Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[Mbruno]

Omid has been speaking about those issues discussed in the book, on telling thing he said was:

In another bombshell revelation, Scobie claims the royal institution would “stop at nothing to make Meghan’s life difficult”, especially over rows surrounding their departing PA and the Duchess’ wedding tiara.

He discloses that an angry Harry phoned the Queen before his wedding to aggressively complain about her key assistant Angela Kelly.

His fury was over a row about what headpiece Meghan was going to wear at the wedding — now known as tiaragate.

Scobie revealed: “Harry had to intervene. He called his grandmother and said, ‘I don’t know what the hell is going on. This woman needs to make this work for my future wife.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12419...nd-meghan-revealed-their-megxit-plans-online/

I'm wondering how "this girl" from William is offensive enough to suggest at best, snobbery, at worst, racism yet "this woman" being said by Harry is okay? It sounds like Harry has quite a nasty streak in him, especially by the standards H&M hold everyone else too.

Honestly, those stories and gossip about tiaras and not going shopping with your sister-in-law look so vain or insignificant, like a bad, cheap soap opera really.


I don't want to comment and will not comment on any of that. I just wanted to say what I just said to stress how utterly ridiculous all that looks, especially in view of the kind of world we are now living in.

 

[RJC]

It might have been mentioned already but Harry also called Meghan "this girl" in the engagement interview...

"Prince Harry: Of course. That sense of responsibility was was essentially from day one or maybe a couple of months in, when I sort of realized actually, this is you know, I feel I know that I'm in love with this girl. And I hope that she is in love with me."

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I don't suppose this belongs here, but.......IF (a big IF) Omid is right about Charles supporting Meghan suing the DM, is it a big deal?

My understanding is that this is a copyright violation lawsuit and Charles had a similar suit a few years ago, so it is not unreasonable to believe that Charles supported the principle. Whether he thought it was a good idea is another issue.

 

[Sun Lion]

Mr Scobie has revealed that the Duke of Sussex is "intending to open up about his own racially-insensitive behaviour" of the past - the Nazi outfit and name-calling in the army.

That's a good decision.

Hope it is done well and helps the Sussexes move forward, and doesn't backfire on them.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12419...nd-meghan-revealed-their-megxit-plans-online/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...k-two-months-Megxit-row-says-Omid-Scobie.html

 

[Betsypaige]

It might have been mentioned already but Harry also called Meghan "this girl" in the engagement interview...

"Prince Harry: Of course. That sense of responsibility was was essentially from day one or maybe a couple of months in, when I sort of realized actually, this is you know, I feel I know that I'm in love with this girl. And I hope that she is in love with me."

???

Harry is a piece of work. I think he forgets what he’s said as soon as he says it... He has no clue about context, he just attacks other people for saying the same thing he has.

My understanding is that this is a copyright violation lawsuit and Charles had a similar suit a few years ago, so it is not unreasonable to believe that Charles supported the principle. Whether he thought it was a good idea is another issue.

Got it, thanks!

 

[Helen.CH]

It might have been mentioned already but Harry also called Meghan "this girl" in the engagement interview...

"Prince Harry: Of course. That sense of responsibility was was essentially from day one or maybe a couple of months in, when I sort of realized actually, this is you know, I feel I know that I'm in love with this girl. And I hope that she is in love with me."

uhhh, never realized that, "he hopes she is in love with me."
reminds me of Charles'' " what ever love means" when engaging Diana

I'm replying to some posts from the General Sussex thread.




The book says the initial request was made in late March when the hairdresser came over from Paris. They hoped to go to Buckingham Palace and try out the tiara but Angela Kelly was in Windsor & despite sending multiple messages to her, she couldn’t be reached and "Harry was furious". There were then subsequent requests over the coming weeks.

“Like most senior staff at Buckingham Palace, Angela is on call should Her Majesty require her service - and at the time of the first hair trial requests, she had apparently been busy at Windsor Castle, where the Queen was based for Easter Court. But as the weeks went by, and the requests from aides working for Harry continued, a time for Meghan to try the tiara had yet to be scheduled.”

Harry then lost his cool and had a “heated exchange” with Angela. The tiara trial still didn’t happen and “with the wedding just a few weeks away” they were frustrated so Harry spoke to the Queen about it and then they got the trial.

I’m sure Angela has her side of the story too so I wouldn’t want to make any critical judgements of her until I’d heard it.

Well, I do think it's possible the aides ignored H&M and Kelly did never get news the several requests. This does happen in closed communities, it is often the only "power" a minor servants/aides has got and it's not unusual they use it-let's be realistic about this. maybe they thought Harry is too pushy, M. not patient enough or simply the idea if having an US? stylist to fly in is simply too strange and hollywoodstyle to suit them. so why not forget a request?
I do not know, but all this is possible, especially as the couple is said to do things differntly, being unpatient....

 

[Denville]

Well, I do think it's possible the aides ignored H&M and Kelly did never get news the several requests. This does happen in closed communities, it is often the only "power" a minor servants/aides has got and it's not unusual they use it-let's be realistic about this. maybe they thought Harry is too pushy, M. not patient enough or simply the idea if having an US? stylist to fly in is simply too strange and hollywoodstyle to suit them. so why not forget a request?
I do not know, but all this is possible, especially as the couple is said to do things differntly, being unpatient....

WHy didn't Harry go quietly and politely to his grandmother and ask her if it was possible to contact Angela K directly?

uhhh, never realized that, "he hopes she is in love with me."
reminds me of Charles'' " what ever love means" when engaging Diana

How?? It is nothing like the same.. Its the kind of thing you say to be self deprecating.. " I love her, I hope she loves me". If its anything like any remarlk of Charles', its like when Ch said "Im amazed Diana was brave enough to take me on..."

 

[Lilyflo]

Well, I do think it's possible the aides ignored H&M and Kelly did never get news the several requests. This does happen in closed communities, it is often the only "power" a minor servants/aides has got and it's not unusual they use it-let's be realistic about this. maybe they thought Harry is too pushy, M. not patient enough or simply the idea if having an US? stylist to fly in is simply too strange and hollywoodstyle to suit them. so why not forget a request?
I do not know, but all this is possible, especially as the couple is said to do things differntly, being unpatient....

If the aides hadn't passed on the requests then I suspect that would have been reported in the book as another example of people who had let them down.

I also need to correct my post above where I said the hairdresser came over from Paris. That's my transcription error - he's French but he flew in from New York.

 

[Denville]

If the aides hadn't passed on the requests then I suspect that would have been reported in the book as another example of people who had let them down.

I also need to correct my post above where I said the hairdresser came over from Paris. That's my transcription error - he's French but he flew in from New York.

I agree. I think that there would have been complaints about aides even more than about Angela, who is someone very close to the queen (so it wasn't very tactful to criticiese her). And I can't really imagine that aides would do this anyway, they are invested in royal weddings and similar events going very smoothly, and I'm sure they would not want to do anything that might jeopardize it all being a well run glittering affair. The only reason there might be a delay was that Angela herself was very busy, and the aides were too, but they had run royal weddings before and knew that there was plenty of time.

 

[Helen.CH]

If the aides hadn't passed on the requests then I suspect that would have been reported in the book as another example of people who had let them down.

I also need to correct my post above where I said the hairdresser came over from Paris. That's my transcription error - he's French but he flew in from New York.

I really din't know or care, but the author decided to blame Kelly alone, I was inky suggesting things were different and H&M did not know better. And things like that do happen in such groups, believe me!

never mind about the fault, flying in from NY makes it more strange, but she was/is and will be(most probably) nothing more but a little actress playing the role if her life and this needs foreign hairdressers, babyshowers aso of course

 

[Helen.CH]

WHy didn't Harry go quietly and politely to his grandmother and ask her if it was possible to contact Angela K directly?



How?? It is nothing like the same.. Its the kind of thing you say to be self deprecating.. " I love her, I hope she loves me". If its anything like any remarlk of Charles', its like when Ch said "Im amazed Diana was brave enough to take me on..."

I don't think the Queen cares about such daily things herself, there are structures to be used, as the book tells aswell, it only went wrong, if true.

 

[Denville]

I really din't know or care, but the author decided to blame Kelly alone, I was inky suggesting things were different and H&M did not know better. And things like that do happen in such groups, believe me!

never mind about the fault, flying in from NY makes it more strange, but she was/is and will be(most probably) nothing more but a little actress playing the role if her life and this needs foreign hairdressers, babyshowers aso of course

Why would aides try to make problems for the wedding? Its their job to make these things run smoothly, and mostly royal big events and weddings are elaborate affairs that DO run smoothly. I did notice at M and H's wedding that the car taking her to church went by very fast, I dont know whether this was deliberate or perhaps they were a few mins late.. but it did mean that people who were watching, would not have had much of a glimpse of her on the way...
I can't imagine that royal staff would want to do anything that might cause problems on the big day, the only thing might be that they felt that H and Meg were over excited and being unreasonable and that they, the aides knew their job and knew that there was time for Angela Kelly to fit in the meetings and still have the tiara in place and have teh wedding run smoothly...

 

[evolvingdoors]

Before I read the book, that's what I thought was the whole story too because that's how one of the newspapers reported that extract but actually the book describes a longer process of multiple requests for the tiara (over several weeks) after the initial attempt failed.

But how long exactly was “several weeks”?
For all we know it may been two or three weeks at most.

Is it possible the dates they were offering were not workable to Angela, she probably needs to be there.
I personally would have asked at the spot if I can contact Angela assistant the next day to see which dates were most convenient for her.


Also, is memory remembering wrong or did the book says that William only met Meghan for the first time in Jan 2017?

 

[Helen.CH]

Why would aides try to make problems for the wedding? Its their job to make these things run smoothly, and mostly royal big events and weddings are elaborate affairs that DO run smoothly. I did notice at M and H's wedding that the car taking her to church went by very fast, I dont know whether this was deliberate or perhaps they were a few mins late.. but it did mean that people who were watching, would not have had much of a glimpse of her on the way...[/QUOTE


because this is the way people in such closed groups sometimes do. we are all humans and make faults, are even victims of choices we make driven by unconcious decisions. that's a fact and not my personal opinion.

 

[Denville]

I don't think the Queen cares about such daily things herself, there are structures to be used, as the book tells aswell, it only went wrong, if true.

I think the queen very much does care, and wants everything to go well..

 

[Lilyflo]

But how long exactly was “several weeks”?
For all we know it may been two or three weeks at most.

From late March to mid May so possibly 6 weeks.

Is it possible the dates they were offering were not workable to Angela, she probably needs to be there.

She definitely needed to be there. For starters she had the key to the vaults and secondly, (from what I've read about her in the books she's written) there's no way she'd let the tiara be handled without her supervision. Of course they should have asked Angela for suitable dates and it's unclear whether they did this or whether they provided their own dates to fit with the hairdresser and expected Angela to fit around those. (I suspect the latter otherwise it would have run more smoothly).

Also, is memory remembering wrong or did the book says that William only met Meghan for the first time in Jan 2017?

The book says that William met Meghan for the first time in early November 2016 at Kensington Palace but Catherine was in Norfolk with the children.

 

[Lilyflo]

I really din't know or care, but the author decided to blame Kelly alone, I was inky suggesting things were different and H&M did not know better. And things like that do happen in such groups, believe me!

Yes you are right, they do and I'm not suggesting that aides weren't to blame for any other reason than I think that would have been added to the list of grievances in the book:

"A source close to the Prince said nothing could convince Harry that some of the old guard at the Palace simply didn't like Meghan and would stop at nothing to make her life difficult".

That could be true of course and we know that other BRF members have had their share of woes when dealing with Palace officials. Angela Kelly herself has also talked about times when she had to stand up against them (and win!). The fact is that dealing with all these aides might be challenging with all the petty power struggles, favouritism, cliques etc but that's part of life in the BRF.

However, 'making someone's life difficult' could also include those times when the aide is right to say 'no' or refuse to co-operate with an action they disagree with. If Meghan didn't have the answer or action she wanted and that made her life difficult, it doesn't necessarily mean that was the aide's intention. The aide could just be doing their job properly and any difficulty for Meghan could just have been a consequence of not getting her own way.

 

[Helen.CH]

Yes you are right, they do and I'm not suggesting that aides weren't to blame for any other reason than I think that would have been added to the list of grievances in the book:

"A source close to the Prince said nothing could convince Harry that some of the old guard at the Palace simply didn't like Meghan and would stop at nothing to make her life difficult".

That could be true of course and we know that other BRF members have had their share of woes when dealing with Palace officials. Angela Kelly herself has also talked about times when she had to stand up against them (and win!). The fact is that dealing with all these aides might be challenging with all the petty power struggles, favouritism, cliques etc but that's part of life in the BRF.

However, 'making someone's life difficult' could also include those times when the aide is right to say 'no' or refuse to co-operate with an action they disagree with. If Meghan didn't have the answer or action she wanted and that made her life difficult, it doesn't necessarily mean that was the aide's intention. The aide could just be doing their job properly and any difficulty for Meghan could just have been a consequence of not getting her own way.

Thanks, yes, its imaginable the couple was too impatient and if true, there aim of doing things their own special way or simply against all rules will have provoked many if only in the beginning have caused confusion... and the firm is not only about those two which they seem not to understand, these aides had pkenty if reponsibilitites to do the wishes if H&M.
by the way maybe all the other brides did differently, I think a good hairdresser knows how to handle hair and accessories if royal or not. after all I think the whole story is very tiring, if those two really took this as a major issue, heaven help, it' s simply not worth it and shows how spoiled they are.

 

[Fem]

From late March to mid May so possibly 6 weeks.

Oh please, let's not be dramatic here, the wedding was mid May. I'm sure Meghan did the trial more than 3 days before the wedding .



The book clearly states that the whole debacle started in late March. The KP office were requesting the trial and got nothing, so with the wedding "just a few weeks away" Harry contacted HMQ and the trial was organized. This looks to me like 3 weeks, maybe 4.

 

[Lilyflo]

Oh please, let's not be dramatic here, the wedding was mid May. I'm sure Meghan did the trial more than 3 days before the wedding .



The book clearly states that the whole debacle started in late March. The KP office were requesting the trial and got nothing, so with the wedding "just a few weeks away" Harry contacted HMQ and the trial was organized. This looks to me like 3 weeks, maybe 4.

For the length of time, I'm just going by what Omid Scobie is supposed to have said about it in his recent interview:
“Meghan didn’t get to try the tiara on again until a few days before the wedding.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12419...nd-meghan-revealed-their-megxit-plans-online/

 

[Fem]

For the length of time, I'm just going by what Omid Scobie is supposed to have said about it in his recent interview:
“Meghan didn’t get to try the tiara on again until a few days before the wedding.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12419...nd-meghan-revealed-their-megxit-plans-online/

Well then Scobie needs to decide if it was a few weeks or a few days

 

[Lilyflo]

Well then Scobie needs to decide if it was a few weeks or a few days

I don't think he's being inconsistent because he didn't give an actual date for the trial in the book - he just tells us roughly when Harry spoke to HMQ (a few weeks before) and then confirms she had her trial but doesn't say exactly when. It appears he has provided more information about the date she actually had the trial in the interview.

From the book:
"With the wedding just a few weeks away, the lack of tiara hair trial continued to be an issue of contention. Members of staff at Kensington Palace just weren't able to get in touch with Angela to make it happen. People were frustrated - and confused. Why was it so hard to set up a time for Meghan to try the tiara with her hairdresser? In the end, Harry had to speak to his grandmother about the situation. And she got her trial."

From the recent interview (extract copied from The Sun):
“Meghan didn’t get to try the tiara on again until a few days before the wedding.”

 

[poppy7]

Final update on the book.

Paranoia.

Narcissism

Impulsivity

Lack of intelligence and understanding.

Reluctance to take advice.

Lacking an understanding of symbiotic relationship with the media and poking the bear.

Ridiculous lack of understanding of how the family split from family to business by negotiating through their staff. Which leads me to think this was all Meghan's doing because Harry had obviously been so uninterested in it before that he didn't realise half the work his staff did.

Shed loads of famous name dropping.

Cry me a river with your tiniest violin. Good luck to them. Best they are gone.

Good luck to your career to Omid after this vapid, narcissistic book. It will make money though.

A dreadful book where the only sense came from.palace insiders on both sides.

Still great family fun on a staycation. But no gossip, nothing much interesting. Just a Meghan manifesto.

 

[gerry]

I read it. I think they did. They got it all wrong. But at the end of says it is admirable they didn't settle for that life. That depends of you think the life is worth it. That public service isn't worth it. That the Prince's Trust and all the people it has helped hasn't been worth it. Or the Invictus Games. Or thr hospitals they open. Or the Duke of Edinburgh awards. Or or or. Yes they sacrifice parts of themselves to do the job. But what about the public service. Or any public service. Any such career more focussed on others and not done to gain money. And not done to have a voice or gain fame in the royals instance.

And this question is what makes the couple's position of interest: I have great sympathy for the Prince and I am curious to see what he will do to carry on the life of service to which he was born. I believe that the marriage to Meghan was indeed 'a way out' of the BRF and the implicit, unwanted press attention. Choosing a media professional as a wife is, of course, questionable but clearly love is finding a way out of this conundrum and I am interested to see how the contradictions are resolved.

 

[Eskimo]

For the length of time, I'm just going by what Omid Scobie is supposed to have said about it in his recent interview:
“Meghan didn’t get to try the tiara on again until a few days before the wedding.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12419...nd-meghan-revealed-their-megxit-plans-online/

That’s the point Meghan missed. In the BRF things are done on the Queen’s schedule not Meghan’s.

 

[poppy7]

And this question is what makes the couple's position of interest: I have great sympathy for the Prince and I am curious to see what he will do to carry on the life of service to which he was born. I believe that the marriage to Meghan was indeed 'a way out' of the BRF and the implicit, unwanted press attention. Choosing a media professional as a wife is, of course, questionable but clearly love is finding a way out of this conundrum and I am interested to see how the contradictions are resolved.

He won't. He no longer has a life of service.

 

[Betsypaige]

Final update on the book.

Paranoia.

Narcissism

Impulsivity

Lack of intelligence and understanding.

Reluctance to take advice.

Lacking an understanding of symbiotic relationship with the media and poking the bear.

Ridiculous lack of understanding of how the family split from family to business by negotiating through their staff. Which leads me to think this was all Meghan's doing because Harry had obviously been so uninterested in it before that he didn't realise half the work his staff did.

Shed loads of famous name dropping.

Cry me a river with your tiniest violin. Good luck to them. Best they are gone.

Good luck to your career to Omid after this vapid, narcissistic book. It will make money though.

A dreadful book where the only sense came from.palace insiders on both sides.

Still great family fun on a staycation. But no gossip, nothing much interesting. Just a Meghan manifesto.

Meghan isn’t interesting to me, so the book would bore me to tears if I were to read it....except, admittedly, I doubt I’d have gotten very far as I have no tolerance for poor writing, lol.

Thank you for a wonderfully concise, but hilarious, summary!

As to Omid, his career as a hanger-on and insider to the Duke and Duchess of Excess will continue .....but if he thought that the book would send him to new and soaring heights, then he needs to lower his expectations. A lot.

 

[Nice Nofret]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/15/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage


I think this is a good analysis of the situation

 

[Denville]

And this question is what makes the couple's position of interest: I have great sympathy for the Prince and I am curious to see what he will do to carry on the life of service to which he was born. I believe that the marriage to Meghan was indeed 'a way out' of the BRF and the implicit, unwanted press attention. Choosing a media professional as a wife is, of course, questionable but clearly love is finding a way out of this conundrum and I am interested to see how the contradictions are resolved.

How can he carry on a life of service when he has walked out of the life of service? He didn't want to be part of the working BRF, he preferred to leave and move to the US...

 

[Helen.CH]

And this question is what makes the couple's position of interest: I have great sympathy for the Prince and I am curious to see what he will do to carry on the life of service to which he was born. I believe that the marriage to Meghan was indeed 'a way out' of the BRF and the implicit, unwanted press attention. Choosing a media professional as a wife is, of course, questionable but clearly love is finding a way out of this conundrum and I am interested to see how the contradictions are resolved.

well, so far they do not tell or do not know what to do with their lives.
if course not only royals serve in what they are doing and I guess you refer to what the couple repeated over again with wanting to go one, a foundation.....
at the moment not much is seen and though some might think COVID is a burden fir the Sussex couple it's more time to consider and take a deep breath
let's hope next year they come out and if not Covid is still there to be blamed