Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson, Current Events & Discussion 1: July 2007-Aug 2009

[Guido]

I agree with you. She is practically Gustav's wife so why shouldn't she be allowed to wear a tiara.

Just because Carina is NOT Gustav's wife. They have never been married.

 

[Tilia C.]

There is no law that's forbidding an unmarried woman to borrow a tiara. Nor is it forbidden for a commoner to wear one. If Princess Benedikte does't mind Carina wearing her tiara, and if the royal family of Denmark doesn't mind her wearing it on the gala, everything is fine to me.
And if other royal families handle such things differently, that is perfectly ok, but not a law that has to be kept by everybody.

 

[sgl]

Princess Benedikte was the one who agreed to lend her tiara to Carina. Nobody forced her to lend the tiara. It was her decision. If she is okay with Carina wearing her tiara, and the Danish Royal Family doesn't seem to mind, then it really isn't a big deal. To my knowledge, there is no established protocol for the wearing of tiaras in Denmark.

 

[BurberryBrit]

She tries to look like a princess, but she is NOT.
Somehow it appears strange to me that a woman who is not a princess or from any other nobility wears a tiara.
It is my personal opinion but I find it a bit tacky.
IF she marries prince Gustav, THEN she can wear a tiara.
Call me old-fashioned, but if she can wear a tiara, my sister can too...

I have to say that I agree with you. It rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know why--it didn't bother me when she wore it to Marie's wedding, but now it seems that she's trying too hard??

 

[kbear]

Is there any time frame for the will to be challenged are they actually doing it?? Just curious.

 

[michelleq]

I have to say that I agree with you. It rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know why--it didn't bother me when she wore it to Marie's wedding, but now it seems that she's trying too hard??

I believe that I stated something along the same train of thought earlier in this thread; she seems to relish being "A Princess" yet she isn't. It will be very interesting to see how this turns out.

 

[NotAPretender]

The couple has been trying to overturn the will since 2006, according to several articles that I have seen.

I'd caution those who search for information about this couple that there is a lot of spin and disinformation about them. In one blog, it is stated that Axelsson does not know how to speak English; she was born, raised, and attended high school in Santa Clara, California - English is her first language. For a long time, her age was a movable feast - anywhere from 32 to 36, but never her actual age of 39 (at the time); it was not until a member here actually found her birth records at California's Vital Statistics, and published them here, that the correct info ended up in the press and the couple sheepishly admitted to her age.

Tiaras are a symbol of wealth; my family owns one that dates to the 1830's, although the wealth that gave us that piece was expropriated by the Soviets in 1945. A tiara is merely a piece of jewelry, denoting nothing but an ability to have one's hair adorned by expensive gems. The lending of the tiara by the family to Axelsson does denote a certain acceptance, and I think that is what the objection is to, here; by wearing a piece of jewelry associated with a noble family of which she is not an official member, it has all the appearance of, shall we say, desperation, the more-than-whiff of "I am SO a member, so THERE!"

If I were Carina, I'd decline to wear such things again until my position was solidified. It's all a game of fairy-tale pretend; no matter how much it's glossified, this aging ex-model is a paramour.

The will was established for wealth preservation. And preserve his wealth, Gustav is doing - preserving it for himself. The next heir should be, if not already be, preparing to step into the role. If the will is overturned (unlikely, as it violates no Human Rights provisions) and Gustav marries Carina, the chances of a child being born are, according to accepted tables, very low. After the age of 40, 90% of a woman's eggs are genetically abnormal, resulting in higher rates of birth defects and spontaneous miscarriage. First children in one's forties are even more rare. So the next heir should be ready to step in. If the will is upheld, then that is really going to be the test of the "true love" of this pair, then, isn't it? He has to marry her and lose all his precious stuff, or not marry her into perpetuity. Pretty bad spot for her to be in, no matter what. So, if she wants to wear a tiara now and again to make up for that, fine.

I don't read all that awfully much into a ring and a kind word from a kind lady. Fergie had a diamond and ruby ring from Andrew, and it didn't mean a lot to her; I've been engaged twice without marrying either of those gentlemen, each time with a ring and acceptance by the future in-laws.

If I were her, I'd make darned sure I'd hired my own counsel regarding an appropriate settlement if the relationship fails for any reason. She's staked a lot on very little, and has no legal standing whatsoever. Gustav could wipe out in a car accident, and the house and stuff go to his next heir immediately - nothing and no place to live for her. The will could be overturned, they marry, and have no heirs. Gustav predeceases her, and again, nothing and no place to live for her, as the entirety is entailed. The will could be upheld, Gustav decide that having the stuff is just as important as it always was, and Carina is gone, in favor of a bride who meets the criteria.

No, this has gone from being a teeny slice of a maybe fairy-tale, to a grubby grasp of material posessions and greedy desire to have it all without sacrifice. The grandfather's will was never intended, I'm sure, to force such a choice. But in the end, it's about money. Title is part of it, but money is the fullest expression of it.

Hobsian choice, eh?

 

[Marsel]

The couple has been trying to overturn the will since 2006, according to several articles that I have seen.

Gustav and Carina announced their decision to overturn the will in 2007, however it is well possible they had made inquires earlier.

<...> The next heir should be, if not already be, preparing to step into the role.

If Prince Gustav isn’t able to obtain annulment for the will or if he has no legitimate Heirs, the next in the line (who meets all the requirements of the current will) is the first-born son of Prince Robin, Prince Richard’s brother. Prince Robin was married to a noblewoman in his first marriage, so if his eldest son, born from that marriage, does nothing to contradict the terms of the will, he is theoretically the next Heir.

<...>If the will is overturned (unlikely, as it violates no Human Rights provisions)... <...>

The more I learn of the terms of the will, less likely invalidation seems. As it has been pointed out, the will does not actually forbid them to marry, it just stipulates that should a marriage that contradicts the terms of the will take place, Prince Gustav will have to surrender the hereditary rights and privileges coming with it.
German law is very specific that a person is fully entitled to leave their legal possessions to anyone they wish. Unless Gustav’s lawyers are able to prove that his grandfather was heavily influenced (preferably against his will or better judgement) by the political atmosphere of the time (which is very unlikely, in my opinion and could only be used to void the “Aryan” clause), I don’t see how they can nullify the will.
Another chance to invalidate the will is to use the argument (brought by German Highest federal Court in a ruling for a similar Leiningen case) that there is need of a ruling against an existing person, not any person in general. This is explained a lot clearer in these posts: post 1, post 2.

The terms of the will as such are hardly more excessive than the discrimination against Catholics in the British Succession Laws (Sophia Naturalization Act). If a court were to rule in favour of invalidating the will, than it would be a strong precedent for similar discriminative laws in all other Royal Families, starting from the need to seek the Monarch’s permission, or equal primogeniture.

<...>and Gustav marries Carina, the chances of a child being born are, according to accepted tables, very low. After the age of 40, 90% of a woman's eggs are genetically abnormal, resulting in higher rates of birth defects and spontaneous miscarriage. First children in one's forties are even more rare. So the next heir should be ready to step in. If the will is upheld, then that is really going to be the test of the "true love" of this pair, then, isn't it? He has to marry her and lose all his precious stuff, or not marry her into perpetuity. Pretty bad spot for her to be in, no matter what. So, if she wants to wear a tiara now and again to make up for that, fine.

I think there is nothing that prevents Gustav and Carina from having children whenever they wish, even before their (possible) marriage: even if Gustav fathers any children out of wedlock, he will just have to acknowledge and legally adopt them and his eldest son will be his Heir, whether Gustav was married to his mother or not. German Law allows that and if the situation with the will doesn’t get clearer, I believe such outcome is increasingly likely. Another alternative is a marriage in Church without public law marriage. Carina will be Princess Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg, their children will be legitimate and will have inheritance rights, as has been explained in this post.



I have also found an answer to an earlier question by one of the members (I apologize for not remembering the specific post where the question was asked): could one of the conditions of the will, specifically, the clause about the prospective bride’s nobility, be bypassed if Carina is ‘ennobled’ by Queen Margrethe? The answer is unfortunately no; the will is very specific on the issue and requires at least four generations of nobility.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Just a note of correction, NAP:

It was Netty Lestria from the Nobiliana Forums who researched and found, on the California State Records, Carina's detailed information including her age. It was then posted here on TRF's days later then picked up by the press.

In addition, we don't know if she attended high school in Santa Clara (somewhere in Santa Cruz is more likeky since it has been confirmed via her bio from her Literary agent, that she grew up there) per se. However, we do know she was born in Santa Clara County.

 

[ashelen]

so the press was allowed to take it from here and publish? how did she and the family react to that?

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

It was a coincedence I suppose, Ashelen.

First, Netty found the information and posted it on the other forum on June 30, 2008. Then it was posted on TRF's and finally published elsewhere.

 

[ashelen]

It was a coincedence I suppose, Ashelen.

First, Netty found the information and posted it on the other forum on June 30, 2008. Then it was posted on TRF's and finally published elsewhere.

thankyou so much for your info, I wonder how was their reaction? didn't wikpedia too had her date of birth? for whatreason they wanted to hide it so much? i tell you honest, i feel very sorry for her,

 

[Paty]

I have a question. I apologize if it is a stupid question, but I´m not very familiarized with the Will.
Why Prince Gustav's father, Prince Richard does not change the Will. Is he in the right of do it?

 

[JessRulz]

Prince Richard cannot change the will, as it was his father's (the elder Prince Gustav). Richard was bypassed in the will by his father (Richard's firstborn son was named Prince Gustav's heir) to avoid death taxes.

 

[NotAPretender]

Just a note of correction, NAP:

It was Netty Lestria from the Nobiliana Forums who researched and found, on the California State Records, Carina's detailed information including her age. It was then posted here on TRF's days later then picked up by the press.

In addition, we don't know if she attended high school in Santa Clara (somewhere in Santa Cruz is more likeky since it has been confirmed via her bio from her Literary agent, that she grew up there) per se. However, we do know she was born in Santa Clara County.

Hi GT. One of the articles published about Axelsson and numerous other models included the information that she attended high school in California (Santa Clara County) and that it was after graduating that she moved to NYC.

 

[H.M. Margrethe]

Prince Richard cannot change the will, as it was his father's (the elder Prince Gustav). Richard was bypassed in the will by his father (Richard's firstborn son was named Prince Gustav's heir) to avoid death taxes.

I guess that the only one who can figth the will is the supreem court in Hagg or am i wrong about this ?

 

[NotAPretender]

thankyou so much for your info, I wonder how was their reaction? didn't wikpedia too had her date of birth? for whatreason they wanted to hide it so much? i tell you honest, i feel very sorry for her,

Hi Ashlen, wikipedia did not have her date of birth. It wasn't until it was published here that Wiki picked it up.Actually, her entry over at Wiki has been nominated twice for deletion as being not "suitably notable."

Why the lack of confirmation about her age? Who knows? When I have a bad day and have a glass of wine, I beg the waitstaff to demand age ID from me, just for instant ego boost

From my prior post:

... In one blog, it is stated that Axelsson does not know how to speak English; she was born, raised, and attended high school in Santa Clara, California - English is her first language. For a long time, her age was a movable feast - anywhere from 32 to 36, but never her actual age of 39 (at the time)...

That's all.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

From my prior post:

That's all.

But it has been noted that she grew up in the Santa Cruz Mountains, which is apart of Santa Clara County. So which is it?

Per her literary agent Andrew Nurnberg and Associates (with whom I trust more than a fan blog):

Children's author and illustrator, Carina Axelsson was born in Santa Clara, California and grew up running wild in the Santa Cruz Mountains south of San Francisco. After high school she moved to New York City then on to Paris where she studied art and published her first book. Today she lives in the forests of Northern Germany with her boyfriend and two dogs.

It doesn't say she attended HS in city of Santa Clara, which is north of San Jose and miles from the main towns within the Santa Cruz mountains where she apparently grew up (which may include her teen HS years.) For all we know she could have attended HS in Los Gatos... I'm just looking for solid evidence and not from Wikipedia either.

 

[NotAPretender]

I was pretty clear that I did not say that she attended Santa Clara High School. I really don't know what else I could say that would make that more clear.

As to her "running wild" (insert wild eyeroll to match) in the Santa Cruz mountains, I imagine that her literary agent was taking literary license to describe her wild and free recreational joys, underlining her outdoorsy sense of easy breezy life. I'm not picturing that she actually grew up running wild in the Santa Cruz mountains, a la the character of "Nell" from the movie Nell, as played by Jodie Foster and co-starring Liam Neeson.

If you really want to know where she went to high school, though, have you tried www.mylife.com or www.classmates.com or www.reunion.com? There's also the old fashioned way of researching via yearbooks.

I totally agree about Wikipedia, by the way. I write articles for them on some other historic figures and the quality of the pages is wildly divergent. My firm is very, er, firm that any research cannot use Wiki as a source; I go to the sources on the articles themselves if I go to Wiki for my own professional use.

ETA - oh, I caught your meaning there about where she went to high school being referenced from blogs. It was an article in the New York Times. Although they recently changed hands, I think the old grey lady is fairly un-blog-y as yet. Who knows a year from now? At least Murdoch didn't get her.

 

[michelleq]

I have asked the question as to whether Carina spends time with Alexandra and Nathalie before, yet I have never seen a post to verify; only the wedding where she was first seen. Recently, for Prince Henriek's birthday, you see Alexandra talking with Mary and Victoria, but not with Carina.

Any feedback?

 

[sgl]

I have never seen photos of Carina with either of Gustav's sisters, but perhaps another poster has? It is difficult to know by looking at photos, or the lack thereof, if she has a close relationship with Nathalie and Alexandra. I've only seen her in photos with Gustav, Princess Benedikte, and the extended DRF.

 

[NotAPretender]

michelleq and sgl - nor have I. It was reported here that Axelsson appeared on the DRF Christmas card for 2008, but it was never posted here so I can't verify that in any way.

Some have asked what sources I use. I generally use Lexis-Nexis to search major media. Yes, there's a charge but it's accurate information. Good stuff.

 

[Mandy]

Several posts (and replies to said posts) have been deleted due the shear speculative nature of the comments offered.

Please make sure that your opinions are based on reliable published reports in compliance with the Zero Tolerance Policy and TRF Rules.

Since no information has been provided by the family, we will cease to speculate about 1) the type of relationship that exists between Gustav and Carina; 2) the reasons why Gustav is challenging his Grandfather's will in the courts.

Please remember, you don't have to like Gustav and/or Carina, but your posts must be respectful nonetheless. Words such as money grabbing, gold digging, money hungry, etc to describe their behaviour or character are unacceptable.

Thanks for your cooperation,

Mandy
Danish Forum Moderator

 

[sgl]

Here is an article (in French) that talks about a children's book written by Carina Axelsson:

Carina Axelsson et le petit prince Nigel | Noblesse & Royautés

 

[sgl]

Billed-Bladet has a photo article about Carina in honor of her upcoming 41st birthday:

Billed-Bladet - Carina Axelsson - Prins Gustavs smukke kæreste

The title says, "Carina Axelsson-Prince Gustav's Beautiful Sweetheart". The article says that Gustav and Carina have known each other for seven years, and that the residents of Bad Berleburg refer to her as Frau Axelsson, even though she isn't married. It also talks about the children's books that she has written, and mentions that she is originally from California.

 

[auntie]

I have noticed a couple of things whilst following Carina, the first is that despite being one of the more exquisite looking royals/datingmarrying royals, she is starting to look her age, I wish they could tie the knot b4 she hits her 50's, Even if it worked for Pss Lilian of Sweden, it might not work here. The second thing is the fact that I do think she is friendlier with the Cpss than with the Berleberg princesses. It could be a natural result of chemistry, or the fact that they both have commoner backgrounds, or the fact that Natalie and Alexandra, being minor royals, are more particular whom they associate with. the latter I have found very true, esp here in the UK. the royals are marrying and hanging around with commoners, whilst the upper class, aristocracy etc. still find it terribly important to be around and marry their social equals.

 

[BurberryBrit]

Glittering Tiaras mentioned that Carina dressed very differently earlier in the courtship (more matronly). Can someone post pics?

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

You can find all of her fashion choices in her own discussion in the Royal House of Fashion sub forum.

 

[BurberryBrit]

You can find all of her fashion choices in her own discussion in the Royal House of Fashion sub forum.

I saw that thread but did not see old photos of her with Gustav where she looked matronly...

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Well, I don't know what to tell you.

All the collected images of Carina's style (past and present; with and without Gustav) are in her own topic in the RHofF sub-forum. As for me calling her style "matronly", well, it's all subjective.