General News about the Sussex Family, Part Three: August-September 2020


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I think a lot of people are still impressed with titles, even if they know there's no logical reason to be both in countries with aristocracy and/or Monarchy and republics. There's a reason a lot of royals who work in non royal fields want to keep using them like H&M and Martha Louise or families continue to use titles that became non legal over 100 years ago and everyone including newspapers uses them socially still. And in Britain there is still very much a class structure that has nothing to do with money and people from all walks of life might call you out on it.

It just stands out when you have people like Hilary Clinton, Kamala Harris and even Melinda Gates and Meghan is by contrast just "Duchess of Sussex" which she only was for 18 months before leaving the firm as a working royal and she achieved the title by marrying someone who would have to quite literally renounce his family if he ever took the US citizenship oath. And that is her sole reason for being there and at a progressive event at that.

Oh yes there are still some people impressed by titles in Britain but definitely lots, surely the great majority (?), who certainly are not. The age of deference towards hereditary titles died a long time ago. This of course is not to be confused with support for the monarchy as an institution.

I take your point about the class system. It most definitely still exists but it isn't what it once was. And I'd contend it's more about opportunity & education than any old fashioned attitudes towards hereditary hierarchies these days.
 
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I doubt if American upper class people are impressed by their titles, except insofar as having a title means they come from a family with a long history.. it is more to do with sharing similar business interests and social pursuits.

Oh, you WOULD be surprised. Nouveau riche and American "strivers" are giddy about titled Europeans.

(There is a caveat...this does not apply to genteel old money like the Roosevelts, Hearsts etc...they couldn't care less)
 
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so doesnt' matter if they have anything helpful or intelligent to say? Just that they are famous for something or have a title?


I thought she had good things to say. I LOVED what she said about “suffragist” vs “suffragette.”
 
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Oh, you WOULD be surprised. Nouveau riche and American "strivers" are giddy about titled Europeans.

(There is a caveat...this does not apply to genteel old money like the Roosevelts, Hearsts etc...they couldn't care less)

That's what I said, American "Old money" would not mainly be impressed by titles. Nouveau riche and Hollywood types possiblly...
 
Long time reader, first time poster.

I haven't read all the comments about the most recent interview. But here are my two cents.

Meghan comes off as someone who doesn't have the capability to understand deep issues. Mentioning she didn't have a voice lately is such a blatant misrepresentation. The only reason she has a voice with a megaphone is because of whom she married.

Harry was not disenfranchised! He had a platform, reach, money, staff that worked towards the things he cared about: mental health, vet issues, Lesotho. That is more than having a voice (which he had, he gave interviews, featured on magazine covers!), he had the ability to actually make changes. And he had a direct reach to politician, although he was not allowed to make direct requests for policy change, he could talk to politician and make his voice heard. When there is actual voter suppression going on, why bring Harry as an example, at all?

About her intelligence. I know she went to a great university. But she came from a broken family [...... ] I am not American, but I know these are things affect admission process. When I listen to her, read her and then see her actions, I don't see someone particularly intelligent. I see someone who only thinks she is very smart. When I look at the two, I see an entitled couple who need to take a long look into a mirror.

I don't know how to edit a post, but what does this mean: "the right to vote is not a privilege, it is a right in of itself" It sounds smart, sure. But what? Democracies are not a given. Living in a democracy is a privilege, many in the world don't have that. Even within democracies, there are a lot barriers to vote, especially in the US.

Maybe she wanted to say, in a democracy voting should not be a privilege, but the right of every citizen. But even then, mental health, age, felony charges, etc can create barriers. So it is an interesting topic to discuss, who has the right to vote. Again, it is another instance where she can only skim on the surface.
 
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so doesnt' matter if they have anything helpful or intelligent to say? Just that they are famous for something or have a title?

Unfortunately, that is how America's celebrity culture works. She was happy about being interviewed by a Royal Duchess even though said Duchess was a nobody in comparison so some of the other powerful women
 
I watched the full interview, as a British subject I was uncomfortable in the way Meghan commented that her husband did not have the right to vote when they were discussing areas where people are prevented from voting. IMO it is a different set of circumstances and if she was going to comment she should have put it in context, not just a through away remark that her husband could not vote. I also think it is offensive to people who cannot vote because they are downtrodden and repressed, not a wealthy member of the British Family who choose to remain out of politics.
It either shows a lack of understanding or another slight at the British monarchy.

There are other comments I could make but I will hold back, I know I am not prone to holding back but I will today.
 
I don't know how to edit a post, but what does this mean: "the right to vote is not a privilege, it is a right in of itself" It sounds smart, sure. But what? Democracies are not a given. Living in a democracy is a privilege, many in the world don't have that. Even within democracies, there are a lot barriers to vote, especially in the US.

Maybe she wanted to say, in a democracy voting should not be a privilege, but the right of every citizen. But even then, mental health, age, felony charges, etc can create barriers. So it is an interesting topic to discuss, who has the right to vote. Again, it is another instance where she can only skim on the surface.

She means that your vote is a human right. Not a privilege to be taken for granted. But the right to vote is not an human right. A responsibility to those who fought hard to earn it sure. A responsibility to the community in which you live in. A chance for you to have a say in how the system works. It isn't a human right.
 
It seems obvious to me that her present high profile is indisputably a direct result of her marriage but if you perceive it differently then that's cool.:flowers:

If the duchess wishes to be an activist then that's her choice but it is disrespectful to the institution she married into to do so whilst using her title to amplify her voice. That's my perspective as a monarchist.

I agree. To me, it is grounds for their titles to be revoked because these are titles belonging to the Monarchy, an institution that is supposed to be nonpolitical.
 
It seems that the vile person that H&M called to congratulate for her fundraising has been in contact with their staff and Scobie for a long period of time. There’s no way the Sussexes didn’t know they type of comments she was making on Twitter against the Cambridge’s

 
Long time reader, first time poster.



I haven't read all the comments about the most recent interview. But here are my two cents.



Meghan comes off as someone who doesn't have the capability to understand deep issues. Mentioning she didn't have a voice lately is such a blatant misrepresentation. The only reason she has a voice with a megaphone is because of whom she married.



Harry was not disenfranchised! He had a platform, reach, money, staff that worked towards the things he cared about: mental health, vet issues, Lesotho. That is more than having a voice (which he had, he gave interviews, featured on magazine covers!), he had the ability to actually make changes. And he had a direct reach to politician, although he was not allowed to make direct requests for policy change, he could talk to politician and make his voice heard. When there is actual voter suppression going on, why bring Harry as an example, at all?



About her intelligence. I know she went to a great university. But she came from a broken family [.....] I am not American, but I know these are things affect admission process. When I listen to her, read her and then see her actions, I don't see someone particularly intelligent. I see someone who only thinks she is very smart. When I look at the two, I see an entitled couple who need to take a long look into a mirror.



[.......] She went to a good high school and a university ranked in the top 20 or so universities in the United States.

NU is a private university and thus is free to make their own admissions guidelines, but I can tell you that there are high academic standards for even the student athletes, which is part of the reason why the sports teams sucked for so long. Race is a minor factor in admissions at Northwestern, and the elite universities fight over the best students of color. There is no reason I can tell why Meghan wouldn’t be qualified. In fact, the fact that Meghan is from California is probably a more important factor in her admissions, since most NU students are from the Midwest and the school actively tried to recruit students outside of the Midwest.

As for the fact that Meghan’s parents are divorced, I have no idea what point you’re trying to make with this.
 
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I watched the full interview, as a British subject I was uncomfortable in the way Meghan commented that her husband did not have the right to vote when they were discussing areas where people are prevented from voting. IMO it is a different set of circumstances and if she was going to comment she should have put it in context, not just a through away remark that her husband could not vote. I also think it is offensive to people who cannot vote because they are downtrodden and repressed, not a wealthy member of the British Family who choose to remain out of politics.
It either shows a lack of understanding or another slight at the British monarchy.

There are other comments I could make but I will hold back, I know I am not prone to holding back but I will today.

I couldn’t agree more. Meghan talks a lot, but in many cases she has no idea what she’s taking about. Does she think people are stupid? That we don’t know what disenfranchised means ? That we’ll be so spellbinded by her that we’ll ignore the fact that actually she is highly offensive? Because, I’m offended by her comments. I’m angry that she had the nerve to compare her extremely privileged husband, who’s position in the BRF means voting would be an awkward thing, to people who are actually prevented by voting in the most despicable means possible. As my father would say, she has her head up her behind, and believe me, he uses another word instead if that last one.

It seems that the vile person that H&M called to congratulate for her fundraising has been in contact with their staff and Scobie for a long period of time. There’s no way the Sussexes didn’t know they type of comments she was making on Twitter against the Cambridge’s


Or about the BRF in general, right? Their support of and outright collaboration with this hateful group speaks volumes about them.
 
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I don't know how to edit a post, but what does this mean: "the right to vote is not a privilege, it is a right in of itself" It sounds smart, sure. But what? Democracies are not a given. Living in a democracy is a privilege, many in the world don't have that. Even within democracies, there are a lot barriers to vote, especially in the US.

Maybe she wanted to say, in a democracy voting should not be a privilege, but the right of every citizen. But even then, mental health, age, felony charges, etc can create barriers. So it is an interesting topic to discuss, who has the right to vote. Again, it is another instance where she can only skim on the surface.




Even in countries which we normally think of as "old democracies", universal suffrage is something actually relatively new. Most "democracies" didn't have it until the first decades of the 20th century or even beyond that. In Europe, in countries that had representative systems, restrictions to voting were based mostly on gender (women e.g. couldn't vote), property/income qualifications (e.g. one had to be a householder or pay local taxes), or education (e.g. literacy tests), but restrictions based on race, ethnicity or population group were not so common.



In the "New World", on the other hand, the right to vote was already quasi-universal for white men, but many population groups were excluded and not only in the US. South Africa was obviously the most extreme example of race-based franchise, but , for example, reserve Indians and Inuit people could not vote in Canada (as American Indians could not vote either in the US) and most Aborigenes generally could not vote, especially in federal elections, in Australia. And we all know that, although black Americans could theoretically vote, state laws imposed several restrictions on their ability to do so (from literacy tests to poll taxes) while exempting white people in similar circumstances through legacy clauses and things like that.



The discussion that Meghan was having in the interview focused mostly on women's suffrage; the 19th itself is a reference, I believe, to the 19th amendment to the US constitution (ratified in 1920), which barred the United States or any individual state from restricting the right of citizens of the United States to vote on account of sex. More broadly speaking, it was a discussion also about all whom I mentioned above who were once denied the vote because they were poor, or uneducated, or simply of "the wrong color". It is completely bizarre then that, in the middle of that very serious conversation, Meghan would mention her husband "not being able to vote" in the UK, not only because he is actually "able" to vote (but chooses not to do it), but also mostly because using one of the most privileged and influential persons in the UK as an example of "disenfranchisement" is actually completely out of touch and shows how superficial Meghan can be sometimes.


I won't comment any further on this issue not to repeat myself.


PS: Wikipedia has a nice chart of "true" universal suffrage dates in the article below and it is quite surprising: we are talking for example of as late as 1967 in Australia, 1960 in Canada or at least 1965 in the US (and those are all countries normally thought to be highly "democratic"). European countries usually do better with the last major historic hurdle actually being women's suffrage.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_suffrage
 
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:previous:

Please accept this standing ovation clapping..
This, this entire text was what Megahn should have said. Minus bringing up Harry.
And you hit on why I have major issues with her: she talks and talks and talks but it is all surface and no depth and real understanding. And she seems to not understand, see or accept, this flaw of hers exists and that it is part of why some people do not like her.
 
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She is still a US citizen so I imagine she'll vote in the Presidential election.
 
:previous: Given that she expressed her political views when she was still Harry's girlfriend publicly, I'd be very surprised if Meghan didn't vote in the elections.
 
Exactly, and that to me is problematic. The BRF has been 'used' to create a global platform for Meghan. That's not what a royal family is for...

That is what I have a problem with. BRF is a public institution, they are publicly funded and they perform their duties. It is not a platform for personal agendas and fame.

BRF members are famous because of incident of birth, not because they earned their fame through merit. Unearned status used to lecture, to gain personal fame and fortune, all of this is grating.

I think it is hard for many Americans to understand this as they don't have apolitical institutions, even Supreme Court is political. Americans also does more celebrity worship while Brits are more cynical. MM I think saw that she would be more welcome and her woe is me would find a sympathetic ear in American audience.
 
:previous: Given that she expressed her political views when she was still Harry's girlfriend publicly, I'd be very surprised if Meghan didn't vote in the elections.


She said explicitly in "the 100" webpage that she will vote in the US elections. That was actually a women's "get out the vote" (GoTV) event featuring several prominent Democratic party women including the current VP nominee, Kamala Harris; the former presidential candidate, Secretary of State and First Lady Hillary Cinton; former First Lady Michelle Obama, and former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.



For those who are not familiar with it (I am not sure if the term is used in the UK also), GoTV usually is not just a neutral civic campaign to stimulate citizens to get involved in public affairs (although it could theoretically be). On the contrary, it is normally a partisan activity targeting people who you think are likely to vote for your party or your candidate , but who otherwise do not normally vote. The ultimate goal is to maximize your candidate's vote tally, which BTW is a perfectly legitimate goal if you are a politician. If Meghan did that in the UK as a royal duchess, it would be problematic though as she is not supposed to aid any candidate or political party to win elections or get involved in campaign events.



I guess she is saying she is now a free American, with her voice back, exercising her legitimate political rights as a citizen of the United States, which is OK. But, at the same, she still introduces herself as "Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex", which is confusing, even when she is doing it in a country other than the UK, because she is voting, endorsing candidates (albeit indirectly) and all that.
 
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It seems that the vile person that H&M called to congratulate for her fundraising has been in contact with their staff and Scobie for a long period of time. There’s no way the Sussexes didn’t know they type of comments she was making on Twitter against the Cambridge’s

I thought a phone call to thank this person for doing this was a HUGE mistake of either the Sussexes or their team, I gave them the benefit of the doubt anf thought that sure, they should've done a background before contacting this fan, but okay, water under the bridge.

To know it was not a one time phone call, to know it was some sort of a cooperation - though I do like how they put all the weight on the person, just "email us when you'll finish all the hard work" ? - that there were Zoom meetings and talks about future collaborations is... mind-boggling.

For people who are so concerned about what's being written about them on the Internet, they're pretty quick to forgive the same offence being done to somebody else.

Does anybody has a link to that "social media is evil" something Harry "wrote"? Because I'd like to read it again, to enjoy the hipocrisy of it all. I honestly don't have words right now, this should be publicized more, until EVERYONE hears about it.

It's simply disgusting.
 
If Meghan is able to motivate even one person who wouldn't have voted anyway, more power to her. I don't see it as political, although her use of certain phrases may put her right on the line. Prince Charles has waded into issues that could be seen as political, i.e., his support for the Dalai Lama.

Wanting to help people is admirable but Harry and Meghan may want to adopt some humility when they do so. They have an incredibly privileged life - that doesn't that they don't have their challenges - but they should strive to strike the right tone. In another thread I posted about resenting being lectured about climate change from someone who routinely takes private planes and vacations in Africa. If someone is going to advocate for policies that will completely change the way of life for me, and a large segment of the population, I want them to walk the walk.
 
If Meghan is able to motivate even one person who wouldn't have voted anyway, more power to her. I don't see it as political, although her use of certain phrases may put her right on the line. Prince Charles has waded into issues that could be seen as political, i.e., his support for the Dalai Lama.


I see your point, but I beg to differ.



True, you can argue that there is nothing wrong about motivating people to vote. As I said, it could be seen as a civic campaign to get people involved in politics. But, as I also said, that is not why political parties do it. They do it to get more people to vote for them, and usually they seek to motivate only those population groups who they think are likely to do so. I am being pretty blunt, but that is the reality.


In any case, whether there is a hidden agenda or not, royals would NOT do it in the UK (I kindly ask the British members to confirm that). It would be considered a political statement and even a partisan position, because it can be potentially influence the outcome of an election. Remember when the Queen made a totally unpretentious comment about people needing to think about the consequences (not the exact words, I know) before the Scottish independence referendum and was immediately accused of meddling with the vote? What if Prince Charles or Prince William said tomorrow that more people or more women should vote in the British general election?



Again, I wait comments from the British members.
 
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It seems that the vile person that H&M called to congratulate for her fundraising has been in contact with their staff and Scobie for a long period of time. There’s no way the Sussexes didn’t know they type of comments she was making on Twitter against the Cambridge’s


Is this another example of Meghan pushing the story. By that I mean there are different examples of Meghan offering to become involved in different groups / events / conferences. Not being invited but offering herself. Now it appears these spontaneous fund raisers are not as spontaneous as we might have previously thought.
I am glad they have gone to the USA you are welcome to them.
Catherine and Pippa were called the Wisteria sisters they have nothing on Meghan.
I listened to the 19 interview, she repeats the same thing over and over again, voice, voiceless, empowerment, women. She doesn't offer solutions. Could it be she doesn't have any, she is blowing in the wind.
 
I see your point, but I beg to differ.



True, you can argue that there is nothing wrong about motivating people to vote. As I said, it could be seen as a civic campaign to get people involved in politics. But, as I also said, that is not why political parties do it. They do it to get more people to vote for them, and usually they seek to motivate only those population groups who they think are likely to do so. I am being pretty blunt, but that is the reality.

....

Absolutely correct. It's definitely not something any member of the royal family would be involved in.

I listened to the 19 interview, she repeats the same thing over and over again, voice, voiceless, empowerment, women. She doesn't offer solutions. Could it be she doesn't have any, she is blowing in the wind.

I've noticed that as well. Harry does the same in his latest interview. The person he talks to is incredibly impressive which makes the comparison all the more stark.

It's clear that they will continue in this vein.

It would appear that they have nothing but contempt for the usual conventions & by extension the British monarchy & people.
 
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I see your point, but I beg to differ.



True, you can argue that there is nothing wrong about motivating people to vote. As I said, it could be seen as a civic campaign to get people involved in politics. But, as I also said, that is not why political parties do it. They do it to get more people to vote for them, and usually they seek to motivate only those population groups who they think are likely to do so. I am being pretty blunt, but that is the reality.


In any case, whether there is a hidden agenda or not, royals would NOT do it in the UK (I kindly ask the British members to confirm that). It would be considered a political statement and even a partisan position, because it can be potentially influence the outcome of an election. Remember when the Queen made a totally unpretentious about people thinking about the consequences (not the exact words, I know) before the Scottish independence referendum and was immediately accused of meddling with the election? What if Prince Charles or Prince William said tomorrow that more people or more women should vote in the British general election?



Again, I wait comments from the British members.

Oh yes. Political parties have "get the vote out" campaigns here with members and volunteers, going to so far in some cases as to take people who have no other transportation to the polling stations but senior members of the royal family certainly wouldn't do it.

Even a generic and neutral "get out and vote" might be interpreted a certain way if the result looks close in polls. Whilst I assume people like Lady Gabriella (49th in line) vote even someone like her might raise eyebrows if she campaigned for a certain party because she's relatively well known for someone in the extended family and known to be close to William and Harry as the grew up neighbours.

You're right that the Queen saying "I think the people of Scotland should think very carefully" was NOT appreciated by many people, especially the SNP because they assumed that the Queen would not like to wake up to the news that 1/4 of her country had decided to split off from the rest, especially whilst she was there.

If they were still working royals I think Meghan doing "Get the Vote Out" for the Democrats in this election would be extremely controversial.

And you were bang on with why it's so wrong that Meghan used Harry as an example of a person who cannot vote. That was almost a parody of the situation. He could literally call up a minister tomorrow and have them listen to his call (possibly leak it afterwards but even so).

On another topic. I'm not surprised that the fundraisers weren't as spontaneous as they'd like to have us believe. Nor unfortunately that they keep talking about toxic social media and online bullying but don't have a problem if it's aimed at the Cambridges (and Kate is also a young mother like her 5 friends) and the rest of the family, that's the same attitude they've had with everything such as the wedding pregnancy announcement and assuming that they'll be allowed to pursue whatever trajectory they want and the rest of the firm will follow on behind them.
 
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Wow, if true, I'm totally shocked by this (and I'm not joking) it shows that H&M will allow their team to do anything to boost the couples PR and image. I I were the RF or Household and saw this I'd be wondering what else has been done by their "PR team".

Certainly shows once again the couple are hypocrites, saying how toxic social media can be yet their team actively using it to boost their PR and engaging with trolls.
 
Oh yes. Political parties have "get the vote out" campaigns here with members and volunteers, going to so far in some cases as to take people who have no other transportation to the polling stations but senior members of the royal family certainly wouldn't do it.


Do you think Meghan would show more restraint if she and Harry were still in Canada and not in the US?



I mean, even though H&M are no longer working royals and have dropped the HRH in practice, the Queen is still also the Queen of Canada and Harry, despite not having any official role under the constitution of Canada, is still in the line of succession to the Canadian throne, so I suppose the same requirements of political neutrality that apply to royals in the UK should apply to them in Canada too. Meghan couldn't be in a campaign event for the Liberal Party or endorse Justin Trudeau for example.


I feel that moving to California turned Meghan into a looser canon as she is now more comfortable "back home" and totally unsupervised, and that may potentially increase the risk for the British Royal Family.
 
Oh yes. Political parties have "get the vote out" campaigns here with members and volunteers, going to so far in some cases as to take people who have no other transportation to the polling stations but senior members of the royal family certainly wouldn't do it.

Even a generic and neutral "get out and vote" might be interpreted a certain way if the result looks close in polls. Whilst I assume people like Lady Gabriella (49th in line) vote even someone like her might raise eyebrows if she campaigned for a certain party because she's relatively well known for someone in the extended family and known to be close to William and Harry as the grew up neighbours.
I see your point but she didn't urge that people vote a certain way and she is not inserting herself into British voting. In the United States it is very common for politicians to urge people to vote, even if they vote for the opposition. It's not sincere, of course, but it is common.

On another topic. I'm not surprised that the fundraisers weren't as spontaneous as they'd like to have us believe. Nor unfortunately that they keep talking about toxic social media and online bullying but don't have a problem if it's aimed at the Cambridges (and Kate is also a young mother like her 5 friends) and the rest of the family, that's the same attitude they've had with everything such as the wedding pregnancy announcement and assuming that they'll be allowed to pursue whatever trajectory they want and the rest of the firm will follow on behind them.
The articles I have read indicate that the fundraiser was "linked" to the anti-Cambridge account. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect them to be familiar with all the posters. I can't believe that Harry and Meghan would knowingly praise someone who posted vile insults about Kate and William. They would have to assume that the phone call would prompt some investigation. I'll withhold judgment until there is more information.
 
The most recent tweet of heir pod suggests those working for H&M (likely Sunshine Sachs) were actively engaging with such people and encouraging them to do more for H&M. That doesn't really tie in with "how bad social media can be" ethos coming from Harry recently.

A very simple bit of research would have shown the link and should have caused H&M and those advising them to think again. What worries me is it certainly shows H&M are aware of "Sussex stans" (which is also shown in the Finding Freedom book) and so engaging with them isn't putting them off, surely if they believe in the "kindness" and "social media is harmful" messages they have been delivering they'd see this was something to avoid.
 
The most recent tweet of heir pod suggests those working for H&M (likely Sunshine Sachs) were actively engaging with such people and encouraging them to do more for H&M. That doesn't really tie in with "how bad social media can be" ethos coming from Harry recently.

Harry needs to work on living up to his own rhetoric.
 
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