The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 5: June-July 2021

[Denville]

I agree. Harry did admit he suppressed his feelings. And at the time he left the military it seemed to be a turning point a time of reflection. Harry is not a weak person with a "Svengali" he knows his own mind. I think if he were "indecisive" and been a conformist. IMO he would have gone in the same direction no matter who he married. If he married Chelsy Davy, he could very well have spent most of his time in South Africa with her and her family. I think he and William have had their differences for a long time, they are not children anymore and have their own ideas and thoughts.

So how come if he knows his own mind, he chose to go into royal life when he left the Army, and then married and took on his full time role as a royal? If he wasn't happy iwth it and wanted to get out? or was he just waiting for some wife to come along and offer him a way out, like if he married Chelsey he would have gone to live with her in Africa and get a job in her family business or having married Meghan he goes with her to Hollywood.

 

[Sandy345]

I honestly cannot answer a question about how Harry feels. I don't know his innermost thoughts. He seems very complex to me. I think that he wanted marriage and a family. But unless he was willing, a wife could not "force" him to do what he did not want to do. He and William reportedly were close but it turns out, Harry went in his own direction and did not "need" William to tell him what to do.

 

[Denville]

I honestly cannot answer a question about how Harry feels. I don't know his innermost thoughts. He seems very complex to me. I think that he wanted marriage and a family. But unless he was willing, a wife could not "force" him to do what he did not want to do. He and William reportedly were close but it turns out, Harry went in his own direction and did not "need" William to tell him what to do.

But if he knows his own mind, and was angry and unhappy with the royal role for a long time, it seems odd that he should decide to continue with it and only leave it when he has a wife who can take him to a foreign country and help him to start a new life.

 

[Kaye1850]

It is generally acknowledged that Chelsy Davy was a true love of Harry’s.
They reportedly split because she did not want the royal life.

So my puzzlement is why Harry didn’t leave the RF for her, and live happily in her native South Africa?

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

It is generally acknowledged that Chelsy Davy was a true love of Harry’s.
They reportedly split because she did not want the royal life.

So my puzzlement is why Harry didn’t leave the RF for her, and live happily in her native South Africa?

"Generally acknowledged" by who?

 

[Denville]

I thought that Harry was in a relationship with Chelsey for several years, albeit at long distance.. and it didn't work out because she didn't want to be a Princess.
Im sure he would not have kept up a relationship with her for ages if he did not love her....

 

[UglyAmerican]

It's ironic that Tom Markle accuses Harry of being "weak minded." I see TM as the weak minded one so quickly running to the media for attention and he did admit he got money for it. A strong man would not have been lured so easily.

The two things can both be true. Harry's spouted enough revisionist history lately, contradicting things he himself previously said before meeting Meghan, that I think there's room to question just how strong his mind actually is. And while leaving royal life may have been something Harry wanted all along, there is no way on God's green earth that the man who claims to have PTSD symptoms when he hears a camera shutter would have picked Southern California, of all places, of his own volition. The US has some of the most liberal speech/press laws in the world, much looser than Canada or anywhere in Europe, thanks to our "bonkers" First Amendment. Not a good choice for someone who lives in fear of photographers. He'd probably have been happier just about anywhere else in the world.

 

[Denville]

The two things can both be true. Harry's spouted enough revisionist history lately, contradicting things he himself previously said before meeting Meghan, that I think there's room to question just how strong his mind actually is. And while leaving royal life may have been something Harry wanted all along, there is no way on God's green earth that the man who claims to have PTSD symptoms when he hears a camera shutter would have picked Southern California, of all places, of his own volition. The US has some of the most liberal speech/press laws in the world, much looser than Canada or anywhere in Europe, thanks to our "bonkers" First Amendment. Not a good choice for someone who lives in fear of photographers. He'd probably have been happier just about anywhere else in the world.

well Harry is the one who claims he has PTSD and mental health problems. However Thomas Markle as far as I can see did not "go to" the press.. They chased him and he foolsihly gave way and let them take pics etc. But then he' seems a lonely isolated man, who lives as a recluse almost and has money problems. I would not entirely blame him for being tempted by an offer of money, knowiing that the press were not that likely to go away till they had gotten something from him. However harry is VERY rich and according ot himself, as you say, stressed by cameras and pressmen.. and yet he appears on TV nad the internet several times, lashing out at his family, talking about private things... and he can hardly claim that he has no security or protection to keep the press at a distance, and he certainly can't claim that he's short of money...

 

[Kaye1850]

"Generally acknowledged" by who?

Their relationship was widely reported in UK media and seemed to finally fail about the time they attended the Cambridge wedding.

 

[Denville]

Their relationship was widely reported in UK media and seemed to finally fail about the time they attended the Cambridge wedding.

It would be strange if Harry had not had any previous relationships before he met Meghan in his 30s. And I think he was said to be very much in love with her....

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Their relationship was widely reported in UK media and seemed to finally fail about the time they attended the Cambridge wedding.

Are you arguing that the UK media "generally acknowledged" that Chelsy was his "true love"? I don't think that's for the UK media to decide.

Everything isn't about Meghan but insisting on talking about a woman he didn't end up marrying as his "true love" sure does sound like something someone with an animosity towards Meghan would do ?

 

[Kaye1850]

If you read carefully, I never said “true love,” singular. I said “a true love” of which a man is allowed to have more than one.

He loved Chelsy, he loves Meghan. I think it’s interesting that he made different choices.
Perhaps it was just a factor of his age at the time.

 

[Osipi]

Are you arguing that the UK media "generally acknowledged" that Chelsy was his "true love"? I don't think that's for the UK media to decide.

Everything isn't about Meghan but insisting on talking about a woman he didn't end up marrying as his "true love" sure does sound like something someone with an animosity towards Meghan would do ?

The way I see it is that if Harry was the one that brought all of his past life of unhappiness into the public domain, everything about his past life can and will be drawn into being looked at and analyzed and mulled over and a whole lot of "what ifs" come out in the discussion. It's a discussion and not a deliberate attempt to cast shadows on anyone in Harry's life now or then even.

When we think about it, actually Meghan's time span in Harry's life is actually a short blip in Harry's almost 37 years of life.

 

[duchessrachel]

Obviously no one knows how Harry truly thinks, but he appears to me to be very easily led. This has made me wonder if we might be seeing a different Harry today if he had married a woman who respected the monarchy, did her job for the monarchy and ignored the press, and encouraged him in his work -- a woman much like Kate and Camilla. But we will never know.

 

[Alison H]

Chelsy Davy was with Harry for a long time. She stayed over at Windsor, and she attended William and Kate's wedding as Harry's partner. It was clearly a very serious relationship at the time. That's got nothing to do with Meghan: she and Harry hadn't even met then.


I think it's generally accepted that Harry's previous two long-term relationships, with Chelsy and then with Cressida Bonas, ended because both women decided that royal life was not for them. They did respect the monarchy: they just felt that that life wasn't right for them. The question was why there never seems to have been any question of Harry walking away from the Royal Family to start a new life with either of them, when he chose to do so with Meghan. It's not a criticism of any of the people involved, but I think it's a legitimate question.

 

[Sionevar]

I think it's generally accepted that Harry's previous two long-term relationships, with Chelsy Davy and Cressida Bonas, ended because both women decided that royal life was not for them. The question was why there never seems to have been any question of Harry walking away from the Royal Family to start a new life with either of them, when he chose to do so with Meghan. It's not a criticism of any of the people involved, but I think it's a legitimate question.

Perhaps it's just that he was willing to put up with things when he was younger that he is not willing to put up with now? That's something that happens to everyone at some point, I think. I put up with relationship issues and working conditions in my 20s that I won't tolerate for a moment now, because (for better or worse) I've matured enough to realize it's not acceptable, or it's not what I want out of life.

 

[Denville]

actually As I recall her name was brought up by someone saying that if he'd married her, he might have gone to Live in Africa...
I dont know if he would or not.. but if he was indeed unhappy iwth hte monarchy as he has now claimed, perhaps if he had married another woman like Chelsey, he might have chosen to leave and live wth her abroad...

 

[Sandy345]

It is generally acknowledged that Chelsy Davy was a true love of Harry’s.
They reportedly split because she did not want the royal life.

So my puzzlement is why Harry didn’t leave the RF for her, and live happily in her native South Africa?

She probably wanted a more private life for one thing. And as I recall she was criticized by some (I can't understand why) on blogs and social media. I always had liked her. Harry was very friendly with her parents and her brother.

I don't think he was serious about Cressida. But he was about Chelsy

 

[Denville]

She probably wanted a more private life for one thing. And as I recall she was criticized by some (I can't understand why) on blogs and social media. I always had liked her. Harry was very friendly with her parents and her brother.

I don't think he was serious about Cressida. But he was about Chelsy

so wouldn't that be ideal for him? He could work in S Africa, they would be out of the RF and have a private life.

 

[Sandy345]

It's a moot point now.

 

[Heavs]

Perhaps it's just that he was willing to put up with things when he was younger that he is not willing to put up with now? That's something that happens to everyone at some point, I think. I put up with relationship issues and working conditions in my 20s that I won't tolerate for a moment now, because (for better or worse) I've matured enough to realize it's not acceptable, or it's not what I want out of life.

That's true, he may not have known what he wanted or how to get it in his 20s. Although it has been pointed out my many people that he looked and seemed happier then than he does now he's "found what he really wants".

It was his choice to be in the Army and his choice to leave (his family were quite surprised when he suddenly decided to quit and take up royal duties before William did). He wasn't in the top 5 or even the top 10 of working royals for the first few years and had a lot of down time and the press didn't print a lot of his escapades at this point.

We really don't know if anyone said to him "if you want, you can go and live in SA, we'll manage" at the time but we know he did talk publicly about potentially disappearing off and just doing full time conservation work but not if he was serious.

I think there may have been other problems in his relationship with Chelsy than just her not wanting to be a working royal.

In interviews he came across as not loving parts of it but being glad for the chance to help people - well he's blown that up now. And lets not forget he and Meghan originally wanted HIHO so it can't have been *all* terrible that it apparently is now... Not to mention their big ideas seem to feature a lot of Independent Royals of Montecito vibe. So whilst he may not have been happy I don't think it was the work exclusively that made him unhappy. Obviously the drink and the drugs don't help anyone's state of mind.

 

[Denville]

It's a moot point now.

not really. Its being debated whether Harry is indeed sure of himself and what he wants to do, or if he's led by Meghan.. or if he really wanted to get out of royal life sooner. If he did, I'm surprised that he stayed so long when he was in love with Chelsey, she had a home in Africa where he was happy. so if he was sure in himself that he didn't like royal life, perhaps that would have been the ideal time to go.

We really don't know if anyone said to him "if you want, you can go and live in SA, we'll manage" at the time but we know he did talk publicly about potentially disappearing off and just doing full time conservation work but not if he was serious.

I think there may have been other problems in his relationship with Chelsy than just her not wanting to be a working royal.

In interviews he came across as not loving parts of it but being glad for the chance to help people - well he's blown that up now. And lets not forget he and Meghan originally wanted HIHO so it can't have been *all* terrible that it apparently is now... Not to mention their big ideas seem to feature a lot of Independent Royals of Montecito vibe. So whilst he may not have been happy I don't think it was the work exclusively that made him unhappy. Obviously the drink and the drugs don't help anyone's state of mind.

I think he was probably pretty erratic back then some few years ago.. possibly complaining all the time about royal life in private.. while putting on a show in public. So the RF didn't quite know what to do with him....
I'd say they hoped he'd settle down, and possibly figured that as he clearly hated having a desk job in the army, he might be better to take up royal duties but have some down time.. I think that his big explosion in the last few years didnt just come out of the blue.. that the RF were aware that he wasn't really very settled or stable and were probably concerned as to what might happen.. and handled him with kid gloves..
#And it sounds like he was flitting around a lot while on down time.. and probably taking drugs and drinking.. and the RF probably hoped that given a few years of semi freedom he would settle down, go into full time royal work and find a wife... but it did not work out like that.
As for HIHO, I dont know if he really hated the royal work all the time... but I figure he and Meghan knew that they would do better if they were seen as working royals some of the time, and then could go off and do their money making job the rest of the time. Presumably he didn't hate it completely or even if he did, he was able to put on an act...
But I suspect that far from settling him down and getting him into his full time royal job, Meghan stirred up the part of him that didn't like the job at all, didn't like the having to be nice, the routine, the "emphasis on duty" and so on. I think she really convinced him that the RF were exploiting him.. that he was a wonderful popular prince and should be the star of the show... and if he couldn't..becauase of that boring old primogeniture, then they should get out.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

not really. Its being debated whether Harry is indeed sure of himself and what he wants to do, or if he's led by Meghan.. or if he really wanted to get out of royal life sooner. If he did, I'm surprised that he stayed so long when he was in love with Chelsey, she had a home in Africa where he was happy. so if he was sure in himself that he didn't like royal life, perhaps that would have been the ideal time to go.

He was in his early twenties when he was dating Chelsy... It's not exactly surprising that you become more sure of yourself and your priorities as you grow older.

 

[Denville]

But he was with Chelsey for a long time, wasn't he? They only broke up about 10 years ago -I believe it was around the time of Kate and Wil's wedding. So by then, surely he had reached an age where he had tried out his relationship with Chelsea, for some time.. and if he wasn't that happy with Royal life, he was around 27.. and he could surely have decided around then if he wanted to go on with it.

 

[Erin9]

It's a great shame for everyone that neither Meghan nor Thomas have an ounce of Doria's dignity and rectitude.

It is indeed. Very unfortunate that Meghan didn’t pick up at all such a lovely quality in her mother- especially after being on the receiving end of her father’s inability to stay quiet. (“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” comes to mind. She went and parroted behavior we know she didn’t much care for. Go figure.)

You’d think being so close to her mom might have helped develop the quality, but obviously not.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

But he was with Chelsey for a long time, wasn't he? They only broke up about 10 years ago -I believe it was around the time of Kate and Wil's wedding. So by then, surely he had reached an age where he had tried out his relationship with Chelsea, for some time.. and if he wasn't that happy with Royal life, he was around 27.. and he could surely have decided around then if he wanted to go on with it.

Doesn't really matter how long he was with Chelsy for, he was still in his early to mid-twenties when they were dating. It's not uncommon not to be sure of what you want at that point in your life. I'm pretty sure there were also factors that came along with his relationship with Meghan, such as seeing the deplorable racist abuse she and their son got, that influenced his decision.

 

[Blog Real]

But he was with Chelsey for a long time, wasn't he? They only broke up about 10 years ago -I believe it was around the time of Kate and Wil's wedding. So by then, surely he had reached an age where he had tried out his relationship with Chelsea, for some time.. and if he wasn't that happy with Royal life, he was around 27.. and he could surely have decided around then if he wanted to go on with it.

Probably at that time Harry still didn't know what kind of life he wanted to have, or else he didn't know what to do.
After all, after the end of his relationship with Chelsy, Harry had a relationship with Cressida Bonas.
But I believe that if Harry had married Chelsy or Cressida he could still currently be a senior member of the BRF.
The truth is that Harry and Meghan were still senior members of the BRF for over a year, so quitting being senior members of the BRF would not have been in their plans when they got married.

 

[Denville]

According to harry, he beleived she was getting racist media coverage while they were dating.. and if the RF were really so racist, I cna't believe that he wasn't aware of that, when he was courting her. So given that he had had years of not being happy with royal duties, hating his work with the poor and disadvantaged, I am surprised that he married Meghan with the understanding that he was becoming a full time royal with her by his side.


Think of it. He said the Press were racist towards her... his family well why would there only be 1 remark about her racial origins, and that later in the day? If they were going to show racist tendencies I'd have expected them to come out with them before they got married. And he had had YEARS of not being happy with royal work, taking drink and drugs, struggling..

so with all that, he went ahead and married a girl knowing that she was going to face a racist press, that his own family weren't that tolerant.. and that they would have to take on royal duties that he hated. Why do that?
he was in his mid 30s by then, so surely he was mature enough to have worked out what he wanted to do, and how to do it?

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

According to harry, he beleived she was getting racist media coverage while they were dating.. and if the RF were really so racist, I cna't believe that he wasn't aware of that, when he was courting her. So given that he had had years of not being happy with royal duties, hating his work with the poor and disadvantaged (...)

If there's one thing you can't accuse Harry of, it's being disinterested in the work that he actually did do while he was an active member of the royal family. Surely it's unnecessary to resort to low and more importantly, incorrect, blows?

 

[AC21091968]

It's a great shame for everyone that neither Meghan nor Thomas have an ounce of Doria's dignity and rectitude.

I agree, it's also very sad that only Doria attended Harry & Meghan's wedding, Her maternal side of the family did not attend the wedding, despite behaving impeccably. It's a shame that the only family member Meghan have a close relationship with is her mother.