General News about the Sussex Family, Part Two: April-August 2020

[Betsypaige]

Rebecca English explaining the financial arrangements of the Duke and Duchess, being left "cash-strapped" after they were "unexpectedly stripped" of their UK security:

Prince Harry in particular "had believed up until the very last minute that he would be allowed to keep" the Metropolitan Police team due to his position in the line of succession and his former military role.

Looks like the whole exit was too rushed to nut out these very basic things.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ry-Meghan-Markles-Frogmore-deal-revealed.html

Then they thought they could be financially independent - meaning no help from Charles - if they had the the Police security? I don't know anything about how this works, but didn't Harry consider at all that his living outside the UK would actually render his position in line of succession/former military role MOOT?

I sure hope that he and Meghan have a good relationship with his father -not just because for obvious reasons, but because they had to go ask him for a HUGE layout of funds..........and, since they will need constant security, Charles is going to have to support them forever.

 

[Sun Lion]

For Rebecca English to report that the UK Home Secretary had to step in and force the Duke and Duchess to back down, sounds like there was some serious to and fro going on.

And some very high level leaking going on against the couple. This is embarrassing for them.

 

[QueenMathilde]

Then they thought they could be financially independent - meaning no help from Charles - if they had the the Police security? I don't know anything about how this works, but didn't Harry consider at all that his living outside the UK would actually render his position in line of succession/former military role MOOT?

I sure hope that he and Meghan have a good relationship with his father -not just because for obvious reasons, but because they had to go ask him for a HUGE layout of funds..........and, since they will need constant security, Charles is going to have to support them forever.

They are not relevant to the average person. But for whatever reason they are very important to the Hollywood crowd and Silicon valley. They aren't looking for us little people to support them they are counting on the Tyler Perry's of the world to do it. So they don't care about us.

 

[Betsypaige]

For Rebecca English to report that the UK Home Secretary had to step in and force the Duke and Duchess to back down, sounds like there was some serious to and fro going on.

And some very high level leaking going on against the couple. This is embarrassing for them.

Absolutely. That’s incredibly humiliating ...and, as far as I’m concerned, another mark against the couple. Fighting for their own security to be paid after they chose to leave the BRF? Their sense of entitlement is mind boggling.

 

[KellyAtLast]

Entitled and spoiled. Charles like the Queen will just throw money to their second son and it will make them even more entitled. And the fact that it took the UK Home Secretary to put Henry in his place instead of the queen and charles shows they are weak and spineless.

 

[miss whirley]

Entitled and spoiled. Charles like the Queen will just throw money to their second son and it will make them even more entitled. And the fact that it took the UK Home Secretary to put Henry in his place instead of the queen and charles shows they are weak and spineless.

To me it sounds like QE and Charles had already explained to him that his demands were unreasonable and unworkable but he didn't believe them. So in a state of (paranoia? denial?) it took the Home Secretary saying no for him to understand that the BRF weren't punishing him arbitrarily, they were just telling him the truth about the consequences of his choices.

 

[poppy7]

To be fair. What did Harry know about any life? He didn't think this though. He thought 'he' mattered. When of course the role matters. Must have been a bit of shock. Problem is with all this is that the Sussexes leak that puff article to the Times and the others go fishing to get their own article. You can't win. Basically Harry is just the same as many adult children in privileged families who don't work. I wouldn't even mind if he came from a wealthy family and did a relatively low wage job that was good for society: teaching, charity, social care and got a bit of monetary contribution for a home etc because those people are contributing to society but obviously they are used to a more expensive way of living. Starting a foundation when you don't have the funds is a bit extreme. He could start small and get involved with military charities in the USA while still lending his support to his old organisations.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Entitled and spoiled. Charles like the Queen will just throw money to their second son and it will make them even more entitled. And the fact that it took the UK Home Secretary to put Henry in his place instead of the queen and charles shows they are weak and spineless.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but I really don’t understand how you got to that conclusion.

 

[KellyAtLast]

To be fair. What did Harry know about any life? He didn't think this though. He thought 'he' mattered. When of course the role matters. Must have been a bit of shock. Problem is with all this is that the Sussexes leak that puff article to the Times and the others go fishing to get their own article. You can't win. Basically Harry is just the same as many adult children in privileged families who don't work. I wouldn't even mind if he came from a wealthy family and did a relatively low wage job that was good for society: teaching, charity, social care and got a bit of monetary contribution for a home etc because those people are contributing to society but obviously they are used to a more expensive way of living. Starting a foundation when you don't have the funds is a bit extreme. He could start small and get involved with military charities in the USA while still lending his support to his old organisations.

You would think fighting in Afghanistan would have humbled him and made him feel grateful for what he has and how lucky he is. And also serving in war torn country would have given him a reality check and a privilege check. But I guess he learned nothing from his time in the Afghanistan.
Instead he becomes entitled and wanting more when he already has millions himself selfish. And shameless I might add.

 

[Heavs]

Beatrice and Eugenie were in Harry's current position in the succession until the little Cambridges came along and their full time Met protection stopped when they reached 18 and their father had to start paying for it.

If he thought they could move to a different country, stop working for the family (except the tours and other bits they liked) attempt to make their own fortune commercially and live in massive houses lent to them by friends etc and the UK tax payer would be happy to foot their security bill forever, he's living in cloud cuckoo land. There was always going to be enormous backlash against that even if his family had wanted to grant them that.

 

[Fem]

Rebecca English explaining the financial arrangements of the Duke and Duchess, being left "cash-strapped" after they were "unexpectedly stripped" of their UK security:

Prince Harry in particular "had believed up until the very last minute" that he would be allowed to keep the Metropolitan Police team due to his position in the line of succession and his former military role.

The UK Home Secretary had to step in and force Harry and Meghan to back down after Canada refused to foot the bill.

Looks like the whole exit was too rushed to nut out these very basic things.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ry-Meghan-Markles-Frogmore-deal-revealed.html

I don't even know what to think about it, there's this little voice in my head that tells me this can't really be true, but damn, it seems like these two are just dragging themselves through the mud with no help from the big, bad tabloids...

Why? Why would anyone think that the british public will foot the bill on their security when they just packed up and left..? IF Prince Charles is footing a £4M pounds security per year for them so that they could pay 18,000£ per month for Frogmore Cottage (that, let's be honest, does not even cover the "rent" part, forget about paying off the renovation), then this is the same dangerous pattern of HMQ and Prince Andrew. Just allowed to do anything, anywhere and the parent will always be there to pay for it all.

This is awful. I'm sad for the whole BRF, but especially Prince Charles and Duke of Cambridge. What a mess. I'm afraid of Prince Charles paying for the Sussexes lifestyle and not paying as well. I can't even believe we're just two years away from the wedding.

 

[Betsypaige]

You’re entitled to your opinion, but I really don’t understand how you got to that conclusion.

I can’t figure out how Charles and the Queen have thrown money at Harry; I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone. Charles was never going to refuse his son security...This is on Harry and Meghan. Their desire for financial security was based on ridiculous assumptions, and after being scolded by the government, had to go hand in hat to Charles.

I DO so feel for Charles;

 

[muriel]

I can’t figure out how Charles and the Queen have thrown money at Harry; I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone. Charles was never going to refuse his son security...

I also think Charles would have, very wisely IMO, agreed to provide a reasonable financial package for Harry for some time (perhaps substantially more than 1 year) to ensure that Harry is not forced to seek financial support from any sources less than kosher, which could prove to be a big embarrassment for the BRF in time.

 

[Denville]

I think a lot people outside Britain might be surprised at how little interest many people actually have in any members of the royal family in this country. It's very much a minority interest. Nothing wrong with that of course but for many Britons the royal family are just not that relevant. Put another way, how many out of the nearly 70 million in the UK actually read all these media articles?

Yes I agree, that many people from outside the UK don't realise that the majority of people don't take that big an interest..
they read some articles but its just a bit of light reading. Only a minority take a big interest, read everything, discuss it, read books, maybe go to see them. When M and H were back in March, I heard 2 people discussing the reports in the paper and it was clear that they didn't usually take much interest in M and H, didn't know that much about them but occasionally read something.. and were like "Oh so they're stopping doing royal duties are they? Well, that's that then" Very much a who really cares attitude

 

[Betsypaige]

I also think Charles would have, very wisely IMO, agreed to provide a reasonable financial package for Harry for some time (perhaps substantially more than 1 year) to ensure that Harry is not forced to seek financial support from any sources less than kosher, which could prove to be a big embarrassment for the BRF in time.

That’s a good point. Charles, HM and William are level-headed. I’m sorry to say that Harry lives in a fantasy world inhabited by only he and Meghan.

 

[miss whirley]

Beatrice and Eugenie were in Harry's current position in the succession until the little Cambridges came along and their full time Met protection stopped when they reached 18 and their father had to start paying for it.

If he thought they could move to a different country, stop working for the family (except the tours and other bits they liked) attempt to make their own fortune commercially and live in massive houses lent to them by friends etc and the UK tax payer would be happy to foot their security bill forever, he's living in cloud cuckoo land. There was always going to be enormous backlash against that even if his family had wanted to grant them that.

We find it to be a completely irrational plan. And the BRF and the UK/Canadian governments also rejected it for obvious reasons. But I'm willing to bet that H&M thought it was totally plausible and realistic. You see this sometimes in couples, where they act as an echo chamber and they reinforce each other's grandiose ideas. That's why it's important for the royals to listen to their advisors, otherwise their reality check may play out rather publicly.

 

[Denville]

That’s a good point. Charles, HM and William are level-headed. I’m sorry to say that Harry lives in a fantasy world inhabited by only he and Meghan.

Its hardly worthwhile to ask them to pay commercial rent for Frogmore and/or pay back the renovations cost. They just don't have that sort of money IMO, until they are able to start some kind of commercial/,money making career and that may take ages to get going at present. I think Charles may as well bite the bullet and pay the money back plus carry on with payng for their security... (Or else just go hard and say no, he's not going to help them after the first year and let them figure out how to manage for themselves).
But I can't relaly believe that Harry was believing that the British tax payer was going to go on paying for his security...

 

[Muhler]

You would think fighting in Afghanistan would have humbled him and made him feel grateful for what he has and how lucky he is. And also serving in war torn country would have given him a reality check and a privilege check. But I guess he learned nothing from his time in the Afghanistan.
Instead he becomes entitled and wanting more when he already has millions himself selfish. And shameless I might add.

Could be, but I don't think so.

I lean more toward H&M creating a bubble of their own, with a completely distorted view of their own significance, opportunities and roles. And if no one contradicts you, you end up believing in the mirage you have created.

Harry for whatever reason has pretty much turned his back on his old friends who could have told him in direct terms that he is in error. That's what close friends are for, but there are few such friends, no matter who you are.
If we are to believe the persistent but IMO far from implausible rumors that there is a rift between Harry and William, that means Harry has closed his ears to yet another very close person, who really could give Harry a reality check.
Court advisors have seemingly been ignored as well, and they are after all also there to help H&M to fulfill whatever wishes and projects they wish to embark on.
Then there are the other BRF members. For whatever incongruous reasons Harry decided to ignore their reservations as well. In fact he went into a state of defiance.
Why he has chosen to walk down that path, I don't know. I have several ideas, but that's pure speculation.

That he has ignored advise after advise, that's a fact IMO. There are simply too many indications to refute that.
Not to mention that no serious professional advisor would advocate such a dramatic break-up with the BRF, over such a short period, without a very clear plan of action and with such an amateurish PR-handling.

I don't know where Harry is running to. I don't think he knows that either by now.
I find it deeply tragic to look at.

Can he return back the BRF to get help to carve out a new role? I firmly believe they would be willing to help him, but he has to ask for it and the question is whether he will overcome his pride, because that's one seriously big three-humped camel he will have to swallow! In public!
Not to mention that the longer it takes for Harry to ask for help from his family, the less help and sympathy he can expect to get. Royals are only humans.
And then there is the joker: Meghan. And their child.

- I have omitted Meghan from most of this, because the decision to break away from the BRF, was ultimately Harry's. No matter how big or little influence Meghan had in this.
It is also Harry who has to take the decisive step towards a reconciliation with the BRF - and dare I say the UK as well. They are after all his family and his country.

 

[muriel]

That’s a good point. Charles, HM and William are level-headed. I’m sorry to say that Harry lives in a fantasy world inhabited by only he and Meghan.

I do not think it is about Harry living in a fantasy world. I think it is about a
series of serious errors of judgement in recent years, which seem to have been compounded. For example, I still did not believe that Harry intended to actually step back when the 8 Jan announcement was made, I think it was a tantrum, and he did not anticipate things go so totally against him.

As to what is causing these errors of judgement, could include any or a combination of:

a) Perhaps Harry just not being very bright and misreading the situation;
b) Obstinacy on his part;
c) The grass is greener on the other side syndrome; or
d) Clear direction from Meghan, and unwillingness of Harry to be able to either stand up to her or moderate her ask, given H's emotional dependence on her.

All in all, it just seems like a real and total waste, as H&M had real potential in their royal careers, but that chapter of their lives appears to be well and truely over.

Please note some of this post has been copied from an earlier posting in a different thread, but felt just as apt here.

 

[Osipi]

I never expected the Met Police to provide security for H&M once they left British soil and that would have nothing to do with either the Queen or Charles making the decision on it but rather as its government funded (taxpayer), it was up to the government to say "No go Harry. You're on your own".

I also think that Charles will provide some income for the Sussex family but only for a limited amount of time. Its like a parent putting a pair of water wings on the kid while he's learning to swim. Things that Charles paid for before when they were working royals such as their working wardrobe and such will not be provided.

There is no such thing in this world today as a free lunch and like all kids stepping out into the world on their own, there's going to be things that Harry took for granted as always being there that will no longer be available. For a guy that has never had to worry about money or paying bills and didn't have to look over his shoulder to assess any danger to himself or his family, he's going to be learning (hopefully fast) that with independence comes responsibility and "freedom" means self reliance. No parent wants their child to fail but with limitations, Harry will learn to stand on his own two feet

Its a sink or swim situation for H&M now and fortunately, LA has a lot of water around it for them to learn in.

 

[muriel]

Could be, but I don't think so.

I lean more toward H&M creating a bubble of their own, with a completely distorted view of their own significance, opportunities and roles. And if no one contradicts you, you end up believing in the mirage you have created.

Harry for whatever reason has pretty much turned his back on his old friends who could have told him in direct terms that he is in error. That's what close friends are for, but there are few such friends, no matter who you are.
If we are to believe the persistent but IMO far from implausible rumors that there is a rift between Harry and William, that means Harry has closed his ears to yet another very close person, who really could give Harry a reality check.
Court advisors have seemingly been ignored as well, and they are after all also there to help H&M to fulfill whatever wishes and projects they wish to embark on.
Then there are the other BRF members. For whatever incongruous reasons Harry decided to ignore their reservations as well. In fact he went into a state of defiance.
Why he has chosen to walk down that path, I don't know. I have several ideas, but that's pure speculation.

That he has ignored advise after advise, that's a fact IMO. There are simply too many indications to refute that.
Not to mention that no serious professional advisor would advocate such a dramatic break-up with the BRF, over such a short period, without a very clear plan of action and with such an amateurish PR-handling.

I don't know where Harry is running to. I don't think he knows that either by now.
I find it deeply tragic to look at.

Can he return back the BRF to get help to carve out a new role? I firmly believe they would be willing to help him, but he has to ask for it and the question is whether he will overcome his pride, because that's one seriously big three-humped camel he will have to swallow! In public!
Not to mention that the longer it takes for Harry to ask for help from his family, the less help and sympathy he can expect to get. Royals are only humans.
And then there is the joker: Meghan. And their child.

- I have omitted Meghan from most of this, because the decision to break away from the BRF, was ultimately Harry's. No matter how big or little influence Meghan had in this.
It is also Harry who has to take the decisive step towards a reconciliation with the BRF - and dare I say the UK as well. They are after all his family and his country.

Very well put, @Muhler.

I agree, I think a lot of this has been driven by believing "a completely distorted view of their own significance, opportunities and roles", and more imprtantly, limitd access of any of Harry's old friends and family who could potentially have reasoned with him.

 

[Muhler]

I never expected the Met Police to provide security for H&M once they left British soil and that would have nothing to do with either the Queen or Charles making the decision on it but rather as its government funded (taxpayer), it was up to the government to say "No go Harry. You're on your own".

I also think that Charles will provide some income for the Sussex family but only for a limited amount of time. Its like a parent putting a pair of water wings on the kid while he's learning to swim. Things that Charles paid for before when they were working royals such as their working wardrobe and such will not be provided.

There is no such thing in this world today as a free lunch and like all kids stepping out into the world on their own, there's going to be things that Harry took for granted as always being there that will no longer be available. For a guy that has never had to worry about money or paying bills and didn't have to look over his shoulder to assess any danger to himself or his family, he's going to be learning (hopefully fast) that with independence comes responsibility and "freedom" means self reliance. No parent wants their child to fail but with limitations, Harry will learn to stand on his own two feet

Its a sink or swim situation for H&M now and fortunately, LA has a lot of water around it for them to learn in.

But it's shark-infested water.

 

[BaiSoSo]

You would think fighting in Afghanistan would have humbled him and made him feel grateful for what he has and how lucky he is. And also serving in war torn country would have given him a reality check and a privilege check. But I guess he learned nothing from his time in the Afghanistan.
Instead he becomes entitled and wanting more when he already has millions himself selfish. And shameless I might add.

Why is walking away from a job that makes your family considered shameful? Of the entire family he probably has the best idea of what BOTH worlds look like and doesn't feel that vitriol treatment towards his family that comes with the privilege is worth it.

.......Its a sink or swim situation for H&M now and fortunately, LA has a lot of water around it for them to learn in.

But it's shark-infested water.

And the BRF isn’t??

 

[muriel]

Why is walking away from a job that makes your family considered shameful? Of the entire family he probably has the best idea of what BOTH worlds look like and doesn't feel that vitriol treatment towards his family that comes with the privilege is worth it.

Its about a sense of duty to crown and country. H&M would have been fine, they just needed to stop reading the newspapers and focussed on their work.

 

[Denville]

I do not think it is about Harry living in a fantasy world. I think it is about a
series of serious errors of judgement in recent years, which seem to have been compounded. For example, I still did not believe that Harry intended to actually step back when the 8 Jan announcement was made, I think it was a tantrum, and he did not anticipate things go so totally against him.

Aier posting in a different thread, but felt just as apt here.

I think he must have expected to "step back". Meghan's swift retrurn to Canada suggests that she was not keen on remaining in the UK. And I cant imagine taht Harry made that announcement and then just expected to go on as usual. I think what he did NOT expect was to be told "no you can't "step back" and be half Royal and half businessman, you have to be one or the other..."

 

[Muhler]

Why is walking away from a job that makes your family considered shameful? Of the entire family he probably has the best idea of what BOTH worlds look like and doesn't feel that vitriol treatment towards his family that comes with the privilege is worth it.

It isn't.

It's how you leave that matters.

There is no need to slam the door behind you as H&M has in regards to both the BRF and the UK.

You don't leave in the middle of a show. H&M was basically to go on stage for act three, when they informed the rest of the troupe: We want new roles!
And when they couldn't get that right away they walked out after a couple of lines.

 

[BaiSoSo]

Its about a sense of duty to crown and country. H&M would have been fine, they just needed to stop reading the newspapers and focussed on their work.

A sense of duty to what a crown filled with jewels? A family that sits back and does nothing while your wife/child are humiliated and bullied day in and day out? I would think that 10 years in the British army would show a sense of duty to the country...why wasn't that enough for Harry? Why would he have to do more, sacrifice his wife/child?

Being silent is often a sign of compliance/acceptance of the behavior. And while we don't have all the information, it was clear (at least to me) the treatment of Meghan (and Archie/Harry) was much worse than any other royal received. The were articles out there that were trying to do real harm to this family...trying to relate Meghan to terrorism, drought/murder among other things.

This is not normal and shouldn't be viewed as such. The price of "privilege" wasn't worth it to Harry who had already lost his mother to similar actions. And as everyone else has freedom to choose a different path so should Harry.

It isn't.

It's how you leave that matters.

There is no need to slam the door behind you as H&M has in regards to both the BRF and the UK.

You don't leave in the middle of a show. H&M was basically to go on stage for act three, when they informed the rest of the troupe: We want new roles!
And when they couldn't get that right away they walked out after a couple of lines.

And a 'show' is what basically a lifetime.... no one should have to suffer for a lifetime just to prop up other people who just happened to be born first. People are allowed to leave the family business if they choose to do so.

As for how... It wasn't a surprise to the family as the Queen herself said that talks were going on for months. The couple were being blackmailed into telling their story even before they were ready....one publication's editor wore that proudly on his chest. Other publications made it clear that Harry tried to get an appointment with the Queen before going public but was turned away by courtiers. If the BRF was so worried about optics and timing why didn't they protect the information more closely?

 

[Soula]

It isn't.

It's how you leave that matters.

There is no need to slam the door behind you as H&M has in regards to both the BRF and the UK.

You don't leave in the middle of a show. H&M was basically to go on stage for act three, when they informed the rest of the troupe: We want new roles!
And when they couldn't get that right away they walked out after a couple of lines.

Exactly! Well said!

 

[Betsypaige]

I do not think it is about Harry living in a fantasy world. I think it is about a
series of serious errors of judgement in recent years, which seem to have been compounded. For example, I still did not believe that Harry intended to actually step back when the 8 Jan announcement was made, I think it was a tantrum, and he did not anticipate things go so totally against him.

As to what is causing these errors of judgement, could include any or a combination of:

a) Perhaps Harry just not being very bright and misreading the situation;
b) Obstinacy on his part;
c) The grass is greener on the other side syndrome; or
d) Clear direction from Meghan, and unwillingness of Harry to be able to either stand up to her or moderate her ask, given H's emotional dependence on her.

All in all, it just seems like a real and total waste, as H&M had real potential in their royal careers, but that chapter of their lives appears to be well and truely over.

Please note some of this post has been copied from an earlier posting in a different thread, but felt just as apt here.

None of this preclude him living in a fantasy world. Harry - and Meghan- thought they could have it all: all the glorious trappings of Royalty while not being fully Royal. They thought they could disrespect HM and his own father, the PoW, and the public wouldn’t care (because of their own popularity), etc.. H and M have made a series of blunders, often stemming from their self-centeredness and sense of entitlement. It’s been one thing after another....

 

[Betsypaige]

Very well put, @Muhler.

I agree, I think a lot of this has been driven by believing "a completely distorted view of their own significance, opportunities and roles", and more imprtantly, limitd access of any of Harry's old friends and family who could potentially have reasoned with him.

Not to be pedantic, but the part in italics is essentially what I said about H and M living in a fantasy world ...

Muhler’s post is fantastic. Harry and Meghan have surrounded themselves with YES men and women, same way as they’ve only granted access to media who are favorable to them. They want to be told how great they are, how wonderful their ideas are. If anyone suggests otherwise, they get their backs up and stamp their feet. They are children. It’s very easy for me to believe that Harry would have pouted after his father agreed with HM about not giving H and M Windsor as a sort of court, or that he spurned his brother for daring to suggest he was rushing it with M. Charles and HM wanted to help the Sussexes, but asked for patience. H and M threw a giant hissy fit. I’ll repeat it - they are children.