Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant News and Events 1, Oct 2019 - Feb 2024

[Moonmaiden23]

Question..after she completes her year of military school, will Elisabeth be expected to appear at National Day ceremonies in uniform?

I think a male heir might have to do this, but Elisabeth will be the first queen of the Belgians in her own right.

I don't ever see Victoria of Sweden in uniform, though she is in the same position as Elisabeth.

 

[Blog Real]

Princess Elisabeth will have to live a life of restrictions and will have to avoid scandals, she certainly knows that this is her life.
I hope that the magazines don't start chasing her now and that she might still have some freedom.
But it's inevitable that when she has her first real boyfriend, then the photographers will all fall on her... But that's part of being the future queen of a country.

 

[leidi]

Question..after she completes her year of military school, will Elisabeth be expected to appear at National Day ceremonies in uniform?

I think a male heir might have to do this, but Elisabeth will be the first queen of the Belgians in her own right.

I don't ever see Victoria of Sweden in uniform, though she is in the same position as Elisabeth.

If she gets any kind of military rank, she will, her aunt Astrid has often showed in military uniform at the National Day and Te Deum ceremonies.

 

[Countessmeout]

Question..after she completes her year of military school, will Elisabeth be expected to appear at National Day ceremonies in uniform?

I think a male heir might have to do this, but Elisabeth will be the first queen of the Belgians in her own right.

I don't ever see Victoria of Sweden in uniform, though she is in the same position as Elisabeth.

While Victoria did basic military training, she never served in the armed forces, she has no rank. Unlike with the British royals, she doesn't have an honorary rank either. In contrast to her father and brother who completed full training and service in the navy, and received a rank.

Elisabeth will be in a similar position as Victoria. She is not taking the full training. She is simply doing a year at the military academy. She will not have a rank when she leaves. While she is at the academy, she would wear their uniform to events.

In the future she is likely to receive an honorary rank (before she is queen). Her Aunt Astrid is a colonel of the medical corps and wears an uniform to National day. Elisabeth likely would as well.

 

[Helen.CH]

My apologies for using 'of Belgium' instead of 'of the Belgians' which somehow threw this discussion of rail.

If you indeed find lots of 'King Filip of Belgium' references, that would contradict the previous statement that the French version is always/typically used by the family (and as a result the media); as Filip is clearly the Dutch and not French version (which is Philippe) of his name. My impression was that Philippe is far more prevalent outside of Belgium and the Netherlands but glad to know that I was wrong and that the situation is not as dire as you feared - as we found at least one exception.

King of the Belgians is his title. Philippe from Belgium his name/surname for all family members.

 

[Somebody]

King of the Belgians is his title. Philippe from Belgium his name/surname for all family members.

Apparently, their surname would be 'of Saxe-Coburg' not 'of Belgium'. However, they are indeed princes/princesses of Belgium.

 

[Mbruno]

Parents can have a say but they can’t force her to do anything and if she wants to go her own way she will. 18 year olds should Be chafing at the bit and not need Or want constant parental input whether they are heirs or not. If they fall they get stronger and smarter Hopefully

Of course, as the heir, she cannot go "her own way". For starters, she cannot marry without the King's consent or else she loses her place in the line of the succession. And I am pretty sure she has limited choices when it comes to her study plans, starting now with military training which is probably something that was imposed on her too.



But I fail to see why we are having this discussion at all. Elisabeth seems to be a very well-behaved and well-rounded girl. Not at all wild as other heirs have been in the past in other countries.

Apparently, their surname would be 'of Saxe-Coburg' not 'of Belgium'. However, they are indeed princes/princesses of Belgium.

My understand is that they do not use a family name as part of their legal name. Prince of Belgium is a title, not a name. Philippe's legal name is


Sa Majesté le Roi Philippe Léopold Louis Marie, Roi des Belges, Prince de Belgique


In daily use, he is called simply "S.M. le Roi" or "S.M. le Roi Philippe" (the latter would be more common for an emeritus king after abdication however). The preambles to royal decrees say only "Philippe, Roi des Belges".



Elisabeth's legal name on the other hand is

Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Élisabeth Thérèse Marie Hélène, Duchesse de Brabant, Princesse de Belgique.


In daily use, she used to be called simply "S.A.R. la Princesse Élisabeth", but nowadays the Court prefers to use, "S.A.R. la Princesse Élisabeth, Duchesse de Brabant".


Note that the English-type styles such as "S.A.R. la Duchesse de Brabant" or "S.A.R. la Princesse Élisabeth de Belgique" do not appear to be common in Belgium.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Apparently, their surname would be 'of Saxe-Coburg' not 'of Belgium'. However, they are indeed princes/princesses of Belgium.

My understand is that they do not use a family name as part of their legal name. Prince of Belgium is a title, not a name. Philippe's legal name is


Sa Majesté le Roi Philippe Léopold Louis Marie, Roi des Belges, Prince de Belgique


In daily use, he is called simply "S.M. le Roi" or "S.M. le Roi Philippe" (the latter would be more common for an emeritus king after abdication however). The preambles to royal decrees say only "Philippe, Roi des Belges".



Elisabeth's legal name on the other hand is

Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Élisabeth Thérèse Marie Hélène, Duchesse de Brabant, Princesse de Belgique.


In daily use, she used to be called simply "S.A.R. la Princesse Élisabeth", but nowadays the Court prefers to use, "S.A.R. la Princesse Élisabeth, Duchesse de Brabant".


Note that the English-type styles such as "S.A.R. la Duchesse de Brabant" or "S.A.R. la Princesse Élisabeth de Belgique" do not appear to be common in Belgium.

Exactly, you are both completely right. The understanding from King Philippe's royal decree of 2015 and in Royal Palace briefings to royal reporters from 2015 to 2017 was that Princess/Prince of Belgium is purely a title and not a surname and that although they use "of Belgium" informally as a surname, the true legal surname of the descendants in male line of King Leopold I is "of Saxe-Coburg", itself derived from the unused titles of Duchess/Duke of Saxony and Princess/Prince of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha which they continue to have.

The Delphine Boël court case will show whether the courts agree with this understanding. That is no guarantee, since there are many legal experts who disagree with it in whole or in part.

On a side note: Princess Elisabeth's first name is officially spelled with an unaccented E in both French and Dutch (see monarchie.be).

 

[Helen.CH]

Apparently, their surname would be 'of Saxe-Coburg' not 'of Belgium'. However, they are indeed princes/princesses of Belgium.

Both is correct, sorry, i missed to say they USE of Belgium as a surname,
I thought the distinction was your question.

 

[An Ard Ri]

There's an existing thread on Title of the Belgian Royal Family so lets try and keep this one on topic!

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f29/titles-of-the-belgian-royal-family-38975.html

 

[CyrilVladisla]

For how long will Princess Elisabeth be attending the military school?

 

[leidi]

No pics of Elisabeth entering the military school?

 

[Countessmeout]

For how long will Princess Elisabeth be attending the military school?

It was explained at the time of the announcement she would attend, that she would be taking an one year course.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

For how long will Princess Elisabeth be attending the military school?

She will complete one year out of a four-year program. See https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...vents-october-2019-a-46853-3.html#post2315438

 

[Mbruno]

She will complete one year out of a four-year program. See https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...vents-october-2019-a-46853-3.html#post2315438

Her father took the four-year course at the Royal Military School and never got a bachelor's degree from a university. Instead, he went straight into a two-year master's program at Stanford University where got an M.A. in Political Science.


Does that mean a four-year-degree from the Royal Military School is considered equivalent to a bachelor's degree or even higher?


EDIT: In any case, since Elisabeth is taking only one year of the four-year program, I assume she will take another undergraduate degree at a university after that. Have any additional plans been announced regarding her ffuture education?

 

[Somebody]

Her father took the four-year course at the Royal Military School and never got a bachelor's degree from a university. Instead, he went straight into a two-year master's program at Stanford University where got an M.A. in Political Science.


Does that mean a four-year-degree from the Royal Military School is considered equivalent to a bachelor's degree or even higher?


EDIT: In any case, since Elisabeth is taking only one year of the four-year program, I assume she will take another undergraduate degree at a university after that. Have any additional plans been announced regarding her ffuture education?

Yes, nowadays, the program is 5 years in duration: 3 years for the Bachelor degree and 2 years for the master's degree. They can either get the 'Master of Science in Engineering Sciences' or a 'Master of Science in Social and Military Sciences' as final degree.

Wikipedia has a short explanation.

 

[ofkingsandqueens]

No pics of Elisabeth entering the military school?

I was hoping to see some pictures too, hopefully later in the week once students get settled. I don't know how the program is structured but maybe the school has events like a uniform day that would be suitable for photo ops.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Yes, nowadays, the program is 5 years in duration: 3 years for the Bachelor degree and 2 years for the master's degree. They can either get the 'Master of Science in Engineering Sciences' or a 'Master of Science in Social and Military Sciences' as final degree.

Wikipedia has a short explanation.

Then why does it say the master's degree is one academic year on the school's website (refer to the link in my earlier post)?

ETA: Here is the text from that link:

Het bachelor programma in de sociale en militaire wetenschappen omvat 180 studiepunten, is gespreid over drie academiejaren en wordt afgesloten met een bachelor proef. Naast academische cursussen krijgen de studenten ook een militaire en fysieke vorming. De verdeling van de globale werklast is ongeveer 75% academisch, 5 % militaire vorming, 10% karakteriële vorming en 10% lichamelijke opvoeding en sport.

De master in de sociale en militaire wetenschappen bestaat uit 60 studiepunten (een academiejaar), wordt afgesloten met een masterproef en wordt volledig in het Engels gedoceerd. De masterstudenten kunnen kiezen uit een van volgende oriëntaties:​

 

[leidi]

HOLA reports that Elisabeth is already at the training center in Elsenborn and that she will be a part of the beginners' parade in Brussels in four weeks, she'll get her blue beret as a cadet then.

Hopefully we'll get pics of that day.

 

[Somebody]

Then why does it say the master's degree is one academic year on the school's website (refer to the link in my earlier post)?

ETA: Here is the text from that link:

Het bachelor programma in de sociale en militaire wetenschappen omvat 180 studiepunten, is gespreid over drie academiejaren en wordt afgesloten met een bachelor proef. Naast academische cursussen krijgen de studenten ook een militaire en fysieke vorming. De verdeling van de globale werklast is ongeveer 75% academisch, 5 % militaire vorming, 10% karakteriële vorming en 10% lichamelijke opvoeding en sport.

De master in de sociale en militaire wetenschappen bestaat uit 60 studiepunten (een academiejaar), wordt afgesloten met een masterproef en wordt volledig in het Engels gedoceerd. De masterstudenten kunnen kiezen uit een van volgende oriëntaties:​

Thanks! I had not checked that link but it seems the master program for this 'social studies'-degree is indeed 60 EC's (which is comparable to other social science master degrees), while the other master program is 120 EC's (also comparable to other engineering master degrees).

It seems like Elisabeth is taking the course with the lowest amount of Military training:
Social & Military Sciences: 75% academic, 5% military training, 10% character formation and 10% general fitness & sports.
Civil Engineering: 80% academic, 15 % military training, 5% general fitness & sports.

 

[An Ard Ri]

HOLA reports that Elisabeth is already at the training center in Elsenborn and that she will be a part of the beginners' parade in Brussels in four weeks, she'll get her blue beret as a cadet then.

Hopefully we'll get pics of that day.

Looks like we'll be seeing more and more of the duchess!

 

[leidi]

Video of the first day at the Academy, Elisabeth can be seen at the 2.05 minute

 

[Countessmeout]

You know I am glad we didn't get any official photos of her entering. She is just another new cadet entering for her year. None of the photo hoopla her younger sister went through today going back to school.

She will have decades of pictures and public events as heir and eventual queen. Nice she can be a normal student during this time.

I look forward to hopefully some photos of the parade in a few weeks and seeing her with her classmates in it.

 

[Mbruno]

Thanks! I had not checked that link but it seems the master program for this 'social studies'-degree is indeed 60 EC's (which is comparable to other social science master degrees), while the other master program is 120 EC's (also comparable to other engineering master degrees).

It seems like Elisabeth is taking the course with the lowest amount of Military training:
Social & Military Sciences: 75% academic, 5% military training, 10% character formation and 10% general fitness & sports.
Civil Engineering: 80% academic, 15 % military training, 5% general fitness & sports.

I don't know much about social sciences, but the engineering program seems to be similar to other engineering degrees in military academies in other countries, which are also mostly academic. It looks like an interesting program, but I doubt Elisabeth will get a lot from it staying for a year only.

Academically, most of the classes she will take in first year will be roughly the same classes she would have in a regular, civilian university and the military training component won't be significant.


EDIT 1: I really liked the plastic (?) cubicles for each individual student in the classroom. I wish all schools had something like that in the current circumstances.


EDIT 2: What is the reason for the English-language signs? Does the school have a lot of international students?

 

[Countessmeout]

In recent years there have been an increased in students from other countries. Luxembourg being the main one but others including Canada and the US. Putting signs in English which would be more widely spoken among the foreign students makes sense.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

EDIT 2: What is the reason for the English-language signs? Does the school have a lot of international students?

Not only the signs but, according to the school's website (linked a few posts above), the master's program in social and military sciences is conducted entirely in English.

 

[Mbruno]

Not only the signs but, according to the school's website (linked a few posts above), the master's program in social and military sciences is conducted entirely in English.

I assume Elisabeth also had to pass the academic admission exam in addition to the physical tests. It looks like admission is really tough.

 

[Countessmeout]

I assume Elisabeth also had to pass the academic admission exam in addition to the physical tests. It looks like admission is really tough.

I'd hope she'd be expected to pass the same entrance exams as any other student. And not simply get in due to being the future queen.

She seems in great shape, and she got into an academic program in Wales. So I don't see any concern to think she didn't get through on her own.

 

[Somebody]

I assume Elisabeth also had to pass the academic admission exam in addition to the physical tests. It looks like admission is really tough.

It consists of:
* A 350 word summary of a 1000 word essay in your mother tongue (Dutch/French/German)
* Some elementary exercises (translation of 15 sentences and one open answer question) in one of the other languages of Belgium (so, either Dutch/French/German) - I wonder which one Elisabeth picked for which exercise
* Maths exercise: 10 MC-questions; 10 open questions (end of high school level; those taking the engineering degree do an additional maths exam)

Previous admission tests are available, so prospective students may come prepared.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Elisabeth's mother tongue is French and she excels in Dutch. So it's fairly easy to guess which languages she might have chosen for the language portion of the exam