Order of the Garter, Ceremonies and Information 1: 2003 - 2021


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To save the Garter thread from becoming bogged down in an argument about who Prince William resembles, all posts on the subject have been moved to the Family Resemblances thread.
 
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Now, that's a magnificent picture, Warren, thanks for sharing it! :flowers:
I am glad that little has changed in the splendour and magnificence of the ceremony for many centuries; judging by the sea of people who were there to witness it, they are glad such ceremonies still exist as well.

I'm glad no one had malfunctions with their feathers this year though. :wink:
 
Yes, those are great pictures. I wonder who the lady in blue is with Camilla...its not the Queen. I wonder if its Julia Olgivy?
 
That's The Duchess of Gloucester.
 
:previous:
Maybe Alexandra's daughter, I see a resemblance.
But the woman in Warrens post is the Duchess of Gloucester. :flowers:
 
I'll go again! :) That's Julia Ogilvy, daughter-in-law of Princess Alexandra.
 
Ha, yeah, I wrote that piece, so that's just me confirming me. ;)
 
Order of the Garter - denial possible?

Dear members,

I´ve got a question concerning the Order of the Garter. Even if nobody can answer this question, I´m interested in your opinion!

Some encyclopeadia state that the order was deprived from the german Emperors Wilhelm I. and Wilhelm II. and from Emperor Franz Joseph I. of Austria after WW I. Other sources make no mention of this.

In the case of Wilhelm II. I have no doubt that in theory this was possible. He was still alive. But with Wilhelm I. and Franz Joseph I. I´m very uncertain! Both persons were already dead, when the denial took place.

In german law for example, you cannot take royal, noble or academic ranks away from someone who is dead.

Or is the memership in the Order of the Garter a personal honour, which always ends automatically with the death of the bearer and the denial was only pro forma because the germans were so evil ;)?

Thank you in advance for your answers!

Greetings,

Mathis von Augustenburg
 
They were stripped of the Garter fairly early in the war, while Franz-Joseph was still alive.

Under British law all honours are the personal gift of the monarch (even now when approved by the government) and therefore the monarch individually, or on the recommendation of the government, can strip anyone of an honour.

Not only did the Germans/Austrians lose the Garter but they were stripped of all British titles etc e.g. the Duke of Albany lost that title (although no one else can be given it while he still has male heirs who could petition for its return).

German law doesn't apply to British titles so the Duke of Albany became a non-person to the British Royal Family after becoming a Nazi and although his sister remained a beloved member of the BRF her brother effectively didn't exist.

This also applied to the Kaiser - his relationship with his British family effectively ceased with the war although he did manage to acknowledge his aunt and uncle's 50th wedding anniversary during the war.
 
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According to Wikipedia, all the german Soverigns were stripped of the Order in 1915.
 
Oh thank you, very interesting overview!

Allright, but do you know if the membership in the order ends with the death of the bearer?

By the way, in my opinion it was a shame to strip out Wilhelm I. of Prussia. At the beginning of WW I. he was already 26 years dead. But this is like the whole war was: a shame - for the british, the french, the russians, the germans and the austrians.

Greetings
Mathis
 
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Hi,

According to that list Frederick III was invested in 1858 as Crown Prince of Prussia; and William I was invested in 1861 as King of Prussia.
But, neither was declassed as both were long dead; and, I would surmise, had nothing to do with WWI.

But, both William II and Franz Joseph were alive and declassed on May 13, 1915; as both were responsible for this war...

Larry
 
I just looked at the list of Garter Knights and Wilhelm I of Germany (who I assume you mean) was not stripped of the Garter in 1915 unlike his sons and other German/Austrians. He was dead and so was not able to be stripped.

The following is the list of those who were removed and the first two Emperors of Germany - neither of whom were removed as they were both dead. They are the first two on the list #720 and 728 while all others were removed. There were a number of other German Kings and Princes and Grand Dukes etc given during the time period of these awards who were also deceased at the time and thus were not removed.

  • 720 (inv 1858) Friedrich Wilhelm Nikolaus Karl, Crown Prince of Prussia (1831-88). Succ. 1888 as Friedrich III, Emperor of Germany. Married Victoria, Princess Royal, eldest daughter of Queen Victoria.
  • 728 (inv 1861) Wilhelm I, King of Prussia (1797-1888). Became in 1871 Wilhelm I, Emperor of Germany.
  • 754 (inv 1867) Francis Joseph, Emperor of Austria (1830-1916). Removed 13 May 1915.
  • 767 (inv 1877) Prince Friedrich Wilhelm Viktor Albert of Prussia (1859-1941). Succ. 1888 as Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany. Removed 13 May 1915.
  • 769 (inv 1878) Prince Ernest Augustus William Adolphus George Frederick of Hanover (1845-1923). 3rd Duke of Cumberland and Teviotdale. Son of George V, King of Hanover. Removed 13 May 1915.
  • 792 (inv 1889) Prince Albert Wilhelm Heinrich of Prussia (1862-1929). Brother of Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany (the Kaiser), and grandson of Queen Victoria. Removed 13 May 1915.
  • 797 (inv 1892) Ernst Ludwig Karl Albrecht Wilhelm, Grand Duke of Hesse and the Rhine [Hesse-Darmstadt] (1868-1937). Removed 13 May 1915.
  • 814 (inv 1901) Friedrich Wilhelm Viktor August Ernst, Crown Prince Imperial of Germany (1882-1951). Removed 13 May 1915.
  • 822 (inv 1902) Prince Leopold Charles Edward George Albert, Duke of Albany (1884-1954). Became in 1900 reigning Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Removed 13 May 1915.
  • 827 (inv 1904) Wilhelm II, King of Württemberg (1848-1921). Removed 13 May 1915.
Going on what happened when my distant cousin died in 2000 the actual Garter had to be returned but there is no suggestion that he is still a member as there is a limited number of knights at any one time and he has been replaced.
 
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Vecchiolarry said:
But, both William II and Franz Joseph were alive and declassed on May 13, 1915; as both were responsible for this war...
Click to expand...

I agree with you that this action was legitimate, as the countries were enemies in war. But the question of guilt nowadays blames ALL countries, monarchs etc. for WWI., not only Wilhelm II. and Franz Joseph.

Very interesting! In many so called "history books" Wilhelm I. of Prussia is among the people who were stripped out. But when not - so much the better.

Thanks for your reply!
 
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One that some people have had trouble with over the years is Emperor Hirohito who was stripped during World War II and then given it back again many years later.

I wonder if Wilhelm II had been able to hold onto his crown (doubtful I know but...) would it have ever been returned??
 
MvAugustenburg said:
Allright, but do you know if the membership in the order ends with the death of the bearer?
Click to expand...

Yes the membership ends with the death of the bearer, and the heirs return the insignia to the monarch. This was seen in one of the recent documentaries about the Queen, probably "Monarchy at Work". The widow of Sir Edmund Hillary is seen meeting with the Queen and returning his insignia, the documentary on Windsor Castle has more information on the insignia and its age. There can only be a certain amount of knights at any one time due to limited amount of insignia. When a knight dies then there is a vacancy, foreign knights, stranger knights I think they're called, members of other royal families are not counted in this total. They also rarely parade, the last time most of the foreign royals paraded en mass was for the Queen's Golden Jubilee.
Each of the knights also has a banner in St Georges' chapel.
 
QueenElizabeth said:
How can I get admission into St George's Chapel for the Garter Service?
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A limited number of tickets is available for members of the public to watch the procession to St. George's Chapel from inside the precincts of Windsor Castle.

Applications must be sent between 1 January and 1 March each year to:
The Superintendent
Windsor Castle
Windsor
Berkshire SL4 1NJ

:)
 
QueenElizabeth said:
Yes I know, but to attend the Service itself? How does that work?
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I don't know, be honoured with the Order of the Garter. ;)
I think RoyalProtocol has attended some part of the ceremony, i'm unsure which part it was.

sgl said:
Has Zara Phillips received the Order of the Garter?
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No, she has only ever recieved an MBE.
 
lumutqueen said:
I think RoyalProtocol has attended some part of the ceremony, i'm unsure which part it was.
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I haven't posted here since last Aug. But thought I'd answer this one, to attend the actual service in St. George's Chapel you have to be invited, my invitation was due to my membership of the friends of the Chapel which anyone can join and then apply to attend the service, though tickets are very limited
 
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:crown5:

Order of the Garter Service

2010

° ° °
​
 
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Order of the Garter Service 2010

The Order of the Garter Service at St. George's Chapel in Windsor
Castle, Windsor, England on June 14, 2010.

So far I've seen the Queen, Prine Philip, Prince William, Princess Alexandra,
Princess Anne, Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, the Duke of Gloucester
and the former British Prime Minister John Major ;)


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 ** belga **
 
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