advisers—her chief adviser, in fact, when it came to public relations."Earlier that year she had gone to Knauf for help when drafting the disputed letter of severance that she sent to her father. She valued his PR expertise."

 

[Moran]

The fact that "someone didn't care for Meghan" is neither here nor there. I don't care for many of the people I work with. In fact, I can't wait for the meetings to be over. I still wouldn't take any wild accusations thrown at them, let alone involve myself with words and claims like the one Jason Knauf used without being sure that was what happened.

That's without mentioning that he is claimed to have cared for Meghan very much indeed.

 

[Sandy345]

I am questioning his impartiality in the case. He needed to do more mediation if he "witnessed" anything amiss. And speak directly to parties involved. I did not say Knauf did not care for Meghan to begin with I just wondered how impartial he is being of late.

 

[Denville]

I am questioning his impartiality in the case. He needed to do more mediation if he "witnessed" anything amiss. And speak directly to parties involved. I did not say Knauf did not care for Meghan to begin with I just wondered how impartial he is being of late.

What mediation? he's not Meghan's boss. He was someone who was senior and worked with her closely and clearly felt that she was doing what bullies do and "always having someone in her sights", and in some cases pressuring them till they left.

 

[Alison H]

If someone had sat Meghan down and explained that the way she was treating people was causing problems, maybe things could have been dealt with. But, from the sounds of it, when William raised the issue, Harry went ballistic about a) the fact that anyone should have dared to suggest that Meghan was less than perfect and b) the fact that William had listened to them. I'm not sure where anyone was meant to go from there.

 

[Denville]

If someone had sat Meghan down and explained that the way she was treating people was causing problems, maybe things could have been dealt with. But, from the sounds of it, when William raised the issue, Harry went ballistic about a) the fact that anyone should have dared to suggest that Meghan was less than perfect and b) the fact that William had listened to them. I'm not sure where anyone was meant to go from there.

I dont think it would have done much good. IF it is true. Bullies are hard to stop. And in the case of Meg and Harry it seems like ANY criticism of them sends them into a tailspin. Well none of us likes criticism but most of us wont get away with utterly refusing to accept it.

 

[Curryong]

This is the scenario that was provided to Robert Lacey by aides and others at KP and gleefully repeated by the media. William hasn’t spoken about any explosive rows about Meghan and her supposed behaviour. Neither has Harry. There are two sides to every story and often the truth is somewhere in between.

 

[Sandy345]

It is only an allegation that she "bullied." and no assumptions can be made that she is guilty--she is innocent until proven guilty, some comments like Jobson's were hearsay. How is it known how "ballistic" Harry was he might have just defended Meghan against the charges which would be understandable. Given the friction between Will and Harry, perhaps another could have talked to Harry. The media HAS used the term incandescent re: william so putting them together IMO probably made things worse. Some other married ins worked with a Lady In Waiting to advise them. I think that might have alleviated some of the issues. Diana would socialize with the kitchen staff, for example, and was corrected by the one supervising the kitchen that she needed to go to "her side" of the house. There are things that are needed to be learned.

 

[Moran]

If someone had sat Meghan down and explained that the way she was treating people was causing problems, maybe things could have been dealt with. But, from the sounds of it, when William raised the issue, Harry went ballistic about a) the fact that anyone should have dared to suggest that Meghan was less than perfect and b) the fact that William had listened to them. I'm not sure where anyone was meant to go from there.

Wasn't it Katie Nicholl who said that The Queen, no less, told Meghan that this wasn't how they spoke to people? If true, I doubt that any "someone" would be successful where HM failed.

Of course, in this report Katie Nicholl said TQ was very polite. Perhaps Meghan didn't take her all that seriously.

 

[TLLK]

I am questioning his impartiality in the case. He needed to do more mediation if he "witnessed" anything amiss. And speak directly to parties involved. I did not say Knauf did not care for Meghan to begin with I just wondered how impartial he is being of late.

I'm not sure what "mediation" he could do as a witness to the reported bullying behaviors considering that the Sussexes were his "bosses." As far as I can tell, he followed protocol by taking this to Human Resources. There are reports that Prince Harry begged him not to contact HR though. As I stated earlier, since Jason Knauf was an early supporter of Prince Harry dating Meghan Markle and the pair had a good working relationship I believe his decision to write the email outlining the reported bullying behaviors was a very difficult one. However it was truly the one that he needed to make.

If someone does not care for Meghan to begin with, there would be an issue of bias.

Apologies but since you were referring to Knauf in your earlier post, I assumed that you meant him in this sentence.

 

[Sandy345]

She was new, she should have been supervised and worked with, perhaps a courtier or lady in waiting. And it should not have gotten to a point where something was "witnessed." Harry's "begging" was reported by the media whether it actually amounted to "begging" was subject to speculation. No, I used the word "someone" for that reason, and it was not directed at Knauf specifically. If anything, this case should give royals future guidance for new married ins working with staff.

As for Katie Nicholl being a source, she has been very negative about Meghan before this happened. I would not say she is objective. IF the Queen spoke to Meghan she would not have just walked by and said this is not the way...she would or should have met with Meghan on a one on one basis.

 

[Denville]

She was new, she should have been supervised and worked with, perhaps a courtier or lady in waiting. And it should not have gotten to a point where something was "witnessed." Harry's "begging" was reported by the media whether it actually amounted to "begging" was subject to speculation. No, I used the word "someone" for that reason, and it was not directed at Knauf specifically.

As for Katie Nicholl being a source, she has been very negative about Meghan before this happened. I would not say she is objective.

What does that mean it shouldn't have gotten to a point where something was "witnessed?" If Meghan was abusing staff, she shouldn't have been doing it...

 

[Sandy345]

Innocent until proven guilty. She was never reported to be "abusing" staff before she married in. Certainly those "vetting her" before she and Harry got engaged would have discovered that with concrete proof.

 

[Denville]

Innocent until proven guilty. She was never reported to be "abusing" staff before she married in. Certainly those "vetting her" before she and Harry got engaged would have discovered that with concrete proof.

She never had any staff before she married into the RF.

 

[Moran]

In the video where she goes before HM, about a month after the wedding, she's surrounded by people who I can only presume were there to guide her. I can't imagine they told her to walk before HM.

As to getting to the point where something was witnessed - well, if it is true, there is never, ever any excuse that would make the blame shared. Even if the staff was lousy at their job, it's still no excuse to mistreat them. And the staff was said to be good with their job prior to getting Meghan as their principal.

Notice that I said "if it is true". We all know that at this stage, nothing is certain. Funny how I never saw anything certain about William being obnoxious with his advice to his brother or even giving such advice, ever, but it's treated as gospel's truth and used to distract from anything that might, just might be Harry and Meghan's fault.

 

[Curryong]

She never had any staff before she married into the RF.

Well, Meghan had had staff since and there have been no reports of anyone being bullied while she’s been living in Canada and the US.

 

[ACO]

The most interesting piece of this is the UN Women. It's being repeated as fact. Anyone actually asked the organization why they have continued working with a woman who apparently treats them so horribly? This being before and after Harry. Would be interesting to see if they even bothered.

As with most people high profile accused people tend to come out the woodwork. Just look at present news. Interesting the opposite is happening. But time will tell. Agendas are all around and the truth always comes out.

 

[Sandy345]

She never had any staff before she married into the RF.

She had colleagues on the set, and there would be a director and producer of the show, and technicians on the show. And if there are "temperamental" actors and actresses, this somehow gets out.

 

[TLLK]

Innocent until proven guilty. She was never reported to be "abusing" staff before she married in. Certainly those "vetting her" before she and Harry got engaged would have discovered that with concrete proof.

Actually I believe that there was a report that senior coutiers did speak with the couple about Meghan's interactions with her staff shortly after the engagement so issues were apparently happening before the couple married. Also the incident related to the shooting party blanket episode with Melissa Toubati reportedly occurred after the engagement. Also a number of Sussex staff were leaving in 2018, so for whatever reason they didn't choose to remain with the couple that they were initially eager to work with.


https://www.foxnews.com/entertainme...nor-infractions-hyper-specific-demands-report

Soon after the engagement, Meghan hosted a shooting party at Sandringham for Harry’s friends. She ordered personally embroidered blankets for each of the guests, in red. When they arrived, they weren’t the right shade of red for Meghan and she went mental at Melissa," the source claims.