Prince Harry and Meghan Markle: Church Service, Carriage Procession - May 19, 2018

[Nico]

The fact that one could imagine for one second that Harry (and William back in 2011) could pay tribute to the memory of their late mother in such an ostentatious, if not cheesy, manner like an empty seat (in front and near the Queen with that) is a bit beyond me.
I mean the Boys are FAR more subtle than that. The memory of their beloved mother is in their heart and their soul, and again they don't need to show to the entire world that, indeed, she's not forgotten. And, if so, it's always done with elegance and yes sublety : a jewel for the bride, a favourite flower or a special hymn. Sometimes it seems that some people are expecting some kind of Diana hologram to appear , just to reassure themselves that, indeed, she was with her sons during that special moment.

In fact with this Wedding Harry wanted to show to the entire world that, at last, the BRF is at PEACE, that the love for his late mother is not incompatible with the love for his father and the respect for his step mother. I mean the picture on the step of St George Chapel was quite telling : Charles Camilla, Doria, the Cambridges and Lady Jane Fellowes TOGETHER.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2...0000578-5747571-image-m-398_1526736257000.jpg

At one point, quite extroardinary, Camilla even spoke to Lady Jane, what a symbol !

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Camilla+Parker+Bowles+Prince+Harry+Marries+lekRJirgH4Gl.jpg

That's the FAMILY Harry and Meghan love and respect. That's the BRF now. And despite what some posters, columnists, Richard Kay or Andrew Morton have to say , this family is obviously a happy one.

 

[Curbside]

Another lovely article about what this wedding meant to so many:

Viewpoint: The Royal wedding was a landmark for African Americans - BBC News

This is awesome. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Rudolph]

Another lovely article about what this wedding meant to so many:

Viewpoint: The Royal wedding was a landmark for African Americans - BBC News

I wonder if many of the African American commentators in the news have ever actually been to Britain. Do they know about the story of blacks in Britain vs America. It’s two entirely different histories.

About 20 years ago Oprah was in Toronto for something and she later remarked on her show she didn’t know black people lived in Canada until she seen them in person. Really? Oprah obviously never heard of the Underground Railroad.

Anyway it’s slightly odd to me Americans are more into the racial aspect than Brits. Although Britain has always been more progressive than America.

 

[Osipi]

This is awesome. Thanks for sharing.

I totally agree that article was well worth a read but I do want to point out something else that may have been overlooked and I'd really like to bring it to attention. Black ministers are not foreign to the British Royal Family at all. The Revered Rose Hudson-Wilkin has served as chaplain to the Queen and has made a big impact on the Church of England and she talks about it in this wonderful article.

I just don't want the concept believed that it was only the "American" contingent to this wedding that is portrayed as embracing the African American clerical influence in Harry and Meghan's wedding.

https://www.premierchristianity.com...on-Wilkin-My-battle-against-racism-and-sexism

 

[Rudolph]

I’ll also point out the second highest ranking Bishop in the CoE, The Archbishop of York, is black and was born in Uganda.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Speaking as an African American I can speak from my perspective. I understand the black experience is different in the UK than in the US. For balance, a black person living in England to give his/her view. As for Meghan, it's a similar feeling I had for Barack Obama. I never thought I would see in my lifetime an African American elected twice as President of the United States. I never thought a woman of color would marry into the British Royal Family. I always thought Wallis Simpson messed it up for any American woman to become a princess of Britain. Meghan now has HRH in front of her name. I am going to be fascinated how this new and first time Duchess of Sussex will use her platform along with Harry, her prince and duke.

 

[assia]

The fact that one could imagine for one second that Harry (and William back in 2011) could pay tribute to the memory of their late mother in such an ostentatious, if not cheesy, manner like an empty seat (in front and near the Queen with that) is a bit beyond me.
I mean the Boys are FAR more subtle than that. The memory of their beloved mother is in their heart and their soul, and again they don't need to show to the entire world that, indeed, she's not forgotten. And, if so, it's always done with elegance and yes subtility : a jewel for the bride, a favourite flower or a special hymn. Sometimes it seems that some people are expecting some kind of Diana hologram to appear , just to reassure themselves that, indeed, she was with her sons during that special moment.

In fact with this Wedding Harry wanted to show to the entire world that, at last, the BRF is at PEACE, that the love for his late mother is not incompatible with the love for his father and the respect for his step mother. I mean the picture on the step of St George Chapel was quite telling : Charles Camilla, Doria, the Cambridges and Lady Jane Fellowes TOGETHER.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2...0000578-5747571-image-m-398_1526736257000.jpg

At one point, quite extroardinary, Camilla even spoke to Lady Jane, what a symbol !

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Camilla+Parker+Bowles+Prince+Harry+Marries+lekRJirgH4Gl.jpg

That's the FAMILY Harry and Meghan love and respect. That's the BRF now. And despite what some posters, columnists, Richard Kay or Andrew Morton have to say , this family is obviously a happy one.

Absolutely lovely picture of the mother of the bride and the father of the bridegroom !

 

[FashionMaven]

Speaking as an African American I can speak from my perspective. I understand the black experience is different in the UK than in the US. For balance, a black person living in England to give his/her view. As for Meghan, it's a similar feeling I had for Barack Obama. I never thought I would see in my lifetime an African American elected twice as President of the United States. I never thought a woman of color would marry into the British Royal Family. I always thought Wallis Simpson messed it up for any American woman to become a princess of Britain. Meghan now has HRH in front of her name. I am going to be fascinated how this new and first time Duchess of Sussex will use her platform along with Harry, her prince and duke.

Goodness I couldn't have said this better myself. I felt everything you did and still do. I'm still pinching myself. I remember after Kate's wedding there was this palpable feeling that now a Commoner could become Queen of England (like another one could do this now that Kate's done it - though decades from now). But I never felt included in that as an American AND definitely as a black woman. But now? Now I do.

When Princess Angela of Lichtenstein married into that European Royal Family - I felt a similar way but not as much because it's such a low key monarchy. It also wasn't publicized much at all and she still lives in relative obscurity.

But this? This is just beyond and for me it's Obama level.

 

[Countessmeout]

I felt for Doria too.. surely Meghan had a friend or relative who could have sat beside her and been there to support her? It all seemed to be left to P Charles to try and look after her a bit...

Benita was sitting right next to her. Jessica was infront of her. All of Meghan's friends were around Doria.

The only time that Charles had to be the support for Doria was when only the Family was involved. Like when they were on the steps, and even the non family bridesmaids/page boys were not outside watching the carriage.

I'm glad to know that there were some friends sitting there who come from that part of Meghan's life. IMO it was a bit sad that there were no representatives from the Markle/Ragland families or her childhood years.

Its not that odd, especially at her age. I am a few months older. If I got married tomorrow, my oldest friend would be from my college days. We have to remember she isn't fresh from college, a friend from her college days she has known for more then a decade. At least one she met her freshman year meaning she has known them for almost 19 years. That is a LONG friendship. That's the same as say Kate inviting a friend that she had known since she was 10 years old. Even her suits co-workers she has known for seven years.

 

[Missy-]

...I mean the picture on the step of St George Chapel was quite telling : Charles Camilla, Doria, the Cambridges and Lady Jane Fellowes TOGETHER.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2...0000578-5747571-image-m-398_1526736257000.jpg

At one point, quite extroardinary, Camilla even spoke to Lady Jane, what a symbol !

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Camilla+Parker+Bowles+Prince+Harry+Marries+lekRJirgH4Gl.jpg

That's the FAMILY Harry and Meghan love and respect. That's the BRF now. And despite what some posters, columnists, Richard Kay or Andrew Morton have to say , this family is obviously a happy one.

What about her sister Sarah and her brother Charles, I don't see them in these photos, does that mean that they're not part of the 'happy family'?

Lady Jane's husband is Robert Fellowes, the former private secretary to HM, of course they are making nice with Camilla. They always have played by the graymen's rules (they are the graymen), to the point where Diana sometimes felt very uncomfortable with it. So I'm not at all surprised or impressed that the Fellowes' are pictured together with the RF and I don't attach any significance to it.

 

[Gawin]

I wonder if many of the African American commentators in the news have ever actually been to Britain. Do they know about the story of blacks in Britain vs America. It’s two entirely different histories.

About 20 years ago Oprah was in Toronto for something and she later remarked on her show she didn’t know black people lived in Canada until she seen them in person. Really? Oprah obviously never heard of the Underground Railroad.

Anyway it’s slightly odd to me Americans are more into the racial aspect than Brits. Although Britain has always been more progressive than America.

I suspect one of the reasons why Americans are more into the racial aspect is the fact that when slavery was abolished in the British Empire, many British slaveholders were able to return to Britain, close the door, and put it behind them. But in the United States slaveholders continued to live side-by-side with their former slaves. As a result, the racism, prejudice, and discrimination continued and steps were taken to "keep blacks in their place." And its an issue we are still dealing with today.

I think Britain, on the other hand, has had more of an issue with class.

 

[Nico]

What about her sister Sarah and her brother Charles, I don't see them in these photos, does that mean that they're not part of the 'happy family'?

Lady Jane's husband is Robert Fellowes, the former private secretary to HM, of course they are making nice with Camilla. They always have played by the graymen's rules (they are the graymen), to the point where Diana sometimes felt very uncomfortable with it. So I'm not at all surprised or impressed that the Fellowes' are pictured together with the RF and I don't attach any significance to it.

Lord Spencer was not on the steps either, so draw the conclusions yourself.
Funny how the cynicism and the old stories are coming back fast, even when the obvious is just in front of your eyes...
That's your privilege.

 

[Countessmeout]

Lord Spencer was not on the steps either, so draw the conclusions yourself.
Funny how the cynicism and the old stories are coming back fast, even when the obvious is just in front of your eyes...
That's your privilege.

Well either were Anne, Edward and Andrew on the steps of the church. Only the parents, Harry's brother and his family, and Jane were on the steps. Charles Spencer was not the only Uncle who wasn't out there. Jane seems to have only been out there as she was involved in the wedding.

 

[suztav]

I saw a photo where the Queen and the extended royal family were waving at the passing carriage. I think it was at another entrance to the church— the one that was used by Charles and Camilla and Peter and Autumn on heir respective wedding days.

 

[Nico]

Well either were Anne, Edward and Andrew on the steps of the church. Only the parents, Harry's brother and his family, and Jane were on the steps. Charles Spencer was not the only Uncle who wasn't out there. Jane seems to have only been out there as she was involved in the wedding.

Precisely, the ones Harry chose to be involved in the Wedding. It could have been an exit of the entire family (like for Peter and Autumn).
The picture on the steps meant something special ...

 

[Mbruno]

I suspect one of the reasons why Americans are more into the racial aspect is the fact that when slavery was abolished in the British Empire, many British slaveholders were able to return to Britain, close the door, and put it behind them. But in the United States slaveholders continued to live side-by-side with their former slaves. As a result, the racism, prejudice, and discrimination continued and steps were taken to "keep blacks in their place." And its an issue we are still dealing with today.

I think Britain, on the other hand, has had more of an issue with class.

I don't want to get into this discussion because the moderators normally shut down the forum whenever British/American history is discussed, but, in a very short and simplistic way, the British were among the early leaders in the transatlantic slave trade (to be fair, in partnership with several African states/kingdoms/chiefdoms themselves). Then, the British government became on the contrary the main force behind the abolition and repression of slave trade worldwide, and did abolish slavery altogether in all their colonies long before the United States. In the British isles properly, slavery was already in practice unlawful by the late 18th century, but slavery continued to exist e.g. in the British Caribbean and the British Cape Colony until the 1830's.



"Racial" relations have only become a visble social issue in Britain in the past decades really, with recent immigration from Commonwealth countries and the relative increase in the "non-White" population in the UK. The perspective and circumstances are, however, very different from the US where slavery and, subsequently, segregation were major aspects of American society, especially in a certain part of the country.

 

[Madame Verseau]

For Doria to be the only blood relatives at the wedding, it may have just have been the plan for only her mom and dad to come. There is precedent, only Sophie's mom and dad came to her wedding to Prince Edward

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_of_Prince_Edward,_Earl_of_Wessex,_and_Sophie_Rhys-Jones

Unfortunately the media didn't bother to pick up this detail. The Markle shenanigans led up Tom Sr not coming, along with his surgery. It was too late to fly out a Ragland at the last minute to take the spot, and KP and BP were not going to reach out to the uninvited Markles that were in England and invite them. I believe Doria got support from Meghan's friends.

 

[Mbruno]

Well either were Anne, Edward and Andrew on the steps of the church. Only the parents, Harry's brother and his family, and Jane were on the steps. Charles Spencer was not the only Uncle who wasn't out there. Jane seems to have only been out there as she was involved in the wedding.

I believe the Queen and other members of the RF simply left the chapel later than the party on the steps, but they seem to have eventually caught up to see off the newly weds. As you can see on the video, they used a different exit apparently.

 

[MichelleQ2]

I believe the Queen and other members of the RF simply left the chapel later than the party on the steps, but they seem to have eventually caught up to see off the newly weds. As you can see on the video, they used a different exit apparently.

I think the Queen would have exited via the west steps to see off the carriage were it not for Philips surgery. I think they were being very sensitive to the steps he could take. And if the Queen & Philip we’re not going down the aisle for the exit, it didn’t make sense for the rest of the family. Just easier to have them exit via the Galilee porch where thy had entered and wave as the carriage went past.

 

[Princess B]

I found it odd that the Spencer’s were seated very far away. And some celebs like Oprah, Serena Williams, the clooneys had better seats.
At Williams wedding, they had prominent seats

 

[Missy-]

Lord Spencer was not on the steps either, so draw the conclusions yourself.
Funny how the cynicism and the old stories are coming back fast, even when the obvious is just in front of your eyes...
That's your privilege.

I did include Charles Spencer in my reply.

So I guess that answers my question, Charles and Sarah are not included in the 'happy family'. I assume Charles Spencer was excluded because of obvious reasons (and I doubt he cares), but what has Lady Sarah done to be removed from the family? She's been the height of decorum and helped W & H with tying up Diana's charities.

 

[Juliette2]

I found it odd that the Spencer’s were seated very far away. And some celebs like Oprah, Serena Williams, the clooneys had better seats.
At Williams wedding, they had prominent seats

It might be odd but it may reflect how differently the two brothers feel about some members of their family ( I stress the hypothetical before people start jumping at me!).

 

[Denville]

I think the Queen would have exited via the west steps to see off the carriage were it not for Philips surgery. I think they were being very sensitive to the steps he could take.

Phil looked very well considering he had major surgery recenetly. I ws delighted to see him walking and looked amazingly fit...

 

[Mbruno]

I found it odd that the Spencer’s were seated very far away. And some celebs like Oprah, Serena Williams, the clooneys had better seats.
At Williams wedding, they had prominent seats

Oprah, Serena and the Clooneys were on the bride’s side of the Quire.

 

[Nico]

I did include Charles, Lord Spencer in my reply.

So I guess that answers my question, Charles and Sarah are not included in the 'happy family'. I assume Charles Spencer was excluded because of obvious reasons (and I doubt he cares), but what has Lady Sarah done to be removed from the family? She's been the height of decorum and helped W & H with tying up Diana's charities.

As far i guess, maybe like you, that Lord Spencer has a "challenging" relationship with his nephews, i don't think there is problem per se with Lady Sarah.
But the fact is Lady Jane was asked to be part of the ceremony yesterday and was among the final , and symbolic, lineup on the stairs...
By "happy family" i don't mean that Harry doesn't care about the other members of the family, quite the contrary in fact, but that the photo on the steps was clearly taken to underline a message :" there's no feud between us. period."

 

[Lumutqueen]

I don’t think who was on the steps has anything to do with “happy families”. Frankly something tells me that Lady Jane wasn’t supposed to be on the steps at all, or that she was invited due to reading during the ceremony. If you’re really going to say that the exclusion of uncles and aunts from the steps means no happy families, then it’s very awkward for Edward, Anne and Andrew.....

 

[Mbruno]

Let us not forget that Charles knew Lady Jane before dating Diana and the Fellowes have always been close to the Crown. I wouldn’t read too much into who was or was not on the steps. If anything, Charles was physically separate from the rest of the RF , except his immediate family.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Oprah, Serena and the Clooneys were on the bride’s side of the Quire.

So was Earl Spencer and current Countess Spencer, they were sat on the first two seats on the front row just down from Oprah. They are my featured on DM “best seats” list. All other Spencer’s were seated in the “cheap” seats including Lady Jane and Sarah.

 

[Missy-]

I don’t think who was on the steps has anything to do with “happy families”. Frankly something tells me that Lady Jane wasn’t supposed to be on the steps at all, or that she was invited due to reading during the ceremony. If you’re really going to say that the exclusion of uncles and aunts from the steps means no happy families, then it’s very awkward for Edward, Anne and Andrew.....

Exactly. As I said earlier, I don't attach any symbolism to the photo of them on the steps. Nice photo, nothing special, end of imo.

 

[Nico]

The steps were the equivalent of the Balcony for William, so it was highly symbolic imo, and, maybe, a reminder of the soon-to-be "slimmed-down " Royal family.