Prince Harry's Afrika Korps Costume: January 2005

[grknight52]

Symbol or the misusage of it?

I thing that you are wrong!
At first, why the swastika (Gammadion) is a direct symbol of hatred towards Jews and not other ppl of WWII? For the other ppls of Europe, nazism had other symbols?
And 2nd, you don't wants to get off topic it,....and you believe that's write?
If Saddam H. of Irak had taken a Brit.royal symbol and put this to his baath's party, you shall confounded the Brit. royal symbol? and no the person? and no the practice of him?
The Crusaders 800 y. ago arrived to St Sofia of Konstantinople(Byzantium) and make it "land-Madiam", must we confound the christ. cross because this was their symbol?
The "Gammadion" (in greek lang.) is an ancient greek symbol and used in paint practice and like symbol. As practice painted it on amphores when they had consecutive presentations fm left to right or fm right to left. And like symbol always right-handed to mean by the right-shackles = "take your life in your hands" that is to say "to be in energy" and the different = "leave your life at fortune" like fatalism.
This symbol there is on the Acropole rock of Athens!!
I am writting all these for to be better knowed this symbol to anyone.
And now the question: What must to confounded the symbols or the misusage of them?
I think that if we continue to "scrounge" a party dressing..... i'm afraid we are in middle age!
The acceptacion or the rejection at your crisis!
Thanks .

 

[Feberin]

I think that Harry is an idiot and should NEVER have worn that costume. It's not funny and in my opinion the Nazi symbol is inapprorpriate for ANYBODY to wear and if one of my friends wore it to a party I would loose all respect for them. And I am 20 by the way.

However I don't think Harry really understands WHY everybody is so very upset about his costume. Therefore I think Harry should somehow be educated on the holocaust and WWII whether it is by visiting Auswitz or hearing a survior talk to him. Or simply learning from his grandmother about the war and how horrible it was. I don't understand why he is unwilling to do something to correct his mistake because his ignorance is getting so much attention.

 

[hillary_nugent]

Harry...Harry...Harry...this guy never thinks or something or if he does it is a bit delayed...

 

[ally_cooper]

Yeah, I believe he never think in the consequencies of his acts and/or his words...

 

[GrandDuchess]

From IOL:

Parliament may probe Prince Harry's aides

The British lower house of parliament is to open an inquiry next month into the advisers of Prince Harry after he caused outrage by turning up at a fancy dress party in a Nazi uniform, the Times reported on Monday.

The daily said the Public Accounts Committee of the House of Commons would probe how the aides of Prince Harry and his older brother Prince William were recruited.

"Where do they get these people who are advising Harry? They are either negligent, incompetent, politically suspect, or a combination of all three," committee member Ian Davidson of the ruling Labour party was quoted as saying.

 

[susan alicia]

Here is a nice little article that may give hope:


[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif] Diary [/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]'Harry is neither Nazi sympathiser nor Holocaust-denier. He is, quite simply, 20'[/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif] Cristina Odone
Sunday January 16, 2005
The Observer

[/font] [font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]In 1979, the 20-year-old son of a prominent member of the British establishment was photographed goose-stepping down the high street in Oxford. The Sun splashed with the picture, the youth was attacked widely for his 'Nazi' behaviour, his father was given a tough time. [/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Today, Jamie Sainsbury, whose father Tim had been one of Margaret Thatcher's ministers at the time of his 'march on Oxford', funds ground-breaking studies in family relations, countless environmental projects, and is the patron of some promising young artists. The indiscretion of his youth has been, if not forgotten, then certainly exonerated by his adult good works. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]It is a familiar pattern - boys whose boisterous behaviour gets them into trouble growing up into pillars of the community: think of St Augustine who stole pears from his neighbour's garden and then became a doctor of the church; or Winston Churchill whose boorish scrapes regularly embarrassed his MP father until he grew up into the statesman who led his nation in its darkest hour. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]History is littered with young asses who go on to make good. Prince Harry may be fond of the Marlboro Lights and the Jack Daniel's and hang out with ditzy girls, but he has hitherto shown no worrying Nazi sympathy. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]In fact, there is every reason to expect that he will grow into a Charles-like figure of clumsy well-meaning, a champion of the admirable Prince's Trust and a farmer of GM-free wheatgrass. A fine representative, in short, of tomorrow's establishment. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]That Harry chose to wear a swastika at a fancy-dress party speaks volumes about his immaturity and thoughtless ways. He certainly will have learnt at Eton what the swastika represented, but he simply couldn't work out for himself how offensive it would still be for a Jew, a German or a veteran to see it displayed on a young royal's sleeve. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]But then, when you're young, you are into fancy dress and outrageous behaviour rather than other people's painful legacy. For a 20-year-old undergraduate, 'history' has nothing living about it, and a Colonials and Natives fancy-dress theme just means a do where the girls wear skimpy outfits or see-through sarees. Harry couldn't recognise, in either the armband or the party theme, a potential minefield of excruciating errors of judgment. But then, neither would many other 20-year-olds. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The Bullingdon in Oxford is an all-boys club whose membership consists of a small group of popular, wealthy young bloods who hold a notoriously drunken 12-course dinner each year. After one particular dinner ended up with the eighteenth-century furniture in Worcester college dining hall smashed, a young tutor called on the Bullingdon lot to be sent down. But the wisest head in the college, the late Harry Pitt, immediately quashed the proposal. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Education, he said, should never include the humiliation of young idiots, for this simply fills them with resentment and stops their transformation into upstanding citizens. It might not have sounded like wisdom to the college staff who had to pick up the mess left behind by the Bullingdon boys, but many of those young idiots are now solid members of the community. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Prince Harry will no doubt do the same. He is neither a Nazi sympathiser nor a Holocaust denier. He is, quite simply, 20. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Older but not wiser
[/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The prince is not the only young person under attack. The tabloids overflow with stories of teenage binge drinking, teen mags with tales of the terrible spread of sexual disease or girls complaining about their bodies. Last week, the vice chancellor of Brunel urged other universities to start teaching their undergraduates morals, as plagiarism and cheating were, he believed, reaching epidemic proportions on campuses. Britons under 30, it is clear, are dissolute, depraved and devious. I wonder how they could have turned out so badly, when British adults are the number one consumers of alcohol in Europe; British women spend billions on cosmetic surgery and their magazines are stuffed with photos of anorexic models complaining that their 'bums look big in this'; programmes such as Desperate Housewives show that adulthood is boredom alleviated only by a romp with the gardener; and porn sites get millions of hits per day. As for plagiarism and cheating, there are journalists who have been outed as both and yet retain their posts. Grown-ups, it would seem, are not the picture of perfection they would like us to think. In fact, they are no better than their children. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The rich are indifferent
[/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Veroniks Borovik-Khilchevskaya runs a successful media empire in Moscow. Although she is not in good odour with the Kremlin, the sophisticated Russian counts some of the country's richest citizens among her inner circle. She told me this caused her a bit of a headache before Christmas, as she didn't know what presents to buy for those who have everything. But at Moscow's exclusive Vernissage shop, they had just the thing: a suitcase especially designed for slippers worn on private jets. At least her friends were properly enthusiastic. Here in London, the uTRFa rich can't get excited about anything. At a party to launch Panerai watches, toffs such as Lisa B and Anton Bilton, Rose Windsor and Francesca Versace were handed a key at the end of the party and told that anyone whose key opened a particular cabinet at the Panerai shop would win a watch. The prize was worth several thousand pounds and the group I was with lost no time in rushing to the west London store to try out our keys. But the moneyed guests didn't budge and, a month later, no one has bothered to claim their prize. The rich are not only different, they are indifferent. [/font]

reina,

thanks for posting this article, it was mentioned on breakfast with frost on the bbc on sunday as being excellent and I was wondering what she had said.

I wish people would not email in capital letters and enlarged ones. It is like shouting to each other and in my opinion, not necessary to make you point clear.

 

[lovy_bear]

I was talking in relation to the swastika controversy. I recognize that other grps suffer. But the swastika is a direct symbol of hatred towards Jews. And anti-semitism has gone up by the growing no. of neo-Nazi grps and by some muslims in various countries. in fact neo-nazi grps praise the terrorists who particpated in 9/11. but anyway I don't want to get off topic

Yes I realize that (that you were talking about the swastika ordeal), but I just wanted to point out that individuals within other backgrounds have and are still suffering as well. I wasn't trying to accuse of you of not caring about other ethnic/religious groups (sorry if it came out that way), but since you specifically singled out anti-Semitism (past and present), I wanted to go a little further and speak about the suffering of other groups as well. The Holocaust was most definitely a truly horrid event that occurred within history, but unfortunately some equally tragic events throughout time haven't been spoken about as much within the media: whether in books, songs, tv shows and/or films.

The swastika was and sometimes still is "used" as a symbol of hatred towards Jews (since it originally connoted a different meaning before being adopted by the Nazis), but it was/is also used as a symbol of intolerance towards many other groups as well including: gypsies, homosexuals, people of "colour" etc. Here's a good website to read up some more on the prior info. It speaks of the multitude of groups who were imprisoned/tortured/executed during the Holocaust:

http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/fivmil.htm

Regarding the idea of some Muslims creating anti-Semitic acts (as individuals within all different religions tend to do, towards some people within different sects of the same religion and/or a completely different one, through discrimination/vandalism/terrorism: i.e. the India Air bombings created by a so-called Sikh against India's Hindu majority, so-called Christian "pro life" activists who blew up abortion clinics killing people inside and a couple of years ago two so-called Jewish men tried to blow up a mosque as well (both incidents taking place in the US), some of them must be, although I think that the proper term for them is so-called Muslims or Islamic extremists rather than Muslims. As for the alleged idea that all neo-Nazi groups praise the 911 highjackers, I've heard that its more of a rumour than a fact. Even if some of the groups did, I doubt that "all of them" praised them. This rumour has yet to be proven. Where exactly did you get this info from (I've read about this idea on a few websites, but off course not everything online is 100% or even partially correct at all)? I'd prefer to stay on topic as well, but I really needed to say everything that I've written, because i find it really important (just this once)

 

[Elspeth]

I've just retitled this thread "Prince Harry's Nazi Costume," and it'll stay open for as long as people have constructive things to say on this subject. The new regular Harry thread is here:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4731

Please don't post any stuff about the Nazi costume over there; this thread will be available for as long as needed for this conversation to continue.

 

[Joe Public]

OK TELL ME WHAT MAKES IT RIGHT FOR HARRY TO GO ROUND FIGHTING PEOPLE, WHEN THEY ARE DOING A JOB ?

HARRY WILL NEVER HAVE TO DO A DAYS WORK IN HIS LIFE !
ANY WORK HE DOES WILL BE BECAUSE HE WANT TO NOT BECAUSE THE BANK ARE GOING TO REPOSSES HIS HOUSE !

 

[james]

At the end of the day there is too much religious and social discrimination alive and well in Britain today which must be addressed. I'm sure that many people who post to this thread are unaware of the institutionalised bigotry in the county where Prince Harry's "Native and Colonials" party took place. For example, did you know that in Britain not only can the Monarch not marry a Roman Catholic but no Roman Catholic can become Prime Minister?. Any Prime Minister who converted to Catholicism would HAVE to resign his/her office. Did you also know that the Royal Household ,which compromises THOUSANDS of employees, from maids to Private secretary's, is made up of LESS than 1% of "non-whites" and those that are not white occupy the lowest rungs of the Household ladder. One goverment minister, who was of African-British origin, attended a State Banquet in 2001 and said, " I was shocked when I entered Buckingham Palace. Within seconds I moved from the streets of London, which was full of black, Chinese, Hindu people etc and numerous facets of the Christian faith into a world completely white and Church of England. It frightened me that this was the domain of our Head of State and yet her court was totally out of step with the people she represented". Is it any wonder that Prince Harry and his upper class cronies think it is acceptable to blacken their faces for a laugh and in Harry's own case, stress to his father that his girlfriend "Isn't black or anything" when such attitudes are ingrained in his social strata. People say the Queen and Prince Philip are shocked at the swastika incident but Philip himself (in his sixties) reffered to people from the Far East as "slity-eyed". Is it any wonder that Harry thought wearing the swastika was no big deal?

 

[Reina]

Yes I realize that (that you were talking about the swastika ordeal), but I just wanted to point out that individuals within other backgrounds have and are still suffering as well. I wasn't trying to accuse of you of not caring about other ethnic/religious groups (sorry if it came out that way), but since you specifically singled out anti-Semitism (past and present), I wanted to go a little further and speak about the suffering of other groups as well. The Holocaust was most definitely a truly horrid event that occurred within history, but unfortunately some equally tragic events throughout time haven't been spoken about as much within the media: whether in books, songs, tv shows and/or films.

The swastika was and sometimes still is "used" as a symbol of hatred towards Jews (since it originally connoted a different meaning before being adopted by the Nazis), but it was/is also used as a symbol of intolerance towards many other groups as well including: gypsies, homosexuals, people of "colour" etc. Here's a good website to read up some more on the prior info. It speaks of the multitude of groups who were imprisoned/tortured/executed during the Holocaust:

http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/fivmil.htm

Regarding the idea of some Muslims creating anti-Semitic acts (as individuals within all different religions tend to do, towards some people within different sects of the same religion and/or a completely different one, through discrimination/vandalism/terrorism: i.e. the India Air bombings created by a so-called Sikh against India's Hindu majority, so-called Christian "pro life" activists who blew up abortion clinics killing people inside and a couple of years ago two so-called Jewish men tried to blow up a mosque as well (both incidents taking place in the US), some of them must be, although I think that the proper term for them is so-called Muslims or Islamic extremists rather than Muslims. As for the alleged idea that all neo-Nazi groups praise the 911 highjackers, I've heard that its more of a rumour than a fact. Even if some of the groups did, I doubt that "all of them" praised them. This rumour has yet to be proven. Where exactly did you get this info from (I've read about this idea on a few websites, but off course not everything online is 100% or even partially correct at all)? I'd prefer to stay on topic as well, but I really needed to say everything that I've written, because i find it really important (just this once)

I agree that I should not have said some Muslims. I actually forgot the correct word to use that is why I said some. But I guess the correct word would be Islamist or radical Muslims, but I prefer Islamist b/c that is directly different from Islamic. ALso I am aware that other groups of ppl were victims of the Holocaust like the gypies, romas, homosexuals. But most of the 6 million ppl were Jews, so I guess you could see why I didi not mention the otehr groups.

Anyway JAmes you are right. I have often wondered if many ppl (not just the RF) practice what they preach. I am having a hard time believing many who say all the politically correct things. I do not believe in being politically correct. I wish thatit were ok for all ppl to express how they really feel. that way we could address issues better.

 

[james]

YEAH Reina! I think we are starting to connect! I didn't mean to be rude to you in other posts it's just that I don't agree that what Harry did was in the be all and end all in being offensive. Can I also say that I found it laughable when I saw the owner of the shop where he hired his costume holding up an SS uniform and scolding him for almost hiring it. I mean SHE hires out these Nazi uniforms so where is she coming from?

 

[Reina]

Well the only positive thing I see coming out of this is that we start talking about these issues. They are truly serious.

 

[sommone]

At the end of the day there is too much religious and social discrimination alive and well in Britain today which must be addressed. I'm sure that many people who post to this thread are unaware of the institutionalised bigotry in the county where Prince Harry's "Native and Colonials" party took place. For example, did you know that in Britain not only can the Monarch not marry a Roman Catholic but no Roman Catholic can become Prime Minister?. Any Prime Minister who converted to Catholicism would HAVE to resign his/her office. Did you also know that the Royal Household ,which compromises THOUSANDS of employees, from maids to Private secretary's, is made up of LESS than 1% of "non-whites" and those that are not white occupy the lowest rungs of the Household ladder. One goverment minister, who was of African-British origin, attended a State Banquet in 2001 and said, " I was shocked when I entered Buckingham Palace. Within seconds I moved from the streets of London, which was full of black, Chinese, Hindu people etc and numerous facets of the Christian faith into a world completely white and Church of England. It frightened me that this was the domain of our Head of State and yet her court was totally out of step with the people she represented". Is it any wonder that Prince Harry and his upper class cronies think it is acceptable to blacken their faces for a laugh and in Harry's own case, stress to his father that his girlfriend "Isn't black or anything" when such attitudes are ingrained in his social strata.

I applaud you James... I was thinking the same thing yesterday, but didn't post it, about how England is as multiculturally diverse as America and Canada, yet the government, nor the royal court reflects this diversity. It's funny how some people believe that racism doesn't exist anymore, or to some it hardly exists, but they tend to miss the subtle form that it takes on like institutional racism. I must say that I never expected to hear or see this kind of outright disrespect for other people by a member of the British Royal Family, wait, I forgot about everytime Prince Philip opens his mouth..I just wasn't expecting it from the youngest generation of the royal family, but here it is for all to see.

 

[Reina]

And you know what else gets me. Is how all those Euros and other ppl who don't know what the heck they are talking about say that Americans are close-minded! They don't realixe how much diversityu is such a huge goal in this country: in our schools, businesses, etc. Oh ye hypocrites! Now of course not everyone is like that, but we knwo what a big fuss Europe and others have made.

 

[Elspeth]

And you know what else gets me. Is how all those Euros and other ppl who don't know what the heck they are talking about say that Americans are close-minded! They don't realixe how much diversityu is such a huge goal in this country: in our schools, businesses, etc. Oh ye hypocrites! Now of course not everyone is like that, but we knwo what a big fuss Europe and others have made.

Yes, but the US government also doesn't really reflect the diversity in the country; it's made up very disproportionately of rich white men, and the idea of a female president is more theoretical than a real possibility at this point. In places like California, where there are a lot of central American and Asian immigrants, diversity is pretty much taken for granted, but I've travelled across the USA a couple of times and been struck by the insular attitudes in some parts of the country. I think it's really a case that most of the industrialised west is less tolerant of diversity than it likes to think, especially higher up the socioeconomic ladder.

This is apparently one area where Prince Charles has improved things a bit relative to some of the older royals - having more of his advisors (as opposed to just his housemaids) come from backgrounds different from his own. I don't think he's made huge strides in that direction or anything, but it sounds as though he's done some movement in the direction of hiring people on merit rather than because they have the "right" background.

 

[sommone]

Yes, but the US government also doesn't really reflect the diversity in the country; it's made up very disproportionately of rich white men, and the idea of a female president is more theoretical than a real possibility.

I realize that America still has a way to go on issues of diversity, but so does England. Especially when you have it's royals who suppose to represent all of their people, yet instead William and Harry are going around attending parties with racist themes, and dressing in costumes that evoked fear and terror (Harry) for a group of it's own citizens. You're right, the US government is disproportionate....I don't know the exact numbers, but at least on the governmental level, people of color and women are holding government postions....can the same be said about England's government? I mean how diversified is England's government? If I'm wrong, then by all means correct me.
.

 

[Joe Public]

Sommone very good point, and your right at the rate we let people into our country it will be 1 white per 10 coloured, at the moment its about 2 white to 1 coloured, depending which part, cos over here there are no go areas for whites, its a turn around of years gone by, yet no top jobs as you say !

but just as well cos when they do they might ship us all off to Africa, 1 way ticket

 

[Alexandria]

Please keep the subject of this discussion royal related. America's immigration policy has no baring on this discussion.

Thank you.

Alexandria,
Royal Forums Administrator

 

[Elspeth]

I realize that America stil has a way to go on issues of diversity, but so does England. Especially when you have it's royals who suppose to represent all of their people, instead they are going around attending parties with racist themes, and dressing in costumes that evoked fear and terror for a group of it's own citizens.

Well, so far it's only been one royal going to the party and dressing in a Nazi costume; it isn't as though they're all doing it! As far as parties with tasteless themes, that's sort of what you get when people have more money than sense, and there'll always be some of those around.

 

[Reina]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, Sans]Harry Story Shines Light On Royals[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, Sans]NEW YORK, Jan. 18, 2005[/font]


[font=Arial, Helvetica, Sans]Prince Harry going to a costume party in a Nazi uniform still has people up in arms around the world. In England, a poll found three out of four Brits felt it was wrong. Leaders of the European Union are considering a ban on all Nazi symbols.

But, says Vanity Fair magazine and royals watcher Victoria Mather, the story may run far deeper.

"This story implicates the whole of the aristocracy –- the Harry crowd," Mather told The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith, "because they do think racism and bigotry are funny. There were people at that party in black face."

What's more, Mather says, the incident doesn't help the royals' standing in Britain, in general: "A story like this encourages republicanism, rampant republicanism."

That said, Mather points out you also have to "look at it another way. On both sides of the Atlantic, on Broadway and London's West End, audiences are crowding into 'The Producers' to see 'Springtime for Hitler.' "

Mather notes that the story continues to resonate in Britain. "It is still absolutely huge. It's the big, post-tsunami story. The tsunami story is running out. Now you've got this gift of a story, which is this stupid young prince making this terrible, public gaffe. Why wouldn't anyone tell him how thick he was being?"

Harry needs guidance, and gets precious little, Mather asserts: "There's no one. He has only been seen by his father three days in the last six weeks. There was nobody at home. What's significant is he went to the party with his brother. But, he did not put on the swastika armband, which was homemade, until he got to the party, when he went into lavatory and then put it on, thinking it was a huge joke.

"Now, the implications of this -- it may seem a completely disproportionate response, because it was a private party, and it was very unattractive that some snitch would take the picture and sell it. But how thick are you not to know that every single kid at that age has a phone with a camera in it?

"But this guy (Harry) is stupid. You have to be very stupid to graduate from Eaton with the worst results in the whole school: 'A' levels in something like needlework and art."

It gets worse, Mather says. "(Harry's) girlfriend is a problem, too, because her father is associated with the despot Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe. This is not a great girlfriend."

Mather expressed doubt Harry would wind up in military school, as has been long planned, because he continues to cite knee problems. But they don't stop him from participating in scuba diving, skiing and polo, she observes.

There weren't any kind words from Mather about Harry's father, Prince Charles: "He's out for the holiday in Scotland with Mrs. Parker Bowles. He didn't even come home to spank this young man and say, 'Brace up, mate.' He cares, but he doesn't know what to do.

"Talking about the advisers, the advisers don't know what to do, because there is no advice, there is no parenting and there is no mother (the late Princess Diana), and this boy is just not the shiniest jewel in the crown."

The Harry incident "has probably put back" any possible marriage of Charles and Camilla Parker-Bowles.

Of Charles, Mather says, "You've already been failure once as a husband. You're a failure as a father. You're just a failure, aren't you?"[/font]


[font=Arial, Helvetica, Sans]©MMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.[/font]

 

[Reina]

I knew it was time for these boys to start doing royal duties.



Harry may get larger royal role

[ TUESDAY, JANUARY 18, 2005 11:15:29 PM ]

http://loyaltyprogram.indiatimes.com/articleshow/957967.cms Buckingham Palace is pressing Prince Harry to shoulder the duties of a working royal in an effort to curb his wayward behaviour. The palace initiative, which will also affect Prince William, ends the policy of shielding the princes from public exposure, which was introduced after the death of their mother, Diana, Princess of Wales, in 1997.

One source said: "Working hard helped remake the reputation of the Princess Royal and of the Earl of Wessex. It will also be the answer for Harry."

Harry's ill-judged decision a week ago to don a Nazi uniform for a fancy dress party occurred in one of the many rest periods during his current double "gap year".

By contrast, the Prince of Wales was regularly undertaking royal engagements by the age of 20. One palace source said William risked becoming embroiled in embarrassing incidents if he had no formal plan after graduation this summer. He is expected to begin a low-key programme of official engagements directly after completing his education at St Andrews University, Scotland.

An adviser said: "The boys are now grown men and the arrangements put in place when they lost their mother no longer make sense." This weekend there were the first signs that courtiers at Clarence House — as well as the palace — believed both princes should at last be eased into formal royal engagements. Neither is expected to claim payments from the civil list.

The Sunday Times, London




I have been saying this all along. They need to start royal duties now! Screw if they want to live life outside of it. They need (esp. William) to accept their destiny and do their duties or just give up royal life altogether. Most people their age are in school or have jobs after school. This is their job and duty so they need to accept it now!

 

[sommone]

Well, so far it's only been one royal going to the party and dressing in a Nazi costume; it isn't as though they're all doing it! As far as parties with tasteless themes, that's sort of what you get when people have more money than sense, and there'll always be some of those around.

Elspeth, didn't William attend this party as well? Maybe he didn't offend anyone by dressing up as a Nazi, but his attendance at the party speaks volumes to me. That's what I meant when I said royals...not the whole family. Yes, I agree with you concerning more money than sense...

 

[Elspeth]

Yes, William did go to the party too; I just meant that there was only one of them who was bone-headed enough to go there and to be dressed as a Nazi. I suppose when you spend so much of your life mixing with the "idle rich," you tend to lose perspective on it. The interesting thing is that, according to reports at the time (although I don't know how accurate they were), both boys really disliked the ostentatious jet-set lifestyle of the al Fayeds and were happier mucking around in the country at Sandringham and Balmoral. Apparently things change a bit when you get older.

Funny thing is, if it hadn't been for the furore over Harry's costume, we'd probably have mostly heard of the party as a result of half the female readership here swooning over the thought of William in a leopard outfit!

 

[Elspeth]

Thanks for the update, Reina!

 

[queenanne]

At the risk of launching many attacks on myself, I have to ask: does anyone else think the media is making waaaayyyy too big a deal out of all of this? Yeah, he chose a stupid costume and he probably should have chosen something else, but it was just a costume. Also, he's already apologized. The media should just drop it. What right does the media have to follow him to a private party and then tear him apart for his bad choices, anyways? He's still young, and last time I checked, we all make mistakes when we're young. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way anti-semitic; I'm no Neo-nazi, I just don't think its that big a deal. No offense meant towards anyone (except the paparazzi ). Also, would anyone else love to see that that girl is out of his life? She seems to talk to the press way too much and doesn't seem to be a good influence. He needs a strong, smart, loving woman to help him grow up.

 

[elenaris]

See article in French Newspapar " le Monde"

"The Chins", la bande hédoniste des princes Harry et William
LE MONDE | 17.01.05 | 14h03
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"The Chins" (les mentons) : c'est le nom de totem de la bande entourant Harry et William, les deux fils du prince Charles. Il s'agit d'une allusion à cette manière particulière dont la noblesse et la grande bourgeoisie ancienne du royaume jouent de la partie saillante du visage.OAS_AD('Middle'); Cette expression est la signature de l'une des tribus les plus discrètes de la jeunesse anglaise. La photo sur laquelle on voit le prince Harry déguisé en officier nazi, brassard frappé d'une swastika au bras gauche, a projeté à la "une" de l'actualité cette caste de teenagers, avec ses codes et ses signes de reconnaissance.

Ils s'appellent Luke et Mark Tomlinson, Harry Legge-Bourke, Harry Meade, Davina Duckworth-Chad ou Natalie Hicks-Lobbeke. Des noms à rallonge, liés depuis des lustres à la famille royale. Les garçons sont tous passés par les collèges privés avant de rejoindre le Cirencester Agricultural College, célèbre école spécialisée dans la formation des gestionnaires de domaines, ou l'académie militaire de Sandhurst. Les filles, sorties obligatoirement du Cheltenham Ladies College ou de Roedean, œuvrent ensuite dans les associations de préservation du patrimoine ou au comptoir des salles de vente en attendant de faire un bon mariage.

Beuveries et fêtes costumées (équivalent des rallyes mondains à la française) rythment les week-ends de ce groupe basé autour de Highgrove, la résidence de campagne du prince Charles, à deux heures de voiture de Londres. A la lager de prédilection des jeunes de leur âge, ils préfèrent la vodka-cranberry ou la tequila sunrise pour se saouler. Tous aiment la vie au grand air. Ils ont hérité de leurs parents le goût du sport, en particulier de la chasse à courre et du polo.

"UNE IMPRESSION D'IMPUNITÉ"

Ce petit monde hait Tony Blair, dont le projet d'interdiction de la chasse à courre menace, estiment-ils, leur manière de vivre. Harry Meade, qui avait organisé la fête costumée par laquelle le scandale est arrivé, avait d'ailleurs été arrêté pour avoir interrompu le discours du premier ministre lors du dernier congrès du New Labour. Pour autant, le leader conservateur, Michael Howard, ne trouve pas grâce à leurs yeux : citadin, avocat et juif.

Ce cercle de privilégiés a une conscience très aiguë de son statut social. Il se ferme comme une huître devant l'"argent nouveau" issu de l'establishment des médias, de la City ou de l'entreprise. "Il s'agit d'un monde où l'on se connaît depuis le berceau, où la mentalité est immature voire infantile, coupée de la réalité. Ses membres ont un fort sentiment de supériorité qui leur donne une impression d'impunité, ce qui les rend parfois très impolis", explique un organisateur d'événements pour la haute société.

Leur univers ne comprend ni Noirs ni Asiatiques. Reste que ces jeunes gens sont fascinés par l'Afrique, où ils passent souvent leurs vacances à chasser le gros gibier. Ainsi, pour célébrer ses 21 ans, le prince William avait organisé une party costumée sur le thème "Out of Africa". Celui de la soirée à scandale de Meade était "Natives and Colonials" (indigènes et colonisateurs). A cette occasion, certains invités s'étaient déguisés en zoulous en se recouvrant le visage de cirage !

Jasmine Alibaï-Brown, journaliste d'origine pakistanaise de l'Independent, s'indigne du manque de sensibilité à l'égard de la société multiculturelle britannique : "Comment le deuxième et le troisième dans l'ordre de succession au trône peuvent-ils participer à une fête aux connotations ouvertement racistes ?" De son côté, le Times annonce, dans son édition du 17 janvier, que la Chambre des communes se prépare à ouvrir une enquête sur l'entourage et les conseillers du prince Harry.

Marc Roche

 

[Reina]

At the risk of launching many attacks on myself, I have to ask: does anyone else think the media is making waaaayyyy too big a deal out of all of this? Yeah, he chose a stupid costume and he probably should have chosen something else, but it was just a costume. Also, he's already apologized. The media should just drop it. What right does the media have to follow him to a private party and then tear him apart for his bad choices, anyways? He's still young, and last time I checked, we all make mistakes when we're young. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way anti-semitic; I'm no Neo-nazi, I just don't think its that big a deal. No offense meant towards anyone (except the paparazzi ). Also, would anyone else love to see that that girl is out of his life? She seems to talk to the press way too much and doesn't seem to be a good influence. He needs a strong, smart, loving woman to help him grow up.

Don't worry I won't attack
But I think the thing is is that maybe the media is trying to focus on the big picture that has come from this. Like the fact that maybe certain ppl think racism is funny and that it is ok for certain groups to be made fun of.

Also...for some reason I can't read that last article. (even though I took a year of french)

 

[Dennism]

"The Chins", la bande hédoniste des princes Harry et William
LE MONDE | 17.01.05 | 14h03
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Can you provide a summary or a translation of this good article?

 

[sommone]

At the risk of launching many attacks on myself, I have to ask: does anyone else think the media is making waaaayyyy too big a deal out of all of this? Yeah, he chose a stupid costume and he probably should have chosen something else, but it was just a costume. Also, he's already apologized. The media should just drop it. What right does the media have to follow him to a private party and then tear him apart for his bad choices, anyways? He's still young, and last time I checked, we all make
mistakes when we're young. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way anti-semitic; I'm no Neo-nazi, I just don't think its that big a deal. No offense meant towards anyone (except the paparazzi ). Also, would anyone else love to see that that girl is out of his life? She seems to talk to the press way too much and doesn't seem to be a good influence. He needs a strong, smart, loving woman to help him grow up.

I'm not into attacking either, but I'm going to have to agree with Reina. True, the media had no right to follow William and Harry to a private party, but my thing is that because the press is constantly hounding them all of the time, they should have known it would be found out. I mean the fact that Harry thought wearing a Nazi costume was going to be amusing makes me a question many things about where his head was. Also, what bothered me as well is that they are princes, one someday is going to be king, and they are attending a party that was flaunting racism. Future kings don't attend parties that jest about bigotry. There were people there wearing black paint on their faces, and I'm sure they thought it was funny. Why on earth would they (William and Harry) even want to attend a party like that? William especially..It makes me question his ability to someday be king. Like someone said, these people don't have any respect for other people apparantly, and they think bigotry and racism is a joke. But I'm sure if they were to walk in the foot steps of some of the same people that they mocked, they'd have a change in attitude. So, it's all in how you choose to look at the situation.