Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna: June 2008-

[Artemisia]

House of Romanov: the Narishkin treasure belongs to a museum *
The House of Romanov released a statement stating that they believe the treasure found at the mansion of the Narishkin noble family should be stored in a museum and not returned to the descendants of the Imperial Family.
"We hope that the will be transferred to a museum," - said the director of the Office of the House of Romanov, Alexander Zakatov.
"The Head of the House of Romanov, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, has repeatedly stated that she is against restitutions, as were her father and grandfather - Heads of the Imperial House in exile. She believes that the return of any property may endanger civilian peace in the country".
"The Grand Duchess believes that finds like this put should be public property, and belong to museums to be accessible to all Russians so that the can admire and be proud of the beauty of works of Russian Masters." - said the official representative of the House of Romanov.

- Article
- Google translation


Apparently, the descendants of the Narishkin House do not agree with the Grand Duchess.

The last of Narishkins is fighting for the treasure
84-year-old Nathalie Narishkin - the last direct descendant emigrated Russian princes - is going to fight for the treasure found in the St. Petersburg mansion, which until belonged to her family before the revolution. According to her, she learnt of the unique discovery in the Narishkin mansion from the newspapers. Nathalie Narishkin told that Colonel Somov, whose documents were discovered together with the treasure, was her uncle; he was married to the youngest daughter of Prince Narishkin - her father's sister.

"I am the last representative of that branch of Narishkins, and the last one who bears the name. I am not married and have no children. I am 84 years old, so with my death the direct line of the Narishkin Princes will cease to exist. The fact is, the treasure that was found rightfully belongs to the two of us - me and my niece Natalie. My grandfather, Cyril Narishkin, had two children: my father and my aunt Irene, who was born much later. Natalia is Irene's daughter; she is now 46 years old and lives in Geneva. The two of us are the last direct heirs and the two of us are going to claim the treasure found at our ancestral house.

- Article
- Google translation


I find it odd Maria Vladimirovna chose to interfere with this affair since it is, frankly speaking, none of her business. I may agree that findings of such historical value must end up in museums, however it is also unfair to deprive the rightful heirs of their inheritance.


* For those of you who have never heard this story, at the end of March, during the restoration of the Trubetsky-Narishkin mansion, a secret room was found, containing over 2,000 silver items - all in excellent condition. The finding is so unique and of such great historical value that so far no one has been able to give even an approximate estimate how much the treasure is worth. Most probably, we are talking about millions of dollars at the very least.

 

[NGalitzine]

The Narishkin silver does not really seem to have anything to do with her. I suppose she thinks she will curry favor with the Russian authorities when she makes these pronouncements.

 

[COUNTESS]

With this edict, she should donate everthing she has that belonged to previous Romanovs, that should belong to the people. Frankly, she may belong in a museum.

 

[AristoCat]

The Narishkin silver does not really seem to have anything to do with her. I suppose she thinks she will curry favor with the Russian authorities when she makes these pronouncements.

What is she thinking, currying favor with the Russian authorities? These are the same authorities that would end up eliminating her and her family if at any point they felt like it. It's not like this is going to have her end up getting a throne and this is incredibly crass of her.

She believes that the return of any property may endanger civilian peace in the country".

How stupid, this was personal property of Nathalie and she has a right to it; it's not like she's so young that she would end up having it for a long time. Nathalie should be humored and Maria should just back off.

 

[TomBert]

It is hardly an "edict" issued by the Grand Duchess. The linked article takes you to Interfax, an agency that often publishes pieces on the Grand Duchess. It seems to me that discussions have been taking place on where the items should go and the Chancellery of the Head of the Imperial House was asked for an opinion. Through her spokesman the Grand Duchess gave one. Not exactly earth shattering or controversial, but never let that get in the way of an opportunity to pick on the Grand Duchess.

 

[NGalitzine]

^^^^
If that was the case, "no comment" or "this does not involve the House of Romanov" would have been more appropriate answers instead of offering an opinion on something that involves another family, not hers.

 

[melall]

It was the answer to announcement by representative of Romanov Family Association to the «Vzglyad» newspaper ( on russian ). Where he told that the Grand duchess calls for a restitution and to return of this treasure by Naryshkin.

 

[Al_bina]

I highly doubt that the Russian government would ever restitute anything to any Russian noble or well-to-do families whose property was nationalised. They would not like to set a legal precedent.

 

[kell]

didnt maria in herited like a found treasure trove herself which was spilt between among the sruving members of her family ie aunts and all

 

[Artemisia]

She did.
When the jewellery collection belonging to Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna was found in Swedish Embassy, the jewels were auctioned and proceeds divided between the descendants of the Grand Duchess, including Maria Vladimirovna (who, I believe, got nearly half).

I found a blog entry from TRF that deals with those jewels, though there is no mention of a subsequent auction.
It can probably be found in Romanov and Russians Jewels thread.

 

[TomBert]

Thanks for the background Melall. Here is a google translation of the part about Grand Duchess Maria.

VIEW: What do think about it the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna (part of the head of monarchists regard it as the Russian Imperial House - approx. LOOK)?

IA: Our association, which includes the Romanov descendants around the world, of course, consider it a member of the family, but it does not recognize any special rights of the Emperor. With regard to restitution, Maria, in my opinion, is not expressed its position, and the people who surround her. No offense to them will be discussed, but I sometimes call them "Soviet nobility." Here they are prone to this. And those gentlemen, whom I represent, in general, share the view that I presented.​

So the Grand Duchess was responding to comments made by a representative of the Romanov Family Association. Of course it is not a proper translation, but he seems to be saying that Grand Duchess Maria has not made her position on restitution known (implying that she does support it?. But as the Grand Duchess's spokesman says this is not the case and the Grand Duchess clearly does not support restitution. I also wonder what is meant by "Soviet nobility"?

Just shows that before getting all hot under the collar and slagging off the Grand Duchess it might be a good idea to check the facts.

 

[Artemisia]

The proper translation of the parts concerning Maria Vladimirovna and the position of the Romanov Family association (Google can be quite confusing sometimes).

- On the whole, how high is the "demand" for restitution - return of their property - among the immigrated Russian nobility?
- I wouldn't call it high at the moment. let me remind you that a lot of immigrants supported and fought for the Soviet Union during the war (note: he means World War II). That's because even abroad they always remained Russians first and foremost. Hitler once offered Prince Nicholas Romanov - the Head of the Romanov Family Association whom I represent - the Serbian Crown because his grandmother was a Princess of Montenegro. But he didn't consider the offer for a moment! That's because he is a Russian. In other words, any demands for restitutions are hardly supported by the "old immigrants" - immigrants of the first wave (note: meaning those who immigrated during or immediately after the revolution).

- What is Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's position on this question?
- Out association, which includes Romanov descendants across the world, undoubtedly considers her part of the family, but does not recognise her possessing any special imperial rights (note: meaning they don't recognise her as Head of the House of Romanov, or pretender to the Imperial Throne). As for the question of restitutions, in my opinion Maria Vladimirovna expresses not as much her position, but that of those surrounding her. No offence meant but I often call them "soviet nobility" (note: meaning not proper or unethical nobility). They are probably inclined to accept restitutions. The nobility I represent do, in their majority, share the viewpoint I just expressed.


I wish both the Romanov Family Association and the House of Romanov stayed out of this; the issue doesn't concern them in any shape or form.

 

[kell]

She did.
When the jewellery collection belonging to Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna was found in Swedish Embassy, the jewels were auctioned and proceeds divided between the descendants of the Grand Duchess, including Maria Vladimirovna (who, I believe, got nearly half).

I found a blog entry from TRF that deals with those jewels, though there is no mention of a subsequent auction.
It can probably be found in Romanov and Russians Jewels thread.

just stateing it should have been a no comment on this matter for her and the family

 

[Alexey 1904]

No one is making fun or slagging the Grand Duchess. Artemisia's original post I guess was sadly misquoted by the article saying that the GD is against 'restitution'. All the other posts dealing with the story were honest opinions. You're right, TomBert, it is nothing to get 'hot under the collar' about.

 

[Artemisia]

It was hardly a misquote; I translated, word by word, what the official representative of the House of Romanov had to say on the topic.
Among other things, the said representative confirmed that the Grand Duchess is opposed to restitutions, as were her father and grandfather.

 

[branchg]

Among other things, the said representative confirmed that the Grand Duchess is opposed to restitutions, as were her father and grandfather.

Maria can express her will as the Head of the Imperial House when speaking of the imperial family, but private individuals, whether descendants of noblility or not, certainly can and have pursued claims for personal property seized by the Communists without compensation. Not only in Russia, but in many other former Warsaw Pact nations.

Otherwise, she is merely commenting on something which is really none of her business.

 

[Benjamin]

Grand Duchess Maria and Grand Duke George attended the wedding of Prince Rudolf of Liechtenstein in Istanbul on 20 April.

On 23 April, the Grand Duchess and Grand Duke arrived in St. Petersburg to take part in events relating to the 20th anniversary of the passing of their late father and grandfather, Grand Duke Vladimir, Head of the Imperial House from 1938-1992.

The next day Grand Duchess Maria and Grand Duke George attended services at the Sts. Peter & Paul Cathedral.

On April 25 they met with Georgy Poltavchenko, Governor of St. Petersburg and on the 26th there were discussions regarding the celebrations to be held next year to mark 400 years since the Romanovs came to the throne.

The Grand Duchess and Grand Duke departed St. Petersburg for Madrid on April 27.

Source: Communique from the Imperial House

 

[NGalitzine]

On April 25 they met with Georgy Poltavchenko, Governor of St. Petersburg and on the 26th there were discussions regarding the celebrations to be held next year to mark 400 years since the Romanovs came to the throne.


Source: Communique from the Imperial House

If she comes back in 5 more years she can join the celebrations for the overthrow of the Romanovs. It makes as much sense as celebrating 400 years of a family that was overthrown nearly 100 years ago.

 

[COUNTESS]

And didn't treat the people kindly. A romantic notion of a terrible time gone by, except for the Romanovs and the nobility.

 

[Alexey 1904]

I didn't say you were misquoted, Artemisia. I said the writers of the article made it sound like you were misquoted and made it sound like you didn't know what you were talking about, which I think you did know very well. That's all.

 

[Artemisia]

I didn't say you were misquoted, Artemisia. I said the writers of the article made it sound like you were misquoted and made it sound like you didn't know what you were talking about, which I think you did know very well. That's all.

My apologies; language barrier can sometimes create unfortunate misunderstandings.

 

[Alexey 1904]

You're TOO funny, NGalitizine! Don't give the Romanov haters any ideas about what to do in 5 OR 6 years.

 

[Alexey 1904]

Don't worry about it, Artemisia. I can't read, let alone translate Russian. It just seemed that something was wrong with what you said about the article or what the article writers said, or maybe I didn't understand it. So, Maria is against retitution of the monarchy? I guess most of the citizens of that country seem to be, too. What kind of 'celebrations' do you think will be held in March 2013 in Russia?

 

[Artemisia]

Don't worry about it, Artemisia. I can't read, let alone translate Russian. It just seemed that something was wrong with what you said about the article or what the article writers said, or maybe I didn't understand it. So, Maria is against retitution of the monarchy? I guess most of the citizens of that country seem to be, too. What kind of 'celebrations' do you think will be held in March 2013 in Russia?

Maria Vladimirovna, as well as all members of the House and Family of Romanov, are against restitutions (returning property to their former owners); their view is that what was left behind now belongs to the state. However, on the issue of the treasure found, there seems to be a division of opinions - not between the Romanovs (both the Imperial House and the Romanov Family association voiced opinion those pieces belong to museums, not private individuals), but among exiled Russian nobility; most seem to be of opinion that the treasure undoubtedly belongs to the Narishkins and it is up to them to decide what to do with it.

Regarding the upcoming Jubilee, there are actually going to be quite extensive celebrations. The main celebrations will be held in St. Petersburg and Moscow. The Governor of St. Petersburg, Georgiy Poltavchenko, has already had meetings with Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna regarding the celebrations, which suggests she is going to play some role in them.

A couple of articles on the topic.
Article 1 - Google translation 1
Article 2 - Google translation 2

 

[Benjamin]

Maria is against property restitution, but she is certainly not against the return of the monarchy...should it be the will of God and the wish of the people.

 

[Benjamin]

In light of the 400th anniversary since the ending of the Time of Troubles, the Russian Imperial House Foundation has been created to promote charitable donations for the advancement of certain social causes:

RUSSIAN IMPERIAL HOUSE | CHARITY FOUNDATION

Also, more information regarding celebratory events in 2013:

http://romanovs-great-dynasty.com

 

[COUNTESS]

More than they did when they were in power.

 

[Ceallach]

It was brought up in the Romanov Russian Jewels forums in 2009 by Marsel that Maria got 1/4 of the proceeds from the sale of Maria Pavlovna's jewels found in Sweden. The other 3/4 was divided between the other descendants. Not sure what they sold for but it was more than the 2 million euros presale estimate. So Maria made probably between 1/2 to a million euros. Sounds like she is in favour of it to me.

 

[Artemisia]

It was brought up in the Romanov Russian Jewels forums in 2009 by Marsel that Maria got 1/4 of the proceeds from the sale of Maria Pavlovna's jewels found in Sweden. The other 3/4 was divided between the other descendants. Not sure what they sold for but it was more than the 2 million euros presale estimate. So Maria made probably between 1/2 to a million euros. Sounds like she is in favour of it to me.

Here is that blog entry by Marsel.
The jewels in question were found in Swedish Foreign Office's storage rooms and had belong to Grand Duchess Maria Pavlova. The proceeds from the sale were divided between the descendants, with Maria Vladimirovna indeed getting 1/4.

I think the main difference between the cases is that those jewels were found outside Russia and could thus be claimed to their undisputed owners. Whereas the latest treasure discovery was made in Russia and as such the Russian Government may claim it as belonging to state.

 

[Alexey 1904]

Well, I think it is baloney that Maria V. is against property restitution. Why does she think that property belonging to the Narishkins should be in a museum when there are two descendents left of the original family? She would want any Romanov property that belonged to her father returned to her. I'm sure she will be very involved in the celebrations next year. I don't think the people of Russia want the restoration of the monarchy though.I don't know how she expects to get money sent to her '2012 chairty', either.