New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024

[Archduchess Zelia]

Alexandra's press secretary hasn't just been talking to the press. She participated in an end of the year-type talkshow with J&M's go-to tabloid journalist. It's all getting a bit tiring.

Again, I have to say that it speaks volumes about QMII's love for her son, daughters-in-law (current and former) and grandchildren that she just sits back and takes public strike upon public strike from them. Seemingly without consequences.

As for the approval rating, objectively speaking 69% isn't bad considering how poorly this situation was handled by the DRF – especially not with 19% being indifferent. And it's a snapshot reflecting their handling. I actually have no doubt it will go back up again.

Yes, why is she talking to the press?! Why have a planned interview to air dirt on the family? What are they trying to gain? Since the title change is coming in a few weeks, are they trying to go all out to stop it?! This is pathetic. Especially when, they keep mentioning that they were going to lose their titles when they got married. Also, if I wanted answers from my family, I would call them myself because that is what adults do.

Absolutely agree.

 

[kimebear]

And for me communication goes both ways. At 23 and 20, both are no longer little boys.

This is a case where the Queen should be the one to reach out and talk to her grandsons, not the other way around. Her decision was the catalyst for this.


All it would take is an invitation to the palace to meet for lunch and a chat with Grandma. If she can't even do that much, that's a problem.

 

[Muhler]

What accounts for the drop in the Queen's popularity? Did the Danes not like that the Queen had stripped the titles of Prince Joachim's sons?

I think the whole situation concerning the titles of Prince Joachim's sons was mishandled by the Queen and the royal house.

That seems to me to be the obvious explanation. Because she hasn't done anything else that should cause a drop in her approval ratings. In fact considering that she was celebrated this year, they should remain high.
Not that 11 % is a huge drop, but it is significant.

Yes, why is she talking to the press?! Why have a planned interview to air dirt on the family? What are they trying to gain? Since the title change is coming in a few weeks, are they trying to go all out to stop it?! This is pathetic. Especially when, they keep mentioning that they were going to lose their titles when they got married. Also, if I wanted answers from my family, I would call them myself because that is what adults do.

Very good points.

Those who have been talking: Alexandra and Nikolai (Felix wisely kept his mouth shut) are perhaps being kept in the dark because they are not trusted? That's a pretty bad thing! But Alexandra (and Nikolai) did go straight to the press right after the announcement.

And QMII and/or Frederik can't exactly keep Joachim in the dark if there is any attempt of a reconciliation.
But if Joachim hasn't said anything substantial at least to his ex-wife and sons, does that mean he has been gagged?

 

[xenobia]

This is a case where the Queen should be the one to reach out and talk to her grandsons, not the other way around. Her decision was the catalyst for this.

All it would take is an invitation to the palace to meet for lunch and a chat with Grandma. If she can't even do that much, that's a problem.

This. Just because the Queen has spoken to Joachim, that doesn't include direct communications with her adult grandsons. She could have reached out to them. She didn't.

Was the decision right? Yes. But it's a textbook example of how to NOT handle things.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Some news from Alexandra's secretary:
https://www.bt.dk/royale/grevinde-a...afsloerer-dronningen-har-heller-ikke-talt-med

BT has talked to Helle von Wildenrath Løvgreen regarding Nikolai and Felix.

[...]

Q: So they have been through a crisis in the DRF since 28th September and at no point has the Queen picked up the phone and called Nikolai or Felix?
Helle von Wildenrath Løvgreen: "No."

How does Nikolai and Felix feel about that?
Helle von Wildenrath Løvgreen: "Nothing has changed. They are still incredibly sad. They don't understand why.
They have always known that the day would come, because when they married their titles would disappear. As Nikolai said, it would thus happen, when he himself wanted to and it would be on a happy day.
Instead they now feel punished and as if they have done something wrong."

It would be understandable if the princes felt "punished" by the absence of any outreach from their grandmother. However, given that their spokeswoman is not saying that, but instead saying it is the acceleration of the timing which has made them feel punished:

It confuses me why the princes feel it is more punitive to have their royal titles disappear together with their siblings' and half-siblings' on a set date than for the titles to be revoked individually on their wedding days. While I personally would have preferred the siblings' royal status to be maintained until marriage, for several reasons:

1. It would have been more in keeping with tradition, following the precedent set by King Frederik IX and Queen Margrethe II when they informed Elisabeth, Ingolf and Knud (also children of a younger son) that they would lose their royal status if they married.
2. Assuming they did not ask and receive the monarch's consent granted in Council of State for their marriages, they would lose their royal status and their right to the throne simultaneously, whereas the current January 1, 2023 plan will create a discrepancy of the siblings being private citizens but still entitled to succeed to the Crown, at least until they marry.
3. It would preserve their freedom of choice to remain in the Royal House, as they could opt not to marry.

I nevertheless fully understand the Queen's preference for this new solution over following the precedent. In the present climate, revoking titles on marriage is easily spun by those ignorant or pretending ignorance of Danish royal history and the duties and responsibiities of the Royal House as bigotry and malice against spouse, and an attempt by a controlling grandmother/uncle to discourage a loving couple's marriage. Pointing to the precedent that no Danish prince(ss) in modern times has been permitted to retain their status after marrying a Danish commoner is unlikely to be compelling to casual observers.

Also, it would be a different issue if the princes, for one reason or another, knew they were unlikely to ever marry, as in that case they would have had a legitimate expectation to remain princes all their lives, like Princess Elisabeth. But from Ms. von Wildenrath Løvgreen's comments, that does not appear to be the case (and Prince Nikolai's long partnership with Benedikte Thoustrup might also suggest that marriage is not unlikely for him).

Unfortunately for QMII this is reflected in an opinion poll published today:
https://www.bt.dk/royale/dronningens-popularitet-i-frit-fald-blandt-danskerne

Here the Danes have been surveyed in January, in July and in December. (The grey drop down boxes in the article.)
The question by YouGov was: How good or bad do you feel about QMII?
The results are:
Godt eller meget godt = Good or very good.
Dårligt eller meget dårligt = Bad or very bad.
Hverken godt eller dårligt = Neither good nor bad.
Ved ikke = Don't know.
- Well, you read the figures.

Comparing HM's ratings among Danish adults in July 8-11 and December 9-13:

Good or very good: 78% to 69% (-9%)
Neither good nor bad: 16% to 19% (+3%)
Bad or very bad: 4% to 8% (+4%)
Don't know: 2% to 4% (+2%)

Did the Danes not like that the Queen had stripped the titles of Prince Joachim's sons?

According to a representative poll in October, 50.6% were in favor of the decision while 23.2% were against it.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...nts-2008-and-2022-a-16845-51.html#post2498279

 

[Izzie]

This is a case where the Queen should be the one to reach out and talk to her grandsons, not the other way around. Her decision was the catalyst for this.


All it would take is an invitation to the palace to meet for lunch and a chat with Grandma. If she can't even do that much, that's a problem.

Agree on this. One person set this in motion. Period. Everything else is the fallout of that decision and the domino effect it continues to have. Sadly, everyone else has been left holding the bag of turd for this ridiculous decision.

That seems to me to be the obvious explanation. Because she hasn't done anything else that should cause a drop in her approval ratings. In fact considering that she was celebrated this year, they should remain high.
Not that 11 % is a huge drop, but it is significant.



Very good points.

Those who have been talking: Alexandra and Nikolai (Felix wisely kept his mouth shut) are perhaps being kept in the dark because they are not trusted? That's a pretty bad thing! But Alexandra (and Nikolai) did go straight to the press right after the announcement.

And QMII and/or Frederik can't exactly keep Joachim in the dark if there is any attempt of a reconciliation.
But if Joachim hasn't said anything substantial at least to his ex-wife and sons, does that mean he has been gagged?

Something still does not add up to me about this whole disaster/debacle.

Why not talk to your own grandsons? And yes, it is up to grandma to pick up the phone and talk to her grandchildren. She set this in motion. Maybe this was a situation to more grandmother than monarch.

My gut says something is turning bts and it has not yet all been resolved. I mean a decision was made obviously without looking at all the potential consequences and logistics of said decision. That is why I do not buy the whole "I've been thinking of this for a long time" excuse. If so, then all potential scenarios and issues would have been resolved before a public announcement was made. Someone went rogue.

And this is not like the school issue that basically was closed once the kids were pulled from the school. This issue is ongoing and is something that will continually be brought up.

So, if we go by that poll, this decision or the handling of it has had an effect. I wonder where other DRF members fell in that poll. Dropping 11% is significant. And that is during a jubilee year and the never-ending events around it.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Joachim himself confirmed discussions were initiated in May. In what world does a 5 month process constitute "going rogue"?

As for the approval ratings, the fact that the titles haven't been removed yet aside, I really don't think it's more of an "ongoing" issue than the Herlufsholm issue. Once the titles have been removed at the conclusion of the year, it's final. Will it be reflected in the approval ratings in the coming 6-12 months? Probably. Will the public eventually get tired of hearing a handful of people mope about shifting titles? Absolutely. My guess is that, barring any major changes, the approval ratings will be pretty much back to normal after the festivities for Christian's 18th birthday next year.

 

[kimebear]

This whole thing has been so unnecessary in the first place. That's what I can't make sense of.

Joachim's children were never going to be able to pass on their princely titles anyway, so who cares if they have them for life? Barring that, an announcement should have been made at the same time that only the children of the heir to the throne would be styled prince/princess going forward, to keep Joachim's kids from feeling singled out. What a mess it continues to be.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Says who? There is no precedence or written legislation that says they (the boys, that is) would lose their titles bang upon marriage. The current precedence – set with Joachim's marriage to Alexandra, if I'm not mistaken – is that they must ask the monarch for permission to marry and if they obtain it, they'd get to keep their titles.

If that is indeed the case, a possible explanation for the removal of the titles could be that it would make it very awkward for the sitting monarch (whether QMII or Frederik) to have to deny permission to marry to avoid having to extend titles to Joachim's future children-in-law.

 

[kimebear]

Says who? There is no precedence or written legislation that says they (the boys, that is) would lose their titles bang upon marriage.

I didn't say anything about them losing the titles after marriage. I said that it shouldn't matter if they kept the titles because they wouldn't pass them on to their own children anyway, which they never could.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Again, says who? Had the boys obtained permission to marry and remained princes upon marriage, to the best of my knowledge, they'd absolutely be able to pass their titles on to their children.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Says who? There is no precedence or written legislation that says they (the boys, that is) would lose their titles bang upon marriage. The current precedence – set with Joachim's marriage to Alexandra, if I'm not mistaken – is that they must ask the monarch for permission to marry and if they obtain it, they'd get to keep their titles.

Their family press secretary; see the link in Muhler's post:

Some news from Alexandra's secretary:
https://www.bt.dk/royale/grevinde-a...afsloerer-dronningen-har-heller-ikke-talt-med

BT has talked to Helle von Wildenrath Løvgreen regarding Nikolai and Felix.
[...]

Helle von Wildenrath Løvgreen: "Nothing has changed. They are still incredibly sad. They don't understand why.
They have always known that the day would come, because when they married their titles would disappear. As Nikolai said, it would thus happen, when he himself wanted to and it would be on a happy day.
Instead they now feel punished and as if they have done something wrong."

Of course that does not necessarily imply there was going to be a break with precedent, as the understanding could very well have been that, following the example set with Prince Knud's children, Prince Joachim's children would not receive the monarch's official permission to marry, if they married.

 

[Alisa]

Communication is a 2 way street and while ideally Queen Margrethe should have spoken to her grandsons they could have requested to speak with her as well. Instead of speaking to her they chose to speak with the press.

 

[camelot23ca]

Yes, why is she talking to the press?! Why have a planned interview to air dirt on the family? What are they trying to gain? Since the title change is coming in a few weeks, are they trying to go all out to stop it?! This is pathetic. Especially when, they keep mentioning that they were going to lose their titles when they got married. Also, if I wanted answers from my family, I would call them myself because that is what adults do.

I find it a bit strange that she made a point of calling Nikolai and Felix (or did she mean Alexandra?) immediately before doing the interview to ask whether they'd spoken to the Queen yet. I thought the plan going forward was for this issue to be dealt with privately?

Obviously, Joachim and his family have permitted themselves to speak more freely than Queen Margrethe ever would. They can say there's been no communication and they feel sad without worrying that Margrethe will come back and say that - just for example - Nikolai and Felix rarely contacted her even before this happened and that she's offered to speak with them since the announcement and they can't be bothered. She's not willing or able to give the details of her side of the story, details that might paint her son and his family in a less flattering light.

 

[Izzie]

Maybe given that QMII chose to send a staff member to inform them of this decision instead of doing it herself and then put out a formal public statement...maybe...Nikolai and Felix didn't feel like they could just pick up the phone and call their grandmother...or their monarch (since that obviously was the priority) given she did not do the same. Maybe they should have sent a response back with her staff member that would have been on the same level as the initial message was delivered.

The Swedish Royals did this better...even the Norwegian Royal Couple were able to give an actual interview to explain the decision. Why is QMII deemed to above doing that? What makes her so different?

 

[ppetrica]

Communication is a 2 way street and while ideally Queen Margrethe should have spoken to her grandsons they could have requested to speak with her as well. Instead of speaking to her they chose to speak with the press.

Spot on, this summarizes everything.

I notice that commentators on this board tend to see this issue with titles in black-white only.
Well, life isn't black and white.
Each paper has 2 sides, and so far the public has been served (and not just once, but over and over again) with view of one side.

I guess, the old royal tradition of "never complain, never explain" can nowadays be exploited to the core to serve one's wishes or ambitions. It's happening in Montecito and now in Denmark/France.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Maybe given that QMII chose to send a staff member to inform them of this decision instead of doing it herself and then put out a formal public statement...maybe...Nikolai and Felix didn't feel like they could just pick up the phone and call their grandmother...or their monarch (since that obviously was the priority) given she did not do the same. Maybe they should have sent a response back with her staff member that would have been on the same level as the initial message was delivered.

The Swedish Royals did this better...even the Norwegian Royal Couple were able to give an actual interview to explain the decision. Why is QMII deemed to above doing that? What makes her so different?

Right, but they gain... what exactly, from continuing to mope to the press about it? It hasn't landed them a call from QMII yet. I doubt it will going forward. And I'm not saying QMII shouldn't be the one to reach out to them, but given that they clearly continue to be hurt by the decision, I think it would be much more fruitful to insist on an explanation.

And again, I think it's just important to keep in mind that we only have one side of the story. A side of the story that was told knowing the opposite side doesn't have the same opportunity to tell theirs.

 

[JR76]

Right, but they gain... what exactly, from continuing to mope to the press about it?

I've felt all along that the most blame for the fallout from this affair lie with the parents. If they wanted to put out a statement then fine, but what came afterwards was both unnecessary and harmful to their children. Had Joachim, Alexandra and Marie been able to think clearly they'd offered no more comments and handled the situation at home. They were the ones who made the issue an explosive one by going public and opened up their children to the "court of the streets" (as we say in Sweden). It would have been much better for them if their feelings had been seen too in private instead of in front of worldwide media. Nicolai, for instance, have always spoken lovingly about his grandmother and has, contrary to what some forum members think, always behaved himself well and with respect towards the monarchy, but I'm absolutely certain that he wouldn't have spoken to BT if his mother hadn't told him that it was a good idea.

 

[Mbruno]

Says who? There is no precedence or written legislation that says they (the boys, that is) would lose their titles bang upon marriage. The current precedence – set with Joachim's marriage to Alexandra, if I'm not mistaken – is that they must ask the monarch for permission to marry and if they obtain it, they'd get to keep their titles.

If that is indeed the case, a possible explanation for the removal of the titles could be that it would make it very awkward for the sitting monarch (whether QMII or Frederik) to have to deny permission to marry to avoid having to extend titles to Joachim's future children-in-law.

What the law actually says is that people in the line of succession have to obtain consent from the monarch given in the Council of State to get married, or else the person who is getting married and the descendants of the marriage forefeit their succession rights. And there is an unwritten precedent set by King Frederik IX that consent can be conditional. For example, in Princess Benedikte's case, when her marriage was consented to, a condition for her children to remain in the line of succession was that they be raised in Denmark, which ultimately did not happen. It is debatable, however, if conditional consent is legal or not.

In any case, the law does not say anything about titles, which are a personal prerogative of the monarch. In the past, all persons in the line of succession were princes and they would lose their titles when they were excluded from the succession due to an unconsented marriage. If Nikolai and Felix were not given official consent to marry, whether they remained princes or not, the main fact is that they would lose their succession rights according to the law, which is far worse in my opinion than losing an HH.

 

[Muhler]

I can't get my head around how badly this was handled and how abruptly these titles are removed. It makes little sense - unless..

I'm going to launch a theory, that I haven't even thought through yet and see if it's plausible or not.

One reason I can imagine for QMII to act like that is that she is annoyed. As in having lost her patience.

You may recall that Nikolai was involved in a row regarding lending his name and thus title to a commercial product - I can't even remember the details off hand. But that's beside the point here.

Okay, is it unreasonable to think that QMII issued a warning, saying: Don't use your title commercially again!
In what form that warning came is open to discussion, also who was warned, be that Nikolai, Alexandra and/or Joachim.
And is it unreasonable to think that QMII is less than impressed with Nikolai being a model? She can be pretty conservative.

Okay, it's no secret that Nikolai's title has been used repeatedly when he has been modelling and featured in various commercials and semi-commercial coverage of his life. We can of course debate whether Nikolai and/or his parents (mainly Alexandra) has had any influence on the editing, but they don't seem to have done too much to avoid hit title and royal status being mentioned. (In fact that's no doubt one of the main reasons he is even hired.) And that has happened repeatedly after the row mentioned above.

So, is it possible that QMII this year lost patience and decided to strip Joachim's children of their royal status, effective almost immediately, because their (mainly Nikolai) titles is still being used despite the hypothetical warning issued by QMII?
A: "Okay, you want a professional career. You shall have it then, and your royal status will be stripped in order for you to be "free" to pursue your professional career.

- I don't think QMII is a person who is in the habit of having people ignoring her misgivings.

Whether Nikolai, Alexandra and Joachim haven't been able to connect the dots, didn't understand a hint (in whatever form it came) or chose to shall we say circumnavigate it is an open question.
Or was it a lack of communication? QMII told someone about her misgivings. Likely Joachim, but perhaps also Alexandra and Nikolai, and for whatever reason the message wasn't passed on, or passed on clearly enough.

- It's still poor communication, because QMII could just have invited Nikolai over for tea and told him: One more "prince" next to your name when you pose or walk the catwalk, and your title is history! Get it!?!

What do you think?
Is this too far out?

 

[ppetrica]

What do you think?
Is this too far out?

No, it's not.
My theories (and I've had several) are very similar.
Joachim said that he knew about it since May.
So how did it all erupt this way in Autumn?
I think the Queen told them her decision and the reasons behind it.
And Joachim and his family probably reacted with anger. They probably refused to have any further discussions about it and believed that was the end to it.
And after several months the Queen simply became fed up.

 

[Izzie]

By what Muhler just outlined, Why does QMII get to use her title for her hobby of doing stage and movies scenery and costumes? Does she use her title when she does paintings? Those don't seem to be part of her official duties/responsibilities (even though some of it is posted on the official calendar for some reason)....those are side hustles (as some say)...not part of her constitutional role as the monarch.

 

[Muhler]

By what Muhler just outlined, Why does QMII get to use her title for her hobby of doing stage and movies scenery and costumes? Does she use her title when she does paintings? Those don't seem to be part of her official duties/responsibilities (even though some of it is posted on the official calendar for some reason)....those are side hustles (as some say)...not part of her constitutional role as the monarch.

It's not QMII's career and she is not making any money from it. Tivoli and the Royal Theater are national scenes. - So she is working to promote Danish culture. That it happens to be a passion of hers is just a benefit.

 

[Nordic]

It's not QMII's career and she is not making any money from it. Tivoli and the Royal Theater are national scenes. - So she is working to promote Danish culture. That it happens to be a passion of hers is just a benefit.

Looks to me, that it's the other way around: It's her passion and she has used a LOT of time on her passion over the years. My impression has always been, that she has used much more time on "her passion" than she has ever done on her children or grandchildren.
The "promoting Danish culture" comes second.

 

[camelot23ca]

I can't get my head around how badly this was handled and how abruptly these titles are removed. It makes little sense - unless..

I'm going to launch a theory, that I haven't even thought through yet and see if it's plausible or not.

One reason I can imagine for QMII to act like that is that she is annoyed. As in having lost her patience.

You may recall that Nikolai was involved in a row regarding lending his name and thus title to a commercial product - I can't even remember the details off hand. But that's beside the point here.

Okay, is it unreasonable to think that QMII issued a warning, saying: Don't use your title commercially again!
In what form that warning came is open to discussion, also who was warned, be that Nikolai, Alexandra and/or Joachim.
And is it unreasonable to think that QMII is less than impressed with Nikolai being a model? She can be pretty conservative.

Okay, it's no secret that Nikolai's title has been used repeatedly when he has been modelling and featured in various commercials and semi-commercial coverage of his life. We can of course debate whether Nikolai and/or his parents (mainly Alexandra) has had any influence on the editing, but they don't seem to have done too much to avoid hit title and royal status being mentioned. (In fact that's no doubt one of the main reasons he is even hired.) And that has happened repeatedly after the row mentioned above.

So, is it possible that QMII this year lost patience and decided to strip Joachim's children of their royal status, effective almost immediately, because their (mainly Nikolai) titles is still being used despite the hypothetical warning issued by QMII?
A: "Okay, you want a professional career. You shall have it then, and your royal status will be stripped in order for you to be "free" to pursue your professional career.

- I don't think QMII is a person who is in the habit of having people ignoring her misgivings.

Whether Nikolai, Alexandra and Joachim haven't been able to connect the dots, didn't understand a hint (in whatever form it came) or chose to shall we say circumnavigate it is an open question.
Or was it a lack of communication? QMII told someone about her misgivings. Likely Joachim, but perhaps also Alexandra and Nikolai, and for whatever reason the message wasn't passed on, or passed on clearly enough.

- It's still poor communication, because QMII could just have invited Nikolai over for tea and told him: One more "prince" next to your name when you pose or walk the catwalk, and your title is history! Get it!?!

What do you think?
Is this too far out?

I know Joachim has mentioned there having been an issue of communication, by which he presumably meant communication from his mother, but Joachim has an ex-wife with whom he has two young adult children, as well as his current wife and the two younger children. One question I’d have would be how effectively they all communicate with each other. Maybe Queen Margrethe, for whatever reason, feels more comfortable discussing official issues related to the Royal Family with her adult son instead of her barely adult grandchildren. But how effectively does Joachim then communicate with his sons? Is he able to be direct with them or does he try to soften things so they won’t get upset? Are he and Alexandra able to talk about things in advance and present a united front, or are the boys able to play one parent off against the other? Would Margrethe be able to meet with Joachim, Marie and Alexandra and have a productive discussion, or would things get sidetracked with bickering?

There are plenty of places where a breakdown in communication could have happened with this family, and not all of them originate with Queen Margrethe.

I think Queen Margrethe may have had some misgivings about Nikolai’s chosen career and how the title was used to promote it, but I doubt that alone would have prompted her decision, unless Nikolai was considering some opportunity we don’t know about that his grandmother decided was incompatible with. Danish royal title. It’s hard to imagine what that would be, though.

 

[Muhler]

I know Joachim has mentioned there having been an issue of communication, by which he presumably meant communication from his mother, but Joachim has an ex-wife with whom he has two young adult children, as well as his current wife and the two younger children. One question I’d have would be how effectively they all communicate with each other. Maybe Queen Margrethe, for whatever reason, feels more comfortable discussing official issues related to the Royal Family with her adult son instead of her barely adult grandchildren. But how effectively does Joachim then communicate with his sons? Is he able to be direct with them or does he try to soften things so they won’t get upset? Are he and Alexandra able to talk about things in advance and present a united front, or are the boys able to play one parent off against the other? Would Margrethe be able to meet with Joachim, Marie and Alexandra and have a productive discussion, or would things get sidetracked with bickering?

There are plenty of places where a breakdown in communication could have happened with this family, and not all of them originate with Queen Margrethe.

I think Queen Margrethe may have had some misgivings about Nikolai’s chosen career and how the title was used to promote it, but I doubt that alone would have prompted her decision, unless Nikolai was considering some opportunity we don’t know about that his grandmother decided was incompatible with. Danish royal title. It’s hard to imagine what that would be, though.

A case of a command becoming a recommendation, becoming an advise and ending up becoming a suggestion... perhaps? As it goes through the layers.

A scenario:
QMII may have had a talk with Joachim, saying using titles in a professional career is a no go!
I doubt however she is telling Joachim in a way, where he is standing to attention, answering: Yes, ma'am! It has been put in gentler way.
So Joachim may have interpreted that as a cautionary advice.
And let's say he discuss this with Alexandra, who has invested a good deal of interest in Nikolai's modeling career and is protective of her sons (that's hardly a secret and perfectly normal) and he may well have used a soft way of conveying the news, so that it becomes a recommendation to Alexandra.
Who will break the news to Nikolai - who interpret it as a kind piece of advise from farmor Margrethe. - And then keeps on doing what he has pretty much done all the time.

Except QMII was dead serious and she is noticing that Nikolai is bloody ignoring what she said! And now Felix is trying modelling as well! With their titles mentioned all over the place and being used for profit. Quite contrary to what she (thought) she clearly told Joachim.
Ooookay! So she strips Joachim's children of their royal titles, all of them, and now, so that they are "free" from the restraints of being royals. Problem solved.
So in a sense QMII was right, when she said that she had their best interests in mind - according to her viewpoint, that is.

- Again, a case of poor communication if things took place roughly as outlined in this scenario.
A natural thing, at least for me, would be to pick up the phone and ask Joachim why on earth Nikolai is ignoring my wishes. Before going to a more drastic step of basically sacking Joachim's children from the DRF.

 

[kimebear]

Nikolai is only a couple of years younger than QEII was when she became queen. He's no longer a child.

If QM has trouble seeing her 23 year old grandson as an adult she can talk directly to instead of going through his parents, especially about something that directly affects him for life, then that is her problem, not Nikolai's.

It's been months now, and for her to still not have talked to her grandsons directly about her decision is just plain cold.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

You may recall that Nikolai was involved in a row regarding lending his name and thus title to a commercial product - I can't even remember the details off hand. But that's beside the point here.

You are probably thinking of the car commercial in November 2018.

The TRF discussion of that incident began here:
https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...s-part-2-july-2018-a-45226-4.html#post2171994

Looks to me, that it's the other way around: It's her passion and she has used a LOT of time on her passion over the years. My impression has always been, that she has used much more time on "her passion" than she has ever done on her children or grandchildren.
The "promoting Danish culture" comes second.

But the discussion above was on the appropriateness of title usage, not the Queen's usage of her time. Muhler's point, I believe, was that although the Queen may be as personally passionate about her theatrical design projects as Prince Nikolai is about his modeling, the difference is that one is a nonprofit activity benefiting the nation and the other is a commercial activity benefiting a private career, and that is why title usage is more controversial and potentially problematic in relation to the latter.

 

[Nordic]

But the discussion above was on the appropriateness of title usage, not the Queen's usage of her time. Muhler's point, I believe, was that although the Queen may be as personally passionate about her theatrical design projects as Prince Nikolai is about his modeling, the difference is that one is a nonprofit activity benefiting the nation and the other is a commercial activity benefiting a private career, and that is why title usage is more controversial and potentially problematic in relation to the latter.

I know what the discussion was about and what Muhler's point was. I still wrote what I did.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

There is no any problem at all. The Queen used her royal prerogative to organize her House to her own will and pleasure. For the sustainability and durability of the institution she considered that it was wise to limit the use of royal titles. No more, no less.

That several Monpezats at the pheriphery of the royal family ventilated their disappointment: soit. The proverb says it: The dogs bark, the caravan goes on. ("You are too insignificant to change the process").