Finding Freedom: Harry and Meghan and the Making of A Modern Royal Family

[US Royal Watcher]

Although I think that Meghan and Harry cooperated - or signaled their friends that it was okay to cooperate - with this book, their real mistake is that they choose Omid as their messenger. He is not self-aware and has no sense of proportion. It's insane for him to think that attacking Kate as a "housewife" would win sympathy for Meghan - especially after the early reviews and reactions to the book. It's selling but there is no evidence that it is helping Meghan's image. Harry and Meghan can't distance themselves from Omid now because he may expose their cooperation.

 

[Helen.CH]

You all know I’m not such a big Harry fan, (although at one time I was) but think less of him since Meghan...

The husband shirt bothered me for some reason..was she trying to hard...then I thought of the Inskip wedding where I came to think she was setting her course back then. All the lovie touchy feely to me was/is an act. The clincher that really made me question her motives was The Lion King Premier. Harry passed up a Royal Marine Memorial (if I remember right) to go and pitch a job for the Mrs., I believe this was a big loyalty test.

Sitting in the second row with her Prince would never be good enough for Madam. Yes, I think he’s immature and emotionally fragile.. it’s like watching a train wreck and she’s the conductor. I truly never thought he’d leave the RF in the way he did. I think she’s chipped away at him little by little. For me, he’s living out her life now as she wants it. Fame and attention seems the only goal.

Nope, I do not believe she loves him.

Agreed,
there were/are moments I thought everybody must see how fake she is,
if only one looks at her videos. the only question is, how long will she use Harry for her purposes? The time"in" the RF was definitely too short IMO, to make a lifelong living, even if she went to "tell all" there's not enough , unless Harry opened up to her about some real secrets of the Windsors.
I think it's up to how their business develops.
sometimes I doubt she'd have a second child because to her its a burden after divorce, but I guess as soon as they are out of the headlines another pregnancy might be convenient.

 

[Curryong]

Nobody can tell whether one person truly loves another unless they know the couple personally. You can't tell anything from photos, videos etc. It hasn't been that many years since some Royal followers were predicting a divorce between Kate and William based on glances between them on engagements etc.

The Sussexes have been married for over two years, together for four, have a child together, and, much as I'm sure some journalist/Royal 'experts' would have loved to report it, no mainstream media has reported any signs of a marital discord or a separation or divorce. Quite the contrary in fact. They have already said they would like two children.

It's the same with terms like narcissism. Only a qualified psychiatrist would be able to diagnose such a condition, and only then after months of consultations.

 

[Osipi]

Nobody can tell whether one person truly loves another unless they know the couple personally. You can't tell anything from photos, videos etc. It hasn't been that many years since some Royal followers were predicting a divorce between Kate and William based on glances between them on engagements etc.

The Sussexes have been married for over two years, together for four, have a child together, and, much as I'm sure some journalist/Royal 'experts' would have loved to report it, no mainstream media has reported any signs of a marital discord or a separation or divorce. Quite the contrary in fact. They have already said they would like two children.

It's the same with terms like narcissism. Only a qualified psychiatrist would be able to diagnose such a condition, and only then after months of consultations.

If there is one thing that I can say positively about Harry and Meghan it is that from where I'm sitting and all the things I've observed about them as a couple, I've never once doubted that there is genuine love between the two of them. I've seen nothing to the contrary. That's my perspective. I can't state as fact that they're madly in love with each other so much that they never have "I love you but I really, really don't like you too much right now" days or that they never have an argument or even if they've gone to bed angry with each other from time to time (they have plenty of room that Harry doesn't need to crash on a couch). I don't know them personally. I just have an opinion that what I've seen points to two people truly in love with each other. I don't believe its an act on either of their parts.

I could be wrong. Totally wrong and need my eyes examined yet again. We only base our opinions on what we see and what registers with us. I'm a hopeless romantic and believe in true love forever and happily ever after but a realist enough to know that a couple that "seem" to be over the moon with each other and seeing rainbows and unicorns and never, ever have discouraging words also end up divorcing. The Sussexes have their own private relationship and *no* one besides the two of them really can assess the state of their marriage. ?

 

[poppy7]

Nobody can tell whether one person truly loves another unless they know the couple personally. You can't tell anything from photos, videos etc. It hasn't been that many years since some Royal followers were predicting a divorce between Kate and William based on glances between them on engagements etc.

The Sussexes have been married for over two years, together for four, have a child together, and, much as I'm sure some journalist/Royal 'experts' would have loved to report it, no mainstream media has reported any signs of a marital discord or a separation or divorce. Quite the contrary in fact. They have already said they would like two children.

It's the same with terms like narcissism. Only a qualified psychiatrist would be able to diagnose such a condition, and only then after months of consultations.

That isn't true. Narcissistic personality disorder yes but someone who is just narcissistic, no. Or else everyone who is a narcissist is suffering from a disorder. Which they are not. We all recognise narcissist traits.

 

[Curryong]

I'd be hesitant to ascribe narcissistic tendencies to anyone I didn't know personally, to a person who is mostly known through media reports. It's too easy IMO to jump quickly to the wrong conclusions about their personality. IMO those sort of labels are thrown around too often onto people in the public eye.

 

[Jacknch]

Let's move on please - we can discuss Harry & Meghan on a general level in their General News thread and perhaps avoid the psychoanalysis too.

Discussion about Diana and her relationship with her sons and vice-versa may take place in the Relationships between Members of the British Royal Family thread. Many thanks.

 

[Helen.CH]

Omid seems to be unable or better willingly does only say something positive about Meghan comes along with criticising Catherine. Royal Central interview he has done it again.
Quite a hypocrisy for someone blaming the press for being unfair to the Sussex couple.
Let's hope the hype stops as soon as the majority if people who are buying such gossip books have bought it which is not that far away I think if the numbers if books being sold are true and not only made up by the author himself.
The tragic is that so many buying though not liking them, but support them and Omid through this.
But as we can see here(including myself) COVID gives us less royal events (or other) to focus on and some more time to post and comment if its here or elsewhere.
Did I miss the second author or does she not give interviews aso like Omid?

 

[Fem]

Based on how people on TRF seem to have shifted, I'd say there are three catalysts so far:
1. Their interview/documentary in Southern Africa that concentrated on how hard their lives were instead of their causes - whose people's lives were far more difficult.
2. Their exit - especially the way they handled it.
3. This book that is supposed to portray them positively - but the most positive spin makes things worse instead of better...

I'd add to it the Lion King premiere, I think. This was the first time when I actually thought that something wrong is going on. Harry, of all people, missining a memorial service for killed Royal Marines to attend a movie premiere and mingle with celebrities.

It's quite interesting that while the book "explains" Harry pitching his wife to Bob Iger - apparently, it was a joke ? - they don't even mention the memorial service and how the decision happened there. I don't mind them going to the premiere at all, we all know royals do that, but maybe they could've found a way to make it work and go separately to both.

But hey, at least we got to read how sad Harry is about losing his military titles. The (former) Captain General of the Royal Marines, who chose to go to a movie premiere instead of a memorial service. Yeah. So sad.

 

[Denville]

I'd add to it the Lion King premiere, I think. This was the first time when I actually thought that something wrong is going on. Harry, of all people, missining a memorial service for killed Royal Marines to attend a movie premiere and mingle with celebrities.

It's quite interesting that while the book "explains" Harry pitching his wife to Bob Iger - apparently, it was a joke ? - they don't even mention the memorial service and how the decision happened there. I don't mind them going to the premiere at all, we all know royals do that, but maybe they could've found a way to make it work and go separately to both.

Bd.

while I was never convinced that Megha was really suitable to be a Working Royal duchess, I think that the real sign of their "moving out" of royal life was when they started with the fuss about showing Archie. It seems to me now with hindsight that they were planning an escape then if not sooner...But at the time, I felt it was a clear sign that things were not going well, and that they were in effect acting like celebrities rather than royals.. and that they seemed to be willfully determined to annoy the press.. which was stupid.. The press were already on bad terms with them and their behaviour then just alienated them still more.

 

[tommy100]

As this related to Omid and H&M I'll post it here, he has said Harry talked to his BP team about changing the way they worked with the press and was told "if you want to do that you can pay for your own engagement"

Sorry but I really don't believe that. I can see someone saying that official duties have to be covered using the royal rota system but can't see someone saying "go and pay for your own" in a dismissive way. The more Omid speaks, if he tells the truth, teh more H&M look so thinned skinned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...ingham-Palace-restructuring-press-summer.html

Speaking to The Cut, he revealed: 'In the summer of 2019, Harry actually had a conversation amongst his team and his senior aides within Buckingham Palace about restructuring that press system and making him and Meghan more accessible to a wider, more diverse media landscape.

'And the answer was well, "If you want to do that, you can pay for your own engagements".

'And so that was the first seed of, "Well, maybe we will break away, maybe we will do our own thing."'

 

[Helen.CH]

As this related to Omid and H&M I'll post it here, he has said Harry talked to his BP team about changing the way they worked with the press and was told "if you want to do that you can pay for your own engagement"

Sorry but I really don't believe that. I can see someone saying that official duties have to be covered using the royal rota system but can't see someone saying "go and pay for your own" in a dismissive way. The more Omid speaks, if he tells the truth, teh more H&M look so thinned skinned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...ingham-Palace-restructuring-press-summer.html

Speaking to The Cut, he revealed: 'In the summer of 2019, Harry actually had a conversation amongst his team and his senior aides within Buckingham Palace about restructuring that press system and making him and Meghan more accessible to a wider, more diverse media landscape.

'And the answer was well, "If you want to do that, you can pay for your own engagements".

'And so that was the first seed of, "Well, maybe we will break away, maybe we will do our own thing."'

If true, its interesting. So the prince who suffers from a media trauma asked for more media to be into the game? Funny. I thought he wanted less in.
A wider, more diverse media, guess those sort of paps who shoot celebs the us style, guess whose idea that was
I agree, the more he writes, talks or tweets the worse it looks for the couple.

 

[Eskimo]

while I was never convinced that Megha was really suitable to be a Working Royal duchess, I think that the real sign of their "moving out" of royal life was when they started with the fuss about showing Archie. It seems to me now with hindsight that they were planning an escape then if not sooner...But at the time, I felt it was a clear sign that things were not going well, and that they were in effect acting like celebrities rather than royals.. and that they seemed to be willfully determined to annoy the press.. which was stupid.. The press were already on bad terms with them and their behaviour then just alienated them still more.

IMO, [-]they[/-] she wanted to be paid by US tabloids for the first pictures of Archie like most celebrities do. That is why all the secrecy around the birth etc. They wanted to be able to control the UK press so that their photos and related information would fetch a much higher price in the US. The "men in grey" put a kibosh to that.

If true, its interesting. So the prince who suffers from a media trauma asked for more media to be into the game? Funny. I thought he wanted less in.
A wider, more diverse media, guess those sort of paps who shoot celebs the us style, guess whose idea that was
I agree, the more he writes, talks or tweets the worse it looks for the couple.

The "media trauma" is for media that does not fawn over them only.

It seems to be that they wanted to include US media into their coverage. I wonder why a former actress who was committed to her role in the BRF care about ensuring she was covered by non-UK media?

 

[Heavs]

Haven't there been other articles saying they wanted to use more US publications as well as British? And complaints that announcements were timed to be convenient for the US? That would fit. And wouldn't please the BP communications staff because why do they need to court the US press when they're carrying out royal duties in the UK, tours of the commonwealth and tours on behalf of the FCO to secure British interests? But would fit with their nascent plans to make money in the US as well as do the pick n mix working royal jobs they chose. It's one thing for actors/musicians or business people to decide there's more money across the pond, it's another if senior royals in the BRF have care more about the US "market" than the British one.

Non traditional media would include SM and things like Zoom, which were already used by the BRF before and even more so now so I don't see why it would be so controversial.

 

[fabaunty]

I was concerned about their wish for a more diverse media pool from the moment that I read that Gayle King was present for a first interview after Archie's birth .

 

[Helen.CH]

Haven't there been other articles saying they wanted to use more US publications as well as British? And complaints that announcements were timed to be convenient for the US? That would fit. And wouldn't please the BP communications staff because why do they need to court the US press when they're carrying out royal duties in the UK, tours of the commonwealth and tours on behalf of the FCO to secure British interests? But would fit with their nascent plans to make money in the US as well as do the pick n mix working royal jobs they chose. It's one thing for actors/musicians or business people to decide there's more money across the pond, it's another if senior royals in the BRF have care more about the US "market" than the British one.

Non traditional media would include SM and things like Zoom, which were already used by the BRF before and even more so now so I don't see why it would be so controversial.

I don't know,
but if I wonder if the court did then not realise their real interests at a very early stage, but maybe the court did. really weird to include the us press, even if she had been of any importance then in the us, her work&future was then meant to be the UK.
seems as if she thought she could be he " queen of usa" somehow.
I mean some to feel attached to some royal married in because of his/hef origin, like Sonja and Heidelberg or Maxima and argentina, but then it's the people and nit the royal who supports it.
wait& see how crazy this gets now, I mean they had Reagan as president, Kayne West trying, why no a runaway insane ex-actress

 

[Denville]

IMO, [-]they[/-] she wanted to be paid by US tabloids for the first pictures of Archie like most celebrities do. That is why all the secrecy around the birth etc. They wanted to be able to control the UK press so that their photos and related information would fetch a much higher price in the US. The "men in grey" put a kibosh to that.

I generally would agree with you, but I can't honestly beleve this. Meghan [...] surely she realizes that asking to be paid for pictures of the baby is a no no? Fergie did an interview for Hello Mag when her children were babies and was paid for it, but there was such a fuss, that I'm sure it was clear to Harry that he and Meg could not do things like this?
I think they were doing a celeb thing in that they wanted to say to the Press that they weren't going to go the traditionally route of showing off the baby for a few mins when coming out of hospital.. I think they hoped the public would support them on this and they could show him off when they wanted to, on social media.. but it misfired. The public didn't mind really, but the press got more annoyed and hostile..

As this related to Omid and H&M I'll post it here, he has said Harry talked to his BP team about changing the way they worked with the press and was told "if you want to do that you can pay for your own engagement"

Sorry but I really don't believe that. I can see someone saying that official duties have to be covered using the royal rota system but can't see someone saying "go and pay for your own" in a dismissive way. The more Omid speaks, if he tells the truth, teh more H&M look so thinned skinned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...ingham-Palace-restructuring-press-summer.html

Speaking to The Cut, he revealed: 'In the summer of 2019, Harry actually had a conversation amongst his team and his senior aides within Buckingham Palace about restructuring that press system and making him and Meghan more accessible to a wider, more diverse media landscape.

'And the answer was well, "If you want to do that, you can pay for your own engagements".

'And so that was the first seed of, "Well, maybe we will break away, maybe we will do our own thing."'

I find it hard to believe too, but if He DID say "we want to make ourselves more accessible, in some way, and control who writes about us" perhaps exasperated aides DID say "If you want to do that sir, you'll have to set up your own private system and pay your own expenses"...
If Meghan was hoping to hand out her information to the American market and wanted to "keep up with her fans in the US", it looks odd. And while no royal likes the Press, they don't usually seem to be saying as H and Meg were, "we don't want any reporters around us who are not on our side, we want to give our stories to friendly sympathetic media outlets"
Its JUST about possible that Harry annoyed his staff a lot, esp. if he was putting forward all this stuff about controlling his Press coverage.. and letting the American media know about things more than the British media..... And they said something snappish because they dont feel the need to show him the formal respect that staff would show to other royals like the queen..?

 

[Muhler]

IMO there is no way an aide would have used that phrase.

I does however sounds like a recount, probably from Harry himself, to Omid. Basically summing up both Harry's frustrations and how he perceived "the refusal" of the staff to implement his wishes.

So nothing new there. Merely a confirmation of the impression I already have of Harry.
Harry had and has a different view of his and Meghan's role and options, regardless of what the staff advised.
And he had and has problems accepting a no.

The same with the now infamous quote regarding QEII about her sucking it up.
It sounds to me like a recount from Harry, rather than a precise quote.
Because despite Harry's flaws I doubt very much he would have been this rude to his grandmother.
Princess Anne and Prince Phillip would no doubt come over and spank his bottom within the hour, if Harry had said something like that! I can almost see it. ?
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81GbUR0KxjL.jpg

 

[Denville]

IMO there is no way an aide would have used that phrase.

I does however sounds like a recount, probably from Harry himself, to Omid. Basically summing up both Harry's frustrations and how he perceived "the refusal" of the staff to implement his wishes.


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81GbUR0KxjL.jpg

They might not have used that particular phrase but I think it IS possible, if Harry (or H and Meg) were being very wilful and exasperating that an aide might have said to him that if he persisted in that mindset, he would no longer be working within the parameters of the RF's way of working... and would in effect need to set himself up as separate from the RF.. And that's what happened, isn't it? Harry and Meg have walked out and are doing their "own" version of royal duties, and either they're paying their own expenses or Charles is helping them privately.. They are no longer getting payments from the Sovereign Grant.

 

[Eskimo]

The ever helpful Daily Mail managed to tally the costs of all the freebies mentioned in Finding Freedom:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-couple-received-jets-luxury-hotel-stays.html

 

[duchessrachel]

I generally would agree with you, but I can't honestly beleve this. Meghan isn't that bright but surely she realizes that asking to be paid for pictures of the baby is a no no? Fergie did an interview for Hello Mag when her children were babies and was paid for it, but there was such a fuss, that I'm sure it was clear to Harry that he and Meg could not do things like this?
I think they were doing a celeb thing in that they wanted to say to the Press that they weren't going to go the traditionally route of showing off the baby for a few mins when coming out of hospital.. I think they hoped the public would support them on this and they could show him off when they wanted to, on social media.. but it misfired. The public didn't mind really, but the press got more annoyed and hostile..

I remember when Peter and Autumn Phillips sold their wedding photos to Hello. From what I read William was incensed because there were pictures of Kate at the private event, and the Queen was shocked. I can't remember who said this, but one of the royals was reported to have said, "Do they need money that badly?!"

 

[tommy100]

I honestly think H&M maybe though they could be like Zara and Peter in the sense Zara was able to have pictures of her children in magazines and Peter did have his wedding in Hello (though apparently royal aides said never again after that).

I don't think they saw the difference between them and Zara and Peter, ZAra even more so as she is a successful sportswoman in her own right.

 

[QueenMathilde]

The ever helpful Daily Mail managed to tally the costs of all the freebies mentioned in Finding Freedom:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-couple-received-jets-luxury-hotel-stays.html

I don't like them but to be fair celebrities get freebies all the time. It's ridiculous. And they are celebrities.

 

[Curryong]

Wellknown senior royals in all European royal families get special deals on holiday homes, yachting holidays, hotels and all sorts of goods and services all the time, and some of the examples in the DM articles are guesses about whether some were paid for or not as well.

 

[Osipi]

Wellknown senior royals in all European royal families get special deals on holiday homes, yachting holidays, hotels and all sorts of goods and services all the time, and some of the examples in the DM articles are guesses about whether some were paid for or not as well.

Its been something that's been around for ages. A place can become "more attractive" to staying there by actually having a plaque in a room that states "George Washington slept here" or a historic marker outside of the establishment. It has drawing power. The same with The Queen of Norway staying at an establishment or The Prince of Wales preferring to order his cheese from a certain place. To cater to these kind of "advertisements", an establishment may go out of their way to accomondate, comp and cater to those that will add to their own benefits. Nothing wrong with that.

If I was selling my house today on the market, having it listed that that Sussexes spent a week here in *this* home would draw more attention than just the average, everyday, neighborwoods listing of cabins in the woods on a mountain. Bet mine would sell faster because it would reach a greater audience.

Disclaimer: Harry and Meghan did not spend any time with us at our home. There wouldn't have been room for all of Archie's baby stuff he needed.

 

[Denville]

I remember when Peter and Autumn Phillips sold their wedding photos to Hello. From what I read William was incensed because there were pictures of Kate at the private event, and the Queen was shocked. I can't remember who said this, but one of the royals was reported to have said, "Do they need money that badly?!"

They were not in the same position. Harry and Meghan were full time working royals who were receiving money from the Sovereign Grant. Autumn and Peter were not.. And Autumn's family is not well off..
I havent heard of the queen being shocked...She might not like it but if Autumn's family could not afford to pay for a wedding, the RF Could have helped out.

 

[poppy7]

They were not in the same position. Harry and Meghan were full time working royals who were receiving money from the Sovereign Grant. Autumn and Peter were not.. And Autumn's family is not well off..
I havent heard of the queen being shocked...She might not like it but if Autumn's family could not afford to pay for a wedding, the RF Could have helped out.

That was all rubbish. Of course they were fine with the photos being sold. It was practically set up as an event to introduce Kate into the royal family. And William wasnt there so not to overshadow the wedding pair. It was a PR savvy move there which benefited everyone.

 

[Denville]

That was all rubbish. Of course they were fine with the photos being sold. It was practically set up as an event to introduce Kate into the royal family. And William wasnt there so not to overshadow the wedding pair. It was a PR savvy move there which benefited everyone.

I dont think it was a good move by Peter P,
I think the RF could quite well have paid for the wedding so that he didn't have to sell the photos...
However, Peter Phillips was not a working royal and as such, he could engage in a business deal to sell his wedding photographs... He wasn't in the same position as the Sussexes

 

[poppy7]

I dont think it was a good move by Peter P,
I think the RF could quite well have paid for the wedding so that he didn't have to sell the photos...
However, Peter Phillips was not a working royal and as such, he could engage in a business deal to sell his wedding photographs... He wasn't in the same position as the Sussexes

They didn't have a problem with it. It's always surprised me people thought they did. He never would have done it if they did.

 

[Denville]

They didn't have a problem with it. It's always surprised me people thought they did. He never would have done it if they did.

I cant imagine the queen was very happy with it, but I doubt if she was unhappy enough to pay up. It wasn't the same as Fergie selling pictures of herself bathing her babies..