Sheikha Latifa Al Maktoum (''The Missing Princess'') 1: Ending 2022

[LadyFinn]

Ex-Irish president's foundation says Princess Haya paid for Robinson's controversial trip to Dubai, for which she has been called a 'willing pawn'
A spokeswoman for Robinson's Foundation for Climate Justice confirmed on Saturday that it had played no role in the former president's trip to Dubai, the Times newspaper reported on Sunday.
"My understanding is that Mary wasat a conference in Paris and was requested to go to Dubai by Princess Haya and she [Haya] paid the fare," said Bride Rosney.
Haya, one of Sheikh al-Maktoum's six wives, previously worked in Ireland and is an old friend of Robinson's.
Sheikha Latifa relative paid for Robinson flight to visit allegedly detained UAE princess _ Middle East Eye

 

[LadyFinn]

Tiina Jauhiainen at her Twitter
"Whilst road-tripping in Australia I can’t help but think about Latifa whose dreams of freedom were shattered 10 months ago today #FreeLatifa #HumanRights #womensrights"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1081121296883351552

 

[StefanDi]

Interview with princess Haya in radio

Here´s an interview in Irish radio today with princess Haya. Nothing new under the stars. She´s trying to save Mary Robinson and only refers to Latifa as a "private family matter"...

https://soundcloud.com/rte-radio-1/princess-haya-interview

PS. The part about how her own children "has the right to freedom" is really annoying in the context.

 

[Biri]

Sad that children from the same father are divided as "better" and "worse".

 

[StefanDi]

Would be interesting to hear Latifas birth mothers point of view. How she thinks her husband is handling the situation? Although I don´t think that they are close according to Latifas video.

 

[Debbies]

Latifa's passport and ID cards are everywhere in the public domain, it is sufficient to google "Latifa Dubai passport" and several photos pop up… here below a link to an article discussing a UN request for clarification to India regarding the abudction, including photos of her passport and ID card - this reinforces the claim that she was approaching India with the appropriate papers and visa:
https://thewire.in/diplomacy/un-body-asks-india-to-respond-on-dubai-princess-disappearance

 

[Imanmajed]

Would be interesting to hear Latifas birth mothers point of view. How she thinks her husband is handling the situation? ...

The families of the UAE Rulers are notoriously private, for many reasons. One of which is security and safety of the families. So it makes sense that the Dubai royals would not be keen on inviting a media circus into their fold.

 

[Cassia]

I do not participate much in the topics but I felt like saying something here although my English is very bad. I do not think the UN or any country has an interest in contradicting the UAE because of one person. In my opinion, they are just pretending to care. Human rights cease to matter to most politicians when they have an economic or political interest in history. I feel sad for this girl.

 

[Debbies]

I share your view, however, I wish to add as a more optimistic note that values and business are increasingly coming together these days. Reputation, safety, human rights, transparency are now among the key elements for a country and its economy to attract business and tourism. The perceived lack of such key factors in a country are likely to have a tangible economic impact and to push it towards the margins of the international business, regardless of what public figures and international bodies may say or do.

 

[Reuniontrio]

Here´s an interview in Irish radio today with princess Haya. Nothing new under the stars. She´s trying to save Mary Robinson and only refers to Latifa as a "private family matter"...

https://soundcloud.com/rte-radio-1/princess-haya-interview

PS. The part about how her own children "has the right to freedom" is really annoying in the context.

My impression of Haya: sometime after the birth of her first child, she finally realized what she had married into. She had slowly learned the full truth of how other official and unofficial wives in the family had been treated and how children in the family were controlled.

Sometime after the birth of her second child, she came to the realization that her position as a member of the Jordanian royal family might not totally protect her and her children. She had been banking on being immune from the sort of things that happen to less important wives.

Now, I believe she is acting in whatever ways she needs to to secure the safety, happiness and relative freedom of her children. She knows now that Al Jalila will never kick up her heels for a few decades in Europe and have the experiences that she enjoyed. It is all going to be a delicate balancing act where the family's reputation is weighed against every decision her daughter makes. It will involve staying on good terms with her husband and being, or appearing to be, a team player.

Haya does have considerable power, in that she could seriously harm the al Maktoum family if she chose to go full berserker on them with the media. However, she is aware that such an action would cause serious political and economic harm to Jordan and her own family. Sheikh M. is also aware of these factors and is probably wondering why he married her. She is the most dangerous wife he has ever had, and he will try to keep her happy if possible.

So...it is all extremely interesting.

 

[Reuniontrio]

The families of the UAE Rulers are notoriously private, for many reasons. One of which is security and safety of the families. So it makes sense that the Dubai royals would not be keen on inviting a media circus into their fold.

Did you listen to Latifa's video on Youtube? That should give you insight into the status of Latifa's mother in the al Maktoum family (Latifa begins talking about this about 25-30 min. into the vid):


A paternal aunt decided she wanted Latifa as a baby. The aunt "took me away from my mom" at the age of six months. "So I lived for the first 10 years of my life in the palace believing that my aunt was, in fact, my mom." Latifa then explains that her mom gave her 3 month old brother to the same aunt, so the siblings would be together. That one was "more voluntary", by which we can infer that Latifa was given over against the wishes of her mother. Over time, they "were fighting to live with my mom".

That explains a lot of things. For instance, that is probably why Shamsa and Maitha are together in many childhood photos, but their other two siblings are nowhere to be seen. This practice of giving the children of low status wives to other relatives seems to be common in that family. Marwan, Maryam 1st, Latifa 2nd, Manal, Majid and who knows how many others? I'll bet Latifa 1st was raised by a paternal aunt too.

So, in short, no one ever cared about the opinion of Latifa's mother and they are certainly not going to start now. With two daughters who have shamed the family and a son who made an undesirable marriage, Latifa's mother is probably keeping her head down.

 

[Biri]

But separating children from their mother is contrary to the teachings of Islam.

 

[StefanDi]

Mary Robinson pulls out of Dubai literary festival:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-to-free-ahmed-mansoor-ahead-of-book-festival

 

[Rossina]

All the posts about Princess Haya & Sheikh Mohammed`s marriage have been deleted as SPECULATIVE and OFF TOPIC.

Please Remember that this thread is about Sheikha Latifa`s case.

Any further off-topic comments will be deleted without notice.

 

[Reuniontrio]

As I said, I do not find Haya all that interesting. The reason she came up is because she injected herself into Sheikha Latifa's situation by orchestrating a photographed "event" with Latifa.

Haya has taken several positions:
1. Latifa is a "vulnerable" person, meaning Latifa is mentally unsound. Crazy.
2. A mentally unsound woman does not have agency and it is the right of her family to control her, including to take her by force off a boat in international waters and hold her indefinitely.

So suddenly Haya DOES seem interesting.

Perhaps she actually believes that Latifa is unsound and should be detained by her own family.

In that case, Haya is hopelessly naive and backward.

Perhaps Haya believes, like most of the rest of us, that Latifa simply wanted to live freely. In that case, Haya is actively assisting in holding Latifa against her will by lying about Latifa's mental state and going to great lengths to pacify public concern about her.

In that case, Haya is aiding and abetting a cruel act. Punitive psychiatry is a hallmark of despotic regimes from Mao to Stalin.

There is no way that Haya can come out of this looking good. The best we can hope is that someone (I don't know who!) pressed her into making public statements about this situation and she felt she had little choice but to comply against her own better judgement.

 

[Imanmajed]

Haya has taken several positions:
1. Latifa is a "vulnerable" person, meaning Latifa is mentally unsound. Crazy.

I disagree with your statement. If someone is troubled and experiencing a difficult time in life that does not mean she is crazy (disease) automatically. It is not easy to have a social role from birth that you might never have chosen for yourself. It is impossible to replace your own identity as a member of a ruling family and it takes time to understand why you can not lead the life of someone else. You have to lead YOUR life. During this rough patch of life you are an easy victim for those who just want to use you for their own agenda. This way it makes sense and represented rather a family matter than a public spectacle. Maybe thats what HRH Princess Haya meant and why Sh. Latifa needs the help of those who are/was in a similar situation: members of her own family. And in my point of view HRH Princess Haya is the best soulful caring person who will be able to help Sheikha Latifa through difficult times in life.

 

[Somebody]

I don't think Latifa herself agrees with you. She clearly explained the huge difference that is made between family members and how unfair that was to her and several others. You can reason anything away by declaring someone 'troubled' but her video spoke for itself and she is not the first one whom did happened to. Apparently all troubled women to the men controlling their lives...

 

[Imanmajed]

I don't think Latifa herself agrees with you. She clearly explained the huge difference that is made between family members and how unfair that was to her and several others.

Somebody, do you think that life outside of a ruling family is fair to everyone without any difference?

...she is not the first one whom did happened to. Apparently all troubled women to the men controlling their lives...

How could she make all the preparations unnoticed if she was constantly controlled by men?

You can reason anything away by declaring someone 'troubled' but her video spoke for itself.

In order to be able to evaluate such video statements, you need to have some background informations about the creation of the recording. Can we be really sure it was her own and free decision or was someone in the dark motivating her to do so? Was her difficult time in life used by others for their own agenda?

In my life I learned not to look at things one-sidedly. Sometimes you have to change your perspective to get a deeper understanding of things. The video was missing something, there was a lack of emotions telling the story and I wonder why...

 

[Somebody]

Somebody, do you think that life outside of a ruling family is fair to everyone without any difference?

No, of course not. But that does not mean that we should endorse that kind of behavior.

She surely was more privileged than people who are starving from hunger but that doesn't mean that her suffering in the hands of her family wasn't real.

A related example: In many culture sons are treated better than daughters. Is that right? No. Does it happen? Yes. Will I stand with those who try to change that? Yes, if only by voicing my support. Will I be able to change it all? No, I can just make a small difference in my own environment and to try to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves.

And if, at some point, I was proven wrong in a specific case, I will gladly retract my specific statements regarding that case (I would gladly do so as that would be great news!) but not my general support for others who are in a situation like that (as she is far from the only one in this world).

In order to be able to evaluate such video statements, you need to have some background informations about the creation of the recording. Can we be really sure it was her own and free decision or was someone in the dark motivating her to do so? Was her difficult time in life used by others for their own agenda?

Nothing can be excluded and it could even be partly true (Latifa herself truly wanting out and someone else benefitting from supporting her in that endeavor). All we know so far (which is also consistent with previous behavior by the family and other reigning families in the region) suggests that she was taken against her free will. If the family was handling in good faith they could have easily responded within days and allow truly independent external medical doctors to evaluate her outside of Dubai in a place of Latifa's preference (i.e., in a place that was not controlled by them). However, they waited for close to a year to provide some half-hearted video. So, I see little reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Apparently, you see little reason to give Latifa the benefit of the doubt. Could you explain why? Do you think it is ok for Dubai's ruler to fully control his family and should Latifa just accept her faith in life or do you think she made it all up, her sister was never treated badly, so the family is truly tries to do what is best for Latifa herself?

 

[Imanmajed]

Apparently, you see little reason to give Latifa the benefit of the doubt. Could you explain why?

I dont see little reason to give benefit of doubt to one side if I am not familiar with all the background details of a story.

Do you think it is ok for Dubai's ruler to fully control his family

Reasons of security may cause rulers to take measures uncommon to ordinary people but necessary for rulers, presidents, kings and political figures to protect their families. In case you need an example: Just recently I read that a European royal house didnt fulfill the Christmas wish of their teenage daughter who want to have her own mobile because they was afraid of their privacy and safety. I also read the book of the wife of Barrack Obama, who wrote about her life as first lady, that she wasnt allowed to open a window or to go out buying something and that there was little space for her being away of “the men in black“.

...or do you think she made it all up, her sister was never treated badly, so the family is truly tries to do what is best for Latifa herself?

I dont know the full story of this private matter. Thats why I cant judge one party.

 

[Reuniontrio]

I disagree with your statement. If someone is troubled and experiencing a difficult time in life that does not mean she is crazy (disease) automatically. It is not easy to have a social role from birth that you might never have chosen for yourself. It is impossible to replace your own identity as a member of a ruling family and it takes time to understand why you can not lead the life of someone else. You have to lead YOUR life. During this rough patch of life you are an easy victim for those who just want to use you for their own agenda. This way it makes sense and represented rather a family matter than a public spectacle. Maybe thats what HRH Princess Haya meant and why Sh. Latifa needs the help of those who are/was in a similar situation: members of her own family. And in my point of view HRH Princess Haya is the best soulful caring person who will be able to help Sheikha Latifa through difficult times in life.

In Western parlance, "vulnerable" means someone who is limited in their decision-making ability, whether due to mental illness, addiction, senility or retardation. Haya knows exactly what it means. She went to Oxford.

What you seem to be implying is that Latifa's "problem" is an identity crisis in which she is trying to be "someone else", presumably a free woman rather than someone who is controlled by her family.

In fact, it is perfectly normal to want autonomy and to make life decisions for oneself.

 

[Imanmajed]

In Western parlance, "vulnerable" means someone who is limited in their decision-making ability, whether due to mental illness, addiction, senility or retardation. Haya knows exactly what it means. She went to Oxford.

It is not always just the Western view that you should take when discussing an Eastern situation. ;-) HRH Princess Haya is skilled in both and certainly acting well on the diplomatic floor. The wise and ambiguous use of the word can be a protection needed to find constructive solutions.

What you seem to be implying is that Latifa's "problem" is an identity crisis in which she is trying to be "someone else", presumably a free woman rather than someone who is controlled by her family.

During an identity crisis the decision-making ability is limited. Decisions are often made in terms that seem less realistic or less promising and sometimes even life-destroying.

In fact, it is perfectly normal to want autonomy and to make life decisions for oneself.

True, but not every life decision is “normal“ in a way to become to be true or being realistic and well considered first. Some decisions could have been made unilaterally focussed on a single wish without understanding it holistically in a context of living.

 

[Somebody]

During an identity crisis the decision-making ability is limited. Decisions are often made in terms that seem less realistic or less promising.

Labelling a perfectly reasonable desire an identity crisis doesn't make acceptable to lock that person up just because you don't agree with their decisions.

 

[Somebody]

In Western parlance, "vulnerable" means someone who is limited in their decision-making ability, whether due to mental illness, addiction, senility or retardation. Haya knows exactly what it means. She went to Oxford.

Yes, Haya indeed knows what message she is presenting to the media. Whether that is true at all or just the story they were able to come up with (and Haya might prefer to believe it) is an entirely different question.

 

[Imanmajed]

Labelling a perfectly reasonable desire an identity crisis doesn't make acceptable to lock that person up just because you don't agree with their decisions.

What makes you sure that I am going to look a person up because of their decisions or a resonable desire? But like I wrote before we dont know every detail of the story. There are some points unclear which might to lead us to a completely different view of the matter.

 

[Somebody]

What makes you sure that I am going to look a person up because of their decisions or a resonable desire? But like I wrote before we dont know every detail of the story. There are some points unclear which might to lead us to a completely different view of the matter.

You aren't but so far I have seen little evidence to suggest that Latifa's family didn't do so and you are defending them (on the basis of not knowing the full story). Is it because to you the individual should always submit to the larger powers to preserve their interests. So, community is more important than individual and there is little an individual shouldn't endure just to preserve the 'name/image' of the larger group?

I wonder whether our different perspective is mainly a cultural clash (shame vs guilt society). So, while I don't think I will agree with your perspective, I try to understand where you are coming from.

 

[LadyFinn]

Tiina Jauhiainen has given an interview to finnish news magazine Suomen Kuvalehti. It is mainly behind a paywall.

Princess's soulmate
Tiina Jauhiainen became an advocate of human rights through the international hijacking drama.

You weren't even tortured.
"Insulting underrating", Tiina Jauhiainen says of the claim that she has heard during the last months. "Psychological torture can be at least as scary and painful."
Last April, Jauhiainen spent more than two weeks in isolation from the outside world in a United Arab Emirates prison.
"Interrogations lasting almost twenty hours without water and food, death threats, many days of complete isolation. The lights were on all the time. Only from the prayer I calls could conclude the time. There was cold water in the shower, there was no soap. In the end, I started to hear strange noises in the buzz of the air conditioner. "

Dubain prinsessaa pakomatkalla auttanut Tiina Jauhiainen pettyi Suomeen – Soinin mielipidekirjoitus ”surkea esimerkki” - Suomenkuvalehti.fi

 

[StefanDi]

Is the Republic of Finland doing enything sense Tina, a finish citizen was impriosned in UAE after being kidnaped in an act of piracy on international waters?

 

[Al_bina]

Finland can lodge a diplomatic protest. The UAE can accuse Ms Jauhiainen of taking advantage of Sheikha Latifa, who is said to be vulnerable.

 

[LadyFinn]

Is the Republic of Finland doing enything sense Tina, a finish citizen was impriosned in UAE after being kidnaped in an act of piracy on international waters?

Timo Soini, the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Finland, told in May, that Finland sent several notes to United Arab Emirates when the news came that Tiina Jauhiainen was kept in prison. The case and the realization of the rights of Finnish citizens were discussed at a high level in Abu Dhabi, New Delhi and Helsinki. Antti Putkonen, the Director of Unit for Consular Assistance at the Ministry, said that notes are a normal way for states to exchange information. In this case, the information was requested from the UAE authorities, both at the notes and at the meetings. The Finnish Ministry for Foreign Affairs is always interested in how Finnish citizens are treated abroad. It belongs to the Foreign Ministry. According to Putkonen, the issue is not commented more closely in public due to "protection of privacy".
Soini lähetti useita nootteja Arabiemiraateille Dubaissa kadonneen suomalaisen vuoksi – UM vaikenee noottien sisällöstä - Kotimaa - Ilta-Sanomat