Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson, Current Events & Discussion 1: July 2007-Aug 2009

[Emeralds and Opals]

I would think they speak English to each other.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

in a recent Billed Bladet article she said that she speaks English with Gustav and that she is learning German though it is hard for her apparently.

 

[ashelen]

i guess as how the situation goes, they will never get married1 what ashelemed1

 

[PrincessofEurope]

i guess as how the situation goes, they will never get married1 what ashelemed1

sorry but why are they unlikely ever to marry

 

[wymanda]

i guess as how the situation goes, they will never get married1 what ashelemed1

This is another one that I wonder why it hasn't been challenged in the European Court of Human Rights. The presence of an ancient will (1800's) that says a marriage must be to someone of equal rank is clearly discriminatory & should be set aside.

 

[ashelen]

This is another one that I wonder why it hasn't been challenged in the European Court of Human Rights. The presence of an ancient will (1800's) that says a marriage must be to someone of equal rank is clearly discriminatory & should be set aside.

i agree and what is more ashelemend being her already 40,she will need a miracle for pregnancy!

 

[Charlotte1]

This is another one that I wonder why it hasn't been challenged in the European Court of Human Rights. The presence of an ancient will (1800's) that says a marriage must be to someone of equal rank is clearly discriminatory & should be set aside.

The will doesn't affect either Gustav's or Carina's human rights so that court doesn't apply. Gustav is free to marry anyone he wants to, it's only if he wanted to keep his inheritance ( the Berleberg estate) that he is obligated to marry according to the terms of the will.

The will isn't that ancient it was drawn up in the 1930s by Gustav's grandfather also called Gustav, it was done to save the estate from inheritance taxes, Prince Richard didn't inherit the estate, the will stated that Richard's future son was to inherit.

Although the will states that the grandson has to marry a woman of ayran and noble birth, there's no religious discrimination here as Carina is not Jewish.

All wills discrimate, it's not a basic human right to inherit property. The writer of a will can leave their estate to whomever they want and write in whatever conditions they want. Look at the example of Leona Helmsley who left $12million to her dog, $4million to be shared by 2 grandchildren provided they visited their grandfather's grave twice a year and kept the crypt steamcleaned and 2 other grandchildren got nothing.

German courts have upheld other wills from noble families that stipulated that the inheritance would go to those who married according to the wills' conditions as far as heirs marrying equally ( nobles).

 

[Charlotte1]

I just wondered which citizenship Carina and Gustav have.

I know that Carina's mother is of Mexican origin and her father is of Swedish origin, but she grew up in the USA. So, she's US American.
She is living in Germany.
Did she adopted the German citizenship?

What about Gustav?
Is he having the German-Danish dual citizenship?

Gustav has German citizenship, his sisters took out Danish citizenship but he didn't. ( Nathalie competed for Denmark in the last Olympics) I believe that Denmark doesn't allow its citizens to be dual citizens.

Carina was born in the US so she has US citizenship.

 

[acdc1]

Gustav has German citizenship, his sisters took out Danish citizenship but he didn't. ( Nathalie competed for Denmark in the last Olympics) I believe that Denmark doesn't allow its citizens to be dual citizens.

Carina was born in the US so she has US citizenship.

I didn't know that Denmark didn't allow dual citizenship! I have Danish friends who live in America, and their daughter was born in the US and they said that she has dual citizenship, but I guess not?

Sorry for derailing the topic!

 

[ashelen]

yes, danish accept dual citizenship!

 

[Sg1fan]

The U.S. also allows dual citizenship as long as the person does not vote or participate in the military in both countries. Carina could have dual citizenship easily if she qualifies elsewhere.

 

[bbb]

this probably is a stupid question by the term noble birth, i assume means her birthright or parents, the queen couldn't just bestow a title on her and "make" her noble? it seems a simple solution but then when you add the whole racist "ayran" thing it seem hopeless. i'm glad the family considers her one of their own and they seem happy, i wish them all the best in a IMO unfair situation.

 

[wymanda]

I do wonder how "devoted" Gustav really is to this young woman? Even without his paternal inheritance he is still the grandson of a King & I would assume that he had an inheritance from Queen Ingrid.

 

[Charlotte1]

I didn't know that Denmark didn't allow dual citizenship! I have Danish friends who live in America, and their daughter was born in the US and they said that she has dual citizenship, but I guess not?

Sorry for derailing the topic!

Not overly sure here, but if the daughter in question is under 18, then they could have dual citizenship ( US automatically as her birthplace and Danish from descent from her parents) but then once she becomes an adult, the Danes would want a definite choice.

Ashlen, Argentina does not allow its citizens to renounce their citizenship, so if an Argentine becomes a Danish citizen then they still in the eyes of Argentine law hold Argentinian citizenship, so there's the technical glitch that allows some dual citizenship. That may or may not be recognised by the Danes. EG Maxima is still an Argentinian citizen even though she is a Dutch princess and holds Dutch citizenship, she couldn't renounce her Argentine one. She has dual citizenship. Unlike Alexandra, Mary and Marie who all renounced theirs, Mary had 2, British ( courtesy of her parents) and Australian. Australia does allow its citizens to have dual citizenship.

bbb Carina is not Danish, therefore QMII cannot give her a title. Also the will states the future wife needs to be of noble birth so just giving her a title doesn't solve that problem.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Not overly sure here, but if the daughter in question is under 18, then they could have dual citizenship ( US automatically as her birthplace and Danish from descent from her parents) but then once she becomes an adult, the Danes would want a definite choice.

It's the same in Germany and most EU countries (except UK where dual citizenships for adults are allowed with member countries of the Commonwealth). Once you are 18 you must decide on one or the other.

Carina is not eligible for German citizenship unless getting married to Gustav but eligible to stay in the country without any problems as holder of any EU citizenship and with a bit more effort (visa etc) as holder of a US citizenship.

 

[Her_Majesty]

It's the same in Germany and most EU countries (except UK where dual citizenships for adults are allowed with member countries of the Commonwealth). Once you are 18 you must decide on one or the other.

No that's not true actually. In germany there is something called "doppelte Staatsangehörigkeit" (dual Citizenship). In some cases people are allowed to keep their original citizenship and to get the German one as well.
I have some friends who have dual citizenships (Swedish/German or Polish/German for example).
I don't know exactly who gets the dual citizenship... there are some newer laws about that. .. I have no idea who's included into the exeptions, to be honest.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

No that's not true actually. In germany there is something called "doppelte Staatsangehörigkeit" (dual Citizenship). In some cases people are allowed to keep their original citizenship and to get the German one as well.
I have some friends who have dual citizenships (Swedish/German or Polish/German for example).
I don't know exactly who gets the dual citizenship... there are some newer laws about that. .. I have no idea who's included into the exeptions, to be honest.

Sorry I might not be up to date then in terms of citizenship rules. What I know for sure is that EU citizens can stay and work in Germany without any problems whilst US citizens need a visa and a work permit.

 

[NotAPretender]

Definition of nobility

this probably is a stupid question by the term noble birth, i assume means her birthright or parents, the queen couldn't just bestow a title on her and "make" her noble? it seems a simple solution but then when you add the whole racist "ayran" thing it seem hopeless. i'm glad the family considers her one of their own and they seem happy, i wish them all the best in a IMO unfair situation.

In this regard, the definition of nobility is back a certain number of generations - generally speaking, it's four generations of noble ancestors in order to be considered noble for purposes of marriage. A title granted would enable Ms. Axelsson's great-great grandchildren to marry into this family, but not her.

bbb- it's not "unfair" at all - he can marry her at any time. He just has to give up the "stuff." He's not willing to do that. This is a situation in which he - they - have made a mercenary choice. None of the terms of the will were a surprise to anyone, and it was perfectly acceptable to him when he was engaged previously. At the time that the will was written, it was for wealth preservation; it appears that, in that matter, Prince Gustav is much like his grandfather in seeking to maintain his comfortable life. Who can blame him, if he likes his life this way?

 

[sgl]

Poor Elvire! It is unfortunate that her father ruined their relationship. Hopefully someday, an agreement that works for both Carina and Prince Gustav's family will be reached. They seem like such a happy couple. It would be really nice to see them marry.

 

[NotAPretender]

sgl, from everything that's been posted here regarding upholding of equivalent wills and terms, such an "agreement" is unlikely. And Gustav seems to be wedded to his inheritance first and foremost.

 

[PrincessDianafan]

I hope they don't end up like Princess Lillian and Prince Bertil who had to wait decades before they were allowed to marry.

 

[SarahMaria]

Carina speaks Danish! I read that in an article the other day.! The Article even states that she speaks PERFECT Danish.

 

[Emeralds and Opals]

Carina was even in one of the photos for Princess Benedikte's and Prince Richard's 2008 Christmas/2009 New Year card.

 

[Princess Robijn]

Could you please post it?

Josette

If Prince Gustav and Carina have a son (born out-of-wedlock) and Prince Gustav adopts him, would he be the heir to the title and everthing that goes with that title?

Josette

 

[sgl]

Carina was even in one of the photos for Princess Benedikte's and Prince Richard's 2008 Christmas/2009 New Year card.

I was wondering if Carina was in a Christmas card with the family. She seems to be included regularly in family events, so this does make sense. Does anyone know if she spent Christmas with his family, or did she spend it with her own family?

 

[Royal77]

I was wondering if Carina was in a Christmas card with the family. She seems to be included regularly in family events, so this does make sense. Does anyone know if she spent Christmas with his family, or did she spend it with her own family?

hello,

can you post the christmas card?

thanks

 

[pamk]

If Prince Gustav and Carina have a son (born out-of-wedlock) and Prince Gustav adopts him, would he be the heir to the title and everthing that goes with that title?

Josette

I would highly doubt it - without the sanctity of marriage, the son's birth
would not be legitimate - even if he were to be adopted.

 

[bbb]

if i remember correctly, thats what the will implies, that he can adopt a legal heir, so i think a son out of wedlock but legally adopted might qualify (this whole "noble arian" issue is so last century) if they have no children and he doesn't adopt an heir, who gets the title and money?

 

[ashelen]

if i remember correctly, thats what the will implies, that he can adopt a legal heir, so i think a son out of wedlock but legally adopted might qualify (this whole "noble arian" issue is so last century) if they have no children and he doesn't adopt an heir, who gets the title and money?

she is 40 i belive, difficult for her at this time to get pregnant, not impossible, the the treatments of today but she have to hurry up! may be they don't want kids, who knows?

 

[michelleq]

Am back after a short break and see that noone has mentioned the upcoming change in German family law which will become valid at the beginning of next year.

This law revises a law that became valid in 1875 which forced the churches to only marry people religiously when they had married by the state's lwa before. From 1.1.2009 church marriages and state marriages are two seperate bodies of law again like it was in 1875 and before.

How does that influence Gustaf and Carina?

A will with a provision about the marriage of an heir most likely will only affect a marriage by public law. Houselaws which are older than 1875 most probably are build around religious marriages, as public marriages did not really exist before that date. So when in 2009 these two types of marriage are seperated as bodies of law, Gustaf could marry Carina in church (probably valid according to his houselaws when it comes to produce legitimate heirs) while not marry her in a public office. It's a discussion going on if a church wedding consists of an "important reason" for a name change according to general law but as far as I could find out most experts say that it is.

So if Gustav married Carina in church, she could even get a name change to Princess of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and bear "legitimate" children with a claim to both the name and the inheritance of their father while the will is not affected by it.

I personally like that idea for Gustaf and Carina's sake, though I wished the will's provision about an "Aryan" marriage would be declared void. But who knows when and if this will happen!

I remembered reading this post when written; does anyone know if this is possible for Gustav?