Restoration of the Serbian Monarchy

[fandesacs2003]

This...he was unfortunately raised without the role of either father or mother by his side so who could teach him anything!?He was something like a forgotten child...

On his web page it is said that he speaks fluently 6 languages...Apart from his English that I have heard which is fluent(don't know about other languages,),but his Serbian is certainly far from fluent!

Raised by Aspasia Manou, being herself a widow very young. She entered to History, but did she find any hapiness after? We do not know.
It should alro be sad for a young boy to see his parents unable to take care of him.
What about his serbian uncle? Could he substitute a father?

I had a look at wikipedia and saw that Aspasia Manou used to live in Greece till 1967. Was he with her? Or he was in boarding schools for all his childhood?

 

[Marc23]

Raised by Aspasia Manou, being herself a widow very young. She entered to History, but did she find any hapiness after? We do not know.
It should alro be sad for a young boy to see his parents unable to take care of him.
What about his serbian uncle? Could he substitute a father?

No,as he was just under his care...he spent most of the childhood time in boarding schools which means that "taking care" just means that during his holidays from school he has someone to visit and come to...and his uncle was a man with open arms for him...unlike his parents!

It is also interesting that he found out about his father's death from the TV news while he was in military school in Germany...this about sums it up about what kind of relations he had with them...

 

[Marc23]

Raised by Aspasia Manou

They lived in villa "The Garden of Eden" in Venice...here is an article with some photos:

FictionalCities :: Venice - The Garden of Eden

 

[fandesacs2003]

They lived in villa "The Garden of Eden" in Venice...here is an article with some photos:

FictionalCities :: Venice - The Garden of Eden

Thanks! You seem to know everything.
Story is very romantic and very very sad.
CP looks a lot to his mum.
IMO most of money the CP might have comes from maternal side. I do not think his father being chassed from his country have managed to save money abroad.

 

[Benjamin]

The marriage of King Peter and Queen Alexandra was plagued by financial problems, in addition to his alcoholism and her mental troubles.

 

[Cory]

The marriage of King Petar II was quite full of difficult moments.

 

[Marc23]

Thanks! You seem to know everything.
Story is very romantic and very very sad.
CP looks a lot to his mum.
IMO most of money the CP might have comes from maternal side. I do not think his father being chassed from his country have managed to save money abroad.

Well,King Peter II once said for his wife during first years of their marriage:"Although Queen in name only,Alexandra spends like a real Queen."

Countess Maria Anna von Wurmbrand-Stuppach,also known as Eti Plesh wrote in her memoirs that her husband multimillionaire Arpad Plesch had a affair with Queen Alexandra...

There is also a rumor that CP Alexander sold the House without her consignment and has sent his mother into the care of Home for old people in Britain and took the money just for himself...

His father King Peter II also spent almost everything he had,so there was not much left from his side,apart from one golden watch that he left to Alexander...some money that he still had he left to his new acquired friends and their Church in US and just one small amount to Alexandra as his legal widow...Alexander got nothing,except for the watch!

Sad destiny for "cousin Sandra" as she was known at British Court prior to he marriage!

 

[Marc23]

The marriage of King Peter and Queen Alexandra was plagued by financial problems, in addition to his alcoholism and her mental troubles.

Yes,he was a heavy drinker and Alexandra was prone to pills and suicide as she tried it several times....She was very much in love with Peter II but he just couldn't keep it up with her after just few years of marriage!

 

[Benjamin]

Indeed, very sad; just goes to show that royals are susceptible to the same issues as non-royals. Prince Andrej also had a rather turbulent personal life. Apparently his third wife was a real creature.

Are the sons of Prince Tomislav and Princess Linda at all active in Serbia? Did not one of them have a daughter and serve in the armed forces?

 

[Marc23]

Yes,he did.Prince Andrej was a great womanizer and as Prince Tomislav said in his memoires:"The women simply adored him.".His first two wives and also cousins Christina von Hessen-Kassel and Kira Melita von Leiningen were involved in a fight over him...later he left his second wife and children and Princess Kira had to sell her family Romanov jewels for the price that equaled just 3% of it's real value,but they got money and were living 2 years just from that sale...

Prince Andrej's third wife was previously lover of his brother King Peter II and also married to a Chinese doctor Lou.Her name was Milica(known as Mici Lou),but when she married Andrej,she changed her name to Eva Maria and she as his widow is also one of the legal heirs of King Alexander I...She was one of the members of so called anti-church in Libertyville of which Peter and later Andrej was a members.Peter II left everything that he had to this Church and his friends...

Princess Eva Maria gave just one interview and here it is,unfortunately only in Serbian,but just to get the idea how she looks like:

Kraljev testament Mici Lou - YouTube

Prince Tomislav's wife Linda lives in a Villa that has been given to her when she is in Belgrade,but most of the time she is on relation between London and Belgrade like her sons...although I think they live now more in London.

Prince George(elder one) was not in armed forces but studied Military Academy which he later quieted...He has out of wedlock daughter Anastasia with a girl named Milica Milutinovic(a bit of a rebel),but as she never wanted to marry him under his conditions they split up soon after the birth of their daughter...She didn't want to marry him because she and her mother are members of the Adventist Church which prohibited them to marry someone who is supported by Serbian Church and under it's Orthodox laws-as George wanted...few months ago she was even denied visa for Great Britain and everybody thinks that it has something to do with her past with the Prince...

Prince Michail(younger one) is I think also in London right now...While in Serbia,he tried to do some photoshooting as a model,but it never worked out!

 

[Marc23]

IMO most of money the CP might have comes from maternal side. I do not think his father being chassed from his country have managed to save money abroad.

I must correct myself now.I just listened to King Peter's testament in which it is said that apart from the golden watch he left Alexander a sum of just 5.000 $ with a note that "during his life he received many presents from him,financial support and has been taken care of due to his money.".He left 75 % of everything he owned to his widow Queen Alexandra and the rest 25 % to his friends and so called Church in Livertyville...

So,basically testament shows that Peter II had some savings,but again Alexander got nothing from his father due to his words that "he received more than enough during his lifetime."

 

[Cory]

Prince Vladimir seems to ve very present in the life of the Serbian society.

 

[Marc23]

He is still not well known,but in recent times he is trying hard,along with his wife...they are modest,down to earth,not pushy at all and although his Serbian is wobbly(he started to learn it much later than CP Alexander) he seems to be really honest about his feelings towards Serbia and willing to do more...

 

[Cory]

Prince Vladimir visits different places in Serbia and seems to be quite respected .

 

[fandesacs2003]

I have been through the web today abt the SRF and found 2 interesting information.
1. This Princess Elisabeth chassed from the Palace is the daughter of the former Regent. Maybe CPA is affraid for his position?
2. It was also another family, the Obrenovic which regned in Serbia. Do they have descendants which can pretend to the throne?

 

[latinist]

"If we have chosen his great-grandfather or his grandfather as a King and Serbian leader that doesn't automatically mean that we want him to be the leader of our children and grandchildren.In this situation,I think that we have more important issues to deal with then to think about the monarchy.The idea of monarchy is just not healthy."

Of course we have more important issues to talk about and debate, "we politicians" always have our own agenda, why would we be so stupid, to call for a monarchy restoration, when that would only damage our precious goals. That would endanger our control and access to the power.
Wouldn't it be much better if one of us, controllable and from the "game" would be the leader of our children and grandchildren, instead of a king/queen ???

 

[Marc23]

I have been through the web today abt the SRF and found 2 interesting information.
1. This Princess Elisabeth chassed from the Palace is the daughter of the former Regent. Maybe CPA is affraid for his position?
2. It was also another family, the Obrenovic which regned in Serbia. Do they have descendants which can pretend to the throne?

Princess Elizabeth is daughter of the regent Prince Paul and Princess Olga of Greece...Alexander is not afraid for his official position,but she is the most popular and respected member of the royal family and as such CP and his wife would always be out of the spotlight...that's why they don't like her presence-they get overshadowed and Katherina doesn't like it at all 'cause she is a real attention seeker,unlike the Prince...The other reason is that there are many valuable art objects and furniture that were the possession of her father for which she still has bills and he doesn't want anything from the palaces to be taken away...in fact,in the contract CP has signed with the Government nothing can be taken out of both Palaces,only can be "inserted" which means that she and her brother can't get into the possession of their heritage,which is very valuable as their father was very rich and was an art collector,nor can she enjoy in it as she was banned from the palace...

There are many descendants of Obrenovic family,but they can't claim the throne because only male line legitimate descendants could claim it and they were extinct with the murder of King Alexander Obrenovic...but,there are heirs to their fortune left to them by Queen Nathalia.They are male descendants of Prince Milosh's half-brother Jakov,but as their ancestor was not son of the ruler and half-brother(through mother) of the first founder of the dynasty,they didn't have any title and as such can't be pretenders to the throne,but can inherit their fortune...

There are also many female line descendants of Prince Milosh Obrenovic...among them is Alexander Joseph,present Fürst Sulkowski and 10th Herzog zu Bielitz,born in 1940...if Serbia had even Semi-Salic Law of succession he could be pretender to the throne!

 

[Marc23]

Prince Vladimir visits different places in Serbia and seems to be quite respected .

Among people who know him,yes he is...he doesn't look at that as a job,he just likes doing it and people can feel it...I am a friend with him on fb and he get's into the heated and very detailed discussion with his foreign friends defending Serbia and trying to explain all that has been going on!That is the very first sign that he truly does care...

The only unfortunate thing is that he is not yet that well known to the majority of the population as there are so many Kardjordjevic members today and nobody quite knows who is who and who is whose son/daughter among all those descendants living today....except for CP Alexander Princess Elizabeth!

 

[fandesacs2003]

The other reason is that there are many valuable art objects and furniture that were the possession of her father for which she still has bills and he doesn't want anything from the palaces to be taken away...in fact,in the contract CP has signed with the Government nothing can be taken out of both Palaces,only can be "inserted" which means that she and her brother can't get into the possession of their heritage,which is very valuable as their father was very rich and was an art collector,nor can she enjoy in it as she was banned from the palace...

Understand! Many treasorsbelong to Princess Elisabeth, but is someone else who enjoys them!! Nice!!
But she does not react fopr this "illegal" bannishment?

 

[Marc23]

Understand! Many treasorsbelong to Princess Elisabeth, but is someone else who enjoys them!! Nice!!
But she does not react fopr this "illegal" bannishment?

Well,she can't as all this is still in possession of the state.The state has been given back both palaces just for use to all Karadjordjevic descendants,but CP as a Head of the family later made an agreement with the Government that he won't ask the Palaces to be given back(renounce the claim) in exchange for lifelong rent free usage just to him,his wife and sons...

That was the Pandora box he opened as many other royal family members were angry and asked how can he made an agreement in their name without even asking them and he answered that he is the Head of the family and as such he is entitled to that...

He also said that everything in the palaces should remain compact,because if everyone would ask for it's share nothing would be left-I understand his point there...but the unfair thing is that only he and his immediate family enjoy usage of the palaces while other members can enter only as guests or as tourists-Princess Elizabeth once entered as a tourist with a tourist group and said that she was not satisfied with what she had seen,she also said he doesn't care properly about palaces and has neglected many art objects!

When asked why other members do not use the palace CP said that there is no space for all of them,while Princess Elizabeth said that he is not saying the truth as there are 16 apartments existing within the complex!

 

[James VI]

Prince Paul

Is the late Prince Paul still regarded as a traitor, in Serb society, and if so, how much of a factor is the legacy of WWII in influencing attitudes towards restoration of the Monarchy?

 

[Marc23]

Is the late Prince Paul still regarded as a traitor, in Serb society, and if so, how much of a factor is the legacy of WWII in influencing attitudes towards restoration of the Monarchy?

Unfortunately,legacy of WWII still affects attitudes towards restoration of the Monarchy.Many people still repeat that the royal family escaped the country when the war started leaving people on their own,which is far from truth...they were ordered and forced to leave the country within hours(first Prince Paul-the Regent and later King Peter II)...

The newest thing is that the late Prince Paul has been officially rehabilitated two months ago by the Court of Justice,owing much to the the hard work of his daughter who started the whole process of rehabilitation and provided valuable documents in his favor given to her by MI6 with special permission of Queen Elizabeth II...

 

[James VI]

Thank you Marc. I`m pleased to hear of the recent developments over Prince Paul`s reputation, i have always believed that he was wrongly condemned as a traitor, anyone with an ounce of common sense could appreciate the absolutely impossible situation he found himself in, in 1941. Could anyone of us truthfully say that we would have acted differently, under similar circumstances? WWII does play very heavily in the Balkans, i have found, and together with the legacy of the communist " Kings " Tito, Ceaucsescu, Hoxha etc, must surely influence popular opinion on the issue of restoration.

 

[Cory]

Princess Elisabeth is doing a wonderful job for her Family and for her country.

 

[Marc23]

anyone with an ounce of common sense could appreciate the absolutely impossible situation he found himself in, in 1941.

He applied Britain for help,but to no avail...they remained silent and therefore he had to meet Hitler in order to try and prevent a disaster to his country...

So,there was no other possible solution left for him.

 

[fandesacs2003]

I read that pcs Elisabeth is the mother of Catherine Oxenberg. Imagine that we knew her since 30 years, without really undestand who really she was! And her grandmum was a greek Pcs!
There is also a Serbian prince who is art collector, and one or two others very well known in the intermational VIP circles.
There are many interesting persons from the former serbian RF. The less fascinating is thd CP and his operetta wife!

 

[Marc23]

I read that pcs Elisabeth is the mother of Catherine Oxenberg. Imagine that we knew her since 30 years, without really undestand who really she was! And her grandmum was a greek Pcs!
There is also a Serbian prince who is art collector, and one or two others very well known in the intermational VIP circles.
There are many interesting persons from the former serbian RF. The less fascinating is thd CP and his operetta wife!

Princess Elizabeth was very well known in high society circles when she was young and had a very interesting life...

She was a rebel princess who escaped her life of protocol and royal form by going away from home to US when scheduled to meet Belgian Prince Baudoin and was famous for her marriages,once to a Russian Jew millionaire Howard Oxenberg(17 years older than her),once to British aristocrat Neil Roxburgh Balfour(now married to Serena Mary Churchill Russell,niece of the Duke of Marlborough) and thirdly to Prime minister of Peru Manuell Ulloa Ellias.She was even engaged to Richard Burton,but broke up with him because he was an alcoholic(quoting her:"Absolutely fascinating guy when he was straight,but when he was drunk-it was just unbearable.") and had many lovers.

Among them where Frank Sinatra and American President John.F Kennedy with whom it is speculated she has her second daughter Christina Oxenberg(Christina herself suggested in her book "Royal blue" that J.F.Kennedy is her biological father).

It is said that he was crazy about her promising her that he would leave Merilyn and would divorce Jacky...There was also a rumor that Merilyn Monroe committed a suicide when she heard about this...

During the Cuban crises when Soviet ships were floating towards Cuba,Kennedy abandoned War Council sessions just to be with her.CIA didn't like it at all and did everything to break up the relationship between the President and Princess Elizabeth as they were afraid that she could have influenced him in some political matters concerning Soviet Union as she has grown up influenced and very proud of her Russian roots from both sides(Demidoff and Romanov)...

Other than that she had many friends worldwide including Michail Gorbachov...She was some kind of host during conference in Moscow organized by Gorbachov where Yugoslav Minister for Religious Affairs,Orthodox Bishop Sava and Mufti of Belgrade were all invited by her...She was also friends with Mother Theresa,Dalaj Lama,the Archbishop of Canterbury,Al Gore and astronomer Carl Sagan...

So,she was not a saint,but despite all this,she is still very well respected in Serbia due to her love for Sebia,due to her charity work,due to her sense of style and appearance and due to public behavior of a real princess as people say or comment about her...

What is more interesting is that all her former husbands still loved her...Howard Oxenberg visited her in Belgrade when he was 89 years old,some time before he died and Neil Balfour regularely still visits her in Belgrade even writing a book about his ex father in law-Prince Paul...it seems she has some kind of charisma!

When asked about her love life she said that she loved her every partner differently and for each of them had a clear reason for marrying...In one interview she says:"Greek people have 6 words for love as all loves are not the same."

 

[fandesacs2003]

Marc23 your knowledge is fascinating! It is a pleasure to read your posts! Thanks a lot.

 

[NGalitzine]

She ran for President of Serbia but received only 2% of the popular vote. CP Alexander opposed members of the royal family getting involved in partisan politics. What ever happened to her political party? Was it disbanded?

 

[Ruhije]

Serbian Monarchy Status.

Could someone who is up-to-date or specialised in information on The Serbian Royal Family please explain to me the exact official status on the returned Serbian Royal Family and Crown Prince Alexander in Serbia?
Im very well informed on the situation of The Albanian Zogu Royal Family, and im particularly interested to know the official status and position of The Serbian Royal Family in comparison with that of the Albanian, Montenegro, and Romanian Royal families and their new positions since returning from exile.
In regards to Albania and Montenegro, their returned Royal families now have official State recognition, some property restitution, State salaries & pension allowance, and official diplomatic status and Government positions or roles.
I know that C.Prince Alexander lives in one of his family palaces, but other than this, i know nothing of their official and legal status and position in Serbia?
Thank you.