Jean, Comte de Paris, Head of the Royal House of France, Wife & Family 1, Feb 2019 -


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Stefan said:
But why did he not make sure that future Heads of the Family are involved with the foundation and or can use the Items placed into it.
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Indeed. It looks like an equivalent of the Bernadotte or Orange-Nassau foundations not working for the Bearer of the Crown but just for their own existence.

Imagine King Carl XVI Gustaf or King Willem-Alexander to be refused to use properties placed in these foundations, while that was the core essence of creating these vehicles, in the first place.

I do not know how it is in Sweden, but in the Netherlands the Bearer of the Crown is the beheerder (manager) of the most important foundations. Maybe that was a detail overlooked when Prince Jean's grandfather created this foundation?
 
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I thought the elder Henri, Count of Paris didn't want his eldest son, the younger Henri, anywhere near the foundation or to be able to do anything. That is why it is set up the way it is.
 
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tihkon2 said:
I thought the elder Henri, Count of Paris didn't want his eldest son, the younger Henri, anywhere near the foundation or to be able to do anything. That is why it is set up the way it is.
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Henri d'Orléans managed to dwindle the once enormous fortune of his House. And if that is not enough, out of pettiness he managed to obstruct what was left.
:ermm:

But if the Château d'Amboise or the Domaine Royal de Dreux are not available for the Maison d'Orléans, what is then the purpose? To serve as museums?
 
Henri sr. was a very bitter man. Didn't he tell one of his sons that he would leave the family nothing but hate/hatred IIRC?

Due to bad investments he lost a great part of his own wealth and of that of his nephew prince Michael of Greece. It is a great pity that he did not secured a position of the head of the family in the foundation.
 
Reminds me a bit about the Esterhazy foundation.There the childless Fürst Paul left everything to his wife who created one or several foundations into which she put the Belongings. she then later named one of her nephews from her Family as manager ofthe foundations and he later removed the present Früst and his son from the Board of the foundation .
 
The foundation was created to prevent the Orleans historical heritage from being fragmented through inheritance and auctions. And certainly not to support the new Count of Paris and his family.

If the Foundation were to be deleted, the assets would be shared between 9 inheritors from the Count of Paris (Henri) (+some cousins who accepted to give their shares to the Foundation). The 1/9 share would have to be divided between the 4 remaining children ot the last Count of Paris. So all the assets would need to be sold, as it happens in 2015 with the furniture.

The Foundation has a public status and is managed partly by the Ministry of the interior and as such receives state funds.

There is no justification for Jean, who is a minority heir among a multitude of others, to be able to enjoy the assets without compensation even though the estates are also state-funded.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Henri d'Orléans managed to dwindle the once enormous fortune of his House. And if that is not enough, out of pettiness he managed to obstruct what was left.
:ermm:

But if the Château d'Amboise or the Domaine Royal de Dreux are not available for the Maison d'Orléans, what is then the purpose? To serve as museums?
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What is the law in France like in that respect? I know that, in Spain, several major noble houses such as the Dukes of Alba have had their residences and art collections declared as "properties of cultural interest" that are placed under family foundations. That allows them to enjoy certain privileges like tax exemptions in exchange for keeping the sites open to the public ("museums" so to speak in a broader sense). Is something similar possible in France?
 
Mbruno said:
What is the law in France like in that respect? I know that, in Spain, several major noble houses such as the Dukes of Alba have had their residences and art collections declared as "properties of cultural interest" that are placed under family foundations. That allows them to enjoy certain privileges like tax exemptions in exchange for keeping the sites open to the public ("museums" so to speak in a broader sense). Is something similar possible in France?
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The assets were given to a non-profit organization (Fondation Saint-Louis) created by the former Count of Paris and intended to carry out a work of general interest and not-for-profit, i.e promoting History. The board includes representative of the States. That organization owns assets, rights and resources irrevocably assigned to the realization of such a work.
 
titiromi said:
The assets were given to a non-profit organization (Fondation Saint-Louis) created by the former Count of Paris and intended to carry out a work of general interest and not-for-profit, i.e promoting History. The board includes representative of the States. That organization owns assets, rights and resources irrevocably assigned to the realization of such a work.
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What is then the arrangement for the late Prince Henri jr. and Prince Jean to live at Dreux?
 
From what I've read permission was given by his grand father for his mother, the duchess of Montpensier to live there after her husband had left her and her children (Jean being one of them).
 
Prince Henri never lived in Dreux. The arrangement was for the Duchess of Montpensier to be able to use Dreux for week-ends and vacations and that’s all. That autorisation was given by Prince Henri senior (he was president of the foundation back at that time as opposed to honorary president which is the position held by Prince Jean). This right to use Dreux during holidays and weekends by the Duchess of Montpensier is recognized by the foundation but not the right to live permanently there for free for Jean. If you read the last article of Parisien about this affair, you would see that even Prince Henri junior opposed to Jean settling in Dreux.

«*I hear you are moving to Dreux," wrote the father to his son in a disapproving tone of voice. If your mother (of whom he was divorced) had a right of use over the "presbytery" for her entire life, this right does not apply to our children. I would have preferred that you had informed me of your intentions in person. And the father to ask his son "to remove without delay the objects or furniture" that he has "already deposited in the presbytery illegally". This is in his "interest and that of the Saint-Louis Foundation".
Extract of the article that can be found here :https://www.leparisien.fr/faits-div...e-de-la-famille-royale-06-02-2021-8423597.php
 
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The article is sadly behind a paywall but thanks for the quoted excerpts, it is good to hear the other side of the story.

It is true, both Henri's did not live at Dreux nor at Amboise. I believe Henri sr. lived in an appartment building with his mistress near Dreux, in Cherisy. His wife did live in a pavillion in Amboise though she spent much of the time visiting her many children.
 
titiromi said:
Prince Henri never lived in Dreux. The arrangement was for the Duchess of Montpensier to be able to use Dreux for week-ends and vacations and that’s all. That autorisation was given by Prince Henri senior (he was president of the foundation back at that time as opposed to honorary president which is the position held by Prince Jean). This right to use Dreux during holidays and weekends by the Duchess of Montpensier is recognized by the foundation but not the right to live permanently there for free for Jean. If you read the last article of Parisien about this affair, you would see that even Prince Henri junior opposed to Jean settling in Dreux.

«*I hear you are moving to Dreux," wrote the father to his son in a disapproving tone of voice. If your mother (of whom he was divorced) had a right of use over the "presbytery" for her entire life, this right does not apply to our children. I would have preferred that you had informed me of your intentions in person. And the father to ask his son "to remove without delay the objects or furniture" that he has "already deposited in the presbytery illegally". This is in his "interest and that of the Saint-Louis Foundation".
Extract of the article that can be found here :https://www.leparisien.fr/faits-div...e-de-la-famille-royale-06-02-2021-8423597.php
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It is quite a bit shocking. From once of France's most wealthy families to an almost "homeless" state.



In comparison with his "colleagues" in Romania, Germany, Serbia, Portugal, the Prince Jean d'Orléans seem disadvantaged in arrangements for the former royal family. (All to own mismanagement by former generations).
 
Compared to his siblings and cousins, he was given an advantage: he inherited all the shares his grandmother held in the forest of Nouvion (so that he could afford to live) but it seems that he sold his shares last year.
His father lived in a Parisian flat owned by the foundation in Paris at the end of his life but he paid rent.

If a foundation was not created, at the time of the death of Prince Henri senior, major taxes would have had to be paid, which could have amounted to 45% for inheritance over 1,45millions. What is left would have been split between the nine children. Prince Henri junior’s shares would then also be taxed once he dies and be split between his 4 remaining children. Let’s say that Jean would still not be able to live in the domaine royal de Dreux, the plebs :))) not be able to visit the place and the State not to fund it. So it’s a win win situation.

We often criticized junior royal siblings for not working but Jean is not even part of a reigning family, is the father of 5 children (!!!), does not work (nor his wife Philomena) and relies on assets not owned by him to house his large family for free. The Napoleon and the Bourbon heirs are both working and they are richer than the Orléans.
 
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titiromi said:
Compared to his siblings and cousins, he was given an advantage: he inherited all the shares his grandmother held in the forest of Nouvion (so that he could afford to live) but it seems that he sold his shares last year.
His father lived in a Parisian flat owned by the foundation in Paris at the end of his life but he paid rent.

If a foundation was not created, at the time of the death of Prince Henri senior, major taxes would have to be paid, which could have amounted to 45% for inheritance over 1,45millions. What is left would have been split between the nine children. Prince Henri junior’s shares would then also be taxed once he dies and be split between his 4 remaining children. Let’s say that Jean would still not be able to live in the domaine royal de Dreux, the plebs :))) not be able to visit the place and the State not to fund it. So it’s a win win situation.

We often criticized junior royal sibling for not working but Jean is not even part of a reigning family, is the father of 5 children (!!!), does not work (neither his wife Philomena) and relies on assets not owned by him to house his large family. The Napoleon and the Bourbon heirs are both working and they are richer that the Orléans.
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Perfectly said, I completely agree with you...
 
titiromi said:
Compared to his siblings and cousins, he was given an advantage: he inherited all the shares his grandmother held in the forest of Nouvion (so that he could afford to live) but it seems that he sold his shares last year.
His father lived in a Parisian flat owned by the foundation in Paris at the end of his life but he paid rent.

If a foundation was not created, at the time of the death of Prince Henri senior, major taxes would have had to be paid, which could have amounted to 45% for inheritance over 1,45millions. What is left would have been split between the nine children. Prince Henri junior’s shares would then also be taxed once he dies and be split between his 4 remaining children. Let’s say that Jean would still not be able to live in the domaine royal de Dreux, the plebs :))) not be able to visit the place and the State not to fund it. So it’s a win win situation.

We often criticized junior royal siblings for not working but Jean is not even part of a reigning family, is the father of 5 children (!!!), does not work (nor his wife Philomena) and relies on assets not owned by him to house his large family for free. The Napoleon and the Bourbon heirs are both working and they are richer than the Orléans.
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What is then the source of income for Prince Jean to maintain his family, education, representation, etc.?
 
His shares in the Forest of Nouvion (until last year), very generous public welfare especially for big families, annual contribution to his association "Gens de France" to "support the action of the royal house" -> (https://www.helloasso.com/associati...nir-les-actions-de-la-maison-royale-de-france).

When you don't pay rents and charges (such as fuel oil, for example, which he refused to pay a few years ago) since 2010, that's enough.

Remember also until last september, his children were homeschooled (appart Gaston).
 
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Thanks. From his Instagram I learned the family is back on the Royal Domain in Dreux. No idea how to combine that with his objections against the Fondation Saint-Louis.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Thanks. From his Instagram I learned the family is back on the Royal Domain in Dreux. No idea how to combine that with his objections against the Fondation Saint-Louis.
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They are maybe there for the winter holidays (it lasts 2 weeks) and given that the house is bestowed to the Duchess of Montpensier for weekends and holidays, there is no problem.

I also understand that they left there some furniture and animals and mandated a friend to visit often the place. They move out because they sense the foundation became more and more unwelcoming.
 
The Count of Paris wrote :
Deepest condolences to her Majesty the Queen and all the Royal Family on behalf of the French Royal Family .....
 
What a pity we are not able to read the whole of it because we have not subscribed and the automatic translation does "open".
 
:previous:

They have five children. Gaston (2009), Antoinette (2012), Louise-Marguerite (2014), Joseph (2016) and Jacinthe (2018).
 
As an animal lover, I am always fascinated by the sight of HRH's dog. It is HUGE!:eek:?
 
Count of Paris, wished a pleasant back-to-school period for all the children of France and accompanied his message with a photo of his daughters, Princesses Antoinette and Louis-Marguerite


https://www.instagram.com/p/CTUXv3tsblB/
 
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