General information and questions about Monaco and the Princely Family

[Glistening Seas]

Glistening Seas

No doubt the Grimaldi's work very hard and they do quite a good job indeed. The article is g-r-e-a-t!! will re-read it many times and quite informative too

 

[Renata4711]

Yes, this kind of article is a small work of art - it has the power to transport you effortlessly into a different world, and it makes you feel you, too, could be there and belong there - even if it's just for an Easyjet weekend

I wish I could be a travel writer !!

 

[DuedePhiladelphia]

Cementary

Question: I went to Monaco Photo Blog WEBSITE and I saw that there is a cementary in MC but the names was all of famous people. I understand that MC is small is all the
population interred at that cemenatry?

 

[Renata4711]

Hi Due,
the municipal cemetery in Monaco is terraced and covers a large area. There are about 6000 tombs, and more than 23000 people are buried in them.

Last year, in time for All Saints Day, the Mayor's office installed a GPS system so that visitors can find much faster the grave they're looking for.

You're right, there are some VIPs buried there, e.g. Josephine Baker and Léo Ferré.

As you know, the Sovereign Princes are buried in the Cathedral. An exception was made for Princess Grace who was not a Sovereign princess.

http://www.monaco-mairie.mc/w3c/03_services_communaux/admin/cim.php

http://www.nicematin.com/ta/toussai...bornes-interactives-pour-retrouver-les-tombes

http://www.monaco.maprincipaute.com/actu/actudet_--Monaco%C2%A0-Cimetiere-interactif-en-2008-_loc-461553_actu.Htm

But there is also the Chapelle de la Paix (Peace Chapel) at the Rock, where junior members of the Princely family are buried. Prince Pierre (Rainer's father) and Stefano Casiraghi (Caroline's husband) are buried there. Princess Antoinette will find her final resting place there - but hopefully not for a long while yet !! !

 

[DuedePhiladelphia]

Hi Due,
the municipal cemetery in Monaco is terraced and covers a large area. There are about 6000 tombs, and more than 23000 people are buried in them.

Last year, in time for All Saints Day, the Mayor's office installed a GPS system so that visitors can find much faster the grave they're looking for.

You're right, there are some VIPs buried there, e.g. Josephine Baker and Léo Ferré.

As you know, the Sovereign Princes are buried in the Cathedral. An exception was made for Princess Grace who was not a Sovereign princess.

Monaco - La Mairie - Services Communaux - Cimetière

Cimetière : des bornes interactives pour retrouver les tombes - Monaco - toussaint - l'information en direct avec Nice-Matin - nicematin.com

Monaco.maville.com Monaco : Cimetière interactif en 2008

But there is also the Chapelle de la Paix (Peace Chapel) at the Rock, where junior members of the Princely family are buried. Prince Pierre (Rainer's father) and Stefano Casiraghi (Caroline's husband) are buried there. Princess Antoinette will find her final resting place there - but hopefully not for a long while yet !! !

Thank You

 

[Renata4711]

Forgot to mention the "Cimetière Animalier", the Monaco Animal Cemetery at Fontvieille, inaugurated in May 2008, with 300 tombs.

Engl. "pet" = French "animal de compagnie"

It costs 300 euros to keep the grave for 2 years, and it can be renewed.
Flowers and photos not allowed.

Inauguration du cimetière des animaux de compagnie à Monaco - Waliboo

Chiens, chats, oiseaux et rongeurs ont leur cimetière - Monaco - animaux - l'information en direct avec Nice-Matin - nicematin.com

 

[kells]

Are the Grimaldis religious?

By that I mean, just how Catholic are they? I'm Catholic myself, and I've been wondering about this lately. Mass seems to be an integral part of their national celebrations but all three of Grace's children have either been divorced or had children out of wedlock. Not trying to judge them or anything, that's their own business, but I just wonder seeing as how their political events usually involve mass in some way? I hope this is not too personal a question.

 

[Nathalie Cox]

I think they are like the majority of catholic people (I'm a catholic myself):
We believe in God and in Virgin Mary, and in the saints, and that's it.
They are religious enough as we see them in the Cathedral, praying and singing when they have to, but they don't spend the entire day doing it.
Maybe they dont' seem very religious people as Caroline and Stephanie are divorced and have children out of wedlock, as well as Albert.

 

[grace marie]

Well officially they are catholics but as we know their lifestyle, divorces, scandals and rest that's rather ,,theory", not practic.

 

[Saragli]

They are as religious as the majority of europeans. The traditions are appreciated, but it does not play a major part in their lives. This is from what I see.

 

[Renata4711]

That sums it up nicely, I think.

It doesn't apply just to Roman Catholics, but also to Lutherans, and other denominations - see the monarchies of Denmark, Norway and Sweden.

PA, like his father before him, seeks to maintain good relations with the Holy See.
Monaco, after all, has Catholicism as its state religion.

 

[NGalitzine]

As many of my Catholic friends in Europe & in Canada say, they have personal faith and use the Church for weddings, christenings and funerals but at the same time they live their life like everyone else (meaning priests & Popes dont determine what they can and cannot do) and feel free to disagree with the Church on issues like birth control, divorce etc. Pretty much the same as Christians of other faiths I guess.
In short I would say the Grimaldis differ little from other Catholic Europeans.

 

[Bones]

Rainier III used to give a very hefty sum of money to the Church every year, I don't know that Albert does the same but I don't know that he doesn't either. Grace's parents, I think her mother especially, were very religious and raised her in that way (of course all children make their mistakes) and Prince Rainier's closest friend and advisor was his priest Father Tucker. Princess Caroline was known for being the more religious one there for a while (before Ernst came along) and Princess Stephanie has said that she has great respect for the Church and the position of Monaco as a Catholic country. In their personal lives, they've not lived saintly lives but no one does, everyone gives in to temptation at times. Prince Albert has always been in-line with the Church on helping the poor, protecting the environment and on his most recent trip to the Vatican reaffirmed Monaco's committment to being pro-life (conception to natural death). I havn't heard of them going to mass every Sunday and it doesn't seem to be much of an issue with them in the raising of their children, but like many over the years they seem to be keeping on the Catholic side of the line no matter how close to the edge they might wander now & then.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Bones, is it true that Prince Albert II banned, or refused to allow the legalization of abortion in the Principality of Monaco?

I remember reading this a couple of years ago in some French publication...was it Nice-Matin? I don't remember where.

I know that abortion is illegal in the Principality but there was some sort of movement to change that, and the Prince using his absolute authority quashed it.

Believe it or not, despite her romantic missteps Caroline considers herself a faithful daughter of the Church. One of Grace biographers said that when Caroline was a young girl she had an idealistic view of marriage that was very much in line with Church teaching, which is one of the reasons the disaster with Junot was so difficult for her.

As for Princess Stephanie, late last year Paris Vogue devoted an issue to her and the Princess discussed her religious beliefs...saying she has "great respect" for the Catholic religion...which could mean several things. She also speaks passionately of "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran and called it "my Bible" and says it's precepts are very close to Buddhism, and she uses it as a guide to her life.

I took that to mean that in order not to embarrass her beloved brother it could be that Stephanie cannot come right out and say that she doesn't really consider herself Catholic except in name...and she follows a sort of quasi-spiritual path of her own.

But that is only my interpretation, of course.

 

[Bones]

I couldn't cite a source for it but that's what I've always understood to be the case. I know its illegal there and I can't imagine it becoming much of an issue considering how easy it would be to step across to France to have one done. I could not imagine such a thing being legal in an officially Catholic monarchy. The same is true in the other Catholic principality (Liechtenstein) where the Prince is also adamantly pro-life. If such a thing were allowed, in an officially Catholic country in which the monarch has the power to stop it, I could imagine an ugly confrontation over it.

 

[RADKER18]

Bones, is it true that Prince Albert II banned, or refused to allow the legalization of abortion in the Principality of Monaco?

I remember reading this a couple of years ago in some French publication...was it Nice-Matin? I don't remember where.

I know that abortion is illegal in the Principality but there was some sort of movement to change that, and the Prince using his absolute authority quashed it.

Believe it or not, despite her romantic missteps Caroline considers herself a faithful daughter of the Church. One of Grace biographers said that when Caroline was a young girl she had an idealistic view of marriage that was very much in line with Church teaching, which is one of the reasons the disaster with Junot was so difficult for her.

As for Princess Stephanie, late last year Paris Vogue devoted an issue to her and the Princess discussed her religious beliefs...saying she has "great respect" for the Catholic religion...which could mean several things. She also speaks passionately of "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran and called it "my Bible" and says it's precepts are very close to Buddhism, and she uses it as a guide to her life.

I took that to mean that in order not to embarrass her beloved brother it could be that Stephanie cannot come right out and say that she doesn't really consider herself Catholic except in name...and she follows a sort of quasi-spiritual path of her own.

But that is only my interpretation, of course.

Stephanie did an whole issue for Paris match in 2006 were she touched on her religion

C'est important de croire en quelque chose. Je suis chrétienne et baptisée. Le catholicisme est i´ci la réligion d'ètat et je la respecte profondément. Mais quelles que soit nos croyances, il ne faut pas d'exès. À notre époque, certaines se radicalisent. Croire qu'une entité supérieure incarne une unique vérité et peut régler toutes nos difficultés me semble illusoire. C'est à chacun de nous de se prendre en main.

Translation:
It is important to believe in something. I am christian and am baptized. Catholicism ish ere the religion of state and I respect it deeply. But whatever are our beliefs, one does not need a exès. At our time, some are radicalized. To believe that a higher entity incarnates a single and unique truth and can regulate all our difficulties seems to me illusory. It's up to each and everyone of us to handle it.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Thank you so much Radker18, I remember reading that. But the article I am remembering is a different one, where she discusses The Prophet and how important that work is to her life.

This one came out late last year, exactly one year ago in fact, the Dec 2008 Paris Vogue.

I will look for it tonight and bring it tomorrow. Thanks again.

 

[Bones]

Thought I'd post some additional info I've dug up on the issue of Monaco, abortion and the Catholic Church. It seems that under the last constitution enacted by Prince Rainier III abortion was illegal under any and all circumstances and remained so until April 3 of this year when a new law was passed by the National Council which allows for abortion in cases of rape, fetal deformity/illness or if the life or health of the mother is threatened. According to the Monegasque constitution all laws originate with the Sovereign Prince so Albert presumably approved the action. Soon thereafter the Pope addressed the subject of abortion, not mentioning Monaco specifically but reasserting that abortion is, in any and every case, wrong. The Catholic scholars at the Monaco Institute were outraged by this, calling it a betrayal of Monaco's position and history as an officially Catholic state. However, that being said, they do tend to be a tad on the hysterical side over there (when Albert ascended the throne they called on him to change the Grimaldi coat of arms and outlaw gambling) and, as has been mentioned I think, when Albert II recently visited the Holy See he reaffirmed the pro-life stance of Monaco (where abortion is, after all, still mostly illegal), the Pope did not seem to address the issue and the coverage at "Rome Reports" focused on the agreement between the Prince and the Pontiff on the importance of defending human life and preserving the environment.

 

[Renata4711]

I can just see the situation where the Pontiff is laying down the law to a prince with two illegitimate children.

The name "Monaco Institute" can relate to either the Royal American Institute for the Study of Monaco or the "Monaco Institute of Sports Medicine and Surgery".

Monaco has been a member of the Council of Europe since 2004. It is obliged to adhere to the Council's policy on legalised abortion.

 

[Bones]

In this case it refers to neither. This is from the Monaco Institute plain and simple, a Catholic group focused on Monaco and her relation with the Church. They don't have a website but use Catholic.org to post their work. Obviously, people from such a group are going to think that the Church should be a higher authority than a political council; as I said, if they're going to get up-tight about gambling and soldiers in monk disguises on the coat-of-arms it should not come as a surprise that they oppose any allowances for abortion at all in an officially Catholic country.

 

[Renata4711]

It all depends on how you define "state religion".
In England, the state religion is "Church of England"; here in Scotland it is the "Church of Scotland"; in Wales it is the "Church in Wales".
The Church of England is also referred to as the "established church", i.e. there is a strong legal link between Church and State.

The same applies to Monaco, but in practice, the state will always have the upper hand when the chips are down. "Realpolitik" will often overrule the diktats of the church.


A couple more links on the abortion topic:

Albert II is the Patron of the 2nd International Congress on Responsible Stem Cell Research:
The Monaco Intelligencer: A Scholarly Journal on Monegasque Law, Diplomacy & Human Rights

Safe and Legal in Ireland Abortion Rights Campaign: June 2009

 

[Bones]

I don't get the "but in practice" part. Has anyone argued the opposite? And as long as we're posting links dealing with abortion un-related to Monaco here's my comeback:

Priests for Life

Rachel's Vineyard

 

[Glistening Seas]

Glistening Seas

The websites are fab We look forward to spending some hours browsing in them it's quite interesting.

The work that PA did in Antartica was something that should have yielded some pretty interesting info!

 

[Renata4711]

#54:

Monaco and Ireland - the only two Council of Europe countries not allowing abortion.

The link "Monaco Intelligencer" is definitely Monaco-related and anti-abortion..

The Irish link shows the other side of the coin.

 

[Bones]

The other side of what coin? What purpose is served by showing that other than prompting a debate on abortion itself? I don't see what point you're trying to make and I don't see the use of showing the "other side of the coin" in a place like this other than to simply publicize a pro-abortion blog. Your last few posts sound like you're trying to argue with me but I don't know about what. If it's abortion -forget it, I won't do it. If it's something Monaco related you're going to have to be more clear about the point you're trying to make or what info I posted you have a problem with.

 

[Renata4711]

I don't have any problem with you or anything you post, quite the opposite in fact.

It was not I who started a controversy over abortion. As I remember, the original argument was about Monaco being a Catholic country.

I was brought up as a Catholic because my family was nominally Catholic.
From 1980 until now, I've been a vicar in the Church of England, working full-time and part-time.
Naturally I'm interested in how people cope with changes in churches and denominations.
In questions of faith, there will always be "another side of the coin" because faith of any kind is a highly selective business.

May I suggest that you re-read this thread?
I for one won't participate any further in this particular discussion.

 

[Bones]

Well, I'm still somewhat at a loss as to the point of it all. Monaco is officially a Catholic country. I don't see what one side of the coin or the other has to do with it. Some are obviously upset that a Catholic country would allow abortion under any circumstances. From what I gather though Monaco is still more against abortion than not, it might not be as anti-abortion as Malta but seems more so than other countries and if abortion is a "must-have" I don't see anything more reasonable about that position that those who say it is a "must not" considering that Monaco is a microscopic country surrounded on three sides by France where abortion is available on demand.

 

[DuedePhiladelphia]

Monaco and building on the ocean

Why does Monaco have to spend billions to create more space on the ocean? Why cant they buy property/land from France? I dont get it. Since the two countries are so connected it makes sense that the principality would pay the money to France and enhance the living on the Riveria

 

[NGalitzine]

Why does Monaco have to spend billions to create more space on the ocean? Why cant they buy property/land from France? I dont get it. Since the two countries are so connected it makes sense that the principality would pay the money to France and enhance the living on the Riveria

Countries do not generally voluntarily sell or give up their territory to another nation. The days of the Louisiana or Alaska purchases are long gone.Can you imagine the US selling part of its territory to Canada or
Mexico? Besides the residents of the neighbouring French territories may not wish to become subjects of the Grimaldi family.
Plans to build more offshore territory for Monaco are indefinitely postponed due to the current economic climate.

 

[Renata4711]

"Extension maritime":
Monaco already has valuable experience and expertise in gaining more territory.

They already have two of the world's best architects on board: Sir Norman Foster and Daniel Libeskind.

The plan is to add ten new hectares to the 200 hectares already there.

Two groups of builders/financiers are already established: "Monte-Carlo Development Company" (Norman Foster/Michel Pastor/Bouygues) and "Monte-Carlo Sea Land" (Libeskind/Van Oord).

The latter, being Dutch, has hundreds of years experience in reclaiming land from the sea!

Extension maritime de Monaco: avantage aux projets Foster et Libeskind, actualité Sciences : Le Point